Is there a Fidelity Total World Index Fund?

[shawcroft]

Does Fidelity offer a "Total World Index Fund" similar to the Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund ( VTWSX)? I've poked around the Fidelity website but haven't been able to find it.
Also, I was a bit surprised to find that Vanguard apparently does not have an Admiral share class for its Total World Stock Index fund..or did I miss that as well?
Shawcroift

[livesoft]

Nothing wrong with using the Total World Index ETF at Fidelity.

[shawcroft]

Livesoft:
Thanks.....
I've never purchased a VG ETF so I didn't even think about a Fidelity ETF. (I've led a sheltered life)
One of these days I just have to move into the 20th Century.......work on becoming accustomed to that time period before I try the 21st.....
Shawcroft

[HueyLD]

How about a combination of Fidelity Spartan Global ex-U.S. Index Fund plus Spartan Total Market Index Fund?

[nisiprius]

shawcroft, I think livesoft means that you can buy the Vanguard Total World ETF at Fidelity.

Fidelity has almost no ETFs of its own. There's one bizarre exception. Can't remember what it is, it has a strange ticker symbol... oh, yes, here it is it's called ONEQ and it tracks the NASDAQ composite index.

There don't seem to be many all-world index funds or ETFs. Besides Vanguard's VT, Google tells me of an iShares MSCI ACWI ETF, known, conveniently, by the ticker symbol ACWI, and it is, even more conveniently, one of the thirty iShares ETFs Fidelity offers with no commission. So that might be considered "Fidelity's" total world fund. It has an 0.34% ER. Oddly, though, it has noticeably underperformed Vanguard's Total World Stock Fund (VTWSX) with an 0.40% ER. VTWSX, as you'd expect, has very slightly underperformed the Vanguard Total World Stock ETF, VT, with an 0.22% ER. See the chart..

No, there are no Admiral shares of VTWSX. Not yet, anyway. It seems as if new Vanguard index funds may perhaps follow a pattern, as they get bigger and acquire operating economies: first there's a purchase fee, then they drop the purchase fee, then they offer Admiral shares.

[shawcroft]

Nisiprius...
Thanks..
I missed what livesoft meant....we folks from the farming country can be quite dense.
Shawcroft

[Cash]

shawcroft, I think livesoft means that you can buy the Vanguard Total World ETF at Fidelity.

Fidelity has almost no ETFs of its own. There's one bizarre exception. Can't remember what it is, it has a strange ticker symbol... oh, yes, here it is it's called ONEQ and it tracks the NASDAQ composite index.

There don't seem to be many all-world index funds or ETFs. Besides Vanguard's VT, Google tells me of an iShares MSCI ACWI ETF, known, conveniently, by the ticker symbol ACWI, and it is, even more conveniently, one of the thirty iShares ETFs Fidelity offers with no commission. So that might be considered "Fidelity's" total world fund. It has an 0.34% ER. Oddly, though, it has noticeably underperformed Vanguard's Total World Stock Fund (VTWSX) with an 0.40% ER. VTWSX, as you'd expect, has very slightly underperformed the Vanguard Total World Stock ETF, VT, with an 0.22% ER.

Last time I checked, ACWI did not include small caps, whereas VT does.

[nisiprius]

Last time I checked, ACWI did not include small caps, whereas VT does.

You're right. VT tracks FTSE Global All Cap Index. (Why did I think it tracked MSCI ACWI?). The iShares ACWI ETF tracks MSCI ACWI. There is both a "MSCI ACWI" and a "MSCI ACWI All Cap" index, and the ACWI ETF tracks the former.

(Actually in shawcroft's situation, personally, I'd probably take Huey's suggestion...)

