VG will not cancel the order

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VG will not cancel the order

Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:34 am

Since I don't have an account with VG I would like to know if it's true.

A friend of mine has an account with VG and told me the following...

he wanted to do an exchange from one fund to another but entered the wrong amount of shares.

He thought he can just cancel it...nope.
He called VG rep and the answer is still...nope.

I have an account with Fidelity and Schwab and I can not believe this can be true.
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Postby Gekko » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:42 am

yup - once you pull the trigger - it's yours. that's why they warn you before you can pull the trigger.

i like it. this policy protects all of the other shareholders.
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:47 am

Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.

Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?
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Postby Mel Lindauer » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:49 am

FD wrote:Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.

Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?


It's to keep people from "gaming" the system. You put an order in, and then if it looks like the market's going against you, you try to cancel or change it. No thanks. I'm glad that Vanguard operates that way, since it protects all the other shareholders.
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Postby Hondo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:56 am

Thanks, Mel. Good explanation, and now I agree with the policy.
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Postby dbr » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:05 am

Mel Lindauer wrote:
FD wrote:Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.

Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?


It's to keep people from "gaming" the system. You put an order in, and then if it looks like the market's going against you, you try to cancel or change it. No thanks. I'm glad that Vanguard operates that way, since it protects all the other shareholders.


Mel, can you explain how this games the system? My understanding is that the investor wants to cancel the order before it is executed. What harm is there other than more office work at Vanguard's end? Naturally it would make no sense for people to be able to reverse trades after they are executed.

I have had the experience of placing orders at a broker that by mistake were not what I intended. There has never been a problem cancelling pending orders, no harm, no foul.
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Postby Tramper Al » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:05 am

Mel Lindauer wrote:
FD wrote:Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.

Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?


It's to keep people from "gaming" the system. You put an order in, and then if it looks like the market's going against you, you try to cancel or change it. No thanks. I'm glad that Vanguard operates that way, since it protects all the other shareholders.

So, just to be clear, we're not talking about extending some deadline, correct?

I think basically if there is a Monday 3pm (or is it 4pm) deadline for a mutual fund purchase or redemption, the investor obviously could have simply waited until then to place their order. On the other hand, if he placed his order Saturday, Sunday, etc. he can't change it.

In other words, I hardly see it as gaming the system if you have the choice to modify your order during the hours or even days before the order is even due. That's basically the choice you have everywhere else.

Anybody can elect to make all of their mutual fund orders in the few minutes before the order cutoff deadline. Set your watch alarm, excuse yourself from that 3pm meeting, whatever. The ability to change an order, then, only allows one to place the order much earlier, for convenience, without giving up the option to revisit the decision before the deadline. You don't get this convenience at Vanguard, to be sure.

If, as suggested, the object of this cannot-change-order were to prevent anyone from knowing what the market was doing on the day of their mutual fund transaction, then Vanguard should simply change the order cutoff to 9am.
Last edited by Tramper Al on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:12 am

Just to be clear my friend did the exchange after the market close at 5 pm.
He knew he will not have time the next day and it's for the next day of trading.

This means there is no manipulation of anything....IMO, it's a terrible decision by VG.

Every company I know let you change fund orders by the cut time (usually 4 PM)
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Postby indexfundfan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:18 am

I bet if the same Vanguard mutual fund order had been submitted through a third party broker, you would be able to change it before (the next) market close.

I suspect it is "old technology" that one previous poster puts it.
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Postby Gekko » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:19 am

i'm sure there are additional cost and logistical considerations that VG doesn't want to deal with nor burden the other shareholders with. either way i have no problem with it and trust them to make the right decision to do what's best for the majority of shareholders. i'm not going to argue with a .09% Expense Ratio and flawless ethical record in an industry filled with criminals. they know what they're doing.
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Postby eurowizard » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:24 am

I agree this is a TERRIBLE policy by vanguard. They don't settle any mutual fund transaction until the next business 4pm (same day or in a few days).

There's no reason why they couldn't change an order, except that they want to cut costs and not be bothered by adding Customer Service to handle this. It could be done in the online system. In any other brokerage I can change an order before it executes - online without any human interaction needed.

I make so few purchaes and I am very careful with what I do so the policy doesn't bother me much, but the first time I make a mistake I will probably stop doing business with them.
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Postby dbr » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:25 am

It would seem that it is to the benefit of owners of Vanguard funds that Vanguard spend as little as possible to supply services to account holders at Vanguard.

