Legos

[Boglenaut]

I don't get it.

SCENARIO 1

I see all these elaborate and expensive Lego sets in the toy section. Come birthday time, it is common for the kids to get $10-$15 sets where they build some specific item. So, with parents help, we follow the directions and make the item. Then what? No fun. No creativity. Just how well you can follow some very detailed instructions. Some toy designer got to do the fun part.

Here are some examples:

http://www.target.com/s/legos#navigatio ... isDLP=true

SCENARIO 2

Now to a second scenario. On Black Friday, Walmart had 650 piece sets for $15. Santa bought three. These sets were not geared to make anything specific (but did show examples). We just dumped all 3 boxes into a big pile and the kids do whatever the want. They spend endless time making creative things I never even thought of. Heck, the tiles used for roofs are now a killer robot's shredder. The neighbor kids come over and they all gravitate to the pile.


So why is it Scenario 1 seems so dominant when Scenario 2 seems to be more fun and more creative?

I don't get it.

[nirvines88]

Some kids like making the specific sets, the ones where the instructions tell you how to make something. Some kids like just taking all the random pieces and building stuff using their own creativity.

When I was a kid, I would typically build the set, leave it there for a day or two, and then take it apart and build something else - typically a huge castle. Had I known they sold bulk legos instead of the pre-made (and more expensive) sets as a kid, I would have been all over that!

[momar]

What looks more fun on the box? Building a Death Star or a bunch of semi-generic houses and stuff?

It seems obvious that kids would choose the former, even if it will be less fun.

My parents bought me an expensive dinoasaur toy once, a big T-Rex, and I was so excited. But once I got it home and played with it, I realized it wasn't any more fun than the smaller ones. But I REALLY wanted it.

[livesoft]

The kid who follows the directions in Scenario 1 will be able to follow the directions when doing Chem Lab in college or even building PCs in a Chinese factory. They will also be able to put together a new bike from Wal-Mart for their 5-year-old at some Christmas in the future. They may even be able to follow directions when buidling their own supercomputer in 10th grade from a kit.

The kid who follows Scenario 2 will grow up to tell their 5-year-old that they got a new killer robot with shredder for Christmas although it will look strangely like parts to a bicycle for a 5-year-old.

Basically, one needs the skills taught/learned in both Scenarios.

[crowd79]

I still buy and build Lego sets from time to time and display them as "nic-nacks", especially those cool Indiana Jones sets from a few years ago.

I'm a just a big grown up kid now!

[Riprap]

I played with Legos and erector sets hours on end as a kid. I am positive it helped me in college visualize and understand basic concepts in physics, statics, dynamics, mechanics of materials, and structural engineering courses.

I think those toys had such a profound impact on me that I was happy to spend money buying those toys for my kids too. Some of the most enjoyable times I had with my children was playing with them watching them learn using Legos. My kids have done very well in physics courses in high school and college and I would like to think that playing with Legos at a young age made a positive impact.

[camper]

My kid loves lego sets such as in scenario one. For Christmas, we got him the space shuttle. He has put it together twice already. With a set you get the bet of both worlds. You can follow the directions and have a cool toy. When you are done with that, take it apart and you have a bunch of random pieces to build whatever you want.

[NAVigator]

Since the parts are mostly interchangeable, after building the pictured item, the pieces can be shuffled around and combined with other "kits" to make incredible toys. When my son was about 6 he would construct a vast array of very creative Lego objects. Of course, these projects would require private funding sources such as parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. He would spend hours and hours in very creative activity. He is now a systems administrator where he plays with software and hardware. At 32, he still has buckets of Legos which he hopes to share with a child someday.

Jerry

[MN Finance]

My oldest is 7 and like me (an engineer by schooling) likes the several hour process of following the directions and putting the set together. Due to the way they have you build the structures, there's a near zero probability it could be built without directions, which is quite interesting. Then the 2 year old finds the built set and regulates it to the bin and then the building phase is forever lost to the creative phase. That said, I'll certainly try the bin idea next year.

[nisiprius]

The main thing is that it's a construction toy that can make more than one thing. Don't get too hung up on it.

Our kids absolutely loved the traditional wooden unit blocks--expensive, heavy, probably dangerous, but still wonderful. They also loved Lego of all sorts and varieties, and I don't know which they loved best.

It's important to have plenty of the undifferentiated general-purpose blocks because that's what makes it possible to be creative, but the special-purpose blocks are fun, too--the "special" blocks become little treasures. Like having a few semi-realistic architectural castle-turret or arch blocks among the wooden blocks. You can't go very far with them because all you can do with a castle turret is put it on top and have it be a castle turret, but it's fun to have a few things like that, too.

