Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Local Chapters, Wiki, and general Bogleheads community discussion, news, events, and announcements

Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:29 am

I tried to post this on the Wiki forum, but the suggestions thread is locked and I didn't have a button to post a new topic. Sorry if this post is in the wrong place.

I was linking to the back door article a few minutes ago and noticed the title is "Backdoor Roth IRA". Seems to me there is no such thing. Just as there is no "deductible IRA". Shouldn't it be titled "back door contributions to Roth IRA"?
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby EmergDoc » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:03 am

I'm not positive, but I believe TFB is responsible for the name. Blame him.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
User avatar
EmergDoc
 
Posts: 10204
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:01 am

Not really looking for someone to blame.

But I am wondering if others think it should be changed. :wink:
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby EmergDoc » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:06 am

If you don't like that one, you're really going to be against "The Backdoor Both."

You can count me in as one who doesn't think it needs to be changed.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
User avatar
EmergDoc
 
Posts: 10204
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:22 am

It's not an official term used by the IRS, so we can call it what we want. Better still, let's call it what others call it and know it by. I just googled backdoor roth and got lots of results. They tend to say funding a backdoor roth, not backdoor funding of a roth.

And I think backdoor is backdoor, not back door.

OK, let's test that theory

backdoor roth gets 700,000 results
back door roth gets over 2 million, but most of the first hits use backdoor. Hmm. Not very reliable data.

Let's use quotes
"backdoor roth" gets 12,000 results, and back door gets more, but many of those use back-door, and one of the articles that google claimed had back door didn't when actually searched. Google likes to substitute its own judgment of what you are looking for rather than believe you when you tell it what you are looking for. I guess I should use Duck Duck Go, which claims to do unadulterated searches, just as you enter them.
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:34 am

But isn't one of the functions of a Wiki to be technically correct as opposed to colloquial?
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:41 am

EmergDoc wrote:I'm not positive, but I believe TFB is responsible for the name. Blame him.

Ohhhhh, backing up here, this might mean something other than what I thought.

I thought you meant tfb wrote the Wiki page. But maybe you are saying that tfb actually first named the process? If that's the case, then that's the name and even if technically bent it's the name and that's the name we should use. :D

Fine with me.
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:53 am

retiredjg wrote:But isn't one of the functions of a Wiki to be technically correct as opposed to colloquial?

So what is the official IRS term for this procedure? Or are you thinking of another "technical" when it comes to taxes? Or is this an issue of the technicality of grammar?

Fund a backdoor roth
Backdoor a fund roth
Fund a roth backdoor
a roth fund backdoor
backdoor fund a roth

Let's see; the number of permutations of 4 items is 24 as I recall.
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby The Wizard » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:27 am

Why not just re-label it "Super Secret Roth Strategy" per this silly article at MarketWatch?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/super- ... 2012-11-29
Attempted new signature...
The Wizard
 
Posts: 6602
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby LadyGeek » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:54 am

retiredjg wrote:I tried to post this on the Wiki forum, but the suggestions thread is locked and I didn't have a button to post a new topic. Sorry if this post is in the wrong place.

I was linking to the back door article a few minutes ago and noticed the title is "Backdoor Roth IRA". Seems to me there is no such thing. Just as there is no "deductible IRA". Shouldn't it be titled "back door contributions to Roth IRA"?

This thread is now in the Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community forum, to discuss the wiki. Sorry, but the Suggestions for the Wiki thread isn't locked (as I see it). Is there a problem?

Wiki article link: Backdoor Roth IRA

Taken in context:
Wiki wrote:A Backdoor Roth IRA is a technique for contributing to a Roth IRA when your income exceeds the contribution limit. There is no income limit on contributing to a nondeductible Traditional IRA, nor on converting a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA.[1]
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
 
Posts: 20012
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:47 am

sscritic wrote:
retiredjg wrote:But isn't one of the functions of a Wiki to be technically correct as opposed to colloquial?

So what is the official IRS term for this procedure?

I doubt that the IRS has a name for this procedure. I suppose they might call it a "non-deductible contribution to traditional IRA that is converted to Roth IRA for the purpose of getting money into Roth IRA when you make too much money to contribute directly to Roth IRA".

I just didn't think the title and some of the wording was very accurate. Maybe that's grammar, but I think it is something else. The Roth IRA itself isn't "backdoor" or "back door". It is the contribution that gets into the Roth IRA through a back door or backdoor. Just like an IRA isn't deductible or non-deductible. It's the contribution that is deductible or non-deductible.

But, I had thought the Wiki was just worded in a slightly imprecise fashion and maybe should be improved a little. Maybe "Backdoor Roth IRA" is the actual name someone gave it. If that's the case, that's probably the name the Wiki should have.
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:56 am

LadyGeek wrote:This thread is now in the Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community forum, to discuss the wiki. Sorry, but the Suggestions for the Wiki thread isn't locked (as I see it). Is there a problem?

Thank you. There isn't a problem. I found the wrong one - under Wiki and Reference Library, the thread Suggestions for Librarians. I didn't think that was the right one since it was locked over a year ago, but I could not find the right one. I know where to look now. :D
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:56 am

What about "Opening a backdoor to a Roth IRA" or just "Backdoor to a Roth IRA"? That's what we are talking about; all that about your intention and whether you are above the limit for a direct contribution to a Roth are irrelevant. Even if you are eligible for a Roth IRA, you can still follow the procedure. Admittedly, you are adding some extra steps that you don't really need, but you can use the backdoor or the front, at least that's the choice I have at my house.