[shawcroft]

I’ve had a few Private Messages on this post so let me give some clarification about my Fidelity question.
I would like buy VTWSX in a Vanguard IRA account...but I am seeking to work around a Vanguard "glitch".
Long story short: I want to convert a small 401(k) from a former employer of 20+ years past into a rollover IRA. It is currently held at State Street Bank and now has about $60,000 in it.
I have a larger 401(k) which was placed in a Rollover IRA a few years back and it is all in VG funds. My wife is the primary beneficiary of this current rollover IRA and our two sons (ages 25 and 30) are the successor beneficiaries. The VG funds are 50-50 bonds/equity and the asset allocation is set up for our “retirement” and anticipated living expenses. So far, so good.
I'd like to put this small 401(k) into another rollover IRA, invest it in global equities with a 30-40 year time horizon, and have our two sons as the primary beneficiaries- NOT my wife. (We believe she will “have enough” without it and the "all-in-equities" investment strategy is OK for sons at their current ages but would be out of whack for our [her] age and our [her] asset allocation)
The "glitch"? Vanguard won't permit different beneficiary sequences among any of an individual’s IRA or 401(k) accounts they hold. It all has to be the same.
There has been a LOT of Forum comments about this policy and a Forbes article entitled: "Disinherited by Vanguard" commented about this a few years back
So, I was thinking of using Fidelity for the rollover IRA and was seeking a Fidelity fund offering which would approximate VTWSX.
Perhaps another way to do this would be to establish a Fidelity rollover account, have it hold VTWSX, and designate our two sons as primary beneficiaries (and my wife as the successor beneficiary) for that rollover IRA.
Might that work? Or has someone another thought on how to accomplish this objective?
Thanks,
Shawcroft

[shawcroft]

A follow-up of sorts....
I've been "poking around" the Fidelity website, looking at their Rollover IRA program. I went to their rollover offerings for "global funds" and they list 3 Fidelity funds and 79 other funds (the only ones which Fidelity apparently authorizes) available for inclusion into their rollover IRA.
Strangely, there are NO Vanguard funds included in the 70 "non-Fidelity funds".
Am I seeing this correctly?
I think this endeavour is going to drive me nuts....
Shawcroft

[livesoft]

Just buy VT at Fidelity and have dividends automatically re-invested for free. It sure seems that you are never going to add to this anyways, so it goes into "set-and-forget" mode.

Maybe try to get the bonus from Fidelity for opening a new account. I don't know if they still do that or if they do it for IRAs.

Make sure your sons know that when they inherit, they can change the asset allocation to something that matches what they want. That is, tell them not to think of this as "Dad's wish for us to keep VT forever." Perhaps they will need tax-advantaged space for a bond fund at that time?

[retiredjg]

I think if you want to use Fido, you should just use their Spartan Total Stock Index and Spartan Global except US Index. It's simple enough to do. Even better, put a touch of bonds in there by using the Four-In-One account and never have to rebalance.

Is there some special reason you really need your US and foreign stock all in one fund?

[livesoft]

Four-in-One (FFNOX) is great. My daughter bought that in her Roth IRA at my insistence suggestion.

[shawcroft]

Retiredjg:
I have thought about using Fido funds in my (hypothetical) rollover IRA…their Total US Spartan and Total International Spartan would be cheaper than VTWSX Investor shares (the ETF version [VT] has an expense ratio that is more competitive with the Fidelity Spartans).
To me, the VG Total World Stock Index fund would allow me to invest this money with a very long investment horizon (30-40 years) for our two sons (ages 25 and 30). I had thought going “all-in” with equities on a global basis would be reasonable and our boys could balance this equity holding with their own CD’s or bonds, (laddered or otherwise).
I am open to all suggestions. I won’t do this fast- I want to do this rollover once- and do it right.
Shawcroft

[nisiprius]

I don't see a big problem with just using 45% Spartan Total Stock Index and 55% Spartan Global ex-US Index.

I'm such a dummy that it actually didn't strike me until just now that if you hold these in proportion to their percentages of world stock market capitalization, I don't think you ever even need to rebalance. If we get a great U. S. bull market, then Total Stock will grow faster than Global ex-US and become a larger percentage of the portfolio, but that will be because the U. S. stock market will have become a higher percentage of the cap value of the total world stock market--and vice versa.

(Or is there some currency fluctuation thing I'm missing? Anyway, If I'm wrong about that, rebalancing still wouldn't be anything you'd need to do frequently--not even annually.)

