Death to ING Banking.... dang you Capital one....

[aubpri]

Just got this email from ING that they are finalizing the acquisition of Capital One with a rebranding and name change to Capital One 360. I've been an ING banking client for 7 years and hate to see them change. I'd have to imagine their structure and benefits will slowly change as well. Going to start the search for a new online bank and wanted to see who had some recommendations. Heard a lot of great things about Ally

Here is what I loved from ING that I'm looking for:
No fees
Ability to earn interest on checking and savings
Standard electronic capabilities: balance transfers, bill pay, ability to open a new savings account on the fly, ability to remote deposit checks via camera snapshot.
Atm network
Mobile/App banking
Ability to have joint account holders: for me and my wife
Unlimited number of savings accounts- this may seem weird but with ING I loved being able to open savings accounts for various needs. here are some that we used: emergency fund, auto fund (gas, sinking fund for new car), home renovation (sinking fund), We had an acct for our Dog and would transfer her $100 a month to cover her expenses, Insurances (sinking fund), Rental Property emergency fund and inflow, etc.

Let me know what my fellow bogleheaders are using and would recommend.

Thanks in advance




Message from Capital One 360......

Hey, Savers. We've got a new name with the same focus: You.
Our name is changing to Capital One 360 and our colors are changing to red and blue – but our commitment to you is staying the same.

Yep, it's true: As of February, we'll have a new name and fresh look on the outside – but on the inside, it's the same ING DIRECT you've come to know and love.

Typically with bank mergers, the things Customers care most about end up being the first things to change. But to us, you're what matters most, and we're going to keep it that way. Because we're not a typical bank, and this isn't a typical merger. So we're going to back up our commitment with a pledge to you, our Customers, about how this business is going to run moving forward.
We'll deliver real value. We'll continue to offer no-fee, no-minimum checking and savings accounts – with the great features and rates that we know are important to you.

We'll always keep it simple. There will always be simple, intuitive digital and mobile access to your accounts.

We'll keep a human touch. We'll talk to you as we always have, with real people here ready to help you.

We'll focus on you. We'll always innovate and improve with you in mind, first and foremost, to create the best Customer experience out there. We'll get things right the first time, and keep challenging ourselves to do them even better.

We are making this pledge to you – and if you feel we're not staying true to it, well, we want you to call us out on it. Do it directly on Twitter @INGDIRECT or even shoot us a personal email. Because you, our Customers, are this business and we intend to keep it that way.

Stay tuned for another update from us next month, or check out our Customer Info Center to keep in the know.
Thanks,
Jim Kelly

ING DIRECT is now a division of Capital One, N.A. ING Bank, fsb, and its subsidiaries, including ShareBuilder Corporation, have been acquired by Capital One Financial Corporation and are no longer affiliated with ING Groep N.V. ("ING"). The trademarks ING, ING DIRECT, ING Lion, and the ING Lion logo, alone or as a part of any trademark, logo, work, or domain name are trademarks of ING and are used by permission.

[29palms]

Time to make a run to your local credit union.

[nisiprius]

Emailed to jim@capitalone.com. If it bounces, I'll figure out some other means of contact.

Subject: Yeah, commitment, right. So how come my interest rate just dropped again?

"Our name is changing to Capital One 360 and our colors are changing to red and blue – but our commitment to you is staying the same."

In the old days, ING Direct seemed to have a bulldog tenacity on paying very close to the highest, if not THE highest interest rates on any banking account. Now, just as you announce that "our commitment to you is staying the same," you drop my interest rate from 0.80% to 0.75%.

Maybe your "commitment" stayed the same, but your interest rate didn't.

These days ING Direct is just paying a mediocre sorta-OK interest rate. Is it even higher than Ally's these days? Click, click: No. They're paying 0.95%.

