Bogleheads

[seashell]

Dear bogleheads,

I'm going to be away travelling for about six months, and will be leaving my house. I decided not to rent out my house, so besides the neighbors who are aware I'll be away and will "watch" the house, the house will be empty.

So, one thing occured to me, and I have heard different opinions and wanted to get your advice.

Is it better to turn off the water when going away? If so, do you "drain" out water from the pipes? How do you turn off an electric water heater (The circuit breaker is not marked, no on/off switch on the water heater). Is it necessary to turn off the water and turn off the electric water heater? Is there anything I should know or keep in mind? Any disadvantages in doing so?

I would love to hear your input and get your advice or any recommendations of good websites that talk about this? If I decide not to turn off the water, is there any danger in the water that "wasn't used" in the pipes and the water heater when I get back ie. bacteria buildup, etc?

I live in a climate where it goes below freezing in the winter, but I'm planning on leaving the house at 60 degrees.

Thanks all.

[JDCPAEsq]

Having two houses for ten years I became old hat at this. I've always turned off the water heater for about six months at each end. No problems whatsoever. You'd be crazy to leave it on, I think. I even turn it off when away from the house for a day or more. Just flip the circuit breaker. Also, for safety sake, I've always shut the main line of the water off. No need to drain the water heater. If there is any risk of freezing, you might drain the pipes and put anti-freeze in the traps and toilet tanks. That is what we did at our cabin where temperatures could approach zero in the winter. Left the heat at 50.
John

[jegallup]

No need to drain the pipes if you're going to keep the house at 60 degrees or more. No need to worry about bacteria, either, as I understand it, since it's a sealed system and air can't get in if everything's shut off.

I think there should be a local shutoff near the water heater, but am not sure about this. Follow the armored cable leading from the water heater back to the wall. If there's a box there with a lever in it, that's your shutoff.

An electric water heater should have a 240-volt circuit breaker in the breaker box--it's wider than the regular 120-volt breakers for outlets, lighting, etc. If you have an electric stove or dryer they'll have 240-volt breakers as well, to give you an idea what they look like. If you can't tell which is which, you could figure it out by process of elimination: turn off a breaker, see whether the stove and dryer work, then try another and another until you figure out which one is the water heater.

If that makes you nervous, call an electrician.

[JDCPAEsq]

[fishndoc]

I personally always turn off the water (where it enters my home, not just at the water heater) when I leave for an extended period.

Also, even though modern water heaters are supposed to have an automatic shut off if the water drains out, I would definitely cut it off as well. As mentioned above, it should have a 240 breaker. If you are in doubt, try flipping the breaker you think is the water heater when you go to bed - you should be able to tell if you were right when you take your morning shower.
_________________
" Successful investing involves doing just a few things right, and avoiding serious mistakes." - J. Bogle

[northend]

Most homes only have a few 240 circuits, electric range, dryer, water heater and electric furnace. Many times 240 circuit breakers will be two individual breakers tied together, often with a pin. Do a google search for a picture.

So it should be very easy to find the hot water circuit by flipping off a 240 circuit breaker and checking to see which one you turned off.

An electric water heater breaker should be 30 amps or greater. So you can probably ignore the 15 and 20 amp breakers in your panel box.

[tibbitts]

[Adrian Nenu]

Could be off topic but I always turn off my AC when I go to work (12 hour night shift). It saves about $30/month off my electric bill.

Adrian
anenu@tampabay.rr.com

[norookie]

JDCPAesq had my thoughts exactly.................. .

[jsl11]

The last time we went on vacation, I turned off the water at the meter. I also took a lot of ice cubes for my cooler. I had trouble with the ice maker in the refrigerator when we turned it back on. It seemed to be jammed. It had been trying to replenish the ice supply without water. The problem resolved itself after a couple of days. Nevertheless, in the future, if I turn off the water, I will turn off the icemaker as well.

Jeff

[blink32]

For a 6 month exodus it makes no sense to not shut the water heater and water off at the entry point to the house/meter and drain the lines/heater as best as possible when freezing is a possiblity. I'm not positive I would put anti-freeze in the traps but I would probably error on the site of caution and do it anyways. No telling if while you are away your home will lose electricity because of a storm or some freak accident. Then instead of just having a cold house you return to a series of busted pipes and fixtures. If your home is more than one story draining the lines is a no problem affair, with a single not so sure but I bet just opening all the showers and finding the lowest outside spigot would do just fine.

I wouldn't empty the water heater but at-least drain a few gallons to allow for expansion of ice in-case your home did lose heating. Call it your yearly maintenance of flushing the tank! All in all basically cost-free prevention of any serious issues. If you find your water heater is, for some reason, on a circuit you can't shut off set it to Vacation setting if it has one.

