Bogleheads

[Lbill]

Adrian White, a social psychologist at the University of Leicester, rated what he considered to be the happiest countries in the world. According to White’s data, the top 10 countries in the world are:

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5. Bahamas
6. Finland
7. Sweden
8. Bhutan
9. Brunei Darussalam
10. Canada
_________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~ Mark Twain
"A foole and his money is soone parted." - J. Bridges, 1587

[bearwolf]

[bob u.]

Hi Lbill--

I find Iceland at #4 somewhat hard to believe given the fact that the country is on the verge of national bankruptcy.

http://cbs5.com/business/icela....35097.html

Bob U.
_________________
"There's no hurry anymore when all is said and done."

[stratton]

Get a secret Swiss bank account or take bike riding trip through it like Raybo.

Paul

[House Blend]

[Lbill]

[bearcub]

Not alot of diversity in these countries. Just an observation.

[billb]

Forget all of those cold places. Snow shoveling makes me miserable. Bahamas at #5 sounds like my choice. Although I've been there and ventured outside of the gates of my resort and it wasn't a place I felt real safe in.

[yobria]

[Eureka]

[Ruben1898]

[swyck]

How easy is it to actually move to Denmark, or any of these other countries on the list? How about a list of best places to live to that you can more or less just pack up and go to?

[German Expat]

My brother in law is Danish and I visit my sister quite often in Denmark. The people are happier because of their mentality. If you transfer an American (or German) for that matter into Denmark he would probably not be that happy.
It is not the country, it is the people. Danish are quite relaxed (my brother in law owns a company but still leaves work at 4pm), enjoy being with family, are great when you have a party and in general know how to enjoy life.
Also they do pay one of the highest taxes in the world but do not complain about it.

[Pacific]

[TJAJ9]

[RandomGuy101]

I'm skeptical

[freebeer]

Denmark invented cohousing and today 1% of the Danish population - 50,000 people, the equivalent of 3M people in US - live in cohousing communities.

I'm not suggesting there is any causality at work, but a country that has so many people choosing to live in this more cooperative way is definitely a standard deviation or so away from most of the rest of the developed world (although cohousing is spreading in US and elsewhere, given its financial, lifestyle, and sustainability benefits).

[Ruben1898]

Again, regarding the last few posts....what works in Denmark is largely due to a homogeneous society. Here the different groups are always at odds with each other.

[Booger99]

A quick glance at Wikipedia reveals that Canada, Brunei, Switzerland, Sweden, and the Bahamas are all very diverse countries. The very formation of Switzerland was the merger of four different ethnic groups (German speaking, Italian speaking, Romansh Speaking and French speaking). This idea that a country must be homogeneous to be happy doesn't seem to hold water. Perhaps there is another reason all of these countries are happy places? One thing they all share are very low rates of poverty and high rates of social spending.

[azxcvbnm321]

What is cohousing? How is that different from having a roommate?

[Eureka]

[Harold]

I had thought that many of these countries are happier than the US because more of the populace takes satisfaction in simpler things.

Less psychological desire for the biggest house, most expensive car, highest paying job, etc. More psychological desire for time to spend with people, savoring basic food/drink, etc.

Surely part is a recognition of economic and other realities, but the outcome sure seems to be greater happiness.

[Bernd]

I bet people in the European countries on the list are very surprised that the US has a heated debate about having universal health insurance right now. Europeans coming to the US are surprised that some people here (a lot) can not afford to have health insurance and therefore must suffer medically. They are also surprised to see homeless people.

People over there are more happy because they do not have to worry about the future in their lives. They are paying more taxes and into Social Security and health insurance premium, but they do not have to worry to end up in the streets and sick, especially in a major medical emergency. Also, I notice that we have some very restrictive criminal laws - unknown in Europe - which can derail the life of a successful worker and conservative person forever based on a single minor incident. I.e., a single DWI, etc. will get you fired in major companies. Christian foregiveness is lacking here.

I came from Europe and have compared these facts all my life. When you are successful, everything is great here though.

[Ron]

While based in the U.S. I've had the opportunity to work in two countries in Western Europe.

My observation is that while they are certainly happier than those in the U.S. they pay for their lifestyle through taxes.

Not to say that is wrong. Who's to say that one who pays less tax (and pays for "lifestyle" privately) is different than those who pay more tax and has it as a "right".

In the end (IMHO) we all pay the same. It depends on your personal belief if you want any goverment to pay for your basic lifestyle or you cover it (if you wish/can) on your own.

Not to be a political post at all (I'm not stating what I believe in), but IMHO, it may be a situation that it all comes out even, in the end...

- Ron
_________________
7AF, 377 CSG, Tan Son Nhut, Vietnam 68-69...

[chaz]

I'm happy in the U.S.
_________________
Chaz

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[Patchy Groundfog]

How do the researchers explain the fact that, according to WHO, most of those countries, and all of the European ones, have higher suicide rates than the U.S.?
_________________
The best things in life aren't things.

[superlight]

Suicide probably depends on a few things (the unhappy "tail" of the distribution, and social mores about self-injury), but I'd guess it doesn't actually depend on the mean happiness.

A sad thought would be that general happiness could make the tail more miserable.
_________________
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

[Ron]

[TJAJ9]

The US is a decent place to live, but I won't say it's the best. How could I? I've never lived in other countries. I don't blindly believe in anything. A lot of people in other countries think that "my country is the best" just like most Americans do. It's a shame because I feel that many Americans are ignorant in thinking everything is great and perfect in the US. There is a lot that needs to be improved in this country. Maybe a country in Europe or someplace else is a better place to live because of the reasons listed in this thread -- or maybe not.

