How much REIT in TSM?

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How much REIT in TSM?

Postby mcdave » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:09 pm

I have rebalanced out of VGSIX (REIT index fund every year since I have held it (since retirement). NO complaints on that issue. However, I have come to realize that holding
the Total Stock Market Index (VTSMX) 35% of my total portfolio,
and
NAESX (Small Cap Index) at 8% of total portfolio,
and
VGSIX (REIT index) at 10.5% of total portfolio
gives me more than 10% of my allocation to REITS
when the proportion of REITs in the other two funds are added in. (Rest of portfolio is 10% Total international, 34% Total Bond Market. Balance is in Prime MM for near term use.

Since I am 5 years into retirement I think it prudent to increase my Bond allocation by reducing exposure to REITs.

What percent of REIT should I sell and add to BONDS to bring the true allocation to 10%? 3%? 4%? 5%? etc. :?:
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Almost 24 hours and no response!

Postby mcdave » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:34 pm

Have I asked a dumb question?
Are there no Bogleheads who have an answer for me?
Is the question too hard?
Is the collective wisdom of this community unable to answer a question?
Come on! I would like a response :!:
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I have read your question

Postby cfs » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:38 pm

How much REIT in TSM?

I read it when originally posted, went to the Vanguard website, checked for an answer, but could not come up with a solid number for you. I look forward to the correct answer.

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Postby BrianTH » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:57 pm

My impression is that VTSMX is around 2.5% REITs (which makes sense if VISVX is around 17%). But all this is constantly subject to change, and the way to get a hard number is go to the latest filings in EDGAR and figure it out.
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Postby simba » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:51 pm

BrianTH wrote:My impression is that VTSMX is around 2.5% REITs (which makes sense if VISVX is around 17%). But all this is constantly subject to change, and the way to get a hard number is go to the latest filings in EDGAR and figure it out.


Pat Morgan gave the same number (~2.6%) as of 12/31/2006.

Here Pat shows how to get the % from EDGAR filings.

Edit: Corrected the link and added the 2nd link.
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Thanks cfs and BrianTH

Postby mcdave » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:42 pm

I may have to resort to this EDGAR search. I haven't visited there in ages. As I remember it was hard to use because of funny gov't formating requirements.

I have found a list of all the REIT's in SP500, 400, and 600. Found at
http://www.investinreits.com/waystoinve ... _index.cfm[url]

S&P 500 Index

    AIMCO AIV 3/13/2003
    Archstone-Smith ASN 12/17/2004
    AvalonBay Communities AVB To be announced
    Boston Properties BXP 3/31/2006
    Developers Diversified Realty Corporation DDR 3/20/2007
    Equity Residential EQR 11/1/2001
    Host Hotels & Resorts HST To be announced
    Kimco Realty Corporation KIM 4/3/2006
    Plum Creek Timber, Inc. PCL 1/16/2002
    ProLogis PLD 7/16/2003
    Public Storage, Inc. PSA 8/18/2005
    Simon Property Group SPG 6/25/2002
    Vornado Realty Trust VNO 8/11/2005

S&P 400 Mid Cap Index

    AMB Property Corporation AMB 1/27/2003
    Developers Diversified Realty Corp. DDR 9/30/2004
    Highwoods Properties, Inc. HIW 10/7/2003
    Hospitality Properties Trust HPT 10/1/2001
    Liberty Property Trust LRY 12/11/2002
    The Macerich Company MAC 7/1/2005
    Mack-Cali Realty Corporation CLI 3/19/2003
    New Plan NXL 10/1/2001
    Rayonier RYN Prior to REIT Status
    Regency Centers REG 4/25/2005
    United Dominion Realty Trust UDR 1/27/2003
    Weingarten Realty Investors WRI 11/10/2004

S&P 600 Small Cap Index

    Acadia Realty Trust AKR 5/25/2005
    Colonial Properties Trust CLP 10/1/2001
    EastGroup Properties, Inc. EGP 5/27/2005
    Entertainment Properties Trust EPR 6/3/2004
    Essex Property Trust ESS 4/24/2002
    Inland Real Estate Corporation IRC 10/2/2006
    Kilroy Realty Corporation KRC 10/1/2001
    Lexington Corporate Properties Trust LXP 9/4/2003
    LTC Properties, Inc. LTC 2/14/2006
    Medical Properties Trust MPW To be announced
    Mid-America Apartment Communities, Inc. MAA 8/22/2006
    New Century Financial Corporation NEW Prior to REIT Status
    Parkway Properties PKY 10/29/2004
    PS Business Parks, Inc. PSB 7/27/2006
    Senior Housing Propeties Trust SNH 8/22/2006
    Sovran Self Storage SSS 7/8/2004

Next step for me will to compare the holdings in each fund's annual report and calculate the percentage if I have to.

Thanks also to simba whose answer came in as I was writing this post. I searched at M* this afternoon but did not find those conversations. There were just too many!
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REIT in TSM

Postby CyberBob » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:21 pm

Edgar is kind of hard to use, but you can find the same information in the annual report.

According to the December 31, 2006 annual report, the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund (VTSMX) had $2,165,061,000 in REIT's. The fund had a total investment in stocks of $84,985,403,000.

So divide one by the other and we get 2.5476% REIT's.

Note, that is not including the cash in the fund. If you include that, the fund has net assets of $85,477,198,000, making REIT's 2.5329% of the fund.

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I did this once recently...

Postby dave.d » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:26 pm

I got approximately the same numbers posted by BrianTH above. Vanguard Value Index was about like the total market, roughly 2.5% REIT, because REIT's tend to be small. Vanguard Growth Index had substantially no REIT's at all. The number for Vanguard Small Cap Index should be 1/2 the number for Small Value.

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Already then

Postby cfs » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:36 pm

Thanks for the info, now we know the rest of the story.

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using Thrift Savings Plan funds

Postby FEDFERS » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:12 pm

FWIW, according to the 2005 TSP fund fact sheets, the C Fund is 0.7% REITS and the S Fund is 6.9% REITs. Since C + S/4 = TSM, 0.7 + 6.9/4 = 0.7 + 1.725 = 2.425% REITs. Close enough for government work.
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2.5% is close enough

Postby mcdave » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:44 am

2.5% of TSM is REIT is close enough! :!:

[/b]I spent some time trying to figure out the percentage in NAESX but Vanguard lists 1750 separate holdings (50 to a page) and no way to print it out! Bummer. SEC site is almost unusable for a beginner. I guess that is why some companies have made a nice business of cleaning up the governments mess! Ah Capitalism!
I will go through each page in the Vanguard holdings and add up the Total of REIT stocks when I get time.
:roll:
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Postby BrianTH » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:47 am

mcdave,

I don't actually know the percentage for NAESX, but given that you don't have a huge holding in NAESX, I think it would be safe to guesstimate its REIT holdings at around 8% (roughly half of the approximately 15-17% people have gotten for VISVX, as suggested by Dave as well).

So, given the numbers above, I have your 35% in VTSMX giving you about 0.875% in REITs, and your 8% in NAESX giving you about 0.64%. I'd call that about 1.5% total. So, to get 10% in REITs, I'd say you could target 8.5% in VGSIX to supplement your other equity holdings.
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