And definitely try your preferred method sans-antifreeze prior to departure day. Wouldn't be a good thing to delay your trip while repairing a busted valve or something else.

[Bernd]

When your water shutoff valves do not work, why not get them repaired by a plumber? It will cost you a little, but those are an important safety feature of a house. Then also find out where the outside house water shutoff valve is. At the same time get your water heater drained and checked for leaks.
I had both redundant inside water shutoff valves fixed, and the town installed the hand wheel and stem of the outside shutoff valve which they had buried under the front lawn 31 years ago.

[Trev H]

When leaving for extended period, vaction for example - I always turn off the breaker to my Water Heater, and set the heat/air at a low minimum (like 80 in summer, 60 in winter).

On draining the water pipes - what I do is this, where the main line comes into the home (in my case basement) I have a butterfly type shut off valve there, and I simply turn that off. Then open the kitchen and a bathroom sink valve for a little while to take the pressure off the lines.

We know a couple that went to Florida for 7 days once (mid summer), and when they arrived home a water leak had happened in kitchen sink area, flooded the house and also shut down their AC system. It really heated up in the house with no air on and the moisture filled the drywall overhead and a lot of it fell. It was a real mess.

Not what you want to return to after a vacation.

PS - Elec Hot Water Heaters are normally on a single/dedicated breaker. In my case it is a dual 30 amp breaker.

My Electric Range is on a dual 50.

My HVAC system is on a dual 60.

The circuits that are for misc, lights, ac outlets should be 20 or possibly 15 amp breakers.

[JDCPAEsq]

I should mention, the anti-freeze I use is the type approved for use in mobil homes, RV's, etc. and is safe for septic tanks. I wouldn't use auto anti-freeze.
John

[StoneReader]

Definitely turn the main water valve off when you leave. I had a toilet reservoir spontaneously crack while I was home once and caught it within an hour before it did any damage.

My sister had the same problem with a toilet reservoir when she was away for a weekend and it caused extensive damage to her house, piano, etc. which took 6 months to fix. The toilet reservoir kept filling and leaking through the crack.

Ceramic toilet reservoirs are brittle materials with stresses in them left from firing the glaze. When the top of the reservoir is removed or shifted, little scratches can form on the rim and these can slowly grow into cracks. When a tiny invisible crack gets to a critical size, it will propagate rapidly without warning.

At one time, you could buy plastic inserts for the reservoir so if the ceramic cracked, there would be no leak.

If I go away overnight, I always shut off the water.

[Chuck T]

We are fortunate enough to have a newer HWH (5 rs old). It has a vacation setting that we use when we are going to be away for a few days. the savings are greater than I would have imagined.
_________________
Chuck
Past Performance Is Just That - bob
For info on the SC LowCountry & Savannah GA Area Bogleheads contact me at chucktanner46@gmail.com

[badger]

We have a plumber drain the pipes in our vacation home. We are in the far north and if the furnace goes out, it doesn't take long for pipes to freeze. There are devices you can get that will alert people to a furnace failure, but we go with the pipe draining too.

[Daad]

Traveling away from home: We live in an area that reach 40 below zero I shut off the water at the house entrance, I shut off the Electricity to the hot water heater. Tank is in a room with floor drain if tank breaks, I have an outlet (use an interior wall not outside wall to plug in.) adapter set at 50 degrees (available at Radio Shack $10) with a light that will go on if house temp goes below setting. Neighbor can see the light from their kitchen window. I had a new natural gas furnace installed a year ago and the vertical exhaust stack was too cold (furnace set at 55 F) and furnace shut down. Light went on and neighbor called pre-arranged help. I have been advised to keep high efficient natural gas furnace at 60 degrees in order to keep the exhaust stack warm enough to keep flow working. I also unplug all adapters (fire hazard) Shut off ice maker (no water supplied). Clear exterior house down spouts from leaves so rain will not run over into basement window wells. Take knobs or handles off of exterior water outlets. (not a real problem with water shut off) But helps when I return and some one has opened the tap and I don't notice until water comes in. Our community has a volunteer program with the police dept and they put houses on "snow bird" watch list for casual exterior monitoring. I give a full set of keys to a trusted neighbor. Wishing safe travel.

[Jack]

If you are going to be gone for 6 months, you might also consider turning off your refrigerator. Remove all food and prop the doors open slightly to make sure no moisture becomes trapped inside.

[sewall]

Whenever I leave my home empty for more than a day or two I shut off the main water valve and open the faucets on the basement utility sink. This take 30 seconds to do. It drains all or most of the water out of the pipes, with the major exception of the HW heater itself. Thus, should any plumbing leak occur for any reason, there is a limit to how much damage it can do.

