Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Topic Author
Leesbro63
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Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

Ok, so here is my situation...I could you some input: I am 52 and have some health issues that are not expected to do me in any time soon, but my life expectancy with what I have is 71 years. I am very aware of my mortality. I have accumulated a nice chunk of nest egg over the years from business and other sources (as some of you may have noted from my post) and have done very well being a DO IT YOURSELFer in all aspects of personal finance. Much of that I owe to you folks, by the way, thank you! I've been following BOGLEHEADS since it was DIEHARDS on MORNINGSTAR in 1998 or 9, (although I have never attended a BOGLEHEADS reunion) and got "indexing religion" about that time. I sold my business and my portfolio is on auto-pilot, really, with a model (more or less) BOGLEHEAD portfolio. There are no complicated business interests. Just readily marketable index funds and ETFs.

I have a wife(49), daughter(22 graduating with a good job lined up) and a son(17). Also I have a younger single brother (50) and a good friend (60), both who consider themselves BOGLEHEADS and are close confidants. I also have parents (77 and 75). Dad is in poor health (heart) and never could manage money. Mom had a heart attack last year, out of the blue, but seems to be doing well now (stent) and has no other major health issues. Her grandmother lived to be 96. I take care of their portfolio, taxes and major financial stuff. Mom pays the day to day bills and doles out walking-around-money to my father.

My problem is that my wife of 25 years is fabulous in most ways. But she's a financial illiterate. I have come to realize that money matters will never be her thing. She's not a spendthrift and she doesn't do bad stuff with money. But she will always need someone to take care of personal finance business for her beyond her ability to write a check and use her debit card (she agrees that she's less tempted to do bad stuff with a debit versus a credit card). Our portfolio is set up, and my estate plan designed, so that my kids will each get something substantial when I die, but the lion's share will go to the wife in a marital trust. She will be a co-trustee with my brother. The point of the trust is not to tie her hands, but to give some framework and perhaps protect against no-gooder second husband. Of course as co-trustee she be free to have the final decision...I recognize that there are risks with that, but am OK with that.

With my level of wealth, I cannot see having her pay 1% for a wealth manager since the portfolio is on auto-pilot, more or less. I think what she will need is a good accountant, who can do income tax preparation, accumulate the auto-pilot dividends and interest, oversee bill paying and just be sure that business is taken care of. I do not trust bank trust departments in general...I believe they put their own interests before the client's. As of today, my brother and friend would step in to oversee things and perhaps actually be the person I am talking about. But longer term it's not clear that they will have the interest or longevity that might be needed. My daughter is a finance major, but it will be a few more years until she gets the "street smarts" and before I can see if she takes care of personal business like her father or perhaps like her mother. In other words she and/or my son might, eventually, be able to take care of mamma's finances, but it might be another 10-15 years before that is known. Also there is the issue of needing someone to handle my parents' stuff if I go first and/or my brother can't do it either.

I am hoping just for some general discussion to give me things to think about in this regard.
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dmcmahon
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by dmcmahon »

My quick thought is that you should have plenty of time to try to educate your wife, and to see how your kids turn out. Most likely you'll be around to handle things when your parents pass away.
mptfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by mptfan »

dmcmahon wrote:My quick thought is that you should have plenty of time to try to educate your wife, and to see how your kids turn out. Most likely you'll be around to handle things when your parents pass away.
Some people don't have the interest, ability or inclination to learn how to handle money.
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Index Fan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Index Fan »

I think you've done a good job with the preparations you have made. I'd have a basic bullet-point type document with the most important guidelines on it and discuss these with your wife. Things like 'stay the course' with the current plan, stay within a budget, don't get scammed, etc. At some point, she's going to have to take this advice (or not). There's only so much you can do, and your wife will be in charge of her fate at some future point. If she learns the basics of prudent Boglehead personal finance, she'll be in better shape than most.
"Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis." | -Seneca
Patchy Groundfog
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Patchy Groundfog »

You might want to establish a relationship with a good CPA, even paying him/her to look over your tax returns, so that your wife and brother will have someone familiar with your situation to consult, at least on tax matters.

