Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
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Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
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Last edited by PhillyPhan on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Send her to The Woodlands, Texas and she will fit in just fine.....you should stay in Philly...
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
My thoughts are that you have good reason to be worried. If you are very far apart on your spending habits, then it will continue to cause problems in your relationship.PhillyPhan wrote:I mean I do enjoy our time together but I am a little worried that our habits and preferences will cause turmoil down the road.
- Mrs.Feeley
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
A more important question: Do you both love each other? Do both find the thought of going through life without the other utterly absolutely unbearable? Will you both do whatever it takes to make the other happy and to make your life together work? If the answer is yes to all of the above then of course it will work.
Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
My boyfriend and I have some different ideas about spending, but we both LBYM and prioritize saving overall. I've educated him about 401(k)s, health savings accounts, the existence of the Roth IRA, and many other things. The difference in us isn't in our financial or long-term ideas but in our personalities. I'm more cautious, he's more impulsive. That reflects in how we spend our money. I think that, somewhat, we end up meeting somewhere in the middle. He would go out for breakfast, coffee, lunch, and dinner every day of the week, but I've convinced him that cooking isn't *so* bad, coffee at home is more convenient, and compromised to going out or doing takeout food once or twice a week for dinner. It took him a while to come around on some of these things, but he does now see the value in eating breakfast and drinking coffee in his pyjamas.
It's quite possible that your girlfriend falls into one of the following statements:
(1) She doesn't know that she's living above her means.
(2) She has an impulsive personality and needs to be coached to think more about the future.
(3) Her friends are not frugal and yours are. That makes a huge difference in your habits.
(4) She is more outgoing than you. It *can* be harder for more outgoing people to spend less since they like to socialize outside of the house and that seems to require spending money to many people.
(5) For all you know, she saved up for that Cartier handbag for months and/or years and she'll keep that Mercedes car for many years to come.
How long have you two been dating? Have you talked to her about these things at all? Does she have a budget? Does she save for retirement?
It's quite possible that your girlfriend falls into one of the following statements:
(1) She doesn't know that she's living above her means.
(2) She has an impulsive personality and needs to be coached to think more about the future.
(3) Her friends are not frugal and yours are. That makes a huge difference in your habits.
(4) She is more outgoing than you. It *can* be harder for more outgoing people to spend less since they like to socialize outside of the house and that seems to require spending money to many people.
(5) For all you know, she saved up for that Cartier handbag for months and/or years and she'll keep that Mercedes car for many years to come.
How long have you two been dating? Have you talked to her about these things at all? Does she have a budget? Does she save for retirement?
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Primary reason for marital discord? Money. To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Move on.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
LBYM = live below your meansmac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means...
LBYM = live beyond your means
What a versatile acronym!
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
I can't even begin to tell you how many men and women in their 30s I know (and am friends with) who absolutely can't live within their means. They are so resistant that even when I suggest that they track most of their expenses for a few weeks just to get a clue of where their money is going for the most part, they give me a firm, unavowed "no, that's IMPOSSIBLE!" answer. Crazy.mac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces.
Stay thrifty my friends.
- Petrocelli
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Amen.Petrocelli wrote:Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.
Chaz |
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“Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen |
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http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Also, don't forget the most important consideration in a boglehead/non-boglehead mixed marriage :
How will the children be raised ?
2b2
How will the children be raised ?
2b2
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Why'd ya delete that? Got worried that she might really be a Boglehead in disguise and read your post?PhillyPhan wrote:00000
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Took a few years, but I got her to convert.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
+1 Those pre-marriage classes can be great.Mrs.Feeley wrote:Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Of course you can marry...the question is if you can stay married.
Either one will change the other's behavior, maybe a bit of both,
or you will give up and move on.
Of course one might argue that dating is a non Boglehead thing to do...
I mean you are going to eat out at those frivolous restaurant prices ?
Go to frivolous movies ? And if both are bogleheads at a tender young
age, what is dating ? Sit home and watch netflix with no cable tv ?
Sounds like starting off as an old married couple from day 1.
A great deal to think about ...
Either one will change the other's behavior, maybe a bit of both,
or you will give up and move on.
Of course one might argue that dating is a non Boglehead thing to do...
I mean you are going to eat out at those frivolous restaurant prices ?
Go to frivolous movies ? And if both are bogleheads at a tender young
age, what is dating ? Sit home and watch netflix with no cable tv ?
Sounds like starting off as an old married couple from day 1.
