Bogleheads not found easily in Google

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dratkinson
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Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

Generally I've told people the easiest way to find this forum is to search google for "investment forum" and pick the first non-ad link. Just for grins decided to come in that way today. No joy.

"Bogleheads" now appear on page 4 of google search. Top-ranked searches now appear to be hot dealsl/stocks, world, or market segment related.

Curious as to possible explanation for what seems to me to an overnight shift. Will need to change methodology for recommending google search, or abandon it all together as "diehards.org/forum" now seems to be much easier to recommend.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

I ran the search on Google just now and Bogleheads was the first non-sponsored result.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Busting Myths »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:I ran the search on Google just now and Bogleheads was the first non-sponsored result.
PJW
Same here.

OP, the easiest way to find this forum via google search is "Bogleheads"
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runner9
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by runner9 »

1st response here as well.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by mptfan »

Same here, I typed "bogleheads" into google and this forum was the first search result.
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runner9
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by runner9 »

Bogleheads should be 1st when Bogleheads is tried, the OP is trying to type "investment forum" and get Bogleheads to come up.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Investments got me fidelity (non ad) and vanguard and no Bogleheads

Investments forum was Bogleheads as #2. Morningstar was #1
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barnaclebob
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by barnaclebob »

its possible that google optimizes for what it thinks you are most likely to want to see. When I search "investment forum" bogleheads comes up first. The trick is to try it from a computer of an edward jones client.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by White Coat Investor »

You guys are aware that Google results are personalized, right? But I still get Bogleheads as the first result for "investment forum" whether the results are personalized or non-personalized.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by tadamsmar »

EmergDoc wrote:You guys are aware that Google results are personalized, right? But I still get Bogleheads as the first result for "investment forum" whether the results are personalized or non-personalized.
How do you search non-personalized?
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ryuns
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by ryuns »

BH is also the first result when searching investment forum in Bing and Yahoo.
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dratkinson
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

Assuming I did something wrong, tried it again. Google still putting Bogleheads on page 4 when searching for "investment forum". Seems to be the opposite of a personalized search. :annoyed

Searching for "bogleheads" works correctly. But have always assumed it might be more easily forgotten by someone I was trying to direct here. Don't always have pencil/paper handy, so wanted something easy for them to remember.

Tried searching for "bogle investment forum". That works: Bogleheads first. Guess I can hope they don't forget the "bogle" part.

Both "diehards investment forum" and "diehard investment forum" bring up Bogleheads first.

"Vanguard investment forum" brings up Vanguard Investments Canada first, and Bogleheads second.

Guess "diehards investment forum" will be my new memory phrase, until I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

But glad to hear it's just me having this trouble. Means others I've tried to direct here probably found it.
Last edited by dratkinson on Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Angst
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Angst »

Try logging out of anything Google, delete all cookies, then do the search.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by nisiprius »

Googling on investment forum, no quotes, gives me Bogleheads as the first non-sponsored hit. In quotes... same thing.

I think "bogleheads" is a better search term, however, and don't worry about spelling:

Image

"Bogle" does not work, though, you need the "heads." After "Bogle Vineyards" I then get a long page of relevant links, about half to John C. Bogle himself, about half to various other people and things named Bogle.

DuckDuckGo, investment forum, Bogleheads Forum is the first no-sponsored link.
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Afty
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Afty »

For me in an incognito window (no personalization), Googling for investment forum returns Bogleheads as the first result. It's possible your searches are being hijacked by adware or malware on your computer. It's unlikely that personalization would push a result down from #1 to the 4th page.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by jackholloway »

BH is the top non sponsored link either personalized or with a chrome incognito window.

Was this typed in at the Google site, or in a browser search box? If the former, I am thinking spyware.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

jackholloway wrote:BH is the top non sponsored link either personalized or with a chrome incognito window.

Was this typed in at the Google site, or in a browser search box? If the former, I am thinking spyware.
Spyware? great. Will try running my last copy of Ad-Aware.


Step 1.

I'm typing in a Firefox browser search box: a Firefox add-on that claims to let you select from multiple search engines, but defaulted to google.

This is the URL returned when I search for "investment forum":
http://www.google.ca/search?q=investmen ... sATEmID4Ag

Believe it's safe to mouse-over above URL to see full string. If not then open this reply as a "quote" to see full string.


Step 2.

When I tell CCleaner to remove cookies---I found one listed as "google.ca"---it does.


Step 3.

When I go directly to google.com it is redirected to open as google.ca (Canada). What up with that, eh?

