who is Dan Weiner?

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who is Dan Weiner?

Postby tjg911 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:08 pm

i got an email from a friend, the whole thing is about Dan Weiner and the bad funds at vanguard. surprise surprise - Dan Weiner sells a newsletter!

i have not clicked on the links tho i am curious. just who is this guy?

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Postby mickeyd » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:23 pm

Dan Weiner sells a newsletter!


Run away...Run away.... :shock:
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Postby dratkinson » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:42 am

I bought the Weiner newsletter a few years ago before I learned about global index portfolios. But I quickly had buyers remorse and paid for the Hurlbert report ($25) on Weiner's newsletter. Weiner's newsletter was not highly rated, so I canceled my subscription within the 3-day grace period.

At the same time, I also bought the Hurlbert report on the NoLoad FundX newsletter which I was also interested in. It was highly rated, but required more active management on my part (newsletter expense, brokerage account, trading expenses, higher taxes...) and I decided that strategy was just not for me. I'm just too lazy to do all of that work and give money to other people.

Instead, I like it here. I like being able to say, "...I don't know and I don't care..." about market conditions because I own the whole world!

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Postby boffalora » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:26 am

Dan Wiener's investment philosophy is essentially this: Although Vanguard built its reputation on index funds, it also runs some awfully good managed funds with similarly rock-bottom expense ratios. Many of the better Vanguard managed funds do especially well in the midcap range.

Therefore, a handsome portfolio that will deliver better-than-Total Stock Market returns with significantly less risk can be built by cherry-picking from Vanguard's funds, both the managed and index varieties.

Wiener has developed a group of model portfolios with various goals; pure growth, conservative growth, and pure income. Plus a growth portfolio based entirely on Vanguard index funds.

To Wiener's credit, he seems to know his way around Vanguard, particularly as related to some of its investor relations foibles. He advises clients on how to avoid some of these. On the downside, once he exposes an issue at Vanguard, they usually fix it, and his "tip" is useless.

Although he seems to be able to demonstrate the superior results of his model portfolios, some of these include Vanguard funds now closed. Wiener offers substitute funds from other families to fill in the gaps. For someone who's wanting to stay within the Vanguard family, this is of little consolation.

Sometimes he categorically nixes what appears to be a worthwhile Vanguard fund for no clear reason. Trying to research why he has done this can be vexing. His reason is usually that there is a better fund within Vanguard (or among his substitutes) that he believes accomplishes the same thing, or that he has a problem with a fund's volatility. In any case, subscribers have access to a members-only forum like this one where questions can be asked and an answer received promptly from another knowledgeable subscriber.

As for his comprehensive guide to Vanguard funds and his "Funds you must sell now!" schtick, it's all marketing to sell subscriptions. The value of a subscription is in his model portfolios and his forum, not his booklets.

So...if you decide to try Wiener's service, first do your homework. Google around for the best rate for a year's subscription and pounce on it. There are as many different prices out there as you'd expect to find at a Turkish bazaar. That's another annoying issue most of his followers have with him.

Good luck!
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Postby chaz » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:09 pm

Weiner got me into CapOpp and Health Care years ago, and both did well over time.
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Postby tjg911 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:03 pm

thanks. when i saw he was selling a newsletter i figured this is a bunch of crap, so to speak. i'm surprised by some positive comments, i expected all bad. i won't be buying his newsletter but will look at the links out of curiosity only.

tom
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Postby murfields » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:11 pm

My last newsletter from Dan Wiener will be October. I like many sign for two years and after six months wanted to cancel. Not possible, don't believe his advertising brochures. The letter is worthless for anyone who has a few hours to manage his own retirement funds. And Dan's top Growth Portfolio in the last 5 years has not done any better than his 6 fund index portfolio which he says is comparative to his top Growth portfolio. The YTD for this year is -11.7% vs -11.6% with the index fund ahead with 0.1% less lost.

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Postby Adrian Nenu » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:32 pm

Dan Wiener is the greatest danger to Vanguard investors.

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Postby investor » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:54 pm

murfield....

how is the forum on the Wiener site ?

:twisted: :roll:
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Postby sergeant » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:21 pm

I wanted to know who he was and used Google to do a search. That is how I found this site!

I had been getting his advertisements for years and did invest in the Healthcare fund many years ago based on the advertisements. It worked out pretty good.

This information here is more valuable to me than his newsletter ever would have been.
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Postby statsguy » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:54 pm

investor wrote:murfield....

how is the forum on the Wiener site ?