And, as MN Finance notes, there is an age for following directions and having it come out like the picture.

(The evil, evil thing is the medium-sized set that comes with the fat instruction book in which all the really neat stuff can only be built with the giant expensive set).

And, look, kids get socialized and there's an age range where they want the expensive thing in the TV ad that their friends have. You can only fight it so far, we live in the culture we live in. Just how weird you want you kid to be and just how weird you want your kid to feel is part of the parenting decisions you make.

By the way, somewhat tangential but anyone who hasn't read The Toys of Peace by Saki should read it. Short, funny, and true. The relevance here is that if kids want to be creative they'll find a way to be creative.

P.S. I wish I could remember the name of the miniature plastic block set I had when I was a kid. I am pretty sure it was NOT Lego--I guess it could conceivably have been, it was the early 1950s--but it was a similar idea. The plastic was cheap-and-cheesy, though. As I recall, they were all brick-colored, but I can't remember if it was just one brick color or two. The thing that makes me think it wasn't Lego was that there were cardboard windows and doors, with tabs, and the bricks had little slots in them so that once you'd framed a window you could anchor the window in it. And the bricks were badly molded and half the slots weren't quite open so it took a lot of work with--what did I use? a penknife? a little screwdriver? to open them up. There were some architectural-detail pieces, cornices and roofs and such. My mother said, verbatim quote, "Whatever you make with it, it always looks like Baltimore."

[Atilla]

Both ways of playing with Legos are great. Building stuff out of your head from a huge bucket of pieces, and following specific instructions to build something in particular.

Both are good for kids. One is creative free play time and the other is learning to read and follow directions that leads toward a specific goal.

That being said - one of the two is more profitable to the manufacturer.

[Boglenaut]

That being said - one of the two is more profitable to the manufacturer.

Being a cynic, that was my explanation for Scenario 1.

Thanks for the comments everyone, especially to those explaining why they liked Scenario 1.

Perhaps also part of the reason Scenario 1 does not go over well here is because the kids are too young for most of the sets. Even the ones that say their age range really are not and need a lot of adult help. Maybe when they get older....

[livesoft]

But interacting with one's parent (or one's child) with a set of instructions is a really meaningful human experience. One can learn quite a lot about this other person during the interactions. Don't discount it.

I had an interesting interaction with my spouse yesterday. We have a new TV with 3 different remotes which I didn't bother to figure out since the TV is voice-controlled. She wanted to watch a movie through an X-box which I have never used, but she has. Needless to say, I am in big trouble because I was not helpful since I had never used the X-box before and wasn't going to read the instructions.

[Boglenaut]

Then the 2 year old finds the built set and regulates it to the bin and then the building phase is forever lost to the creative phase.

Just watch out for choking hazards with the 2 year old.

[ThatGuy]

Can you post a link to a bulk LEGO set?

I greatly enjoyed having a tub (or three) of LEGOs as a child. There was a sheet inside my big plastic tub, and the rule was that I could build anything, but the LEGOs could not leave the sheet. This made clean up really really easy.

However, I can't seem to easily find bulk sets anymore, and all the LEGOs for my kid are overpriced specialty kits. I'd much rather give me a bunch of bricks and the freedom to experiment.

[Boglenaut]

Can you post a link to a bulk LEGO set?

I greatly enjoyed having a tub (or three) of LEGOs as a child. There was a sheet inside my big plastic tub, and the rule was that I could build anything, but the LEGOs could not leave the sheet. This made clean up really really easy.

However, I can't seem to easily find bulk sets anymore, and all the LEGOs for my kid are overpriced specialty kits. I'd much rather give me a bunch of bricks and the freedom to experiment.

This was the set I bought Black Friday for $15. I had a feeling that was a good price for Legos so I bought three (I was there to buy an iPad so hadn't researched Lego prices). Wish I had bought more now at that price.

http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Creative-Building-pieces-5749/dp/B00ABSJNGI

[Tom_T]

We used to buy Lego sets for my son. Star Wars, Batman, etc. He has outgrown them. We now have a box of Lego parts. Must be 2,000, easily. Maybe I need to fire up the eBay account.

Interesting fact I learned from a story on Legos... Every part is stamped with tiny numbers inside. Not only does this tell you the part number, it tells Lego exactly which mold was used to create the part. That way, if people are reporting a defect in a particular set, Lego can go back to the exact mold and fix it.

