92irish wrote:So, does that mean I get to keep my CDs with the good rates or is the FDIC going to cash me out. This is my first CD from a bank that went under.
fishndoc wrote:Darn, another one bites the dust.
This is two Friday's in a row that I have had banks closed where I owned high interest paying CDs.![]()
dmcmahon, the FDIC process worked real smoothly for me last week - Broadway Bank shut down on Friday, and on Tuesday, the principal was added to my Prime MM account.
I understand your concern with having bought the CD at another broker, but the good news is that the FDIC should be really good at this by now, so probably not a new problem for them to sort out.
Do let us know how this works out for you. I also have some older CDs bought back when I was at Merril Lynch - makes me consider selling them on the secondary market if it turns out to be a hassle for you.
For CDs I stick with directly-opened accounts now. Yes, it's a hassle.
TOM1964 wrote:My son's trust had a large 2-year CD there, opened just 6 weeks ago.
I guess trust-registered accounts can be a pain to redeem through the FDIC? Or is that just directly-opened CD's? Ours was in a Vanguard Brokerage account, so I guess that's "fiduciary?" Will the trustee (not me, I'm a "grantor") have to fill out some special forms and wait?
I do my homework on my at-risk investments, but am I expected to evaluate banks before I open a CD? I'd have thought Vanguard might help us not step on a land mine with something that obvious, if the bank was in fact "shakey" as others have said.
Cheers, Tom
TOM1964 wrote:My son's trust had a large 2-year CD there, opened just 6 weeks ago.
I guess trust-registered accounts can be a pain to redeem through the FDIC? Or is that just directly-opened CD's? Ours was in a Vanguard Brokerage account, so I guess that's "fiduciary?" Will the trustee (not me, I'm a "grantor") have to fill out some special forms and wait?
I do my homework on my at-risk investments, but am I expected to evaluate banks before I open a CD? I'd have thought Vanguard might help us not step on a land mine with something that obvious, if the bank was in fact "shakey" as others have said.
Cheers, Tom
We recognize that the insurance of a brokered deposit can be somewhat complicated. For this reason, as an example, we have prepared the following case involving “Apple Brokerage.” Please refer to [ur]http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/brokers/4exhibit1.html[/url] (Exhibit 1) located at the end of this section, which represents a brokered deposit account ownership “tree.” The tree reflects that Apple Brokerage deposited $5,000,000 with a failed insured depository institution. The FDIC notifies Apple Brokerage that the institution has failed and they have funds on deposit for which they are acting in an agency capacity. The failed institution’s records do not reflect the level of ownership represented in the tree. Thus, sub-tier notification must originate with the first-tier broker. The first order of business for Apple Brokerage is to notify the sub-tier brokers of the closing, to cease all trading activity on the account and restore the account relationships to those in effect on the closing date. In our example, Apple Brokerage would notify Banana Brokerage and the four investors of the closing and request specific documentation from them to prove ownership of their funds. Banana Brokerage would in turn notify Coconut Brokers, Inc., Kiwi Brokers and the investor. Coconut Brokers would have to notify the Newport Family Trust and Mango Financial who in turn would notify its customers – the nine investors. Kiwi Brokers would notify its investor and Fourth National Bank who would notify its customers – the four investors.
dmcmahon wrote:dm100, you should get your money, ultimately. My situation is more like the one described in this lovely gem:
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/brokers/4documentationreq.htmlWe recognize that the insurance of a brokered deposit can be somewhat complicated. For this reason, as an example, we have prepared the following case involving “Apple Brokerage.” Please refer to [ur]http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/brokers/4exhibit1.html[/url] (Exhibit 1) located at the end of this section, which represents a brokered deposit account ownership “tree.” The tree reflects that Apple Brokerage deposited $5,000,000 with a failed insured depository institution. The FDIC notifies Apple Brokerage that the institution has failed and they have funds on deposit for which they are acting in an agency capacity. The failed institution’s records do not reflect the level of ownership represented in the tree. Thus, sub-tier notification must originate with the first-tier broker. The first order of business for Apple Brokerage is to notify the sub-tier brokers of the closing, to cease all trading activity on the account and restore the account relationships to those in effect on the closing date. In our example, Apple Brokerage would notify Banana Brokerage and the four investors of the closing and request specific documentation from them to prove ownership of their funds. Banana Brokerage would in turn notify Coconut Brokers, Inc., Kiwi Brokers and the investor. Coconut Brokers would have to notify the Newport Family Trust and Mango Financial who in turn would notify its customers – the nine investors. Kiwi Brokers would notify its investor and Fourth National Bank who would notify its customers – the four investors.
It's enough to drive you bananas!
dm200 wrote:At the time of the failure of Indymac, we had the then-limit of $100,000. it took 3 weeks, but we got the full amount and accrued interest to date of failure (but nothing between failure and when we got the money).
Puakinekine wrote:This is not a criticism but a question. Is all this aggravation in a taxable account worth the 1 or 2% extra yield over a bond fund or a CD from a more stable bank?
