Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

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Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby PhillyPhan » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:52 am

00000
Last edited by PhillyPhan on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby aja8888 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:02 am

Send her to The Woodlands, Texas and she will fit in just fine.....you should stay in Philly... :wink:
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby mptfan » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:01 am

PhillyPhan wrote:I mean I do enjoy our time together but I am a little worried that our habits and preferences will cause turmoil down the road.

My thoughts are that you have good reason to be worried. If you are very far apart on your spending habits, then it will continue to cause problems in your relationship.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Mrs.Feeley » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:09 am

A more important question: Do you both love each other? Do both find the thought of going through life without the other utterly absolutely unbearable? Will you both do whatever it takes to make the other happy and to make your life together work? If the answer is yes to all of the above then of course it will work. :D

Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby icefr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:19 am

My boyfriend and I have some different ideas about spending, but we both LBYM and prioritize saving overall. I've educated him about 401(k)s, health savings accounts, the existence of the Roth IRA, and many other things. The difference in us isn't in our financial or long-term ideas but in our personalities. I'm more cautious, he's more impulsive. That reflects in how we spend our money. I think that, somewhat, we end up meeting somewhere in the middle. He would go out for breakfast, coffee, lunch, and dinner every day of the week, but I've convinced him that cooking isn't *so* bad, coffee at home is more convenient, and compromised to going out or doing takeout food once or twice a week for dinner. It took him a while to come around on some of these things, but he does now see the value in eating breakfast and drinking coffee in his pyjamas.

It's quite possible that your girlfriend falls into one of the following statements:
(1) She doesn't know that she's living above her means.
(2) She has an impulsive personality and needs to be coached to think more about the future.
(3) Her friends are not frugal and yours are. That makes a huge difference in your habits.
(4) She is more outgoing than you. It *can* be harder for more outgoing people to spend less since they like to socialize outside of the house and that seems to require spending money to many people.
(5) For all you know, she saved up for that Cartier handbag for months and/or years and she'll keep that Mercedes car for many years to come.

How long have you two been dating? Have you talked to her about these things at all? Does she have a budget? Does she save for retirement?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby mac808 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:25 am

If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby reggiesimpson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:12 pm

Primary reason for marital discord? Money. To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Move on.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby VictoriaF » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:15 pm

mac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means...

LBYM = live below your means
LBYM = live beyond your means

What a versatile acronym!

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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby lightheir » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:29 pm

mac808 wrote:If she's living beyond her means, how's she paying the bills currently? Parents? Credit cards?


I can't even begin to tell you how many men and women in their 30s I know (and am friends with) who absolutely can't live within their means. They are so resistant that even when I suggest that they track most of their expenses for a few weeks just to get a clue of where their money is going for the most part, they give me a firm, unavowed "no, that's IMPOSSIBLE!" answer. Crazy.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby RobG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:47 pm

Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces. :sharebeer
Stay thrifty my friends.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Petrocelli » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:23 pm

Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby chaz » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:43 pm

Petrocelli wrote:Only if the non-boglehead has a lot of dough.

Amen.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby 2b2 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:51 pm

Also, don't forget the most important consideration in a boglehead/non-boglehead mixed marriage :

How will the children be raised ?

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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Cherokee8215 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:01 pm

PhillyPhan wrote:00000


Why'd ya delete that? Got worried that she might really be a Boglehead in disguise and read your post?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby gasman » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:26 pm

Took a few years, but I got her to convert.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby William4u » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:30 pm

Mrs.Feeley wrote:Don't know if you belong to a church, but some offer pre-marriage classes in which a couple discusses, both privately and with a counselor, their finances, their values related to financial decisions, and how they will manage money in marraige. That can be a great opportunity to discuss differences and concerns in a non-confrontational atmosphere.


+1 Those pre-marriage classes can be great.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby blevine » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:56 pm

Of course you can marry...the question is if you can stay married.

Either one will change the other's behavior, maybe a bit of both,
or you will give up and move on.

Of course one might argue that dating is a non Boglehead thing to do...
I mean you are going to eat out at those frivolous restaurant prices ?
Go to frivolous movies ? And if both are bogleheads at a tender young
age, what is dating ? Sit home and watch netflix with no cable tv ?
Sounds like starting off as an old married couple from day 1.