A great deal to think about ...
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
The Boglehead or not a boglehead is not the problem. I am married to a once-upon-a-time non boglehead. We had some lively debates when I turned a few years before him to a boglehead. He has now converted about 90%. He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps. But we eschew individual stocks, little trading, diversified portfolio, etc etc. Everything else we agree.
Regarding the frugality vs non frugality. For 38 years we were both frugal big time. So IMHO, forget expecting somebody else to change. A spend thrift and a frugal divergent couple will have serious issues when the bills come due with stress and no future, living from paycheck to paycheck is no future.
Regarding the frugality vs non frugality. For 38 years we were both frugal big time. So IMHO, forget expecting somebody else to change. A spend thrift and a frugal divergent couple will have serious issues when the bills come due with stress and no future, living from paycheck to paycheck is no future.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Sounds like a cheap ER on a good marriage to me.sschullo wrote:He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Absolutely. Now, my wife is not a big spender; we both spend within our means.
But she will not, no matter how much I work it, take input from me on her investments. She's a stay at home mom now, but still has a 401k and stock account from pre-marriage, and we contribute to a Roth IRA for her.
The funny thing is, this solidifies the idea of a "Random Walk Down Wall Street." Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that). Her investments beat mine (3 fund portfolio with some small cap tilt) something like 50% of the time. But she never checks them, so she never knows if they are getting destroyed. I've had to gently remind her to get rid of stocks that are pieces of crap.
But the big thing is that we didn't get married until our 30s, and we had established patterns of spending within our means and saving money for the long term.
But she will not, no matter how much I work it, take input from me on her investments. She's a stay at home mom now, but still has a 401k and stock account from pre-marriage, and we contribute to a Roth IRA for her.
The funny thing is, this solidifies the idea of a "Random Walk Down Wall Street." Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that). Her investments beat mine (3 fund portfolio with some small cap tilt) something like 50% of the time. But she never checks them, so she never knows if they are getting destroyed. I've had to gently remind her to get rid of stocks that are pieces of crap.
But the big thing is that we didn't get married until our 30s, and we had established patterns of spending within our means and saving money for the long term.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
My wife does not think about finances at all, but she is naturally more frugal than the average person. I don't really care if she knows much about investments or whatever as long as we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
+1davebo wrote:...we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
- Ozonewanderer
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200...PhillyPhan wrote:00000
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Similiar comments made by new people to AA? How in the world is it possible for sober people to have fun?Ozonewanderer wrote:How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200...PhillyPhan wrote:00000
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
- LazyNihilist
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
I heard people buying stocks after listening to CNBC, but the Today show?sdrone wrote:Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that).
The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must -Thucydides
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Of course you can date and get married... and then you can get divorced. Best of luck to you!
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
+1.sdrone wrote:Absolutely.
You always have time to decide if you want to get married.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
This song was recorded by the Beatles in July,1963: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_(That's_What_I_Want)
A mere six months later, in January, 1964, they did an about-face and recorded this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Buy_Me_Love
Apparently the young Lennon and McCartney were struggling with the same sort of questions. You are not alone. You'll sort it out.
A mere six months later, in January, 1964, they did an about-face and recorded this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Buy_Me_Love
Apparently the young Lennon and McCartney were struggling with the same sort of questions. You are not alone. You'll sort it out.
- Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Wasn't there a Supreme Court case about that back in the '60s, which determined mixed couples can do as they please?
PJW
PJW
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
A truly frugal Boglehead would rarely date and never marry.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Yes, you can, but it will be frustrating and then there's the divorce thing.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
Sure. I married non-Boglehead for example.
But she was frugal nonetheless.
I do all the Bogleheadish investment management in our family
Bogleheadism can be learned and even intuited but frugality is a basic character trait, so it is much more important to look for one that has it.
But she was frugal nonetheless.
I do all the Bogleheadish investment management in our family
Bogleheadism can be learned and even intuited but frugality is a basic character trait, so it is much more important to look for one that has it.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
"Send her to The Woodlands, Texas"
Cripes. The choice between the Woodlands and Philly is a no-brainer.
Woodlands in a heartbeat.
Lev
Cripes. The choice between the Woodlands and Philly is a no-brainer.
Woodlands in a heartbeat.
Lev
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
I think you need extra parenthesis (P*(1+r)^N)/(2^D) not sure about order of operations but putting the exponential divorce factor in the denominator is a killer.RobG wrote:Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces.
Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?
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