But don't underestimate your wife. I've known more than one widow who stepped up and took over her own financial life very competently. My mother-in-law, a housewife left with three teenaged sons and a small real estate and investment business, learned what she needed to learn and ran the business for the next 30 years.

Your wife may well develop the skills she needs when she needs them, plus you really do have good backup with your brother and your children.
The best things in life aren't things.
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prudent
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by prudent »

I have accepted that my wife is not going to be able to manage everything if I were to go first. She has little interest, she is bad with numbers, but the good part is that she is frugal. I have told her when the time comes to talk to a planner we have worked with and set up a system where she gets so much $ put in her checking account every month. She can pay the bills and use the ATM and check her balance, but she just doesn't get investments. She'll tell the planner to stick to Vanguard funds.

The fact that she is very unlikely to be able to handle all the finances herself is OK, actually. The planner will make sure she has money to pay bills and when she needs extra she can make a call and have it put in her checking account. That's going to cost 1%. I weigh that against what could happen if she tries to do it herself, or relies on a "friend" or a second husband. The 1% is the right choice in my (her) case.
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FabLab
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by FabLab »

mptfan wrote: Some people don't have the interest, ability or inclination to learn how to handle money.
Maybe so, but it's remarkable just how adaptable someone becomes in the face of necessity. My dad died almost fifty years ago, leaving my mother not particularly well-informed about the family finances. It was perhaps part generational (he was considerably older) and part cultural. One of the many things I respected about my mother (she passed last July) was her resilience and her ability to make her way in the world from a personal finance perspective after his passing.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by -- Herman Hupfeld
Topic Author
Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

mptfan wrote:
dmcmahon wrote:My quick thought is that you should have plenty of time to try to educate your wife, and to see how your kids turn out. Most likely you'll be around to handle things when your parents pass away.
Some people don't have the interest, ability or inclination to learn how to handle money.
Exactly. After 25 years, I see that wife just is never going to do this.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

Patchy Groundfog wrote: But don't underestimate your wife. I've known more than one widow who stepped up and took over her own financial life very competently. My mother-in-law, a housewife left with three teenaged sons and a small real estate and investment business, learned what she needed to learn and ran the business for the next 30 years.

Your wife may well develop the skills she needs when she needs them, plus you really do have good backup with your brother and your children.
Yeah, but after 25 years of not wanting to do it and telling me specifically she'd rather have someone do it for her if I bite the dust, is it prudent to plan on "a chance" that she'll decide she needs to do it?
gerntz
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by gerntz »

There are several boglehead advisors out there that charge well less than 1% & who are in the business for the long haul. Folks here also talk about Vanguard providing good, low-cost service for passive portfolios.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

prudent wrote:I have accepted that my wife is not going to be able to manage everything if I were to go first. She has little interest, she is bad with numbers, but the good part is that she is frugal. I have told her when the time comes to talk to a planner we have worked with and set up a system where she gets so much $ put in her checking account every month. She can pay the bills and use the ATM and check her balance, but she just doesn't get investments. She'll tell the planner to stick to Vanguard funds.

The fact that she is very unlikely to be able to handle all the finances herself is OK, actually. The planner will make sure she has money to pay bills and when she needs extra she can make a call and have it put in her checking account. That's going to cost 1%. I weigh that against what could happen if she tries to do it herself, or relies on a "friend" or a second husband. The 1% is the right choice in my (her) case.
That is exactly my situation, but paying 1% is totally a poor value at my net worth, frankly. I guess that's my main concern...most "advisors" only sell the 1% "package" when, in fact, a good (inexpensive) bookkeeper and a few hours of CPA per year is really what is needed.
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Watty
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Watty »

This question isn't just for a surviving spouse. Even a competent investor who is able to manage their own money well when they first retire may eventually have problems manageing their investments when they are in their 80's or 90's even if something like Alzheimer's doesn't happen. I've heard of way too many situations where mistakes are made or people are taken advantage of when they are older and lose their financial savvy.

Oddly enough though I have probably seen just as many people go to the opposite extreme and not blow their money when they are retired, but be overly frugal and not spend money on things they could clearly afford that are necessities or that would make their quality of life a lot better. Be sure to help prepare your wife so that she is not overly cautious about spending money or overly cautious about how it is invested.