I have a "reward checking" account in a brick-and-mortar bank here that pays 1.20% up to $25,000 with a few hoops to jump through. Across the street is another bank that has a 1.10% savings-plus-checking account with a $10,000 minimum, no maximum, and the only string attached is that I have to write three checks a month on the account. Five years ago, there was no way that any brick-and-mortar local bank was going to beat ING Direct on anything.

Meanwhile, I'm not quite sure what's happening with TIAA Direct, but IF they open it again to the general public and are still paying 1.20%, I am very seriously considering jumping ship.

Your selling proposition is competitive interest rates. That's what attracted me to you in the first place, that's what keeps me. Quit fiddling around with the colors of your logo and start tending to what matters. If, as you say, you are still committed to me, show me the money.

[tfb]

ING Direct hasn't been paying top rates for several years by now, way before the Capital One acquisition. The rate was lower than Capital One's own savings account before Capital One ended that product. I don't understand why everybody seems to blame Capital One for ING Direct's low rates. The value of using ING Direct isn't top rates. It's convenience and familiarity. If you wanted top rates, you should've moved your money several years ago. If you stayed this long, there must be a reason. That reason hasn't changed.

[snyder66]

Not sure where you live, but our credit unions pay about as well as a bank. Slowly shifting to Ally, much quicker transfers. Has anyone tried Wells Fargo?

[nisiprius]

ING Direct hasn't been paying top rates for several years by now, way before the Capital One acquisition. The rate was lower than Capital One's own savings account before Capital One ended that product. I don't understand why everybody seems to blame Capital One for ING Direct's low rates. The value of using ING Direct isn't top rates. It's convenience and familiarity. If you wanted top rates, you should've moved your money several years ago. If you stayed this long, there must be a reason. That reason hasn't changed.

Ouch! Yes, you're right. (I hate that).

I agree that it hasn't been true for years. I've been doing a slow burn for years. You're almost certainly right that it has nothing to do with Capital One. I wonder what it does have to do with?

I've watched my own behavior with banks and, yes, I have enough inertia to hang in through an 0.5% interest rate differential for several years before I reach the action level. I am not looking forward to trying to remember all the places I have ING Direct's routing number entered and getting them all changed. I am sort of hoping that the local banks and TIAA Direct lower their interest rates enough that the differential will close and I won't have to do anything.

(I like The Netherlands. I like the House of Orange. I like the lion. I am probably among the 0.001% of their customers who will react negatively to the logo change for its own sake. "Je maintiendrai"--I will maintain... high interest rates!)

Yes, I was bellyaching about it in 2010 and posted this chart:

[mackstann]

New name, colors, and a 0.05% rate change? Seems like a non-event to me.

[englishgirl]

Why is this dang you Capital One? Shouldn't it be dang you European Commission? After all, it was the European Commission that forced ING to divest itself of ING Direct.

Google, google: See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 47604.html

ING, of Amsterdam, was ordered by the European Commission to sell the business by 2013 as a condition for government aid it had received during the financial crisis. The forced disposal is part of a wider restructuring plan.

Here's another one: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 43678.html

Somebody had to buy it. It could have been worse. I'm willing to wait a bit longer and see what Capital One does with it.

[Confused]

Not sure where you live, but our credit unions pay about as well as a bank. Slowly shifting to Ally, much quicker transfers. Has anyone tried Wells Fargo?

Wells Fargo's PMA rocks. Branches and ATMs everywhere, unlimited number of checking/savings accounts, free checks / money orders / cashier's checks, free safe deposit box, etc. And they have brownies on Fridays.

[tfb]

I am not looking forward to trying to remember all the places I have ING Direct's routing number entered and getting them all changed. I am sort of hoping that the local banks and TIAA Direct lower their interest rates enough that the differential will close and I won't have to do anything.

Lesson learned is that you use a good-enough place as a hub and link it to everything. Your actual savings can then freely move because it's only linked to the hub. ING's Electric Orange checking (does it have a new name now?) can still serve as this hub.

[4stripes]

Eh, until something really starts to change, I don't see any reason to be worried.