[shawcroft]

Nisiprius:
Thanks for that thought. Lots of good ideas from my fellow Bogleheads....which I appreciate.
If there wasn't any cost to establish (and purchase VG funds to place into) a rollover IRA with Fidelity, it would seem that a mix of 45% VTSAX and 55% VTIAX would attain most of what I am currently trying to achieve.
With the 401(k) currently having about $60,000 in it, that would come to $27,000 in VTSAX and $33,00in VTIAX- both amounts well above what is needed to qualify for Admiral shares.
In addition, VTIAX includes small caps (from my reading, FSGDX does not) and both VG funds have a slightly lower expense ratio than the comparison Fidelity index fund.
Ah, what started out as a seemingly simple question certainly "morphed " into something more complex.
Shawcroft

[Default User BR]

Maybe try to get the bonus from Fidelity for opening a new account. I don't know if they still do that or if they do it for IRAs.

Yes and yes. https://scs.fidelity.com/other/offers/registration_casha.shtml

For a 60k rollover, that would be an extra $200.


Brian

[shawcroft]

More thoughts on this question...
I got a message saying that I might be able to keep the rollover IRA (from the 401k I mentioned above) at Vanguard if my wife survived me and she disclaimed receipt of just this rollover IRA- not either of the two other IRA's I have at Vanguard.
My dumb question for this situation: if someone is the primary beneficiary of three IRA's ( 2 rollover, one traditional), can they disclaim just ONE of these to have just that one go to the successor beneficiaries?
Anyone familiar with this "disclaiming" process?
Shawcroft

[shawcroft]

An update:
1). My VG representative confirmed that Vanguard still will not permit different beneficiary sequences if you have two or more IRA's with them. Alas, I do....I currently have a T-ITRA and a Rollover IRA.
(My response to this would be to quote General Anthony McAuliffe: "NUTS")

2). He said Vanguard has a "Voice of the Client" program which considers client requests. So, I'm going to write up this one, send it in, and see if anything occurs. However, my thought in #3 below might achieve the same result- if it is allowed.

3). I also asked VG about disclaiming an IRA. VG allows folks to disclaim an IRA- they sort of view it as if the primary beneficiary passed away before the IRA owner- so the successor beneficiary (ies) receive the assets. However, my question to him was more specific: would VG allow my wife (as the primary beneficiary) to disclaim ONE- a specific one- on the IRA's I now have with Vanguard. He said the would ask the question- I'll let you, know that answer.

Shawcroft

[retiredjg]

If this does not work out to your satisfaction, I still think you should give consideration to Fidelity's Four In One FFNOX https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31634R109

It's cheap, it's a fund of index funds, it won't have the IRA designation problems you are struggling with at VG. You seem to want 100% equities, but a touch of bonds (15%) is still quite aggressive but has the benefits of a bit in bonds. There are times when bonds perform better than stocks. It would be good to have some during those times.

[feh]

Does Fidelity offer a "Total World Index Fund" similar to the Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund ( VTWSX)?

Have you looked at FSIVX?

[Alan S.]

The disclaimer strategy should work, the only negative is that your surviving spouse must submit a qualified disclaimer within 9 months of your death (disclaimers can also be partial). Setting this up with the spousal beneficiary would also buy time for one of two possible developments:
1) Your accounts grow to flagship status where VG is reportably more flexible on their beneficiary requirements, ie your assets produce some leverage OR
2) Loss of accounts to other custodians, almost none of which have these beneficiary restrictions, results in Vanguard dropping these requirements.

[livesoft]

Does Fidelity offer a "Total World Index Fund" similar to the Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund ( VTWSX)?

Have you looked at FSIVX?

FSIVX is a large-cap developed foreign fund. A better Fidelity mutual fund would be FSGDX as already mentioned.

[tj]

Does Fidelity offer a "Total World Index Fund" similar to the Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund ( VTWSX)?

Have you looked at FSIVX?

FSIVX is a large-cap developed foreign fund. A better Fidelity mutual fund would be FSGDX as already mentioned.

Doesn't include US.