This is the URL I get when google opens:
http://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=dH9m ... 8weXi4DIDw

When I search directly in google, this is the URL/search string I'm getting .
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA&so ... arch&gbv=1

and Bogleheads is on page 4.



Repeating steps 1-3, I get the same results.

Curiouser and curiouser.

I did have a pizza with Canadian bacon and pineapple last week, but I didn't apply to change my citizenship or google search default.

Have not yet tried re-running Ad-Aware. Will do it later as it takes a while.




Full disclosure. This PC is a '90s-vintage Dell GXa P2 running Win98SE, FireFox v2. Thinking its time to upgrade and waiting for Christmas sales to buy a laptop. Find it hard to believe old age alone is causing this problem on what has been an otherwise bullet-proof machine.
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Afty
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Afty »

Ah, you're right that google.ca puts Bogleheads on the 4th page, which actually makes sense as all of the results on the first page are Canada-specific. The real question seems to be, why are you getting redirected to google.ca? Here are some suggested fixes from the Google support page:
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/873?hl=en
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bottomfisher
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by bottomfisher »

I'm also of the opinion Google results are personalized. I frequently Google various investment/finance associated terms and topics. Bogleheads threads are always at the top of these Google searches. At first I attributed this to Google engineers being Bogleheads... then I realized they may not necessarily be...rather just looking over my shoulder...
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dratkinson
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

Afty wrote:Ah, you're right that google.ca puts Bogleheads on the 4th page, which actually makes sense as all of the results on the first page are Canada-specific. The real question seems to be, why are you getting redirected to google.ca? Here are some suggested fixes from the Google support page:
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/873?hl=en
Thanks. Using google.com/ncr seems to have fixed my problem. But I notice google.ca is listed on the bottom right of the opened google screen. Above linked google information says google.com should be there. So maybe this is only a temporary fix.

So my telling people to search for "investment forum" still works, and is simple to remember. [happy dance]
Last edited by dratkinson on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by nisiprius »

Ah. Yes, on a recent trip to Canada all my Google searches from were automagically run through google.ca instead of google.com. I was using a Kindle Fire tablet with Amazon's Silk browser and just typing in the search term. Location services were turned off, but I guess it knew what country I was in. It was completely unimportant and I wanted Canadian results anyway so I didn't try to figure out what was happening or how to force google.com.
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jackholloway
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by jackholloway »

Hmmm. Where (roughly) are you physically located, and who is your ISP? If Google is redirecting to the Canada site, that sounds like someone thinks you are there. It remains to be seen who.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by The Wizard »

I'm in Jamaica and the same investment forum search using google.com.JM returns Bogleheads at the top of page six...
Attempted new signature...
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Pizzasteve510 »

"investment discussion forum" search on my iPad and BH was third item listed after Motley fool and Morningstar. No sponsors listed.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Mudpuppy »

For those getting sent to regional search sites, it's probably geolocation from the IP address. This is not a perfect technique, but everyone has to give their IP address (you can't get data delivered without IP addresses), so the IP address is available even when more precise location methods are turned off.

Usually geolocation is based off the data the ISP makes public or off the region in which the netblock is registered, so mistakes can be made, particularly if you land in a netblock that recently changed (e.g. sold to another ISP or just reallocated internally and the public data doesn't reflect that yet).

If the geolocation is wildly off, you get sent to foreign landing sites without ever having left the country. For my ISP, it sometimes thinks I'm on the East Coast instead of in California.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

New day. New boot. First google search after http://www.google.com/ncr fix and I'm back at google.ca .

N.B. google.com/ncr does not work. Must use www.google.com/ncr and it does work.

My dialup ISP is All2Easy and believe they are in CAlifornia. But don't think that's the problem.

My old PC/browser is no longer supported by google so can't change my location setting. But I can keep using the temporary fix until I buy a new one.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by VortexStreet »

dratkinson wrote:Full disclosure. This PC is a '90s-vintage Dell GXa P2 running Win98SE, FireFox v2. Thinking its time to upgrade and waiting for Christmas sales to buy a laptop. Find it hard to believe old age alone is causing this problem on what has been an otherwise bullet-proof machine.
Wait, FireFox TWO? :shock: You are a braver person than I connecting a machine like that to the internet! On topic: searching investment forum from the (google) search bar in FireFox 33 yields bogleheads as the first no-ad result for me.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by autonomy »

dratkinson wrote: Full disclosure. This PC is a '90s-vintage Dell GXa P2 running Win98SE, FireFox v2. Thinking its time to upgrade and waiting for Christmas sales to buy a laptop. Find it hard to believe old age alone is causing this problem on what has been an otherwise bullet-proof machine.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Tell us, when you attempt to watch a Youtube video, do you simple see a slideshow? Does it take 2 minutes to load a webpage? I can't even imagine... modern javascript-bloated webpages can bring down a 5-year-old PC... WINDOWS 98???????