What the Capital One acquisition means for ING Direct

[William4u]

Time to make a run to your local credit union.

Yes. If you can't find a local CU, try Penfed or Alliant cu. Alliant has 80,000 free ATMs, more free ATMs than any bank (except USAA bank, which is also excellent).
http://www.alliantcreditunion.org/about/atms/

[nisiprius]

Now, here's the big question. Are they going to change all of their product names that have the word "Orange" in them? Will it now be "Electric Red and Blue?" "Red and Blue Savings?" I'll bet there are long meetings going on into the wee hours right now trying to hash that out with rival marketers locked in fierce combat.

I am not looking forward to trying to remember all the places I have ING Direct's routing number entered and getting them all changed. I am sort of hoping that the local banks and TIAA Direct lower their interest rates enough that the differential will close and I won't have to do anything.

Lesson learned is that you use a good-enough place as a hub and link it to everything. Your actual savings can then freely move because it's only linked to the hub. ING's Electric Orange checking (does it have a new name now?) can still serve as this hub.

Actually, I'm sorta doing that. I've got all sorts of tricky stuff going, like a scheduled periodic transfer from bank A to ING Direct, followed by a scheduled periodic transfer a few days later from ING Direct to bank B.

But if you haven't noticed, for about a year or so they've been putting this cheery little message on the screen.



Before that, I think it just said "Transfer" rather than "Free Transfer," and they didn't make a point of saying "for FREE, as usual." Call me paranoid, but as they've been saying in the Star Wars thread, "I don't have a good feeling about this." I have the impression that they're softening me up for something in the future. Until it actually happens, of course, I have no gripe. But I have the feeling that the days of using ING Direct as a money pump, "for FREE as usual," may be numbered. The first sign might be be the disappearance of the words "as usual."

Maybe they're just trying to distinguish themselves from the evil fee-sucking competition. If I'm wrong, apologies to ING for my suspicious mind; if I'm right, remember, you heard it here first.

[tfb]

But if you haven't noticed, for about a year or so they've been putting this cheery little message on the screen.



Before that, I think it just said "Transfer" rather than "Free Transfer," and they didn't make a point of saying "for FREE, as usual." Call me paranoid, but as they've been saying in the Star Wars thread, "I don't have a good feeling about this." I have the impression that they're softening me up for something in the future. Until it actually happens, of course, I have no gripe. But I have the feeling that the days of using ING Direct as a money pump, "for FREE as usual," may be numbered. The first sign might be be the disappearance of the words "as usual."

I would call it paranoid but it sounds like this for-profit bank has lost your trust even though it hasn't done anything bad yet. Just to make this a non-issue, maybe slowly transition the hub to Alliant CU. The savings account there doesn't pay meaningfully higher (0.8% vs 0.75%) but the checking account pays 0.75%. You can choose to chase rates with savings elsewhere, wait until TIAA reopens, or just leave everything in checking.

[hicabob]

I like The Netherlands. I like the House of Orange. I like the lion. I am probably among the 0.001% of their customers who will react negatively to the logo change for its own sake. "Je maintiendrai"--I will maintain... high interest rates!)

....... Me too! and don't forget "the ING boot" building in Amsterdam.

[tjstogner]

I just switched from ING to Ally, and I like it better. 24/7 live customer service, daily interest accrued (instead of monthly..), and higher interest rate (0.95%). You can still have savings 'buckets' like with ING. Money magazine last month named them the best online savings bank.

Edit: a couple additional things I appreciate about Ally in comparison to ING:

1. As mentioned before, they give you tons of options to contact them. Instant message, email, 24/7 phones ( "real people" pick up..)
2. You don't need to click a bunch of numbers to sign in (if you have ING you know what I mean) You can make a basic username and password.
3. Everything is right up front. Like, you click on your account and BAM it shows you:
Account Number (see how long it takes you to find this on ING)
Account Type:
Date Opened:
Next Statement Date:
Transactions Remaining:
Current Balance:
Available Balance:
Interest Rate:
Annual Percentage Yield:
Daily Interest Accrued:

What I liked about ING better
1. The $$ incentives. $10 to get a friend to sign up. $50 to open checking. You know, things like that. Maybe that's why they had to lower the interest rates!!
2. The website and iphone app are both a little cleaner.