Brokers that supply better services also charge a fee to transact Vanguard funds, which means that as an investor I have the option to buy service when I need it, while Vanguard protects me from paying for free services handed out to others.

Disclaimer: I do not hold accounts at Vanguard.
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Postby indexfundfan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:25 am

Tramper Al wrote:If, as suggested, the object of this cannot-change-order were to prevent anyone from knowing what the market was doing on the day of their mutual fund transaction, then Vanguard should simply change the order cutoff to 9am.

VG did try to prevent people from gaming the system several years back. At that time, index funds orders need to be submitted earlier in the day (think it was 2.30pm ET?)
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Postby tfb » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:31 am

indexfundfan wrote:I suspect it is "old technology" that one previous poster puts it.

That would be my guess too. Nobody bothered to invest in the required software functionality.
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Postby Trifecta » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:31 am

I work for a practice that clears through a Fortune 500 brokerage firm and while normal mutual fund trades (buys and sells) can be cancelled or changed before execution, exchanges cannot. Once you place it, you are stuck with it. Not sure why but this isn't unique to Vanguard, just FYI.
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:33 am

i'm not going to argue with a .09% Expense Ratio and flawless ethical record in an industry filled with criminals. they know what they're doing.


What is that has to do with this?
So Fidelity and Schwab are not ethical?

You can buy cheaper index funds thru Schwab.
You can buy Schwab ETF for free.

You can open an account with https://www.wellsfargo.com/investing/styles/wt/
with at least 25K and get the following.
- Many funds including VG and Fidelity with no cost.
- 100 free transactions a year. This include stocks ETF and funds.
This means you can buy Star or Wellington and they wave the cost as part of 100 free transactions.

The question is....
Is it a policy decision or an old computer system?
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 am

I work for a practice that clears through a Fortune 500 brokerage firm and while normal mutual fund trades (buys and sells) can be cancelled or changed before execution, exchanges cannot. Once you place it, you are stuck with it. Not sure why but this isn't unique to Vanguard, just FYI.

I have an account with Fidelity and Schwab.
Fidelity let you cancel exchange...I just tried it in Schwab and I can cancel it too.

So now the question....
is it only exchange?
What about a simple fund purchase?
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:01 pm

I just called VG and talked with 2 reps.

Once you entered a fund transaction buy or sell or exchange for VG or none VG fund...you can NOT change it.
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Postby Tramper Al » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:06 pm

FD wrote:I just called VG and talked with 2 reps.

Once you entered a fund transaction buy or sell or exchange for VG or none VG fund...you can NOT change it.

Hey, stop that! By talking to phone reps you are clearly driving up costs for existing shareholders. I think they should disconnect the phones to lower expenses. Vanguard can do no wrong.
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Postby blueballoon » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:16 pm

I only wish they would display the date when the order will be executed on the final page of confirmation. One time I started entering the order close to the closing time but I thought I met the 4pm deadline (there is no confirmation) but the order did not go through that day but the next business day. Talking to the service rep revealed that I was late by a few seconds when they received the order. If they had shown the execution date on the last page I would have not confirmed.
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Postby sscritic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:10 pm

blueballoon wrote:I only wish they would display the date when the order will be executed on the final page of confirmation. One time I started entering the order close to the closing time but I thought I met the 4pm deadline (there is no confirmation) but the order did not go through that day but the next business day. Talking to the service rep revealed that I was late by a few seconds when they received the order. If they had shown the execution date on the last page I would have not confirmed.

How does that help? You finish entering all the data. The confirmation page shows the time as 3:59 and the order to be executed today. By the time you click confirm, the time is 4:00:05 and your order is not executed until the next day. You would be late by the few seconds it took you to read the page and click confirm, exactly as you were in the past.
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Postby Tramper Al » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:42 pm

sscritic wrote:
blueballoon wrote:I only wish they would display the date when the order will be executed on the final page of confirmation. One time I started entering the order close to the closing time but I thought I met the 4pm deadline (there is no confirmation) but the order did not go through that day but the next business day. Talking to the service rep revealed that I was late by a few seconds when they received the order. If they had shown the execution date on the last page I would have not confirmed.

