bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

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bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

Postby rocket » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:42 pm

Why do we refer to ourselves as Diehards ???
It seems so obivious that we should call ourselves Bogleheads.
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Re: bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

Postby at » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:37 pm

rocket wrote:Why do we refer to ourselves as Diehards ???
It seems so obivious that we should call ourselves Bogleheads.


It's better to call ourselves Diehards because we do style investing and foreign-country diversification.
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Re: bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

Postby Mel Lindauer » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:48 pm

rocket wrote:Why do we refer to ourselves as Diehards ???
It seems so obivious that we should call ourselves Bogleheads.


Hi Rocket:

A bit of history. When the Vanguard forum was being formed at M*, many folks wanted it to be named the "Bogleheads Forum", after our friend and mentor, Jack Bogle. Jennie Barrie, the M* forum coordinator, decided to name it the "Vanguard Diehards" instead, referring to the persistence of the folks asking for a separate Vanguard forum. Thus the name "Vanguard Diehards".

When we were deciding on a name for this new forum, the name "Bogleheads" was a natural, both to honor Jack Bogle and to differentiate the forum names.

Since many of us post on both forums, we're both Diehards and Bogleheads.

Regards,

Mel
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Re: bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

Postby rocket » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:38 pm

It seems appropriate to name local chapters Bogleheads (e.g., Dallas Bogleheads, Huntsville Bogleheads) rather than Diehards.

I will try to find a first meeting place for the Huntsville Diehards tomorrow.

Mel Lindauer wrote:
rocket wrote:Why do we refer to ourselves as Diehards ??? It seems so obivious that we should call ourselves Bogleheads.

Hi Rocket: A bit of history. When the Vanguard forum was being formed at M*, many folks wanted it to be named the "Bogleheads Forum", after our friend and mentor, Jack Bogle. Jennie Barrie, the M* forum coordinator, decided to name it the "Vanguard Diehards" instead, referring to the persistence of the folks asking for a separate Vanguard forum. Thus the name "Vanguard Diehards". When we were deciding on a name for this new forum, the name "Bogleheads" was a natural, both to honor Jack Bogle and to differentiate the forum names.
Since many of us post on both forums, we're both Diehards and Bogleheads.
Regards,
Mel
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Re: bogleheads VS Diehards ?????

Postby Mel Lindauer » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:58 pm

rocket wrote:It seems appropriate to name local chapters Bogleheads (e.g., Dallas Bogleheads, Huntsville Bogleheads) rather than Diehards.

I will try to find a first meeting place for the Huntsville Diehards tomorrow.


Hi Rocket:

You bring up a good point. If we were starting today, that's what we'd call the Local Chapters. However, when we started establishing Local Chapters, we were known as the "Morningstar Vanguard Diehards". Thus the name, and it's stuck for consistency. However, if the majority of Local Chapters would like to have the name changed to "Bogleheads Local Chapter ##", I'm certainly not against changing it.

Regards,

Mel
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Diehard or Boglehead

Postby Taylor Larimore » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:18 pm

Hi Rocket:
Why do we refer to ourselves as Diehards ???
It seems so obivious that we should call ourselves Bogleheads.


I never liked the term Diehard. According to Webster's dictionary, "diehard" means:

1. One who stubbornly adheres to traditional and outdated views.
2. One who vigorously defends an apparently hopeless position, a lost cause, etc.
3. stubbornly and vigorously resisting in the face of seemingly hopeless odds; as, diehard opposition.


None of this represents the philosophy of Mr. Bogle or Vanguard.

In my view, "Boglehead" is a much more descriptive word. It is a recognition and tribute to the man who has spent his life helping individual investors get "a fair shake."

To show our appreciation, Mel, Michael and I titled our book: "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing." We dedicated the book to Mr. Bogle with these words:



........................"To John C. Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group........................

A man whom we knew from afar for many years but have since come to know and cherish as a friend. While some mutual fund founders chose to make billions, he chose to make a difference."


Best wishes this Christmas day.
Taylor
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K12 School districts

Postby sschullo » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:46 am

Hi Taylor,
There is one possible exception to your interpretation. From my point of view, interacting with school officials and union leaders, a diehard mentality is a requirement because I know the feeling and have admittedly responded as 2. one who vigorously defends an apparently hopeless position, a lost cause, etc. and 3. stubbornly and vigorously resisting in the face of seemingly hopeless odds; as a diehard opposition.

Multiply the folks who come here and defend the managed fund industry about 100 times (we all know their names) and you will know what it’s like to “talk” to K12 school officials and union leaders about the importance of indexing. Their diehard mentality is so pervasive (1. One who stubbornly adheres to traditional and outdated views) that many times I have considered quitting my membership on the LAUSD 457b oversight committee.
Happy Holidays,
Steve
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Re: Diehard or Boglehead

Postby Dan Kohn » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:16 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:I never liked the term Diehard.


This seems reason enough to switch the forum from being located at diehards.org to bogleheads.org. Note that both domains are controlled by Alex and both currently redirect to diehards.org. Getting them to instead redirect to bogleheads.org requires a one-line change to the .htaccess file (a 301 "Pemanently Moved" redirect. All existing bookmarks and search engine results would continue to work normally, with the URL changed from diehards to bogleheads. That is, nobody should be inconvenienced, but the URL would better fit the name of the site.

Separately, I noticed that bogleheads.net .info and .biz are currently available for registration. Alex, would you be willing to at least register the .net address? I'll happily send you $50 via PayPal to cover 5 years registration. But I would hate to see someone register those and create a financial spam site that tried to take advantage of the bogleheads name.
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My thoughts

Postby Petrocelli » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:01 pm

Since I was the one who initially proposed changing the name of this forum to the "Bogleheads", I would like to weigh in on this issue.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether the opening page is diehards.org or bogleheads.org. Moreover, I doesn't matter to me what the chapters are called since I have never attended, and will probably never attend, a chapter meeting.

However, changing the names as discussed above would send a message to the Diehards. If whoever is in charge (and I am not sure who makes such a decision) wishes to change the name, he or she should consider it could have a negative impact.
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)
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