Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Locked
Topic Author
PhillyPhan
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:35 am

Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by PhillyPhan »

00000
Last edited by PhillyPhan on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
aja8888
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:28 pm
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by aja8888 »

Send her to The Woodlands, Texas and she will fit in just fine.....you should stay in Philly... :wink:
mptfan
Posts: 7201
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by mptfan »

PhillyPhan wrote:I mean I do enjoy our time together but I am a little worried that our habits and preferences will cause turmoil down the road.
My thoughts are that you have good reason to be worried. If you are very far apart on your spending habits, then it will continue to cause problems in your relationship.
User avatar
Mrs.Feeley
Posts: 830
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:52 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Mrs.Feeley »

A more important question: Do you both love each other? Do both find the thought of going through life without the other utterly absolutely unbearable? Will you both do whatever it takes to make the other happy and to make your life together work? If the answer is yes to all of the above then of course it will work. :D

Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
icefr
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:50 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by icefr »

My boyfriend and I have some different ideas about spending, but we both LBYM and prioritize saving overall. I've educated him about 401(k)s, health savings accounts, the existence of the Roth IRA, and many other things. The difference in us isn't in our financial or long-term ideas but in our personalities. I'm more cautious, he's more impulsive. That reflects in how we spend our money. I think that, somewhat, we end up meeting somewhere in the middle. He would go out for breakfast, coffee, lunch, and dinner every day of the week, but I've convinced him that cooking isn't *so* bad, coffee at home is more convenient, and compromised to going out or doing takeout food once or twice a week for dinner. It took him a while to come around on some of these things, but he does now see the value in eating breakfast and drinking coffee in his pyjamas.

It's quite possible that your girlfriend falls into one of the following statements:
(1) She doesn't know that she's living above her means.
(2) She has an impulsive personality and needs to be coached to think more about the future.
(3) Her friends are not frugal and yours are. That makes a huge difference in your habits.
(4) She is more outgoing than you. It *can* be harder for more outgoing people to spend less since they like to socialize outside of the house and that seems to require spending money to many people.
(5) For all you know, she saved up for that Cartier handbag for months and/or years and she'll keep that Mercedes car for many years to come.

How long have you two been dating? Have you talked to her about these things at all? Does she have a budget? Does she save for retirement?
mac808
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by mac808 »

If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?
reggiesimpson
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:47 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by reggiesimpson »

Primary reason for marital discord? Money. To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Move on.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by VictoriaF »

mac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means...
LBYM = live below your means
LBYM = live beyond your means

What a versatile acronym!

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
lightheir
Posts: 2684
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by lightheir »

mac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?
I can't even begin to tell you how many men and women in their 30s I know (and am friends with) who absolutely can't live within their means. They are so resistant that even when I suggest that they track most of their expenses for a few weeks just to get a clue of where their money is going for the most part, they give me a firm, unavowed "no, that's IMPOSSIBLE!" answer. Crazy.
RobG
Posts: 1265
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:59 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by RobG »

Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces. :sharebeer
Stay thrifty my friends.
User avatar
Petrocelli
Posts: 2966
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:29 pm
Location: Fenway Park, between 2nd and 3rd base

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Petrocelli »

Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by chaz »

Petrocelli wrote:Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.
Amen.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
2b2
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:21 am
Location: Location: Location:

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by 2b2 »

Also, don't forget the most important consideration in a boglehead/non-boglehead mixed marriage :

How will the children be raised ?

2b2
tim1999
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:16 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by tim1999 »

PhillyPhan wrote:00000
Why'd ya delete that? Got worried that she might really be a Boglehead in disguise and read your post?
User avatar
gasman
Posts: 913
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:13 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by gasman »

Took a few years, but I got her to convert.
User avatar
William4u
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by William4u »

Mrs.Feeley wrote:Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
+1 Those pre-marriage classes can be great.
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 6867
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by beyou »

Of course you can marry...the question is if you can stay married.

Either one will change the other's behavior, maybe a bit of both,
or you will give up and move on.

Of course one might argue that dating is a non Boglehead thing to do...
I mean you are going to eat out at those frivolous restaurant prices ?
Go to frivolous movies ? And if both are bogleheads at a tender young
age, what is dating ? Sit home and watch netflix with no cable tv ?
Sounds like starting off as an old married couple from day 1.