:twisted: :roll:


Murfield is one of the most prolific posters... which adds spice and interest the forum. The forum voted almost unanimously to implore him to re-subscribe.

The Wiener forum is pretty healthy. Lately, there have been lots of political posts for and against candidates for president. Those mostly do not interest me. Excluding the political stuff the forum is very similar to Bogleheads... though not as active.

I am one who really likes Dan Wiener's models... I think his Growth Model and Growth Index Model are his best models. I think most investors are better off adding some bonds to one of the Growth models than to use his Conservative Growth or Income models.

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Postby OhioGozaimas » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:21 am

I, too, had a two-year subscription which is now expired and not renewed.

There seemed to be an item that was interesting or thought-provoking every other month or so, but not much more than that... (I wasn't following his portfolios.)

Wiener also publishes an "FFSA Independent Guide to the Vanguard Funds," annually in February. It's a kinda handy paperback book with 10 years of history and a one-page recap on each fund, including Wiener's capsule comments. (Now there also is an ETF Guide, which I haven't seen.) Some of his newsletter offers include the most recent annual(s?) in the freebies.

Good luck!
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Postby trefoil » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:40 am

His sales pitch says:

WORST MISTAKE #1: Investing in index funds! Why is this a terrible mistake? The reason why is because Vanguard's managed funds dramatically outperform the index funds—by as much as 2-to-1 in 2007!


:roll:

• WORST MISTAKE #3: Ignoring the demographics of the economy. The first of 77 million baby boomers turned 65 this year and began selling off their overpriced McMansions. Not investing in health care, therefore, is a big mistake.

• WORST MISTAKE #4: Jumping into bubble sectors like energy. You'd think that after the tech wreck and mortgate meltdown, investors would steer clear of "red hot" sector funds, but they still make that mistake at Vanguard. Billions are pouring into these funds as we speak.


:roll: Not quite sure how to reconcile those two.
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Postby Adrian Nenu » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:32 am

My favorite Dan Wiener line is the one in which he calls himself "the Bogle's Bogle" implying that Jack Bogle consults him for investment advice. Nothing can be further from the truth: Jack apparently isn't listening to Wiener because he recommends diversification, index funds, is against market timing and performance chasing while Wiener pushes market timing, performance chasing, sector and actively managed funds. You decide who you want to believe but it is crystal clear to me that the person most qualified to give beneficial investing advice is Jack Bogle.

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Postby Roverdog » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:45 am

I subscribed in the early 90s (back when I was reading the Compuserve investing boards using an Apple II with a 300 baud modem). Since I actually read the fund prospectuses, I figured out that there really wasn't anything novel in the newsletter so I let the subscription lapse. But it was mildly entertaining. :)

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Postby nisiprius » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:21 am

The latest Nisiprius newsletter features articles on

*The healthiest food at McDonald's

*Fuel-saving tips for Hummer owners

*The best technique for driving nails with a wrench
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Postby jhd » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:06 am

nisiprius wrote:The latest Nisiprius newsletter features articles on

*The healthiest food at McDonald's

*Fuel-saving tips for Hummer owners

*The best technique for driving nails with a wrench


Nice start - but where's the cherry-picked data? ("Hummer fuel economy exceeds Honda when coasting downhill.")
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Postby Petrocelli » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:56 am

Dan Wiener is not as good as he thinks he is, or as bad as many posters here portray him. He is neither an angel nor a devil.

He sells an expensive magazine. He has some portfolios in it. The portfolios trade very little and follow basic Diehard precepts in that they use low-cost funds and are diversified among asset classes.

If you want to, you can read a few books on the Diehard reading list and make a portfolio as good as Dan's. However, based on personal experience, I can tell you that few investors will (or can) make it through one chapter of one book, never mind all chapters of a few. Therefore, Dan Wiener actually performs a service for most investors in that he constructs a portfolio better than they could construct themselves.
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Postby chaz » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:09 am

Petrocelli wrote:Dan Wiener is not as good as he thinks he is, or as bad as many posters here portray him. He is neither an angel nor a devil.

He sells an expensive magazine. He has some portfolios in it. The portfolios trade very little and follow basic Diehard precepts in that they use low-cost funds and are diversified among asset classes.