[atfish]

We still have Legos from the 1970s our 2 kids played with. Now we have a hugh pile and our Grandkids play with them; sometimes for hours. Hopefully we will have Great Grandkids and they get to play with them.

[likegarden]

Building with LEGO blocks is only the beginning. My 9 year old grandson just took a course at his public elementary school in which he learned to program a robotic car with a LEGO control block language similar to what us engineers used to control large turbo generator machinery, I was amazed how early kids get trained nowadays in that.

Here is a link to LEGO Mindstorm :
http://mindstorms.lego.com/en-us/Products/default.aspx

[mike143]

When the the standard LEGO's become boring add a set that includes gears and motors, now that's fun. K'NEX also are a good option for further difficulty.

[joe8d]

Nisiprius wrote:

P.S. I wish I could remember the name of the miniature plastic block set I had when I was a kid. I am pretty sure it was NOT Lego--I guess it could conceivably have been, it was the early 1950s--but it was a similar idea. The plastic was cheap-and-cheesy, though. As I recall, they were all brick-colored, but I can't remember if it was just one brick color or two. The thing that makes me think it wasn't Lego was that there were cardboard windows and doors, with tabs, and the bricks had little slots in them so that once you'd framed a window you could anchor the window in it. And the bricks were badly molded and half the slots weren't quite open so it took a lot of work with--what did I use? a penknife? a little screwdriver? to open them up. There were some architectural-detail pieces, cornices and roofs and such. My mother said, verbatim quote, "Whatever you make with it, it always looks like Baltimore."

Block City.

I spent hours on end, as a kid, building structures with them.I even went through 2 sets.It was my favorite toy.

[MN Finance]

Then the 2 year old finds the built set and regulates it to the bin and then the building phase is forever lost to the creative phase.

Just watch out for choking hazards with the 2 year old.

He's our 4th in 5yrs, so choking on legos would be the tamest of risks he's exposed to daily.

[Mudpuppy]

Can you post a link to a bulk LEGO set?

I greatly enjoyed having a tub (or three) of LEGOs as a child. There was a sheet inside my big plastic tub, and the rule was that I could build anything, but the LEGOs could not leave the sheet. This made clean up really really easy.

However, I can't seem to easily find bulk sets anymore, and all the LEGOs for my kid are overpriced specialty kits. I'd much rather give me a bunch of bricks and the freedom to experiment.

Walmart, Target, and other Lego purveyors sell pink and blue tubs of bricks from the "Bricks and More" line on a regular basis. Here is an example, although there are several tub sizes in the line:

http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Building-Set-Pieces/dp/B000NO9GT4

The Lego Creator line is another one to look into. The Creator sets do tend to have one specific vehicle or building for the box, but have generic enough bricks to be reused for other creative purposes. And of course, you can always buy bulk bricks directly from Legos on their website or at LegoLand.

[tuckeverlasting]

Can you post a link to a bulk LEGO set?

I greatly enjoyed having a tub (or three) of LEGOs as a child. There was a sheet inside my big plastic tub, and the rule was that I could build anything, but the LEGOs could not leave the sheet. This made clean up really really easy.

However, I can't seem to easily find bulk sets anymore, and all the LEGOs for my kid are overpriced specialty kits. I'd much rather give me a bunch of bricks and the freedom to experiment.

Walmart, Target, and other Lego purveyors sell pink and blue tubs of bricks from the "Bricks and More" line on a regular basis. Here is an example, although there are several tub sizes in the line:

http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Building-Set-Pieces/dp/B000NO9GT4

The Lego Creator line is another one to look into. The Creator sets do tend to have one specific vehicle or building for the box, but have generic enough bricks to be reused for other creative purposes. And of course, you can always buy bulk bricks directly from Legos on their website or at LegoLand.

There are usually bulk lots of Legos on ebay, often sold by the pound.

[nisiprius]

Nisiprius wrote:

P.S. I wish I could remember the name of the miniature plastic block set I had when I was a kid. I am pretty sure it was NOT Lego--I guess it could conceivably have been, it was the early 1950s--but it was a similar idea. The plastic was cheap-and-cheesy, though. As I recall, they were all brick-colored, but I can't remember if it was just one brick color or two. The thing that makes me think it wasn't Lego was that there were cardboard windows and doors, with tabs, and the bricks had little slots in them so that once you'd framed a window you could anchor the window in it. And the bricks were badly molded and half the slots weren't quite open so it took a lot of work with--what did I use? a penknife? a little screwdriver? to open them up. There were some architectural-detail pieces, cornices and roofs and such. My mother said, verbatim quote, "Whatever you make with it, it always looks like Baltimore."