Ultimately, it's easy to dismiss these trivial things and I'll be happy with Ally until they sell their soul to Capital One as well

[AndroAsc]

daily interest accrued (instead of monthly..)

Doesn't the fact that interest is reported as APY, negates any differences in the interest compounding method (i.e. daily vs monthly)?

[dratkinson]

Roll your own banking:

CU for local presence needs (deposit checks, EF CDs, cash access,...)
HSBC online *high-interest savings (electronic statement)
Presidential Bank *high-interest checking (paper statement)

(* Not like it was.)

All interlinked by free push/pull ACH through HSBC or Vanguard.

[meebers]

Quite a few of my accounts have been "absorbed" by BOA and as of late, Capital One.

[sjb19]

FWIW, I am with nisiprius on this one. It just feels like I am being set up for something undesirable in the future, something which will obviously be touted as some great new feature. That feeling is enough for me to move the majority of my savings back to my credit union. At this point the interest rates are not even that different.

[wjwhitney]

Wow. Bogleheads are normally some of the most level-headed and logical people, but here we have a thread with people moving money around because they "feel like" reduction in interest rates or a decline in customer service might happen.

[ProfessorX]

I moved the bulk of my emergency fund to Ally this week. I'm tired of having my rates reduced. It only took a few minutes to change all of my transfer links at different banks. Got tired of ING reducing my interest rates, etc. Didn't like the feel of the name change.

I am still keeping my ING open with a smaller deposit amount for now...

[LadyGeek]

daily interest accrued (instead of monthly..)

Doesn't the fact that interest is reported as APY, negates any differences in the interest compounding method (i.e. daily vs monthly)?

Yes. For additional details, see the wiki: APR versus APY The number quoted daily or monthly is APR.

I use ING for my savings, but this thread now has me looking at Ally. For CDs, checkout PenFed: Money Market Certificates

[johnny72]

I had Ally accounts for some time but their offerings are sometimes too good to be true and when stuff like this happens it makes me very nervous:

http://thefinancebuff.com/ally-bank-now ... -a-cd.html

[nisiprius]

Wow. Bogleheads are normally some of the most level-headed and logical people, but here we have a thread with people moving money around because they "feel like" reduction in interest rates or a decline in customer service might happen.

To be perfectly clear, I'm just a chronic complainer. ING Direct hasn't done a thing to hurt me yet and I'm certainly not going to take any action unless and until they do. On a couple of occasions when I've contacted customer service, it's been good. I broke a CD with them once, with no problems other than of course paying the known penalty. I joined on the basis of a friend's recommendation and for years recommended them enthusiastically to others. And they kept their interest rate high enough for long enough that I interpreted that as being a real characteristic of the firm.

Now, there are still no problems. It's just a run-of-the-mill Internet bank paying a mediocre interest rate.

If someone were shopping I would now recommend "looking at online banks," rather than "looking at ING DIrect."

I just get irritated at all the have-it-both-ways nonsense--nothing has changed when in fact things are too changing. Or, perhaps, already changed years ago. I have negative feelings about some big-name national financial institutions but Capital One doesn't happen to be one of them--we have their credit card, for example.

[KyleAAA]

I don't really have enough in my EF to care all that much about getting the absolute highest rates.as long as they don't mess up the interface and the service doesn't go downhill, I doubt I'll switch.

[Village Idiot]

I don't know what the big deal is? I have ING and until they show me that they will change for the worst I will stay. If they go the way of big banks just change. Simple.

