Bogleheads Home Bogleheads
Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle
 
  WikiWiki    FAQFAQ    SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bogleheads Forum Index -> Investing - Help with Personal Investments
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Excluding the costs of the index funds themselves, what is a reasonable annual cost (as a % of assets) for an adviser to charge for a $250K portfolio?
Less than 0.5%
62%
 62%  [ 18 ]
Moret than 0.5% but less than 1.0%
27%
 27%  [ 8 ]
More than 1.0% but less than 1.5%
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
More than 1.5% but less than 2.0%
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
More than 2.0%
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 29

Author Message
Allan Roth



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions Reply with quote

I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Boglenaut



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 1081

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions Reply with quote

Allan Roth wrote:
I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:

Thanks.


I didn't vote.

Advisers should be paid by the hour.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex Frakt
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 5018
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What services does the hypothetical adviser provide for the client? I also think you might be skewing the responses by using such a small portfolio, Considering the work and overhead that goes with professional money management, 500k is a more reasonable minimum for an adviser to take on someone on an AUM fee basis. I'd be concerned that anyone taking it on for less is going to find a way make up their costs somehow - to the investor's detriment. Someone with a 250k portfolio is better off paying for advice on an hourly basis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EmergDoc



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 6135
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Frakt wrote:
What services does the hypothetical adviser provide for the client?


Exactly the right question.
_________________
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Allan Roth



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions Reply with quote

Boglenaut wrote:
Allan Roth wrote:
I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:

Thanks.


I didn't vote.

Advisers should be paid by the hour.


I am very biased here, as an hourly adviser, but I completely agree. Nonetheless, even hourly can create some bad incentives such as claiming to need to rebalance too often, creating complex index portfolios, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ruralavalon



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1035
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the advisor just providing a plan, does he/she manage the account, or both? It makes a great deal of difference what the advisor's function is.

IMO a planner should generally charge by the hour or by the project. The portfolio manager might be better compensated on a percentage basis, but I have no real opinion on that.
_________________
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slick_dealer_05



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions Reply with quote

Allan Roth wrote:
I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:
Thanks.


If you are working on a column, you can mention that the best financial advice can be found on the bogleheads forum free of cost

Seriously...for just a 250K portfolio, there is no need of any advisor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Triple digit golfer



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 1297

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just something to consider: You're asking that question at a website where the biggest proponents of low-cost investing hang out! Smile

I bet if you asked it at other forums people would give you more votes in the higher costs.

I voted 0.5% - 1.0%. I think $2,500 is very reasonable for a $250k portfolio if you can't or don't want to manage it on your own. By using index funds, it's a piece of cake. If using active funds, I'd say even higher costs would be reasonable because you have to keep up on what those fund managers are currently investing in.

As a Boglehead, I use index funds and do it on my own, spending just minutes a few times a year rebalancing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Taylor Larimore
Moderator


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 9878
Location: Miami Florida

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Hiring a financial advisor Reply with quote

slick_dealer_05 wrote:
Allan Roth wrote:
I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:
Thanks.


If you are working on a column, you can mention that the best financial advice can be found on the bogleheads forum free of cost

Seriously...for just a 250K portfolio, there is no need of any advisor


In general, this may be true, but there are many investors, regardless of portfolio size, who can benefit from the services of a low-cost competent advisor. I'll list a few of the reasons one might engage the services of a financial advisor:

* Lack of time.

* Lack of knowledge and unwilling to take the time to learn.

* Investor's subject to emotion and impulsive behavior.

* Investor has made mistakes that need correcting.

* Investors with special needs (a trust for a handicap child for example).

* Investors that travel or live abroad.

* Investors with small but complicated portfolios needing fund selection and portfolio tax advice.

* An advisor can distinguish between good and bad advice from friends, media, and yes, the Boglehead forum.

I'm sure professional advisors can give more reasons, but I doubt if "portfolio size" should be the primary criteria for hiring an advisor.
_________________
Best wishes
Taylor

The Majesty of Simplicity
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tetractys



Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 2418
Location: Salish Sea Region

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Indexed Portfolio - Boglehead opinions Reply with quote

Allan Roth wrote:
I'm working on a column on the costs of indexing and would like your opinion:

From what I've seen, fee only advisers are pretty open with their costs. Why not ask a few of them what's involved? -- Tet
_________________
"Near panic conditions prevail in financial markets. People want to know what lies ahead. I cannot tell them because I do not know." -- George Soros
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tall Grass



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1196
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the hour or none at all...
_________________
"I am less interested in the return on my money than the return of my money."
- Will Rogers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bogleheads Forum Index -> Investing - Help with Personal Investments All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group