Primer or Paint with Primer?

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Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby pennstater2005 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:49 pm

I am looking to paint my stairs. I considered having them sanded/stained by a professional who did our floors but am going to save the expense for now. I already bought stair treads on Amazon for them about a year ago and might as well use them. We have a 1 year old who is starting to climb them and they're slippery without anything on them. So, my actual question is should I use primer and then paint them or use the primer/paint all in one. I've never used the primer/paint in one before and am not sure of it's quality/effectiveness. Help :confused
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby ProfessorX » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:54 pm

Paint with primer, as long as its good paint.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby pennstater2005 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:58 pm

ProfessorX wrote:Paint with primer, as long as its good paint.


Any thoughts on brands?
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby ProfessorX » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 pm

I like Sherwin Williams personally.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby NAVigator » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:50 pm

This post made me curious. I found this primer about paint primer informative; Painting: How to Choose and Use Primers

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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby 6miths » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:52 pm

Home Depot's Behr brand comes in either type and is consistently very highly rated in testing by Consumer Reports.

Full Disclosure: I just bought 3 gallons today as it turns out.

Actually after checking the CR site I found that Clark + Kensington Satin Enamel (Ace Hardware) was the highest rated paint and was competitively priced. The Behr Premium Plus Ultra was also a CR choice but the Glidden Premium Satin also sold at Home Depot was rated as the 'Best Buy'.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby pennstater2005 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:07 pm

NAVigator wrote:This post made me curious. I found this primer about paint primer informative; Painting: How to Choose and Use Primers

Jerry


I clicked the link and found a thing called stain blocking primer. Never heard of it but it sounds like I something I might use. The steps are currently stained and I know it would take a lot of coats of primer/paint to cover the stain. We painted over stained wood upstairs and it kept coming through. Thanks for the link.

6miths wrote:Home Depot's Behr brand comes in either type and is consistently very highly rated in testing by Consumer Reports.

Full Disclosure: I just bought 3 gallons today as it turns out.

Actually after checking the CR site I found that Clark + Kensington Satin Enamel (Ace Hardware) was the highest rated paint and was competitively priced. The Behr Premium Plus Ultra was also a CR choice but the Glidden Premium Satin also sold at Home Depot was rated as the 'Best Buy'.


Thanks for the research. I've got some thinking to do.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby jsl11 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:10 pm

I've never used it, but there is a primer called "Kilz" that is supposed to seal in previous stains.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby 6miths » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:16 pm

I've used Kilz on the interior side of exterior cladding that was badly mildewed. It seemed to seal quite well and I left it open for about 6 months to cure and see how it would do before I replaced the insulation and closed it back in. I had cleaned it up very aggressively and fixed the problems outside before I painted it with the Kilz. Stairs are quite a challenge I find and I would definitely be getting some advice from the pros before going at them.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby pennstater2005 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:04 pm

6miths wrote:I've used Kilz on the interior side of exterior cladding that was badly mildewed. It seemed to seal quite well and I left it open for about 6 months to cure and see how it would do before I replaced the insulation and closed it back in. I had cleaned it up very aggressively and fixed the problems outside before I painted it with the Kilz. Stairs are quite a challenge I find and I would definitely be getting some advice from the pros before going at them.


What kind of advice? My plan was to just rough up the wood with sandpaper and then prime and paint.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby lindisfarne » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:10 pm

You should do some reading at http://www.diychatroom.com/
& then ask the question over there, if you haven't gotten an answer. A lot of professionals contribute to that board.
Many professionals disagree with CR's evaluation of Behr paints, and some will argue that there are problems with consistency in quality.
That being said, it's for indoor usage, so you can probably get buy with almost any paint. Proper preparation is more important than painting, if you don't want paint flaking off, etc. down the road.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby EHoops » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 pm

We love the Behr's with primer (Ultra, I think) and have used it several times. Great stuff. I cannot remember which finish we chose but we asked because we have kids and they suggested a particular finish.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby Mrs.Feeley » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:01 am

lindisfarne wrote:You should do some reading at http://www.diychatroom.com/
& then ask the question over there, if you haven't gotten an answer. A lot of professionals contribute to that board.
Many professionals disagree with CR's evaluation of Behr paints, and some will argue that there are problems with consistency in quality.


This is good advice. The diychatroom is great and a definite place to check out paints.

I and various friends have used Behr based on the CR recommendation and we've all had good luck with it. However if you google reviews of it a lot of people report that they found it to be runny and generally inferior. I think a lot depends upon the local company that mixes it for Behr.

I've had good results with Glidden and Sherman Williams paints. Benjamin Moore is good but way overpriced.

I ran into a bad situation with Ace Hardware's cabinet and woodwork paint which required a ghastly three weeks to dry. I would have found out about that ghastly dry-time had I checked it out ahead of time in diychatroom.

I've used Kilz quite a bit, but it doesn't cover up all stains. I think it's geared for water stains. A paint store employee recommended to me bonding primer when I wanted to paint over stained wood. Bonding primer is very thick and gluey. I don't know whether it would be appropriate in your situation OP. Don't know the pros and cons of it. You should check it out in diychatroom and some of the other home improvement sites with discussion areas.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:27 am

I've used Behr's with primer and primer plus Behr's paint. I would go with the latter, primer plus Behr's - have had much better results using the two step process. The paint plus primer didn't seem to have the same consistency of the two step process. Still, found the Behr's to be of very good quality, Benjamin Moore is good paint, but very pricey.