By the time you click confirm, the time is 4:00:05 and your order is not executed until the next day. You would be late by the few seconds it took you to read the page and click confirm, exactly as you were in the past.

In that case I guess you'd just cancel it, since you probably weren't trying to place an order for the following day's close, right?
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Postby indexfundfan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:48 pm

Tramper Al wrote:
FD wrote:I just called VG and talked with 2 reps.

Once you entered a fund transaction buy or sell or exchange for VG or none VG fund...you can NOT change it.

Hey, stop that! By talking to phone reps you are clearly driving up costs for existing shareholders. I think they should disconnect the phones to lower expenses. Vanguard can do no wrong.
lol. I like the sarcasm.
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Postby mfen » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:58 pm

I don't know about Fidelity or Schwab but whenever I have put in orders for mutual funds at Etrade they give the same warning that once a mutual fund order is placed it cannot be canceled. This warning was for all mutual funds not just Vanguard funds.
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Postby Doc » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:02 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Tramper Al wrote:
FD wrote:I just called VG and talked with 2 reps.

Once you entered a fund transaction buy or sell or exchange for VG or none VG fund...you can NOT change it.

Hey, stop that! By talking to phone reps you are clearly driving up costs for existing shareholders. I think they should disconnect the phones to lower expenses. Vanguard can do no wrong.
lol. I like the sarcasm.

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Postby ziggy29 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:02 pm

mfen wrote:I don't know about Fidelity or Schwab but whenever I have put in orders for mutual funds at Etrade they give the same warning that once a mutual fund order is placed it cannot be canceled. This warning was for all mutual funds not just Vanguard funds.

Fidelity and Schwab allow cancellations before the market close in most (if not all) cases.
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Postby ddb » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:06 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
FD wrote:Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.

Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?


It's to keep people from "gaming" the system. You put an order in, and then if it looks like the market's going against you, you try to cancel or change it. No thanks. I'm glad that Vanguard operates that way, since it protects all the other shareholders.


I fail to see how canceling an order before it executes constitutes "gaming the system", or how it could possibly be harmful to other shareholders. Many (most?) fund companies and custodians allow order cancellation prior to execution.

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Postby Mel Lindauer » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:10 pm

It seems clear that folks who want to be able to cancel orders should feel free to use those companies that accommodate their desires until/unless Vanguard changes the policy to their liking. Different strokes for different folks.
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Postby Tramper Al » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Doc wrote:
indexfundfan wrote:
Tramper Al wrote:
FD wrote:I just called VG and talked with 2 reps.

Once you entered a fund transaction buy or sell or exchange for VG or none VG fund...you can NOT change it.

Hey, stop that! By talking to phone reps you are clearly driving up costs for existing shareholders. I think they should disconnect the phones to lower expenses. Vanguard can do no wrong.
lol. I like the sarcasm.

Once upon a time we accepted that poorer service was the price of low cost.

Maybe I am off base, but I seriously have to wonder if that expense of adding a "Cancel" box to a "View Pending Order" page might actually cost less than fielding all those many "I want to cancel my order for next Monday, surely that can be done" phone calls. It's not a short conversation, either, as you have through "You are kidding me . . ." and "Fidelity does this with a click of the mouse . . ." and so on. Having a few more happy customers might be a plus too. Of course they would be the most demanding sort.

Mel Lindauer wrote:It seems clear that folks who want to be able to cancel orders should feel free to use those companies that accommodate their desires until/unless Vanguard changes the policy to their liking. Different strokes for different folks.

That's right, those folks can hit the road. They can go game the system someplace else.
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Postby Jack » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:46 pm

Tramper Al wrote:Maybe I am off base, but I seriously have to wonder if that expense of adding a "Cancel" box to a "View Pending Order" page might actually cost less than fielding all those many "I want to cancel my order for next Monday, surely that can be done" phone calls. It's not a short conversation, either, as you have through "You are kidding me . . ." and "Fidelity does this with a click of the mouse . . ." and so on. Having a few more happy customers might be a plus too. Of course they would be the most demanding sort.

I think you're right Al. This is yet another penny wise, pound foolish decision by Vanguard. Another example is the lack of online specific lot identification in Vanguard brokerage. This is the classic trade off between non-recurring engineering costs and recurring costs. It costs a lot of money to hire programmers to design online features but it is mostly a one-time cost to implement the feature. Instead, for each telephone inquiry or fax of lot identification they spend a thousand times what it would cost to handle the feature automatically online.