[shawcroft]

If this does not work out to your satisfaction, I still think you should give consideration to Fidelity's Four In One FFNOX

retiredjg:
Thanks for your suggestion. I have been going through a few "hoops" trying to reach a decision. I've had a few messages which essentially said: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". FFNOX seems to be a good compromise...sure, I am a bit "Vanguard-centric" (almost to a fault) and I would like to keep thing as simple as possible- just one fund company.
I've downloaded the information on FFNOX and will go over it. The ER is set at 0.08 until sometime in 2015 ( quite appealing) and the gross ER without the discount would be 0.21-0.23. To me, that is certainly competitive with VTWSX.
More to read....
I have two more related questions "cooking".. ..
The first is the one on disclaiming the IRA ( if it was at Vanguard). Alan S. (above) thinks this would be a workable solution....would like to hear that definitely from Vanguard. ("Trust, but verify")
The second one ( which is related) involves where a second rollover IRA (R-IRA) would be "mechanically" placed. Would it be held as a separate R-IRA ( as R-IRA-2) or would it be "co-mingled" with the R-IRA is currently have with Vanguard
I'll let the folks know the answers.....
Thanks again,
Shawcroft

[shawcroft]

An update with answers to the questions above:
I wrote my VG representative about the open questions:
The first question : Could my wife (as primary beneficiary) disclaim a SPECIFIC IRA, allowing it to go to our two sons who are identified as successor beneficiaries?
(I currently have two IRA's at Vanguards - a T-IRA I started back in the late 1970's and a R-IRA from my FIRST employer's 401(k) which was rolled over in 1989 at a national {please don't ask for the ugly details} and thankfully came to Vanguard in 2008).
The answer is YES. She could disclaim either one, both or none. It is her choice, provided she does it within the designated time period after my demise (which I believe is 9 months- anyone know for sure?).

The second question: (which is related) involves where the assets of a second rollover IRA (R-IRA) would be "mechanically" placed. If I were to rollover the 401(k) from my THIRD employer, could it be held as a separate R-IRA (as R-IRA #2) or would it have to be "co-mingled" with the R-IRA (from my FIRST employer) which is currently now with Vanguard?
The answer is it can come over as a new, separate R-IRA. It does not have to be "co-mingled" with my existing IRA. If I want them merged together, Vanguard will do it but it isn't necessary or required.

GREAT NEWS to me!

From the earlier discussion on this thread, I want the asset allocation of this second rollover IRA to be set with our two son's investment horizon in mind......and it will differ from the asset allocation in the first R-IRA which is set up for the investment horizon of my wife and I....

These answers seem to provide a practical solution to address the policy of one beneficiary sequence for the same type of IRA held at Vanguard for a client. Hope these thoughts help someone else...has anyone already done this?
Shawcroft

[Mikejenny]

Sounds like you finally found some way that would get you to your goal. If you can put the rollover at Vanguard and you liked FFNOX, what fund are you considering at Vanguard? Target Retirement 2040, 2045, 2050 or maybe the LifeStrategy Growth ?
Boy, you were persistent.
Mike

[shawcroft]

Mike:
I've thought about the Wellington Fund as well but the big three I have been considering are Lifestrategy Growth, Target Retirement 2050, and - at a distance- Fidelity Four-in-one.(FFNOX).
Actually, I do like FFNOX but I went into a Fidelity office in the area ( I live in Connecticut) to ask some simple "mechanical questions" about the transfer. Of course, I got the "broker on call" ...who was a lady.
I explained what I wanted to do......and why...and the gal seemed to be unfamiliar with the idea of investing with the beneficiaries investment horizon in mind and not your own. Kept wanting to interest me in Fidelity bond funds...or some Fidelity balanced funds. I kept replying that I wanted to invest in something which sort of matched our son's overall investment horizon.
When I said I would have to look at the investment performance and expense ratios of any other Fidelity funds ( besides FFNOX), my mention of expense ratios seemed to hit a hot button. She proceeded to trash Vanguard- and I decided the time had come to gracefully exit the place.
So, I certainly won't be needing her assistance. I still think Fidelity is OK...just not this representative. The encounter did make me really pursue that disclaimer question with my VG representative..which seems to be the answer for us.
Now the question is: Lifestrategy Growth or Target Retirement 2050.
Shawcroft

[bUU]

Please share you comparable experience visiting a Vanguard office.