fiscal cliff/forum policy question

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fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby letsgobobby » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:13 pm

In 4 days we will potentially be over the cliff. At that point, it is going to be permissible to discuss actual, current taxes as they impact our personal investments? I understand not having allowed that sort of thing in the last few weeks, but if it becomes actual policy we will need to make actual investment/allocation decisions - no hypotheticals at all. If someone's dividend tax rate goes from 15% to 44%, that needs to be discussed, addressed, one way or another.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby livesoft » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:46 pm

I don't see why not, so I expect some great discussions starting at midnight December 31st eastern time. sscritic will have a wait though a few hours since taxes will still be lower on the west coast then.
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby bUU » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:57 pm

As far as I could tell from previous threads that touched on this, it is permissible to talk about things in the context of what the law says tax rates will be in 2013, right now (i.e., no speculating about changes to the law that may or may not be effected).
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby letsgobobby » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:25 pm

no, that topic was placed off limits until resolution of the cliff, rightly so I think given the uncertainty of any final deal. But it would seem to change the equation if we actually enter 2013 under the laws currently legislated.
Last edited by letsgobobby on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby The Wizard » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:28 pm

Changed my mind.
After things are a done deed, they should indeed be discussable here...
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby Calm Man » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:06 pm

It appears as though there is a strong possibility that nothing changes before the end of they year and even if there is a tweak that it might change again. So this may be off limits for a long time unless the moderators permit discussion under existing law, which I think is policy of the forum.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby LadyGeek » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:11 pm

Here's the thread: Subject: Future Tax Rate Questions are Off Topic Until Congress Acts

Alex Frakt wrote:There have been a large number of threads recently ostensibly about future tax rates, especially marginal rates. Given the current situation - that this is an area of current debate, the outcome of which cannot be foretold - such posts amount to nothing more than speculating over proposed legislation which is not an acceptable topic on this site.

Once the dust has settled and we have a set of laws upon which people can take action, we will reopen the topic.

Yes, a lot of things are going to happen quickly. The key point is "have a set of laws" which means that the legislation was passed. Until then, it will remain off-topic.

Existing law is fine.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby stan1 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:16 pm

It would be very short sighted to take long term action based on what happens at Midnight on Jan 1, and I'm not sure what short term actions you could take short of calling up a bookie to place bets on when and what will finally get resolved . Nothing is happening at Midnight Jan 1 to the reduce uncertainty of 2013. Yes, the law changes, but odds are very high at least part of it will change later in the year. Which parts change and stay are still a speculative discussion. No one is going to complain about a retroactive tax reduction.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby letsgobobby » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:31 pm

stan1 wrote:It would be very short sighted to take long term action based on what happens at Midnight on Jan 1, and I'm not sure what short term actions you could take short of calling up a bookie to place bets on when and what will finally get resolved . Nothing is happening at Midnight Jan 1 to the reduce uncertainty of 2013. Yes, the law changes, but odds are very high at least part of it will change later in the year. Which parts change and stay are still a speculative discussion. No one is going to complain about a retroactive tax reduction.


It seems to me it's more speculative to speculate that things will change, tham to discuss what is actually law at the moment. It was a little awkward this fall not being able to solicit feedback from forum members about how to handle things that might/might not occur on 1/1, but understandable because of the risks vis a vis forum policy and the neutrality the forum has successfully maintained. However, I still had to make decisions about money. You can always say laws will change, and in fact we are sure they will, but that could be true this year or any other.

LadyGeek, does 'existing law' mean the laws that exist on 1/1?
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby stan1 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:48 pm

Careful -- I don't think we want the board to get into a situation where its OK to give advice to people based off law that exists on Jan 1 2013 and yet a thread gets locked because someone opines that its premature to make changes based on the current law because there could be pending legislation. "Stay the course" is a key tennet around here.

I think all 2012/2013 tax/fiscal cliff discussion should be off-topic for a little while longer by invoking the "not actionable" subheading of the unallowed topics.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby MathWizard » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:00 pm

Since things are all over the place, I don't see how we could have a meaningful discussion.

You can only work with current information. Keep putting money in tax advantaged
accounts. That shuld be good in any case.

Choosing between a TIRA and a ROTH depends on your personal tax rates and
what you expect future rates to be. Use the same logic for any other financial decisions
you might want to make this Dec 31 or any other time.

The only thing that I can imagine would be permissible/appropriate is a list of what will be expiring
under current law. (Not a discussion of whether it should or not, or whether it probably will or not.)
I have not kept up and did not know of the entire list. Perhaps just a link to an authoritative site,
or blog, so that any discussions don't clutter up this site.
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Re: fiscal cliff/forum policy question

Postby Mel Lindauer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm

We've beat this to death, so I'm locking this thread. Basically, the "Fiscal Cliff" topic is still off limits for now.
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