If you want to, you can read a few books on the Diehard reading list and make a portfolio as good as Dan's. However, based on personal experience, I can tell you that few investors will (or can) make it through one chapter of one book, never mind all chapters of a few. Therefore, Dan Wiener actually performs a service for most investors in that he constructs a portfolio better than they could construct themselves.


Surprise. I was able to read more than one book completely through, and I think many others have the same ability. But Petro may be right about the majority of investors. Sad.
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Postby chaz » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:28 am

Petro, as noted earlier in this thread, Weiner did help me by recommending Cap Opp and Health Care, both of which I got several years ago.
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Belong to Dan's Newsletter

Postby Bette » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:03 pm

I had a broker for 12 years (did very well) but this past December 29 he disappeared. I deciding to move to Vanguard and simplify my life from day trading. I start to study each fund and after a month of frustration,and wanting to put a million dollars to work, I joined Dan's newsletter for ideas.

I have mostly fallowed his advise and feel it was well worth triple the price.
I now can take my time adding my individual stocks to my portfolio since I have the fund portion fully funded.
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Postby Rick Ferri » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:21 pm

There's nothing like a bull market to make us feel like we're getting good advice! :wink:


.
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby billjohnson » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:11 pm

tjg911 wrote:Who is Dan Weiner?

Anthony Weiner's third cousin?
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby SVariance1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:26 pm

billjohnson wrote:
tjg911 wrote:Who is Dan Weiner?

Anthony Weiner's third cousin?


We have a winning post here!
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Postby mlebuf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:51 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:There's nothing like a bull market to make us feel like we're getting good advice! :wink:
.


Amen! In a hurricane, even turkeys can fly. :D
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Postby Higman » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:11 pm

Petrocelli wrote:
Dan Wiener is not as good as he thinks he is, or as bad as many posters here portray him. He is neither an angel nor a devil.

He sells an expensive magazine. He has some portfolios in it. The portfolios trade very little and follow basic Diehard precepts in that they use low-cost funds and are diversified among asset classes.

If you want to, you can read a few books on the Diehard reading list and make a portfolio as good as Dan's. However, based on personal experience, I can tell you that few investors will (or can) make it through one chapter of one book, never mind all chapters of a few. Therefore, Dan Wiener actually performs a service for most investors in that he constructs a portfolio better than they could construct themselves.


Petrocelli is right on in his analysis. I don’t know why Dan Wiener is so maligned by so many folks here. I subscribe to his news letter intermittently just to read his interviews with the Vanguard fund managers. Dan’s basic philosophy is to invest in the manager and not the fund. However he does have an index fund portfolio for index fans. You can get a look at his respectable portfolio performances by checking out “Madsingers Monthy Report (June 2011)”. The four newsletter funds (G, CG, Inc, G-Index) and “hot hands” are Dan’s portfolios. For the non-DYIer Dan offers a fair service.
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Postby mickeyd » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:52 pm

If Dan Weiner's making good money by selling a newsletter to Vanguard folks that need help, I say good for him. He's getting paid for doing what we do for fun here @ Bogleheads.
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Postby robwny » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:09 pm

I got a email from dan wiener and was trying to see if it was worth it. I do need help with AA. It seems like what vanguard offers and everyone on this form would be the same ?
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Postby chaz » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:02 pm

robwny wrote:I got a email from dan wiener and was trying to see if it was worth it. I do need help with AA. It seems like what vanguard offers and everyone on this form would be the same ?


Look at the wiki (link below).
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Postby NAVigator » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:02 pm

robwny wrote:I got a email from dan wiener and was trying to see if it was worth it. I do need help with AA. It seems like what vanguard offers and everyone on this form would be the same ?


I would worry if there would be large differences, wouldn't you? Is one's portfolio really very different from others? We may be at various points on on investment paths, but the investment approach should not vary greatly. There are about 25,000 members of this forum and there about 10 or so asset allocations mentioned in the Wiki.

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Postby Stevewc » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:45 pm

It is very nice to see a topic that brings Petrocelli & Adrian Nenu out of the wood work. Good to see you guys hanging around.
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Postby gkaplan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:57 pm

This is an old thread. Adrian Nenu made his post in 2008.
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Postby NAVigator » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Stevewc wrote:It is very nice to see a topic that brings Petrocelli & Adrian Nenu out of the wood work.

Their posts were from 2008.

