Bogleheads

[mpt follower]

As one that has been part of the M* forum and then the Boglehead forum for many years, I feel that the quality of the forum discussions, specially the topics being addressed has decreased. All I know I have learned here, so I am very appreciative, but nowadays very seldom something worthwhile comes along. Is it only me?
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Erwin

[wannabe_CPA]

It's the nature of discussion forums, imho. You just get saturated after a while.

Me, I have a whole archive to pour through. Years worth of stuff. You've already lived it all, it's all old news to you.

Plus considering that there's not a lot of investing hucksterism on this board, is it really going to change or provide radically new topics so frequently? Solid principles do change slowly with time but not quickly.

[bob90245]

"Investing should be more like watching paint dry or watching grass grow. If you want excitement, take $800 and go to Las Vegas."
-- Paul Samuelson
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Ignore the market noise. Keep to your rebalancing schedule whether that is semi-annual, annual or trigger bands.

[Snowjob]

Yep. I've been reading this since 07 and I have the same feeling you do. Now if we could bring back the volitility from 08->09 then the discussions would be exciting again =)

[MBMiner]

Interesting to see you mention this, which is a thought I've had for the past year or two. I've been on this forum since '99 and I remember the in depth discussions taking place then. The forum was not so well known at that time but, with recent publicity, many novice investors have been attracted who tend to pose very elementary questions. Possibly it is the natural evolution of a forum such as this. Sadly, it seems to be the case here.
Bruce

[DRiP Guy]

I sometimes think that it is getting to be 'more of same' myself sometimes, but as pointed out, it seems a natural outgrowth of both internet forum life cycles in general, and our chosen investing strategy, in particular.

That said, when I personally post these days it is indeed mostly not because I think I am the best wag on a given topic, but to add a perspective, or a thought. In other words, we all need to contribute, if we think we have something worthwhile to add. But yes, as we old timers see more and more posts, the probability of feeling that energized 'fresh to the forum' feeling is not likely to be felt any longer.

I suggest that like the food pyramid, we personally should get a healthy diet of different inputs - so visit different forums, too! On some 'wild west' forums, not only are they more 'exciting' due to allowing flame wars and such, but the forums that allow politics and such can also be more 'juicy' and topical.

I have thought of all of that. Yet, in the long run, it still seems to me that keeping to the existing forum policies and initial reason for being is the best way to keep both the high quality,and the high esteem the forum has come to be held in by others, including the main stream media. If the mission here is to educate and help others to see the wisdom of how Bogle's approach can inform their own investment decisions, then we should stay true to that vision, and not give in to the urge to become more 'entertaining' just for the sake of it.

I imagine an investor new to the proposition would do well just having the existing material available for research; so again, we have fewer questions to answer real-time than the old days.

[sschullo]

Yes you are right! Had not had a active/passive or EMH/Non EMH debate in over a week!
BTW MPT, this is an exiting topic you brought up.
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Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life.
What is a Pub Crawl Dry Run? An oxymoron.

[JasonP]

As far as investing forums go, I don't think it can be beat though. Go check in over at Fool for excitement, just don't lose all of your money. I enjoy the "dry" excitement, like this thread.

[wshang]

What we need is an unmoderated part of BH's to get the juices flowing! FIRE has one. Most of the interesting threads get shutdown just when it gets interesting.

[Indices]

[JasonR]

Very interesting thread.

Certainly, more off-topic posts are tolerated now than a few years ago. That seems to have turned off many of the old-timers.

Kinda like Toyota. Too big, too fast. Quality has suffered.

[grok87]

mpt follower and others,
I kindof see where you are coming from. The reality is the forum will be what we all make of it. So start putting some interesting content out there! "Build it and they will come"

THis thread has inspired me to make a couple of posts. Hope you enjoy them!

Why and how to tilt to small and value stocks
http://www.bogleheads.org/foru....highlight=


John BOgle: Markets in Crisis
http://www.bogleheads.org/foru....highlight=

also I thought this thread inspired a good discussion, in case you missed it.

Got Employee Stock Options? Grok's rule for when to exercise
http://www.bogleheads.org/foru....highlight=

cheers,
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grok, CFA

[wbond]

A near-sighted romanticism serves neither you nor your portfolio.

I found, for example, the recent thread on hot water heaters nonpareil – and I’m not talking about the chocolates. When one compares it with the lackluster discussion last year on mattresses (“should I get the ‘pillow-top’?”) it becomes obvious how far things have actually advanced.