Puakinekine wrote:This is not a criticism but a question. Is all this aggravation in a taxable account worth the 1 or 2% extra yield over a bond fund or a CD from a more stable bank?
vst wrote:Brokerage CDs require lots of record keeping and really good brokers in order for the FDIC pass through insurance to pay out correctly and efficiently. If someone screwed up the titling on the CD, then quite frankly, you are out of luck. So says the FDIC who looks very closely at how the CD is/was titled at the time of failure.
This is called "Custodial risk" which essentially affects brokered deposits which are held in street name.
The average investor doesn't have a clue as to how complex a brokered cd really is.
dmcmahon wrote:vst wrote:Brokerage CDs require lots of record keeping and really good brokers in order for the FDIC pass through insurance to pay out correctly and efficiently. If someone screwed up the titling on the CD, then quite frankly, you are out of luck. So says the FDIC who looks very closely at how the CD is/was titled at the time of failure.
This is called "Custodial risk" which essentially affects brokered deposits which are held in street name.
The average investor doesn't have a clue as to how complex a brokered cd really is.
Well, if "someone" screwed up the titling of my CD then "someone" can expect a lawsuit. The product was sold as FDIC insured by Smith Barney. I asked specifically that the titling be checked carefully after the move to Schwab. It's been listed as FDIC insured in all my statements. So, it damned well better be insured. For $90k you bet I'm getting a lawyer if it comes to it.
vst wrote:Not to create unnecessary fear, but here's a cautionary tale from the state of MN which details how one govt. entity lost 2 million due to "custodial risk".
http://www.auditor.state.mn.us/other/columns/SafekeepingCountyInvestments_0409.pdf
When Rate Search went out of business, the entity discovered that a large number of their CDs held by Rate Search could not be found.
dmcmahon wrote:vst wrote:Brokerage CDs require lots of record keeping and really good brokers in order for the FDIC pass through insurance to pay out correctly and efficiently. If someone screwed up the titling on the CD, then quite frankly, you are out of luck. So says the FDIC who looks very closely at how the CD is/was titled at the time of failure.
This is called "Custodial risk" which essentially affects brokered deposits which are held in street name.
The average investor doesn't have a clue as to how complex a brokered cd really is.
Well, if "someone" screwed up the titling of my CD then "someone" can expect a lawsuit. The product was sold as FDIC insured by Smith Barney. I asked specifically that the titling be checked carefully after the move to Schwab. It's been listed as FDIC insured in all my statements. So, it damned well better be insured. For $90k you bet I'm getting a lawyer if it comes to it.
fishndoc wrote:From previous experience with Schwab customer service, I bet you will be OK. (much better than Vanguard). Also, you have the option of going to one of their local offices to meet with a rep in person, and I find this always helps with a difficult problem.
adrift wrote:http://www.marketwatch.com/story/popular-inc-assumes-deposits-acquires-assets-of-westernbank-puerto-rico-from-federal-deposit-insurance-corporation-2010-04-30?reflink=MW_news_stmp
All deposit accounts, excluding certain brokered deposits, have been transferred to Banco Popular
Big Al wrote:Information about continued interest rate on existing CDs can be found here :
http://www.popular.com/westernbank/faq-en.html#intRate
If the above starts you at the beginning, scroll down to section, "VII Interest Rates, Charges and FDIC Coverage"
Good luck, Al
The CUSIP number you listed below is one that was excluded from the
transfer (to the acquirer) and will be paid out by FDIC to DTC at 100%
of the closing principal and interest (through 4/30), this week.
There is no need for your broker to make a claim on your behalf, because
this was an ALL deposit transfer and insurance determinations are not
required on this closing.
WESTERNBANK P R
4.65XXX
**IN RECEIVERSHIP** EFF: 04/30/10
92irish wrote:For anyone who is interested, one week down and no money from the FDIC.
Vanguard account still shows the CDs in my account, but they did mark the values down to par yesterday (they had been listed with a premium prior to the bank failure).
I thought it would have only taken a couple days. Not worried - just waiting.
dm200 wrote:Today, Vanguard showed the Eurobank CDs as redeemed into the linked MM fund, and the RG Premier redeemed but the transfer of the money "pending".
I expect to see Westernbank CDs redeemed into the MM fund any day.
As a comparison, Indymac took about 3 weeks several years ago. Indymac was in California.
vst wrote:dm200 wrote:Today, Vanguard showed the Eurobank CDs as redeemed into the linked MM fund, and the RG Premier redeemed but the transfer of the money "pending".
I expect to see Westernbank CDs redeemed into the MM fund any day.
As a comparison, Indymac took about 3 weeks several years ago. Indymac was in California.
That may have had something to do with Indymac being taken over the the FDIC vs these other banks which had most of their deposits transferred.
Which leads me to ask, what would have happened if the bank(s) had been taken over by the FDIC? Would the broker(s) have to provide more documentation to the FDIC to have the funds released? Is that when the titles to the CDs have to be examined? If so, then how long would all of this taken?
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