/Google search results are personalized - your geographical area, then your account.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by hiddensee »

dratkinson wrote:Full disclosure. This PC is a '90s-vintage Dell GXa P2 running Win98SE, FireFox v2. Thinking its time to upgrade and waiting for Christmas sales to buy a laptop. Find it hard to believe old age alone is causing this problem on what has been an otherwise bullet-proof machine.
Don't throw it away. In five years it will be an antique.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by Mudpuppy »

dratkinson wrote:My dialup ISP is All2Easy and believe they are in CAlifornia. But don't think that's the problem.
It's not the ISP in particular. It's the netblocks used by the ISP. When you are dealing with an ISP that has multiple locations like All2Easy, it simply takes them transferring a netblock that was previously in Canada over to California without updating the geolocation information.

Here is a Wikipedia article explaining how geolocation from IP addresses works in general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address_location

To find out if this is happening to you, search for "what's my IP" and Google will tell you. Then plug that IP into a few geolocation services and see if they say California or Canada. I would suspect many will say Canada if All2Easy recently moved a Canadian netblock to your location.

Edit: If it is the IP address, getting a new computer won't help you unless you also get a new ISP service. You'll still have the IP address that many places believe is from Canada. You might be able to store the Google cookie to fix it there, but it won't fix everywhere until the ISP updates its information. Calling up the ISP is the next step if geolocation services say you're in Canada.
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Re: Bogleheads not found easily in Google

Post by dratkinson »

New day. New boot. And Bogleheads is again back as first non-ad link on page one. Yea!

Yesterday I noticed that I'd forgotten to tell CCleaner to save the new google cookies after the http://www.google.com/ncr fix. Corrected that yesterday. So today the FireFox search tool ("What's my IP address") brings up google.com. (Interesting stuff. One site thinks I'm in Texas. Another thinks I'm in Maryland.)



Online videos? No problem. They work great... from my public library.

I hadn't thought it was dangerous to use this old PC on the internet. Why? Because it has always worked. Everyday. The newer websites just... left me. I couldn't see them. But I agree with you, a machine this old, without all the supporting old internet tools would be asking for trouble. No way would I do that.

Long story short. This old machine still works because there was never a time when it didn't work. I've saved all of the supplementary tools (the last version that worked: CCleaner v1, FireFox v2, Adobe Reader v6, ZoneAlarm v3, SpinRite v6, ...) to an Updates directory and back up everything. So I've always been able to rebuild it from CDROM+Updates when it crashed. But it stopped crashing many years ago, after I started using SpinRite.



Yes, Firefox v2 does hang up sometimes due to a script being unable to complete. But I've always assumed that was a good thing. It was either a benign script that hung... expected. Or a malicious script that could not complete... a very good thing.

ZoneAlarm prevents surreptitious port attacks. And I don't mess with untrusted emails or links.

Bogleheads forum. No problems noted.

Gmail. I access it in "basic HTML" mode. That means it loads fast, and I get no ads. Yes, I do lose the fancy text formatting features. Not a serious problem.

Excel. Gummy's Excel script still works to download the Yahoo *.csv file of daily fund prices. So I can continue to track/manage my investments.

Vanguard. Transactions are handled by phone. Easy work around, so not a serious problem.

Government pay DFAS website. No problems noted.

If I can't search/find something on the internet, then I go to the public library and use their's. I keep a list of searches, then when I go to the library, it gives me a chance to pick up a new book. Two birds, one stone, so not a problem.

My only real problem has been tax software, so I'm buying a new laptop for that. Don't really like doing taxes so the thought of using pencil/paper makes me cringe.



I do recognize that I should migrate everything over to a newer machine. I just hate biting the bullet to re-buy software (office suite) and hardware (scanner, printer), to get me back to where I am.

Yes, I looked at an older version of Open Office. Its Excel-equivalent functions didn't work the same way, so might need to recode some of my 12MB investment management file. Not looking forward to that, at all. But then again, maybe that incompatibility has been resolved in newer versions of OO. I could live with OO, if so.

I've been told that if the new machine will run in "Windows compatibility" mode, then I might be able to just move over all of my old software and re-host it on the new machine. That would be great. If anyone can tell me the words to say to a salesman, so I buy the correct version of Windows, that would be appreciated.



All, thanks for the help.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
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