[wbond]

[Wagnerjb]

[grok87]

[GammaPoint]

I've been here for just a little over a half a year, so I haven't noticed any decline in the quality of the topics. But I'm still learning a lot which might also make more of the topics of interest to me.

[epilnk]

Well, the bottom line is that the boglehead way of investing isn't supposed to be interesting. Index, set your asset allocation, keep costs down, maximize tax efficiency - you start to run out of material pretty fast if you do it right. Broaden the topic and you get to the mechanics of bond ladders, theories about DCA, debates on the efficient frontier, discussions about interest rate predictions, discussions on whether you should discuss interest rate predictions, etc. There's plenty of material, but unless you're a serious MPT geek that stuff gets repetitive too.

There was a split in the forum many years back, after a series of flame wars got a bunch of people upset. Many people wanted more control, others wanted more lively discussion. More control won. I'm sure a lot of people got bored and wandered away, so the bias toward more control is self reinforcing. Me, I left for a few years, and now I'm in and out for months at a time. Which probably just means I have too much time on my hands. Often when I scan the list and see a promising topic it already has a little lock icon beside it, and half the time I can't even figure out why, but the majority prefers to keep things firmly tamped down. I don't think this is nearly the forum it was 10 years ago, but it's still the go-to spot for financial advice. Entertainment can be found elsewhere, it's a big web.

Linda

[JasonP]

One of my favorite things about the site is that political opinions aren't allowed. Everybody has heard the opinions of both sides plenty. There is no need cluttering it up and annoying people some more with it here.

[tetractys]

I really enjoyed the fiery debates, like those between Larry Swedroe and Rick Ferry on commodities and high yield bonds. But that can go only so far until new controversial data comes to the fore. This is evolution though, and detraction from the forum is really only a perception. For one thing those discussions, and others like them are archived. And for another, and perhaps more importantly, the main function of this forum is it's service orientation, which I think has become better, i.e. much has been standardized on the wiki, a book has been published, and the authorship, fame, and influence of our respected mentors has grown.

This rolling stone won't gather any moss for a while. -- Tet
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"Near panic conditions prevail in financial markets. People want to know what lies ahead. I cannot tell them because I do not know." -- George Soros

[Babakhani]

i am fairly new to the forum, but we have a saying in surgery, "see one, do one, teach one." Practically meaning, you learn how to do the surgery, then you do it until you are proficient at it, then you teach those that are learning.

One of the qualities of investing in passive index funds is that it is boring and straight forward. But I, as a new boglehead, am learning quite a bit.

I appreciate all your teachings by the way.

[MWCA]

You can only discuss the same things over and over so many times. Thats why when new blood comes in. You old timers who know it all dont shout them down. Welcome them They might bring some new ideas.

And as someone else said. Boglehead investing is not that thrilling.
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If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it

[Babakhani]

One other thing. The are a lot of "off topic" discussions. But in my opinion, you should be proud of them. I view the forum as a group of people that I have much in common with. It is a fraternity of a varied group of people brought together by an investing philosophy.

When I have a decision that is difficult, or need an opinion, or in need of advice, I turn to this forum with more trust than anywhere else.

[MekongTrader]

You'll find more excitement, thrill and noise elsewhere and in any other forum. I come here because it's civilized, a gigantic source of information and a great meeting point for people willing to share their knowledge and information.

Boglehead-style investing is supposed to be boring and you can only talk about 'tilting to SV' so many times.

My 2 vietnamese dong.

MT

[mlebuf]

Forums don't get tired. People get tired of forums for numerous reasons and lose interest. If you want entertainment with your investing, turn on Jim Cramer and watch him act like a guy who's depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. However, follow his advice at your own risk.
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Best wishes,
Michael

Invest your time actively and your money passively.

[bob u.]

Over the years, there have been many, many valuable posts contributed by experts and non-experts alike.

But it's true, at least in my view, that BH looks more like craigslist.

In addition, with respect to investing there does come a point where a number of posts resemble the question of how many angels can sit on the head of a pin.

I seem to recall that the original Bogleheads believed in keeping it simple. The trouble is, a lot of folks want to make it complicated.

Bob U.

[Snowjob]

I think the spice could be a new section where active or alternative schemes try to beat the the traditional bogle low cost an index. Think about how many posts Harry Browne, Market Timer's MYR and the "Equity Style Rotation" threads got. Personally Market Timer's thread was the best I've ever read if not purely for entertainment purposes (though in a sideways market it may be a bit... *yawn*)

Anyway I think if people laid out their reasons for their "unorthodox" investment and we could all follow and discuss the merrits that might raise an interest level.