[wjwhitney]

By the way, I have accounts at both Ally and ING Direct, and can move money around at will. I keep money at ING because I have family members that also have money there and it's very handy for person-to-person payments.

As mentioned, at the moment ING Direct is paying 0.75% and Ally is paying 0.95% on savings. If you want to know how much difference that makes, and how long it will take you to "break even" (assuming your money does not earn interest for a day or two during the transfer), Jonathan at mymoneyblog.com has a calculator here: http://www.mymoneyblog.com/the-ultimate-interest-rate-chaser-calculator.html

[nisiprius]

By the way, I have accounts at both Ally and ING Direct, and can move money around at will. I keep money at ING because I have family members that also have money there and it's very handy for person-to-person payments.

As mentioned, at the moment ING Direct is paying 0.75% and Ally is paying 0.95% on savings. If you want to know how much difference that makes, and how long it will take you to "break even" (assuming your money does not earn interest for a day or two during the transfer), Jonathan at mymoneyblog.com has a calculator here: http://www.mymoneyblog.com/the-ultimate-interest-rate-chaser-calculator.html

A couple of years ago I got about $140 in free money in a so-called "Black Friday" deal from ING Direct for trying out their Electric Orange pseudo-checking account. It appears that, given my balance, that's equivalent to about four years' interest at 0.2%. That was a couple of years ago so I suppose in fairness I should wait another couple of years before doing anything.

[tfb]

That was a couple of years ago so I suppose in fairness I should wait another couple of years before doing anything.

Sunk cost fallacy?

[swyck]

ING Direct hasn't been paying top rates for several years by now, way before the Capital One acquisition. The rate was lower than Capital One's own savings account before Capital One ended that product. I don't understand why everybody seems to blame Capital One for ING Direct's low rates. The value of using ING Direct isn't top rates. It's convenience and familiarity. If you wanted top rates, you should've moved your money several years ago. If you stayed this long, there must be a reason. That reason hasn't changed.

Yes, it has. As of 11/1/2012 ING customers are now under Capital One's privacy policy.
https://home.ingdirect.com/capitalone/privacy-policy

I liked ING and the convenience and functionality was a big reason, thought the original reason I joined were the rates. Another reason was a hassle free environment. Less privacy = more marketing = more hassle = things have changed.

I immediately closed my ING account upon receipt of the privacy notification.

[aubpri]

Thanks for all the input. I originally went with ING because of the rates but found to love the simplicity of their online platform. I plan to keep my active accounts that I use frequently but will move my other accounts that are static so that I can get a little better rate. Plan on giving ally a shot

[wjwhitney]

I immediately closed my ING account upon receipt of the privacy notification.

What is it that you found disturbing about the privacy policy?

[swyck]

I immediately closed my ING account upon receipt of the privacy notification.

What is it that you found disturbing about the privacy policy?

Everything. I already get enough spam and unsolicited phone calls and I don't like marketing period.

The main question is WHY should I remain a customer? It used to be the high rates that ING paid. Then I stayed because it was a hassle free place to stash my money. Now add the low rates to the marketing, and the answer becomes no reason.

What valuable service are they giving me in return for their use of my information for their gain? None.

[cubby08]

I just transferred my Efund from ING to my checking acct, and will move it to Ally once it arrives. Not an enormous amt ~20K, but I had a horrible series of customer service experiences with capital one 10 yrs ago, and I have no intention of using them again.

[wjwhitney]

I immediately closed my ING account upon receipt of the privacy notification.

What is it that you found disturbing about the privacy policy?

Everything.

Just received the new privacy policy today. I see no substantial difference between the old and new. As with the former policy, they will not share information with 3rd parties unless you opt-in. They can send marketing for their own products, and ING did that too.

[swyck]

I immediately closed my ING account upon receipt of the privacy notification.

What is it that you found disturbing about the privacy policy?

Everything.

Just received the new privacy policy today. I see no substantial difference between the old and new. As with the former policy, they will not share information with 3rd parties unless you opt-in. They can send marketing for their own products, and ING did that too.