A great deal to think about ...
sschullo
Posts: 2839
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Long Beach, CA
Contact:

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by sschullo »

The Boglehead or not a boglehead is not the problem. I am married to a once-upon-a-time non boglehead. We had some lively debates when I turned a few years before him to a boglehead. He has now converted about 90%. He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps. But we eschew individual stocks, little trading, diversified portfolio, etc etc. Everything else we agree.

Regarding the frugality vs non frugality. For 38 years we were both frugal big time. So IMHO, forget expecting somebody else to change. A spend thrift and a frugal divergent couple will have serious issues when the bills come due with stress and no future, living from paycheck to paycheck is no future.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
tim1999
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:16 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by tim1999 »

sschullo wrote:He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps.
Sounds like a cheap ER on a good marriage to me.
sdrone
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by sdrone »

Absolutely. Now, my wife is not a big spender; we both spend within our means.

But she will not, no matter how much I work it, take input from me on her investments. She's a stay at home mom now, but still has a 401k and stock account from pre-marriage, and we contribute to a Roth IRA for her.

The funny thing is, this solidifies the idea of a "Random Walk Down Wall Street." Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that). Her investments beat mine (3 fund portfolio with some small cap tilt) something like 50% of the time. But she never checks them, so she never knows if they are getting destroyed. I've had to gently remind her to get rid of stocks that are pieces of crap.

But the big thing is that we didn't get married until our 30s, and we had established patterns of spending within our means and saving money for the long term.
davebo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:02 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by davebo »

My wife does not think about finances at all, but she is naturally more frugal than the average person. I don't really care if she knows much about investments or whatever as long as we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.
sschullo
Posts: 2839
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Long Beach, CA
Contact:

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by sschullo »

davebo wrote:...we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.
+1
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
User avatar
Ozonewanderer
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:27 am
Location: Southwest FL

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Ozonewanderer »

PhillyPhan wrote:00000
How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200... :mrgreen:
sschullo
Posts: 2839
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Long Beach, CA
Contact:

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by sschullo »

Ozonewanderer wrote:
PhillyPhan wrote:00000
How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200... :mrgreen:
:) Similiar comments made by new people to AA? How in the world is it possible for sober people to have fun?
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
User avatar
LazyNihilist
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by LazyNihilist »

sdrone wrote:Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that).
I heard people buying stocks after listening to CNBC, but the Today show? :shock:
The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must -Thucydides
yeledbed
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:22 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by yeledbed »

Of course you can date and get married... and then you can get divorced. Best of luck to you! :happy
wander
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by wander »

sdrone wrote:Absolutely.
+1.
You always have time to decide if you want to get married.
protagonist
Posts: 9242
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by protagonist »

This song was recorded by the Beatles in July,1963: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_(That's_What_I_Want)

A mere six months later, in January, 1964, they did an about-face and recorded this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Buy_Me_Love

Apparently the young Lennon and McCartney were struggling with the same sort of questions. You are not alone. You'll sort it out.
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Wasn't there a Supreme Court case about that back in the '60s, which determined mixed couples can do as they please?
PJW
Van
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Van »

A truly frugal Boglehead would rarely date and never marry.
lws6772
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:14 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by lws6772 »

Yes, you can, but it will be frustrating and then there's the divorce thing. :moneybag
User avatar
serbeer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:09 pm

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by serbeer »

Sure. I married non-Boglehead for example.
But she was frugal nonetheless.
I do all the Bogleheadish investment management in our family :)

Bogleheadism can be learned and even intuited but frugality is a basic character trait, so it is much more important to look for one that has it.
Levett
Posts: 4177
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: upper Midwest

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by Levett »

"Send her to The Woodlands, Texas"

Cripes. The choice between the Woodlands and Philly is a no-brainer.

Woodlands in a heartbeat. 8-)

Lev
stonerolled
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:16 am

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by stonerolled »

RobG wrote:Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces. :sharebeer
I think you need extra parenthesis (P*(1+r)^N)/(2^D) not sure about order of operations but putting the exponential divorce factor in the denominator is a killer.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95466
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is off-topic (general comment) and is locked. See: Forum Policy
Note that topics must be directly connected to your (or your friend's or family's) life as a consumer. General comments or complaints about these topics will be removed.

Note that this subforum has a much lower threshold for locking or removing posts than the financial and investing subforums. In general, controversial, offensive, pointless, divisive or mean-spirited posts or topics may be locked, edited or deleted (with or without notice) at the discretion of the moderating staff even if they do not otherwise violate forum policies.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Locked