Block City.

I spent hours on end, as a kid, building structures with them.I even went through 2 sets.It was my favorite toy.

Tbat's it! Or, at least, very close. The blocks were definitely the same shape as these, and the general building system was the same. I am now, however, completely confused as to what colors the bricks were. This link suggests there were many sets, different names... I do not remember the name, neither "Block CIty" nor "Brick Town" resonates with me. One more detail I think I remember is that while the buildings themselves were impressive, they did not have a good system for roofs, particularly not the pitched roof common where I grew up. It was just a bent piece of cardboard and it didn't fit well or attach.

[StormShadow]

So why is it Scenario 1 seems so dominant when Scenario 2 seems to be more fun and more creative?

I don't get it.

Answer is pretty simple, if you ask me. Its for the same reason why bottled water companies and AOL make money selling a product that you can get for free... marketing.

A better analogy might be with products from Apple, Starbucks and Whole Foods. Not to mention boy band groups and Brittany Spears. Its all about marketing.

[sjb19]

My oldest is 7 and like me (an engineer by schooling) likes the several hour process of following the directions and putting the set together. Due to the way they have you build the structures, there's a near zero probability it could be built without directions, which is quite interesting. Then the 2 year old finds the built set and regulates it to the bin and then the building phase is forever lost to the creative phase. That said, I'll certainly try the bin idea next year.

Hah. Same dynamic with my kids, 5 and 3, except the older one demands I not be in the room to help (I blame that trait on his mother). We found the Walmart "lego" kits to be quite a hit this Christmas, especially the police precinct. He got to follow his directions all by himself and we eventually got to add to the overall stockpile pretty cheaply.

[epilnk]

I don't get it.

SCENARIO 1

I see all these elaborate and expensive Lego sets in the toy section. Come birthday time, it is common for the kids to get $10-$15 sets where they build some specific item. So, with parents help, we follow the directions and make the item. Then what? No fun. No creativity. Just how well you can follow some very detailed instructions. Some toy designer got to do the fun part.

I don't get it.

I don't think your kids get it either. Because the kids in your scenario 1 are doing it wrong. They don't appear to know how to play legos.

My 10 and 11 year old have turned our house into legoland. My kids got the giant box of random lego pieces from ebay when they were little and this was good. Random legos get a ton of use - there are four shoebox sized bins of these parts next to me as I type this (just the stuff they were using tonight). These parts are constantly cycled into forts and bases and barricades and jails and bridges and whatnot, which are attacked by the premium sets that are never disassembled, modified versions of lesser sets, and adapted creations as needed.

All sets come with minifigs. Minifigs are very, very, very important. You cannot ever have too many minifigs. Enormous numbers of minifigs, their vehicles, and fortifications are used for each battle. Friends come over and bring their own minifigs and vehicles (though they raid our large bins for all the other needed parts). Battles last for days, until a parent gets annoyed or wants to vacuum.

Other than the ebay lot and a few christmas presents, I've purchased little of this. Each time my children save enough of their small allowances, they combine their money to buy a pack of gum or candy to split and a lego set to share. There's little else they value as highly. They spend the time between purchases planning and negotiating which set they will get next, and whether there will be individual ownership of specific minifigs. (Minifigs are very important.) They play with legos nearly every day, and have for many years. I see no shortage of creativity in their play.

The pirate ship that was an extravagant gift is my son's prized possession and gets more play than any toy ever has and presumably ever will. He never, ever, ever leaves it out on the floor where it might be accidentally bumped, and it may be the only toy he has ever voluntarily put away. He used to carry it carefully into the top bunk every night.

All legos fight. When the lego garbage truck was discovered to be inexplicably unarmed, my then 3 year old (a lego savant who has never needed help with assembly) instantly fixed that by immediately removing the tailpipes and mounting them on the roof to fire at badguys. Who needs tailpipes?

[Boglenaut]

They don't appear to know how to play legos.

Blame the kids? Sheesh.

[jasc15]

As a kid, I had a lot of "I see what you did there" moments when building kits according to the instructions. I learned a lot from those designers, and incorporated some of those techniques in my own unique builds. I think the kits have a lot of value in that respect.

[epilnk]

They don't appear to know how to play legos.

Blame the kids? Sheesh.