Incorrect.

First they share everything about you, including with 3rd parties. You cannot opt out of having your data shared with 3rd parties, just with those 3rd parties marketing your data themselves. All sharing options are in effect by default until you opt out.

Me I don't trust them to not have loopholes around that, or do it and then apologize for doing it.

[marcos123]

+1 for major shift of funds from ING to Ally

The only reason that did not completely close out of ING Direct: the bank card Fee for Foreign Transactions decreased from 2.2% (exclusive of Visa and MC; total charge around 3%) to 0%.

But query to Capital One bankcard holders: does Capital One actually eat the Visa/MC forex fee (for ATM transactions)??

If not, we're still looking at a 1% forex fee ... and there are better cards out there, so may yet close out of ING....

[Dandy]

My understanding was ING US was set up with a mission to capture $x of the US market. It used a very good web site and set of services along with better savings rates to accomplish that goal. When the Corp ING began to have the european fiancial trouble the mission changed and we saw a reduction in rates below other online competitors. I was attracted to ING toward the end of its higher interest rates along with Ally and Discover banks. Dropped out of ING in favor of the other two several years ago.

Capital One may actually be a better owner than ING if it is serious about expanding online banking -- since that may up their rates. They also recently purchased the former GM credit card business from HSBC.

Aside from service - which is important - banking, especially online banking is all about rates. Money is money and FDIC is FDIC. We all have some irrational practices about money. Some of us go out of our way to get gas for a few cents less per gallon but leave money in Prime when we could earn more at on line banks. Inertia, habit, simplicity, comfort, time etc all play a part. Currently, I have money sitting in a no interest checking acct because I can't decide whether to open a Pentagon Cr Union CD or just open another in Ally or Discover. Do I really want a 4th bank/CU? But it is worth more than $100/yr? But that is before taxes--But it is 30 basis points more? Oh well I'm thankful I have money.

[nisiprius]

Things are not off to a good start.



OK, fair's fair, five minutes later I tried again and got in.

[ProfessorX]

I recently dumped ING/CapitalOne for Ally Bank. I realize that it is only a .2% interest rate difference right now, and given the low interest rates it will take a while to recoup the lost interest during the time it took to transfer my funds etc. But I feel better about Ally bank, and they seem currently committed to maintaining competitive interest rates which no longer seems to be the case at Capital 360.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

What's in your wallet?

[Faith20879]

does Capital One actually eat the Visa/MC forex fee (for ATM transactions)??

We are also in the process of looking for an answer. Due to the huge parity in their clerk competency, we plan to ask 5 different clerks before we can be sure. So far, we’ve asked two (one at a branch and one from the phone center) and got both yes and no. Will keep you posted of any further findings.

Regards,
Faith

[stemikger]

New name, colors, and a 0.05% rate change? Seems like a non-event to me.

+1

This dosen't matter to me. I use them for an EF and my only concern is how simple it is to transfer my money both to Capital One and to my brick and mortar bank. An EF is not for making money it is to get liquid cash in case of an emergency.

[Gnirk]

Capital One dropped their Costco affiliation on December 31st, and their Savings Plus interest rate from .75% to .50% (I am currently earning .05% on a balance under $100 and I need to transfer it out). So, I opened an account at Ally, which pays .95%. So far, so good.

[ThirteenEleven]

I just switched to Barclays new online u.s. bank. 1.0% apy. It's basic and simple. No app yet. I was with ING for years but the apy kept going down and I bailed once Capitol one took over.

[Johm221122]

New name, colors, and a 0.05% rate change? Seems like a non-event to me.

+1

This dosen't matter to me. I use them for an EF and my only concern is how simple it is to transfer my money both to Capital One and to my brick and mortar bank. An EF is not for making money it is to get liquid cash in case of an emergency.

+1 just keep 1 month income there for 1st tier EF, could live 2 months off this money.
John