I invest at Vanguard because of their low fees, not because of their customer service. Compared to other companies Vanguard's service reps are poorly trained and their web interface is sadly antiquated. True, this lowers direct costs, but at some point you have to wonder if their penny pinching is really costing more money than it saves.

It makes an argument for preferring ETFs. You eliminate Vanguard as your service provider and just use Vanguard for what they do best, managing index funds.
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:55 pm

As a programmer analyst specializing in the mutual fund industry
I offer my services for FREE to add the cancellation process.

Here ya go...zero cost.

BTW, the 2 reps were very sure it's not a cost issue or an old legacy system...it's a business decision and the way VG practice.

When I asked why? they could not come up with a good answer.

I know of a few 401K plans that let you enter a fund transaction only up to 2 PM instead of
4 PM....this makes more sense to me instead of no cancellation.
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Postby kenschmidt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:16 pm

Tramper Al wrote:Maybe I am off base, but I seriously have to wonder if that expense of adding a "Cancel" box to a "View Pending Order" page might actually cost less than fielding all those many "I want to cancel my order for next Monday, surely that can be done" phone calls.


Adding the cancel box to the web page is just the beginning. It's all the logic that has to be put in place to handle "clicking" the button that can be complicated. Defining the functions that delete the original transaction. For large companies, this may span several groups (web, mainframe, database) and so resources and priorities must be coordinated. Actually coding the changes needed to implement the new functionality. Thinking of all error conditions and accounting for them. Testing the function to be sure it works correctly and that nothing else was broken in the process. Training of call center associates to understand the new function. Communication of new capabilities to customers. Implementing it without disrupting current transactions or transactions.

There's a lot more to it than just telling a programmer "hey, build a cancel function". This is just the reality of large company systems projects. I wouldn't want my money at a company that wouldn't follow all these steps.

I do agree that a Cancel function would be a nice feature - but, knowing it is not available, you just have to double and triple check before you click "Submit".

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Postby bottlecap » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:20 pm

FD wrote:BTW, the 2 reps were very sure it's not a cost issue or an old legacy system...it's a business decision and the way VG practice.

When I asked why? they could not come up with a good answer.


Its not that surprising that the Vanguard reps have no idea why this is, and they can't be "very sure" it's not a cost issue, because they simply don't know. Why would they?

And neither do we. If I were to guess, I'd say it's probably related to cost and/or reporting requirements that VG made a business decision to avoid. I'm sure it's not because they love to field calls from distraught customers and crush their hopes and dreams....
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:21 pm

Adding the cancel box to the web page is just the beginning.

I know that as somebody who does this for a living for almost 3 decades....this is why I said process.

Let me think....mmmm....I don't know many companies without this.

There's a lot more to it than just telling a programmer "hey, build a cancel function". This is just the reality of large company systems projects. I wouldn't want my money at a company that wouldn't follow all these steps
.
I build functions a lot more complicated that this.
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Postby czeckers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:27 pm

There is a misunderstanding here between fund-to-fund exchanges and orders to buy/sell. If you are putting in an order though the brokerage, whether at VG or elsewhere, then you can change/cancel your order until complete execution. You can even change it after a partial execution. Exchanges are different and are processed instantly... no opportunity to change. I wonder if VG handles a lot of the exchanges internally by reassigning shares between different customers who are doing different exchanges.

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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:35 pm

There is a misunderstanding here between fund-to-fund exchanges and orders to buy/sell.

Not at all...you can NOT do any of these.

BTW, Schwab let you you do buy and sell at the same day.
Fidelity let you do it in taxable account online. You can still do it in IRA...you sell
first and call the rep and he/she will enter the buy for 90% of the sell.

Exchange is always 2 days process...this is why I never do it, since I want to be invested at all times.
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Postby ddb » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:45 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:It seems clear that folks who want to be able to cancel orders should feel free to use those companies that accommodate their desires until/unless Vanguard changes the policy to their liking. Different strokes for different folks.


Are you suggesting that we shouldn't complain about any of Vanguard's policies?

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Postby Prokofiev » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 pm

FD wrote:Not at all...you can NOT do any of these.