[Munir]

I wonder if more people in those "happy" countries see themselves as part of a community (or society) than we do here in the US. We glorify the individual and the life goals sought often address the needs and aspirations of individuals. I'm not saying this is wrong or undesirable but it carries a heavier burden of responsibility on the shoulders of the individual, with pressures to achieve and create advancement for the individual. Many other countries speak of the group vs. the individual; and it could be the extended family, clan, or society. The burdens and responsibilities are spread among more individuals than we have here, with all hopefully working for the common good (of course, I'm generalizing).

[TJAJ9]

[meaghansketch]

I think there are lifestyle issues in these countries which can't be separated from public policy. --Political/economic remarks deleted--

For me, I feel it isn't as much a 'happiness' issue as what I would call a 'contentedness' issue. I think there is a lot less worry in the countries on the list. Most of Western Europe has health care that's not tied to one's job, and has relatively good social safety nets. If you lose your job in Denmark, you don't lose your health insurance- and that's one reason for people to worry a lot less. If you get a serious illness in Denmark, you probably don't face bankruptcy. Shorter work weeks (and less expectation that workers will all work overtime), more vacation time, and long maternity/paternity leaves, to me, seem to also play a part as to why these countries may rate higher in 'happiness'.

The flip side to this is, yes, higher taxes, less opportunity for becoming extremely wealthy, higher unemployment, etc. I would also say it's important to note that happiness can't really be measured objectively, and that one person's version of what would make them happiest, in terms of public policy, would be the opposite of what someone else would prefer.

The US, as a culture, seems to believe very strongly in the individual. There is a sense, to me, that if you succeed, it is because of yourself, and if you fail, it is because of yourself. In most of Western Europe, I feel like there is more collectivism... A sense that if you succeed, it is (at least partially) because of your society, and that if you fail, your society has failed you.

[wbond]

Here I am on a fine Saturday thinking about the meaning of happiness - is it the Aristotlean version of "eudaimonia," the Socratic equating of virtue (arete) with happiness, or something more pedestrian and utilitarian? Or were the Epicureans right? Or, perhaps, in this meaningless, non-teleologic universe, the question is itself pointless and meaningless?

And then I stumble upon this thread, where not only do I discover that an academic psychologist in Leicester has the authoratative answer but that he has determined a way to measure it in a meaningful way and actually has rankings!

Forget the philosopher's stone (gold is in a bubble anyway and will certainly crash to below the value of lead soon), this is the real McCoy! And who cares that Bhutan ranks higher than the U.S. I am going straight to the "Methods" section to find the meaning of life. I will report back soon.

-wbond

[wbond]

OK, so it appears the paper was published in 2007 - with early release presumably leaked to the press by Denmark - in something called "Psychtalk", but I cannot seem to access it for free (who would give this stuff away, afterall).

The best I can tell from the media reports and Wikipedia descriptions is that the methodology is primarily to ask people how they feel. Perhaps the report should be: People in Denmark say that they are happier than you in a statistically significant way.

(Parenthetical sarcasm break: I'm obviously missing how the logic is not a tight circle. In other areas of the various descriptions of measurement you read that they also incorporate statistical measurements including GDP/capita, pollution, education level achieved, etc. and then quote the author as saying that wealth, health, and education levels appear to be the key. So you rank people based on a set of criteria and the "discover" that those criteria are they key to being ranked highly?).

You could also call this the "I am happier than you" map, otherwise known as the "smugness" map.

But perhaps smugness is too nice in some cases: it turns out that the people of Bhutan are happy because the government finally expelled the etnically Nepalese.

With these kind of "scientific" advances, how could anyone be sad?

And they even have conferences: Gross National Happiness. You can't make that name up.

P.S.

Edit to say: you really ought to look at the link. SNL or the Onion could not do a better parody.

[freebeer]

[SP-diceman]

[Lbill]

[Babakhani]

Another way of saying that someone is more complacent than us. People in other countries are just happy with the status quo. The mentality in the US is to always improve, which implies that something can be better than the status quo.

I have immigrated to the US 21 years ago and have been to many countries. I have to tell you there is no place in the world like the US. You can do anything and be anyone you want.

How many Danish or Iceland-ians have ever traveled to the US and seen its freedom, riches, and magnificence? The best they can do is go to Paris, London, Berlin, and Rome and think that they are in elite cities. I've been to these places and although the trips were nice, they don't have the cleanliness, respect (as seen by lack of ramps, elevators for the disabled), and lifestyle enjoyed in the US. Just a few examples.

Food tastes better here, activities are plentiful, and everyone with a decent job can enjoy most things.

[thisguy1]

[quote="Eureka"]

[sherwink]

I think it was Abe Lincoln who said, "People are as happy as they make up their mind to be."

[SP-diceman]

Anyone care to make a wager on when Adrian White will pack up and move to Bhutan?
(how about never)
I'm willing to bet he likes his capitalist trappings of teaching, tenure, and being paid
well to do nonsense studies.(with most likely a generous retirement package)

Id be curious to know how many brain surgeons, cardiologists, places like
Bhutan have?

The problem is basing everything on all having exactly the same is just as dumb
as basing everything on just happiness.
(I was pretty happy when I was 10 years old. Doesn't mean that's what I would want my
whole life to be)

Its funny. There's a lot of talk about Bodgleheads being frugal.
I bet in Bhutan they'd be "the rich". (heh, heh)


Thanks
SP-diceman

[Paladin]

[Paladin]

[Babakhani]

[Babakhani]

[Paladin]

[Babakhani]

[GeekedOut]

[Paladin]

[Babakhani]