Some threads never die. :wink:

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Postby Stevewc » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:09 pm

Sorry, didn't notice the dates.
Can't win or even be in the game, all the time.
Have I made a fool of my self yet? If not, stay tuned. :oops:
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Postby robwny » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:18 pm

i guess i should have started a new one
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Postby Bongleur » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:22 pm

IIRC, a firm called Advisor Investments consists of Wiener and another guy who is a Fidelity expert. They do fee-based (AUM) portfolio management.
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Postby statsguy » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:25 pm

I have subscribed to the Dan Wiener (DW) newsletter for about 6 years. DW has four model portfolios, one of which is an index portfolio.

DW prefers low expense ratio managed funds to index funds. The three non-indexed portfolios all contain one index fund.

His main portfolio, in my opinion is the Growth Model, which is composed of 6 managed funds and an index fund. I like his portfolios because he (like myself) prefers a portfolio with a large midcap allocation.

Here is the current Instant X-ray information on the Growth Model.

Code: Select all
 5% CASH
73% US equity
18% Intl equity
 4% bonds

       M* style box
     value core growth
large  12     24     26
mid    12      9      9
small   3      2      2


You can see the style box is more aggressive than total stock market approach. Rightly, or wrongly, he benchmarks his portfolio against total stock market. The portfolio has beaten this benchmark with a slightly smaller standard deviation than the total stock market.

We do not follow the portfolio but do take ideas from it.

In my opinion, his model portfolios are a good choice for someone who does not know where to start with asset allocation. I think petrocelli's description above of DW newsletter is pretty accurate.

For anyone interested, there is a 6-month money back guarantee. I know in the past several on this forum have used that guarantee to see what the newsletter is all about.

Best of luck
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Postby chaz » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:55 pm

Is it Wiener or Weiner?
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Postby statsguy » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:19 pm

Weiner or Wiener? I try to call him DW since I can never remember.

From the website
Daniel P. Wiener is editor of The Independent Adviser for Vanguard Investors
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Postby chaz » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:30 pm

statsguy wrote:Weiner or Wiener? I try to call him DW since I can never remember.

From the website
Daniel P. Wiener is editor of The Independent Adviser for Vanguard Investors


Good idea, except that is shorthand for Dear Wife.
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Postby riskreward » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:36 pm

statsguy wrote:Weiner or Wiener? I try to call him DW since I can never remember.

From the website
Daniel P. Wiener is editor of The Independent Adviser for Vanguard Investors



i before e except after c
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Postby robwny » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:39 pm

I think I'm going to sign up for 1year and comes with 6 mo money back will see I will let everyone know how it goes
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Re:

Postby Petrocelli » Sun May 20, 2012 10:06 am

robwny wrote:I think I'm going to sign up for 1year and comes with 6 mo money back will see I will let everyone know how it goes


How did it work out for you?
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby vencat » Sun May 20, 2012 10:25 am

Just check Madsinger's monthly report. This has a bunch of portfolio returns since 1999 including Wiener's portfolios.
1, 3 and 5 year returns are less than stellar.
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Re:

Postby umfundi » Sun May 20, 2012 4:11 pm

riskreward wrote:i before e except after c


Really?

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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby Beagler » Sun May 20, 2012 6:10 pm

ntip.
“The only place where success come before work is in the dictionary.” Abraham Lincoln. This post does not provide advice for specific individual situations and should not be construed as doing so.
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby chaz » Sun May 20, 2012 7:14 pm

Dan helped me many years ago by recommending the Vanguard Health fund.
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby Petrocelli » Mon May 21, 2012 1:40 pm

vencat wrote:Just check Madsinger's monthly report. This has a bunch of portfolio returns since 1999 including Wiener's portfolios.
1, 3 and 5 year returns are less than stellar.


I think the returns look pretty good, don't they?

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=95680&p=1379680#p1379680
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby vencat » Mon May 21, 2012 11:04 pm

VFINX has beaten your once favored 'hot hands' over 1 and 5 years :wink: . Likewise Taylor's trio has beaten the G portfolio.
However, while I'm an indexer, there is no question that you could do far worse than select low cost active Vanguard funds.
You don't need Weiner to select them. I'm not even mentioning those wonderful dinosaurs Wellington and Wellesley!
Speaking off hot hands I'm reminded of a momentum strategy you mentioned years ago. Was it No load fund x newsletter or may be I'm mistaken......

Best wishes
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Re: who is Dan Weiner?

Postby Random Musings » Tue May 22, 2012 10:05 am

Who is Dan Weiner? Very simply.....

Vell, Weiner's just zis guy, you know?

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