Exchange is always 2 days process...this is why I never do it, since I want to be invested at all times.


Not sure what you're thinking here. If you exchange one VG fund for another, the exchange is done at the close of that day's trading. You will be 100% invested at all times. It is not a 2 day process . . .


While I agree that a cancel box for fund exchanges is possible and probably no-big-deal to program, I don't find it a major or even minor problem with VG. If you make a mistake and type incorrectly, the site then gives you a summary page, telling you to check and read carefully before submitting the exchange - and warns you that it can't be undone. So you have to make at least 2 (or 3) mistakes before it becomes an issue. The only other possibility is that you change your mind between your entry and the 4pm EST deadline. Again, if you can't decide what you want to do, wait until 3:45pm.

Maybe it is just VG's IQ test? If you can't type correctly, read correctly, check the summary or just want to change your mind multiple times in a few hours, you pay a small price?

Cheers, -P
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Postby nisiprius » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:50 pm

Proceeding on the assumption that the original poster would like to help his friend minimize the impact of his mistake, I have a suggestion.

I once made a stupid mistake in an order. I don't remember the details, but I traded X for Y and traded more shares than I meant to, say $5,000 more. I wished I could undo out part of the exchange. But because of the frequent trading policy, I was locked out of buying X for 60 days.

But here's the thing. Vanguard has many pairs of funds that are so similar to each other that, for sixty days anyway, they're pretty much going to track each other other. One such pair is Total Stock Market Index and Index Five Hundred. Another is Total Bond Market Index and Intermediate Bond Market Index. So, as soon as I realized my mistake I just exchanged $5,000 worth of Y back for $5,000 worth of the fund that was similar to X.

Now, I believe it to be true that there's a real policy difference between Vanguard and Fidelity in this regard. But it's not as if it were a big secret. Fidelity's page, if I recall correctly, tells you or at least strongly suggests that you can cancel the transaction any time before it is actually executed, and the confirmation page actually has a link or button that says something like "Attempt to cancel this order." And I've used it at least once, and it did.

Vanguard's page says "Once you receive a confirmation number, this transaction cannot be changed or cancelled." What could be clearer than that?

I think many in this forum would agree that Vanguard Brokerage Services are best described as "adequate." I can easily imagine using Fidelity as a general-purpose brokerage even if you didn't hold any shares of any Fidelity mutual fund; I can't imagine anyone using Vanguard Brokerage Services that way.

By the way, one of the best reasons I know for not consolidating everything down to one brokerage is so that you can see similarities and differences in policies, rules, and fees... and so that when they imply that what they do is SOP and that pretty "everyone does it that way," you'll know if they're lying.
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Postby FD » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:54 pm

If you exchange one VG fund for another, the exchange is done at the close of that day's trading.

I'm talking in general.
This means what If I want to sell VG fund and buy another family fund like OAKBX.

But here's the thing. Vanguard has many pairs of funds that are so similar to each other that, for sixty days anyway, they're pretty much going to track each other other. One such pair is Total Stock Market Index and Index Five Hundred. Another is Total Bond Market Index and Intermediate Bond Market Index. So, as soon as I realized my mistake I just exchanged $5,000 worth of Y back for $5,000 worth of the fund that was similar to X.

What if I enter 5000 shares instead of 500 shares and it's worth 100K instead of 10K?
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Postby nisiprius » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:56 pm

Prokofiev wrote:
FD wrote:Not at all...you can NOT do any of these.

Exchange is always 2 days process...this is why I never do it, since I want to be invested at all times.


Not sure what you're thinking here. If you exchange one VG fund for another, the exchange is done at the close of that day's trading. You will be 100% invested at all times. It is not a 2 day process . . .
Agreed. I do this perhaps several times a year. It is not a "sell to buy" with a settlement time, it's a direct and instantaneous exchange.
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Postby dkturner » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:03 pm

ddb wrote:
I fail to see how canceling an order before it executes constitutes "gaming the system", or how it could possibly be harmful to other shareholders. Many (most?) fund companies and custodians allow order cancellation prior to execution.

- DDB


I believe one of Vanguard's hallmarks is saving fractions of pennies per trade by accumulating data on offsetting buy/sell/exchange orders throughout the day. This may be a factor in the firm's decision to say "final" means "final".