OK, then, let me try again. The answer to your question about why scenario 1 is dominant when scenario 2 seems more fun to you, is that scenario 1 (minus the "then what?" part) is more fun for a larger number of children. That's why the sets sell better. It's not simply marketing (though lego certainly does excel at that), but because the sets get played with for hours upon hours. Parents buy what they see their children playing with. Your kids don't play with the sets, but that's why the toy store extends beyond the lego aisle.

[epilnk]

What looks more fun on the box? Building a Death Star or a bunch of semi-generic houses and stuff?

It seems obvious that kids would choose the former, even if it will be less fun.

My parents bought me an expensive dinoasaur toy once, a big T-Rex, and I was so excited. But once I got it home and played with it, I realized it wasn't any more fun than the smaller ones. But I REALLY wanted it.

This Christmas the boy next door got the Lego Death Star from his indulgent and well to do grandparents. All the kids in the neighborhood agree that it is way cool. But they never play with it - it's too big and bulky, you can't carry it around, and there's not much you can do with it. Though it came with a lot of minifigs, so it's not a total loss. But my boys consider big expensive sets to be a waste of money. It's adults who choose that sort of thing.

[Saleen]

This thread makes me want to have kids so I can play with legos again. That and Brillo train sets were the best!

I was always more of a scenario #2 guy myself.

[Saving$]

Growing up, I was totally baffled as to why anyone would ever want any toy other than Lego. Kind of the same as I am baffled as to why anyone would invest in high ER funds.

As far as I was concerned, any other indoor toy, and most outdoor toys were a complete waste, because they were not Lego. I got a model plane once and asked my parents what I was supposed to do with it since it was not Lego - I was not impressed. Kind of the same as I am not impressed with high ER funds. They are a complete waste.

ps - and the poster above is correct; Lefo minifigs are VERY important. They did not come out until I was in my early teens, but they probably made me continue to play with Lego for an extra year or two. Do not underestimate the importance of Lego minifigs.

[WhiskeyJ]

This thread makes me want to have kids so I can play with legos again.

Amen! I have loved playing with legos again with my 3.5 year old. It's fascinating watching his concentration (and tongue) as we follow the directions to put these together. WRT senario 2, it reminds me of my brother's kids, a little older. They never had a TV in their house, and never purchased any kind of gun/fighting toys. However, 90% of the time his boys are creating guns, swords, rockets with guns, and other weapons out of the parts.

A great combination of scenario 1 and 2 are the three-in-one sets. One set of legos can be built and taken apart to make three different things. I think that helps understand the following directions part and spurs creativity.

[mike143]

If you want to add some pink blocks to the mix: Amazon.com LEGO Pink Brick Box Large (5560)

[EagertoLearnMore]

If you play with Lego, go to www.lego.com for message board, INSTRUCTIONS for assembling their products, and replacement of missing pieces. Advanced play is being done by adults as well as children and the site sometimes showcases the projects.

Yes, the minifigs are very important and very collectible.

[sesq]

I had recently commented to my wife that Lego's seemed to have lost their sole with these kits (my childhood was scenario 2). Then I remembered that when I was a kid I did occasionally build scale models, which is essentially the same thing as scenario 1.

Right now for me personally, my 4 year old son has gotten some kits as gifts. He is not yet nimble enough to do his own repair work, so it is a sub-optimal.

[Mudpuppy]

This thread makes me want to have kids so I can play with legos again. That and Brillo train sets were the best!

Why wait for kids? If you want to play with Legos, get some Legos to play with. You can always tell your friends that you're practicing to compete in one of their master builder contests if the social ramifications are your concern.

[burnsh]

All I know is I used to love my Space Legos and will forever hate the day I got rid of them after I thought I had outgrown them in my teens.

[jasc15]

All I know is I used to love my Space Legos and will forever hate the day I got rid of them after I thought I had outgrown them in my teens.

I still have major regret from giving away my lego bucket. I've been searching craigslist recently, and found someone selling a huge lot of lego kits, many of which are ones I had as a kid. The sets individually retail for about $2000 (he was kind enough to list all the kit names and numbers so I could price them) and he is asking $800. Pretty cheap, considering people often spend tens of thousands or more trying to buy back their youth. At least I can pass this on to my future children (assuming they'll be interested), although I still can't quite swallow that price for an impulsive emotional purchase.

[slug]

Best of both worlds here.

My kid gets new kits on special occasions and does the full build and displays them proudly. Happens to love Star Wars.

Thanks to my Mom, he also gets the creative piece because we retained a huge bin of my space and knight LEGOs. Nice father-son time too.