And if Backdoor to a Roth IRA is too long, just leave out the "to a." :)
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:01 pm

More great titles:

Roth IRA Backdoor
or
Backdoor, Roth IRA

We could even have a whole category full of Backdoors.
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:25 pm

Oh my, you must be really bored this morning. Too much coffee and no Chinese Soaps on Saturday? :D

My suggestion, if anyone is interested, would be "Back Door Contributions to Roth IRA" since that is exactly what it is. To my knowledge, "backdoor" is a computer term. Whether it is a better description than "back door", I don't know or care. So "Backdoor Contributions to Roth IRA" would be just as good in my book. I certainly have no opposition to "Roth IRA Backdoor" (quite accurate) or "Backdoor, Roth IRA" (also quite accurate).

My irritation was with "Backdoor Roth IRA" since there is no such thing (unless that's the name it was originally given in which case we should probably use it even if it is not very precise).
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:37 pm

retiredjg wrote:Oh my, you must be really bored this morning. Too much coffee and no Chinese Soaps on Saturday? :D

My suggestion, if anyone is interested, would be "Back Door Contributions to Roth IRA" since that is exactly what it is. To my knowledge, "backdoor" is a computer term. Whether it is a better description than "back door", I don't know or care. So "Backdoor Contributions to Roth IRA" would be just as good in my book. I certainly have no opposition to "Roth IRA Backdoor" (quite accurate) or "Backdoor, Roth IRA" (also quite accurate).

My irritation was with "Backdoor Roth IRA" since there is no such thing (unless that's the name it was originally given in which case we should probably use it even if it is not very precise).

Not enough coffee, and the soaps I watch aren't running on the weekend, although I just finished episode 74 out of 80 of one I am watching on the internet. Since there are no OTA soaps today, I should be able to finish another three or four episodes today and the rest of the series tomorrow. The great thing about soaps on the internet is that most have no commercial breaks. However, I just stop every five to ten minutes and take a boglehead break, like this one. Now back to episode 75.
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby retiredjg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:04 pm

sscritic wrote:
retiredjg wrote:Oh my, you must be really bored this morning. Too much coffee and no Chinese Soaps on Saturday? :D

My suggestion, if anyone is interested, would be "Back Door Contributions to Roth IRA" since that is exactly what it is. To my knowledge, "backdoor" is a computer term. Whether it is a better description than "back door", I don't know or care. So "Backdoor Contributions to Roth IRA" would be just as good in my book. I certainly have no opposition to "Roth IRA Backdoor" (quite accurate) or "Backdoor, Roth IRA" (also quite accurate).

My irritation was with "Backdoor Roth IRA" since there is no such thing (unless that's the name it was originally given in which case we should probably use it even if it is not very precise).

Not enough coffee, and the soaps I watch aren't running on the weekend, although I just finished episode 74 out of 80 of one I am watching on the internet. Since there are no OTA soaps today, I should be able to finish another three or four episodes today and the rest of the series tomorrow. The great thing about soaps on the internet is that most have no commercial breaks. However, I just stop every five to ten minutes and take a boglehead break, like this one. Now back to episode 75.

I just did that with 4 seasons of Breaking Bad. Enjoy!
retiredjg
 
Posts: 18474
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby fundtalker123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:50 pm

I suggest it simply be called "Mechanism to insure that each and every American has equal opportunity to contribute to a Roth IRA"
User avatar
fundtalker123
 
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:18 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:53 pm

fundtalker123 wrote:I suggest it simply be called "Mechanism to insure that each and every American has equal opportunity to contribute to a Roth IRA"

Sorry, you are wrong. I have no earned income. I can not contribute to an IRA or any kind, front door, backdoor, Roth, traditional, deductible, or non-deductible. If you want equal opportunity, you have to change the law to give each and every American equal opportunity, not just those that are more equal than others.
sscritic
 
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby fundtalker123 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:59 pm

sscritic wrote:
fundtalker123 wrote:I suggest it simply be called "Mechanism to insure that each and every American has equal opportunity to contribute to a Roth IRA"

Sorry, you are wrong. I have no earned income. I can not contribute to an IRA or any kind, front door, backdoor, Roth, traditional, deductible, or non-deductible. If you want equal opportunity, you have to change the law to give each and every American equal opportunity, not just those that are more equal than others.


Agreed!
User avatar
fundtalker123
 
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:18 am

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby Epsilon Delta » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:06 pm

sscritic wrote:
fundtalker123 wrote:I suggest it simply be called "Mechanism to insure that each and every American has equal opportunity to contribute to a Roth IRA"

Sorry, you are wrong. I have no earned income. I can not contribute to an IRA or any kind, front door, backdoor, Roth, traditional, deductible, or non-deductible. If you want equal opportunity, you have to change the law to give each and every American equal opportunity, not just those that are more equal than others.


The law gives you an equal opportunity to get a job.
User avatar
Epsilon Delta
 
Posts: 3534
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Re: Wiki Topic "Back Door Roth IRA"

Postby travellight » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:37 pm

seems to me it should be back door rather than backdoor.
travellight
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: San Diego


Return to Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests