Browser wrote:I've heard about a rebalancing strategy in which, I believe, the investor only rebalances when stocks have exceeded their allocation target, but not otherwise. It might be used with a rebalancing band, such as 10%. For example, if I have a portfolio with 50% bonds, 50% stocks, I would sell stocks to buy bonds only if my stock allocation had grown to 55%. I don't believe you ever sell bonds to buy stocks with this method, but I'm not sure. It's a "sell high" but not a "buy low" approach. I think Larry Swedroe mentioned in another thread somewhere that he uses this method with his personal portfolio. I'm wondering what the pros and cons are for using this approach, and what type of an investor it might be suitable for.
vesalius wrote:I get the impression Larry sees it as a viable alternative for those that have already won the game and have little to no reason to take additional risk.
Call_Me_Op wrote:Eric,
I am afraid I must disagree somewhat. There is more than one road to Dublin. Investors should be comfortable with whatever approach they are taking. As long as they understand that certain approaches have higher or lower expected returns and higher or lower risks, there is no reason they should not design an approach that suits their specific needs (including the need to sleep well at night). I do not agree that this should be called market timing or bad behavior any more than neglecting a certain asset class (like precious metals or REITs) should be considered bad behavior.
Call_Me_Op wrote:Eric,
I am afraid I must disagree somewhat. There is more than one road to Dublin. Investors should be comfortable with whatever approach they are taking. As long as they understand that certain approaches have higher or lower expected returns and higher or lower risks, there is no reason they should not design an approach that suits their specific needs (including the need to sleep well at night). I do not agree that this should be called market timing or bad behavior any more than neglecting a certain asset class (like precious metals or REITs) should be considered bad behavior.
EDN wrote:"Risk" is not the notion that equities may go down further before they recover.
Risk is...being forced to sell equity assets at temporarily depressed prices because you don't have enough in high-quality fixed income to sell instead.
jeffyscott wrote:Let's say I have designated $X is $500,000 for me and I currently have $600,000 in high quality fixed income and $600,000 in stocks. Then stocks decline by 70%, to $180,000. Should I now return to 50/50 by reducing my high quality fixed income to $390,000 or should I keep at least $500,000 safe?
EDN wrote:Call_Me_Op wrote:Eric,
I am afraid I must disagree somewhat. There is more than one road to Dublin. Investors should be comfortable with whatever approach they are taking. As long as they understand that certain approaches have higher or lower expected returns and higher or lower risks, there is no reason they should not design an approach that suits their specific needs (including the need to sleep well at night). I do not agree that this should be called market timing or bad behavior any more than neglecting a certain asset class (like precious metals or REITs) should be considered bad behavior.
I'm not sure "more than one road" applies here. That just means there isn't just one correct asset allocation (stock/bond or asset class breakdown). But there is an implicit assumption that whatever mix you choose, it will be rebalanced in good times and bad. All you are doing by not rebalancing when stocks are down is targeting a lower expected returning portfolio when expected returns are highest, lowering the total long-term expected return of your portfolio without a commensurate reduction in volatility (the losses already happened at a higher equity level). You'd be better off holding less stocks in the first place but actually rebalancing when they are down. Higher risk (riding down a higher-equity allocation), lower return (having less higher return assets when expected returns are highest) portfolios aren't a "road", they are a ditch you want to avoid on your travels.
As the saying goes, 'if you took the risk (associated with a certain stock allocation), you might as well get the return (by ensuring you hold that allocation when the market heads higher)'.
Eric
umfundi wrote:What does your (written) investment plan say?
If it says you will have $500,000 in near-cash and the rest in some AA, then you should rebalance the remainder.
Eric's point is correct: If you have set an allocation and rebalance only some of the time, you are missing opportunities.
EDN wrote:But at the point of these declines, we begin to worry (irrationally?) that they will never recover or never come back in our lifetime, despite the evidence to the contrary (the real value on the market portfolio was fully restored in less that 5 years from the trough during '29-'32, '37, '73-'74, '00-'02, and '08,...

Browser wrote:I've heard about a rebalancing strategy in which, I believe, the investor only rebalances when stocks have exceeded their allocation target, but not otherwise. It might be used with a rebalancing band, such as 10%. For example, if I have a portfolio with 50% bonds, 50% stocks, I would sell stocks to buy bonds only if my stock allocation had grown to 55%. I don't believe you ever sell bonds to buy stocks with this method, but I'm not sure. It's a "sell high" but not a "buy low" approach. I think Larry Swedroe mentioned in another thread somewhere that he uses this method with his personal portfolio. I'm wondering what the pros and cons are for using this approach, and what type of an investor it might be suitable for.
Browser wrote:I've always questioned the idea that a fixed asset allocation has fixed risk, and you are maintaining that risk level by rebalancing. I don't believe it. For example, when stocks have declined in price it seems to me that's because the market has decided that the current risk premium for owning stocks is too low; i.e., stock risk has increased relative to expected returns. So investors drive the price down to a level that restores the equilibrium risk premium. If you do nothing, the risk level of your portfolio remains the same as before, at least in terms of the market's judgment of risk.
Browser wrote:I've always questioned the idea that a fixed asset allocation has fixed risk, and you are maintaining that risk level by rebalancing. I don't believe it. For example, when stocks have declined in price it seems to me that's because the market has decided that the current risk premium for owning stocks is too low; i.e., stock risk has increased relative to expected returns. So investors drive the price down to a level that restores the equilibrium risk premium. If you do nothing, the risk level of your portfolio remains the same as before, at least in terms of the market's judgment of risk. If you choose to buy more stocks ("rebalance") then you are increasing the risk level of your portfolio relative to the market's judgment of risk. So, rebalancing back into stocks after stocks have lost value is really a risk-reward story. You are assuming greater risk in the expectation of greater reward. But like all risk-reward stories, it wouldn't be risk if it always paid off. Even if it has often paid off in the past, there is the real, true, and actual possibility that it won't this time and you will get kicked in your tender spot.
tfb wrote:Browser wrote:I've heard about a rebalancing strategy in which, I believe, the investor only rebalances when stocks have exceeded their allocation target, but not otherwise. It might be used with a rebalancing band, such as 10%. For example, if I have a portfolio with 50% bonds, 50% stocks, I would sell stocks to buy bonds only if my stock allocation had grown to 55%. I don't believe you ever sell bonds to buy stocks with this method, but I'm not sure. It's a "sell high" but not a "buy low" approach. I think Larry Swedroe mentioned in another thread somewhere that he uses this method with his personal portfolio. I'm wondering what the pros and cons are for using this approach, and what type of an investor it might be suitable for.
I would go the opposite. Always buy low but slow to sell and let it ride.
It is well known that volatility varies over time. Why wouldn't the perceived risk also vary over time?
umfundi wrote:
I ran some simulations some time ago. The scenario was a 50/50 portfolio of stocks and bonds (TSM and TBM) with a monthly investment for about a dozen years to the start of 2012.
There is a missing component here: What are you rebalancing with? Is this like the arguments about Dollar-Cost Averaging, where the whole focus is on the "risk" of stocks, but the other part is some mythical safe liquid cash reserve that has no risk at all?
tfb wrote:Browser wrote:I've heard about a rebalancing strategy in which, I believe, the investor only rebalances when stocks have exceeded their allocation target, but not otherwise. It might be used with a rebalancing band, such as 10%. For example, if I have a portfolio with 50% bonds, 50% stocks, I would sell stocks to buy bonds only if my stock allocation had grown to 55%. I don't believe you ever sell bonds to buy stocks with this method, but I'm not sure. It's a "sell high" but not a "buy low" approach. I think Larry Swedroe mentioned in another thread somewhere that he uses this method with his personal portfolio. I'm wondering what the pros and cons are for using this approach, and what type of an investor it might be suitable for.
I would go the opposite. Always buy low but slow to sell and let it ride.
grayfox wrote:umfundi wrote:
I ran some simulations some time ago. The scenario was a 50/50 portfolio of stocks and bonds (TSM and TBM) with a monthly investment for about a dozen years to the start of 2012.
There's the answer right there. 2000-2012 has been a non-trending period with big reversals-down, up, down, up--ending up about where it started. Re-balancing outperforms Buy-and-Hold in trendless markets.
If you picked a trending period, my guess is that instead of re-balancing bonus, there would be a re-balancing penalty.
letsgobobby wrote:In essence I think this means my AA is really higher than 60/40, but I just don't call it that.
We’ve just done a study for the NYTimes on rebalancing, so the subject is fresh in my mind. Fact: a 48%S&P 500, 16% small cap, 16% international, and 20% bond index, over the past 20 years, earned a 9.49% annual return without rebalancing and a 9.71% return if rebalanced annually. That’s worth describing as “noise,” and suggests that formulaic rebalancing with precision is not necessary.
We also did an earlier study of all 25-year periods beginning in 1826 (!), using a 50/50 US stock/bond portfolio, and found that annual rebalancing won in 52% of the 179 periods. Also, it seems to me, noise.
jeffyscott wrote:Now it may be from that low point stocks soon skyrocket and I will have missed an opportunity, but it also may be that stocks have reached a permanently low basin and I have avoided a worse disaster.
The Wizard wrote:jeffyscott wrote:Now it may be from that low point stocks soon skyrocket and I will have missed an opportunity, but it also may be that stocks have reached a permanently low basin and I have avoided a worse disaster.
So, like, when was the last time stocks reached a permanently low basin, to use that quaint terminology?
It hasn't happened and it's not GOING to happen. So ignore that fantasy...
Browser wrote:The Wizard wrote:jeffyscott wrote:Now it may be from that low point stocks soon skyrocket and I will have missed an opportunity, but it also may be that stocks have reached a permanently low basin and I have avoided a worse disaster.
So, like, when was the last time stocks reached a permanently low basin, to use that quaint terminology?
It hasn't happened and it's not GOING to happen. So ignore that fantasy...
You have obviously avoided the Japanese market since 1989, as well as the markets in many countries in which the stock markets completely collapsed and investors lost everything. But that can't happen here...
The Wizard wrote:I live and mostly invest in the US, correct.
So I'm dealing with that reality, not worrying about boogyman scenarios.
Buy low, sell high. Rinse & repeat....
grayfox wrote:Rebalancing to a constant mix is not the only dynamic strategy. See the 1994 paper Dynamic Strategies for Asset Allocation by Andre F. Perold and William F. Sharpe.
Another method described in the paper is simple Buy and Hold, i.e. no-rebalancing. In Figure 4, Buy-and-Hold is shown to be superior to Constant Mix in trending markets.
Sharpe won a Nobel prize, so I would give some weight to his ideas. In my opinion, unyielding dogmatism about one strategy or another is not helpful.
jsl11 wrote:Most of the discussion here about 2008 ignores the fact that this was not an ordinary stock market decline. Major financial companies were failing. Merrill Lynch essentially went broke. Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. went belly up. The government had to bail out AIG and many (most?) of the banks. General Motors went bankrupt! The US was on the verge of financial collapse. It was not at all clear how it would all be resolved, nor how long it would take. A stock market recovery seemed to be a remote possibility any time soon. For a retiree who had "enough", selling bonds to buy stocks did not seem to be a smart thing to do. At that time, such a retiree was much more concerned with asset preservation rather than possible, maybe, asset growth at some unknown time in the future. With hindsight, it is easy to say now that it would have been better to rebalance. At that time, it was not so clear.
Jeff
jsl11 wrote:Most of the discussion here about 2008 ignores the fact that this was not an ordinary stock market decline. Major financial companies were failing. Merrill Lynch essentially went broke. Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. went belly up. The government had to bail out AIG and many (most?) of the banks. General Motors went bankrupt! The US was on the verge of financial collapse. It was not at all clear how it would all be resolved, nor how long it would take. A stock market recovery seemed to be a remote possibility any time soon. For a retiree who had "enough", selling bonds to buy stocks did not seem to be a smart thing to do. At that time, such a retiree was much more concerned with asset preservation rather than possible, maybe, asset growth at some unknown time in the future. With hindsight, it is easy to say now that it would have been better to rebalance. At that time, it was not so clear.
Jeff
Call_Me_Op wrote:Where is it written that rebalancing must be performed in a specific manner? I'd like to reserve the flexibility to be a bit more creative. If it is highest expected return you are shooting for, rebalancing isn't a factor because you should be 100% in equities. If the goal is to have enough to retire comfortably and to enjoy the ride along the way, I see nothing wrong with lopping the top off of your aggressive assets when they are doing very well, and letting them fend for themselves after they have taken a hit. Yes, you may be sacrificing some "expected return", but you are taking the prospect (however improbable) of total devastation off the table.
Leesbro63 wrote:jsl11 wrote:Most of the discussion here about 2008 ignores the fact that this was not an ordinary stock market decline. Major financial companies were failing. Merrill Lynch essentially went broke. Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. went belly up. The government had to bail out AIG and many (most?) of the banks. General Motors went bankrupt! The US was on the verge of financial collapse. It was not at all clear how it would all be resolved, nor how long it would take. A stock market recovery seemed to be a remote possibility any time soon. For a retiree who had "enough", selling bonds to buy stocks did not seem to be a smart thing to do. At that time, such a retiree was much more concerned with asset preservation rather than possible, maybe, asset growth at some unknown time in the future. With hindsight, it is easy to say now that it would have been better to rebalance. At that time, it was not so clear.
Jeff
I disagree. It's always scary. In 1929 was THAT a normal decline? In 1974, when cars got 8MPG and oil looked to be running out in 16 years and prices more than doubled overnight....was THAT a normal decline?
magician wrote:grayfox wrote:Rebalancing to a constant mix is not the only dynamic strategy. See the 1994 paper Dynamic Strategies for Asset Allocation by Andre F. Perold and William F. Sharpe.
Another method described in the paper is simple Buy and Hold, i.e. no-rebalancing. In Figure 4, Buy-and-Hold is shown to be superior to Constant Mix in trending markets.
Sharpe won a Nobel prize, so I would give some weight to his ideas. In my opinion, unyielding dogmatism about one strategy or another is not helpful.
I recall writing that somewhere, probably in the Do You Rebalance? thread.
Return to Investing - Theory, News & General
Users browsing this forum: AndroAsc, Baidu [Spider], bertilak, Bing [Bot], brazil_will, money, spotty_dog, tipswatcher and 55 guests