A great deal to think about ...
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby sschullo » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:39 am

The Boglehead or not a boglehead is not the problem. I am married to a once-upon-a-time non boglehead. We had some lively debates when I turned a few years before him to a boglehead. He has now converted about 90%. He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps. But we eschew individual stocks, little trading, diversified portfolio, etc etc. Everything else we agree.

Regarding the frugality vs non frugality. For 38 years we were both frugal big time. So IMHO, forget expecting somebody else to change. A spend thrift and a frugal divergent couple will have serious issues when the bills come due with stress and no future, living from paycheck to paycheck is no future.
“It’s what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.” - John Wooden
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Cherokee8215 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:11 am

sschullo wrote:He still loves is Lomis Sayles active managed bond fund fee .64 Bps.


Sounds like a cheap ER on a good marriage to me.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby sdrone » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:50 pm

Absolutely. Now, my wife is not a big spender; we both spend within our means.

But she will not, no matter how much I work it, take input from me on her investments. She's a stay at home mom now, but still has a 401k and stock account from pre-marriage, and we contribute to a Roth IRA for her.

The funny thing is, this solidifies the idea of a "Random Walk Down Wall Street." Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that). Her investments beat mine (3 fund portfolio with some small cap tilt) something like 50% of the time. But she never checks them, so she never knows if they are getting destroyed. I've had to gently remind her to get rid of stocks that are pieces of crap.

But the big thing is that we didn't get married until our 30s, and we had established patterns of spending within our means and saving money for the long term.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby davebo » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:15 pm

My wife does not think about finances at all, but she is naturally more frugal than the average person. I don't really care if she knows much about investments or whatever as long as we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby sschullo » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:35 pm

davebo wrote:...we're both on the same page regarding spending and priorities.


+1
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Ozonewanderer » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:49 am

PhillyPhan wrote:00000

How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200... :mrgreen:
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby sschullo » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:05 am

Ozonewanderer wrote:
PhillyPhan wrote:00000

How could two conservative Bogleheads ever have fun? Like if they played Monopoly neither one would buy property - they'd both just go around the board collecting $200... :mrgreen:


:) Similiar comments made by new people to AA? How in the world is it possible for sober people to have fun?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby LazyNihilist » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:50 pm

sdrone wrote:Her portfolio is almost all stocks, and she really does zero research ("I heard about it on the Today show" or something like that).

I heard people buying stocks after listening to CNBC, but the Today show? :shock:
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby yeledbed » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:11 am

Of course you can date and get married... and then you can get divorced. Best of luck to you! :happy
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby wander » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:20 am

sdrone wrote:Absolutely.

+1.
You always have time to decide if you want to get married.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby protagonist » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:48 pm

This song was recorded by the Beatles in July,1963: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_(That's_What_I_Want)

A mere six months later, in January, 1964, they did an about-face and recorded this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Buy_Me_Love

Apparently the young Lennon and McCartney were struggling with the same sort of questions. You are not alone. You'll sort it out.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:48 pm

Wasn't there a Supreme Court case about that back in the '60s, which determined mixed couples can do as they please?
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Van » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:35 pm

A truly frugal Boglehead would rarely date and never marry.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby lws6772 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:27 pm

Yes, you can, but it will be frustrating and then there's the divorce thing. :moneybag
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby serbeer » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:35 pm

Sure. I married non-Boglehead for example.
But she was frugal nonetheless.
I do all the Bogleheadish investment management in our family :)

Bogleheadism can be learned and even intuited but frugality is a basic character trait, so it is much more important to look for one that has it.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby Levett » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:46 pm

"Send her to The Woodlands, Texas"

Cripes. The choice between the Woodlands and Philly is a no-brainer.

Woodlands in a heartbeat. 8-)

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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

Postby stonerolled » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:15 pm

RobG wrote:Investment return = P*(1+r)^N/2^D where P is the amount invested, r is the rate of return, N is the number of years, and D is the number of divorces. :sharebeer


I think you need extra parenthesis (P*(1+r)^N)/(2^D) not sure about order of operations but putting the exponential divorce factor in the denominator is a killer.
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Re: Can a Frugal Boglehead date and marry a non Boglehead?

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