[bearcub]

I learned a lot about investing here and it has saved me a lot of money. I bought an electric lawnmower the other year that someone suggested in the lounge. Very happy with it. Saving for retirement is serious because life is not a dress rehearsal,no do overs. Yeah, TIPS threads can bore me. So I can go to the lounge and read about obscure threads like hand crafted ales or water heaters. Sometimes I enjoy them, sometimes not. I just skip over topics that do not interest me. I have learned more about investing from Bogleheads than I have in 16 years of schooling. Thanks to all.

[Enzo IX]

I miss Mr. Swedroe, he always had alot of good advice to share. There just seems to be a bunch of shouters who have to think their way is the only way and chase the great contributors away.

Disagreeing is fine, thats what makes discussion great just don't cross the line.

[kenschmidt]

What we need is a ONE WEEK MODERATION FREE FUN FEST!!! Anything goes! Who's with me???

Just kidding!

I've been posting for a long time - first on the old Morningstar forum and now here. I think I started in 1998.

What I have found is that the forum gets kinda slow when the markets get kinda slow.

Things were exciting in 1999 because the tech bubble was inflating, all the old tried and true (value investing, bonds) stopped working, and the old diversifiers (EM, International, REIT, etc.) all were lagging. There was LOTS to talk about!

Then the tech bubble burst and there was even more to talk about as all our investments basically cratered thru the end of 2000, thru 9/11 and ending at the bottom in early 2003. Lots of fuel for discussions.

But after that, the market took a slow ride upwards and things got boring. I found myself losing a little interest although I still did post some. But the topics were a little more subtle. So, while in 1999 you'd get the "What's wrong with Windsor II?", "Only Suckers Own Bonds" and "Should I buy Janus 20 or Yahoo stock?" posts, in 2005-6, you get "Should I Buy Short-Term Bonds or Bond Index?" posts.

Then the bottom fell out in 2008-2009 and things got very energized and interesting again. But now that the market has made a recovery, we are back to the doldrums until something exciting happens again. Which always seems to happen in ways least expected.

My opinion at least.

Ken

[DRiP Guy]

[Mel Lindauer]

[Dagwood]

I find myself visiting here less because there are a number of posters who turn most everything into a political debate of sorts. We all have political views, but with these folk everything takes on a biting, sarcastic, quasi-political tone. Personally, I find the OT politicized comments tiresome and so it becomes irritating to hear the same predictable characters beat the same tired old drums.

If the moderators want to make this place politics free, that's a completely fair decision, and theirs to make given they run this place on their on their own dime and efforts, but then there are a number of people here who need to be either told to cut it out or take it somewhere else.

[DrafterMan_MN]

I am not a frequent poster to this board, but I read it everyday. I can appreciate some long time members may be tired of reading redunant posts.

I would just like to thank those long time members that do stick around and share their experience and advice.

Thank you.

[Mel Lindauer]

[Bounca]

What, with favorite types of beer and how much you tip for a hair cut threads, I feel this forum is in its prime.

[Ron]

[VictoriaF]

[dbc47]

[tadamsmar]

I don't think this forum can't help getting stale if you follow it long enough, given it's goals.

It's like watching paint dry, while discussing watching paint dry, while helping others to learn how to watch paint dry.

That's the way retirement investing should be.

[daddydub]

You underestimate the value of this forum. For some it is old news but for those who are only now being awakened, it is a whole new world.

[Dagwood]

[kyuss]

[DRiP Guy]

[DRiP Guy]

[bob90245]

[Opponent Process]

actually we've had the dress shirt discussion about 6-7 times. people take their dress shirts very seriously, nothing to joke about. although my wife might wish that I was more of a metrosexual, I prefer the (west coast) early academic dress code of jeans, t shirt and sandals. however, if the prospects for academia don't pick up a bit, I may be forced to sell out to something more corporate, where I guess at least they pay you to dress nice. although I can't stand the thought of being evaluated by dress more so than ideas, those 6-7 threads may save my ass in such an environment.
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30/30/20/20
US/International/Bonds/TIPS
Average Age=35.5

[conundrum]

We have been reading this forum and the original over on Morningstar for years, although we have only been contributing for a year or so. The forum has evolved over time but the overall quality in my opinion has remained quite high. Now and then I get a bit fatigued as after all the basic boglehead principles are fairly simple. When this happens I just take a bit of time off from the forum. Although the questions from new posters are not usually unique, I think the boglehead community does a great job in giving sound advice and counsel. This forum is certainly not perfect but compares very favorably to anything else out there.

Thanks to all the longtime posters for their continued involvement and advice.

Drum

[Ron]

[mlebuf]