Reversing this also takes 30 seconds. For me it is a no-brainer.
_________________
The Incidental Economist (blog) :::: Austin Frakt (flesh)

[Eureka]

I would never leave my house for more than a day without turning off the water heater and water. The water heater is a money issue (why heat water when you are gone?). Turning off the water is a disaster-avoidance issue.

My parents had their finished basement flooded a few years back after a shutoff valve in a bathroom sink corroded through and leaked water for a week. Almost-new carpet had to be replaced.

I bought a freeze alarm a couple years ago that dials preset phone numbers if the temperature falls below a certain level. It worked for less than a year before it started to dial the numbers, even though the temp was fine.

I'd love to know if anyone has found a freeze alarm that works reliably.

[murphyjh]

Two things that can happen to your furnace:

1. When the batteries in my setbck thermostat died, the furnace stayed off. Fortunately I was home at the time. I believe that, because of the magnetic holding relays that they use, it could as easily have stayed on. I replaced that thermostat with a line-powered unit.

2. My cousin went on a two-week vacation many years ago (before battery powered thermostats) and returned to find her house was blistering hot, all of her wallpaper was on the floor, and a lot of furniture had come apart. The gas valve in her furnace had stuck on.

I believe there is a house monitoring device availabe that will phone a neighbor, or you if you know what your phone number will be, if the temperature gets too high or too low.

[czeckers]

If there is any chance of having below-freezing temps while you are away, then I would definitely turn off power to the hot water heater and drain it completely as well as all of the house plumbing. The drain spigot on the heater is often the lowest spigot in the house so is ideally suited for draining the house any way.

Leaving the heater on for 6 months without use would simply be a waste of money. There is always the risk of the furnace failing or a power outage that could cause pipes to freeze. Even though the risk is remote, the damage could be catastrophic. Imagine a broken pipe/valve running into your house non-stop for two months while you are away. By draining the house, you waste 50 or so gallons of water, spend a few bucks on antifreeze, but in my opinion, that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Turning off the fridge and leaving the door open is also good idea. It can otherwise get quite moldy inside. This also takes care of the ice maker issue mentioned above.

If you have a sump pump, make sure you don't turn off the power to that.

Happy traveling!

-K
_________________
16% US LCB, 16% US SCV, 16% US REIT, 16% Developed Int'l, 16% EM, 10% Inter-term US Treasury, 10% TIPS

"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."

[OAG]

"If you have a sump pump, make sure you don't turn off the power to that."


And consider a Battery Backed up Sump Pump (which piggybacks on the current AC one). Lowes and HD have them - just be sure to maintain the battery for that one.
_________________
OAG=Old Army Guy. Retired from USA (US Army) in 1979.

[praxis]

We are very satisfied with our gas tankless water heaters. They provide limitless hot water on demand. No cost if we're not using them. We installed two that have been trouble-free for 4 winters in our cabin which is at 9000 ft . Tankless heaters have been used for decades in Asia, Europe and S Am. Many brands sold in US are those using Japan patents, I found. Ours is a Rinnai. I replaced our aging tank heater at home after trying the cabin heaters for a couple years. Cabin must be winterized carefully due to remoteness and frequent subzero temps for weeks and power outages. We follow most of the ideas above. Drain all pipes and add some RV antifrz to toilets and traps undersinks. Close main water valve to house. I wanted to shut off furnace, but contractor and plumber wouldn't think of it due to damage to materials in house, they said. Severe cold, difference in expansion would cause lots of cracks.

We leave furnace at lowest (about 40) and plug in the FreezeAlarm ordered from Canada on internet 3 seasons ago. Mine has worked fine and calls either of my home numbers (usually at 2am) if power goes out or temp goes below setting I program. I can reset or reprogram settings by phone. Then I call power company and report outage or a backup friend that can drive over if furnace needs service or the phone unit goes on the frtiz, but it has worked well if I use a fresh backup battery each season. But if pipes are drained, there isn't such a rush to get power back on. Maybe enjoy your vacation more if most potential calamities are covered.

[Cherokee8215]

[pshonore]

How many folks turn off the supply valves to their washing machines after use? Burst supply hoses are a MAJOR cause of water damage. I believe there is a new device that is plugged into the same electrical outlet as the washing machine. If the washer is not drawing power, the valves to the supply hoses will not open. Obviously some plumbing modifications and new valves are necessary. I'm surprised no one makes a valve that goes on your main water supply line with a timer to shut off after a certain interval, say 15 minutes of continual flow, and reset if flow stops if < 15 minutes. Might be a problem if watering the lawn or kids taking a long shower (actually, that might be a good thing)

[Cherokee8215]

[Valuethinker]

[jsl11]

[Eureka]

[praxis]

[Eureka]

[praxis]