In any event, after you enter all of the necessary data to make an exchange you are shown yet another screen that summarized everything, so you don't have to remember what you have done on the preceeding pages. For most people this in sufficient to keep them from making an error.

Vanguard is, and always has been, a quirky outfit, that largely plays by its own rules. When you deal with Vanguard you have to accept their oddities, because they are unlikely to change them - even for investors with several $million invested with them. Being a not-for-profit business, they have little incentive to humor customers who don't like their, often odd, ways of doing business.
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Postby ziggy29 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:08 pm

FD wrote:BTW, Schwab let you you do buy and sell at the same day.

Do they? When I exchange between funds at Schwab, it winds up as two orders: a sell order on Day 1 and a buy order on Day 2.
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Postby mikep » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:22 pm

They have this policy to drive the market timers to other companies. If you are a long term investor does it really matter? Don't put the order in until you are sure.
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Postby Raybo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:22 pm

Let's suppose that VG wants to "add a cancel button." How long would it work for? When, exactly, does the exchange take place and how long will someone be able to cancel the order?

It seems to me that the logistics of allowing cancellations may be a bit more involved then simply adding a "cancel" button onto a page. And, no matter what the limitations are, someone would be here complaining about the time limit being too short.

How about this idea? If people want better service, why not offer it to them for a price? Allow people to pay a higher management fee to advance to a higher account level where cancellations can be done for, say, 1 hour after the order was placed.

I have no problem with the current system and like the low fees.

One person's "mistake" is another person's loophole.

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Postby sscritic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 pm

I bought an on-line ticket from Southwest Airlines for a flight in January. Once I clicked on confirm, there was no going back. I couldn't cancel the purchase. It doesn't matter that Southwest can sell my seat to another passenger before January, the charge is on my credit card and the ticket is mine.

I bought several items at Walmart. As soon as I looked at the receipt, I noticed an error. They told me they couldn't just cancel the purchase. Instead, I returned the item, and then they sold it to me again at the new price. There were three separate charges on my credit card a purchase, a return, and a purchase.

What charges do you make on a credit card that can be cancelled? Charges can be reversed (which creates another transaction), but that is not the same as canceling the original charge.

Would this work? Place an order to exchange $3000 of MM to Large Cap say. Realize you don't want to do that before 4 pm. Enter an exchange of $3000 of Large Cap to $3000 of Intermediate Term Tax Exempt and another exchange of $3000 of Intermediate Term Tax Exempt to MM. You do need to already have the accounts with the right balances in place, but this gets all the money back to its starting place on the same day.
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Postby Justin618 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:29 pm

VG does have a cancellation option - it's called the confirmation page (there's a cancel button in the corner).

It is what it is.

I would like it if VG had an automatic rebalance feature - but they don't, so I spend 10min a year rebalancing. I accept it - perhaps I'll submit it to the recommendation box.

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Postby blueballoon » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:37 pm

sscritic wrote:
blueballoon wrote:I only wish they would display the date when the order will be executed on the final page of confirmation. One time I started entering the order close to the closing time but I thought I met the 4pm deadline (there is no confirmation) but the order did not go through that day but the next business day. Talking to the service rep revealed that I was late by a few seconds when they received the order. If they had shown the execution date on the last page I would have not confirmed.

How does that help? You finish entering all the data. The confirmation page shows the time as 3:59 and the order to be executed today. By the time you click confirm, the time is 4:00:05 and your order is not executed until the next day. You would be late by the few seconds it took you to read the page and click confirm, exactly as you were in the past.


Simple, if Vanguard already knows it will not be executed that day, just show the next trade date. If they receive the order after deadline, they can reconfirm the trade by showing/updating the next trade date. I think we deserve this much flexibility.
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Child Proof Software Available FREE

Postby Imbusted » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:11 pm

Well, people make mistakes....I'm glad I don't have an account with VG.
Is it a by purpose or VG have old technology?


If reading carefully is not enough to prevent stupid mistakes like his, maybe his parents should install Child Proof 1.0. It's available FREE on the internet.
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Re: Child Proof Software Available FREE

Postby ziggy29 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:16 pm

Imbusted wrote:If reading carefully is not enough to prevent stupid mistakes like his, maybe his parents should install Child Proof 1.0. It's available FREE on the internet.

Cheap shot and uncalled for.
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