Behr's is made by Valspar of Minnesota.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby JustBill » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:45 am

You seem to be referencing a walking surface. None of the previously noted products are well-suited candidates to provide suitable long-term service to this type of area. You should evaluate a porch and floor or floor and deck product and follow label directions for appropriate primer for your situation. Keep in mind that any painted or coated surface will be more slick than unpainted, particularly if damp, and more so to an extent the glossier finish you select. California Paints Allflor and Benjamin Moore's Latex Floor and Patio are both excellent performers to review.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby Christine_NM » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:10 am

Marine/boat paint is good for stairs (high traffic area) as well as porch/deck paint. Consider flame retardant sealer.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby czeckers » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:07 am

I would not use paint on stairs. It will not hold up to the wear and tear of people going up and down the stairs and will eventually start to chip. If you are looking to alter the color, stain is the appropriate way to do it. If you are looking for traction, there are special adhesive strips with a rough surface that you can attach. However with small children, I recommend carpeting the stairs -- it cushions the fall when someone invariably takes a tumble.

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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby petrico » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:36 am

I agree with others that a paint intended to be walked on is what you need. (I'm partial to Benjamin Moore products, and rationalize the cost difference by considering the "labor capital" involved.) That dedicated purpose paint should identify the best preparation methods right on the can.

That said, in the absence of specific instructions from the manufacturer otherwise, I'd use an oil-based primer with it. I have never (ever) had as much success with any other type of primer as a good, oil-based primer. It's great for either latex or oil-based top coats. The last time I was in a paint store in CT, they made it sound like the ability to get oil based primer (or paint in general) was drawing to a close. Other states have already banned the sale of oil-based primer. That would terrible, IMHO. I'd attempt to get it mail order if I couldn't find it locally -- it's been that good.

Also, you are on the right track in preparing the existing surface by roughening it up, but there is a little more at stake. You have to make sure there are no wax or oil residues on the stairs. I've even heard that Murphy's Oil Soap can cause problems for subsequent re-finishing.

@lindisfarne: thanks for the diychatroom link! I've bookmarked it.

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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby johnep » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:58 am

pennstater2005 wrote:
NAVigator wrote:This post made me curious. I found this primer about paint primer informative; Painting: How to Choose and Use Primers

Jerry


I clicked the link and found a thing called stain blocking primer. Never heard of it but it sounds like I something I might use. The steps are currently stained and I know it would take a lot of coats of primer/paint to cover the stain. We painted over stained wood upstairs and it kept coming through. Thanks for the link.

[quote="6miths"]

I have recently refinished several wood stained doors and a large pantry. Previously I painted over a stained wood door and the paint did not bond properly. All the research and the paint store people tell me to use an oil based primer before applying paint. You can get primer from Kilz intended to cover dark colors. Lightly sand before applying primer (also between coats for best results). It you have dark stained floor it will take at least 2 coats of finish paint. I prefer rollers to brushes for the finish coat but that is a personal preference. You can get rollers specific to wood.

I am dubious about using a paint + primer product for this application. The folks at Lowes were not high on their product for that purpose. Given the labor involved, I would go with the tried and true method. Best wishes.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby BigFoot48 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:30 am

You might want to check out the March 2013 issue of Consumers Reports as they have a review on interior paints. Behr, which I use, continues to be highly rated in the various categories (semi-gloss, flat, etc) but there's a surprising new #1 in Satin and Semi-Gloss: Ace Hardware's Clark-Kensington. They were giving away quarts of this a few months ago and I got one, and it worked just fine.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby cleosdad » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:13 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I've used Behr's with primer and primer plus Behr's paint. I would go with the latter, primer plus Behr's - have had much better results using the two step process. The paint plus primer didn't seem to have the same consistency of the two step process. Still, found the Behr's to be of very good quality, Benjamin Moore is good paint, but very pricey.

Behr's is made by Valspar of Minnesota.

I believe that is incorrect. Valspar bought out Cabot but Masko? makes Behr I do believe for H.D.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:01 pm

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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby leo383 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:30 pm

I sold paint part time for a number of years for Sears. There are only a handful of paint makers in the US who make all of the major brand name paints.

I suggest roughing up the surface, priming with an oil or latex primer, and painting using paint that is specifically for floors.
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby molesky » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:24 pm

Hello, pennstater2005! My sister-in-law is in the same situation as you. My recommendation to her was to buy a long carpet runner made specifically for stairs. If you are intent on painting the stairs first and then attaching your stair treads in the "walking zone", I would use Zinsser's Bullseye 1-2-3 water base primer followed by two coats of a good quality, semi-gloss acrylic latex interior paint from Benjamin Moore or Sherwin-Williams (ask for a product recommendation other than their highest quality paint which is too expensive and not cost-effective).
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Re: Primer or Paint with Primer?

Postby pennstater2005 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Thanks for all the recommendations. It seems most are thinking an oil based primer and paint that is specifically made for floors or surfaces to be walked on. I honestly had thought of neither of those. I think I'll rough the steps first with sandpaper, then apply 1-2 coats of an oil based primer, paint them white with floor paint, and apply the treads we already have purchased. Thanks again everybody!
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