In some ways someone like you wife who knows that they are not very skilled might actually be safer than someone who thinks that they are still capable and doesn't realize that their skills are impaired.

One of the ways that that I am planning for retirement is to try to get to the point where my expenses are as low as possible, for example having a paid off house. I will also be taking a hard look at buying a low cost single premium immediate annuity when I am in my 70's with part of my money. That way between social security and a monthly annuity check I would basically have a monthly budget that I could focus on and rarely have to deal with the bulk of my retirement savings.
TRC
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by TRC »

Teach her how to fish. This stuff isn't rocket science.

FWIW, I'm in a similar boat. Once a quarter I sit down with my wife, have her plug the various #s into our spreadsheet to tally up our various investment balances, and ask her how our AA looks. She's finally starting to get it.
Easy Rhino
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Easy Rhino »

How well did she do on her finances when she was 24?

I think putting as many things on auto pilot is a great idea, not sufficient.

I also think it might be worth looking for a good (and younger) financial advisor. If you can find one who just charges per hour, then you probably wouldn't need to utilize him much currently.
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Taylor Larimore
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Simplify

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Hi Lee:

I think every responsible person has the same concerns.

Probably the best thing you can do is to simplify your financial affairs as much as possible. Not only will this help your wife, but it will also be a major help to you, your caregivers and heirs.

Over the years I have moved all our investments into a few Vanguard directly held mutual funds. This puts everything into one statement which we review together each January. We also have a very trustworthy son (also a Vanguard shareholder) who has Power of Attorney (Vanguard requires its own form).

Congratulation for thinking ahead and your concern for your family in the year's ahead.

Best wishes
Taylor

Edit
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
Topic Author
Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

One poster sent me a PM that got me thinking. About half of my stuff is with Vanguard. I am not comfortable putting the whole ball of wax there. The rest is with a few household-name brokerages. Is there an option that can be set up where, say every quarter, all free cash and money market amounts can be "swept" to my Vanguard Prime Money Market account? Or even to my local bank checking account? If I could get this function on auto-pilot, it probably would eliminate the need for anything more than an annual extended CPA review at tax time. Thank you (private messager...you know who you are) and Taylor. Because you helped me realize that THIS is the main "problem" that needs to be solved. How to get the earnings (about 3% of the net worth of my portfolio comes annually as dividends and mostly tax free interest) to automatically accumulate into one central place. Currently I am spending (including taxes) about 2%. I am guessing that wife can and will get by nicely on about 1.5% (she doesn't like new cars as much as me). So there should be no need to sell stuff. (Except when she turns 70.5 and someone will need to be sure the RMD stuff gets handled).

So is there a way to get earnings from multiple "earnings accounts" "funneled" automatically into one central "spending account"?
mptfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by mptfan »

TRC wrote:Teach her how to fish. This stuff isn't rocket science.
It seems that some people just don't understand that there are people who either don't have any interest in managing money, or don't have the ability. It doesn't matter how simple it seems to you. Really, it doesn't. It matters how difficult it seems to someone else. Also, if they have no interest, it doesn't matter how easy it would be to learn. Really, it doesn't. It takes wisdom to realize this.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

mptfan wrote:
TRC wrote:Teach her how to fish. This stuff isn't rocket science.
It seems that some people just don't understand that there are people who either don't have any interest in managing money, or don't have the ability. It doesn't matter how simple it seems to you. Really, it doesn't. It matters how difficult it seems to someone else. Also, if they have no interest, it doesn't matter how easy it would be to learn. Really, it doesn't. It takes wisdom to realize this.
Exactly. She is just not going to do it. So please let's accept that for the sake of this discussion and help me figure out how to get all earnings to automatically move into a central account. This requires different brokerages to play nice with each other. Ugh.
Muchtolearn
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Muchtolearn »

Is this woman unintelligent? If so, then of course you need to make plans for this. If she's not, maybe it is time for you to let her grow up like a woman who is 45 should do. You can make all the plans you want and when you predecease her they don't matter anyway.
mptfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by mptfan »

Muchtolearn wrote:Is this woman unintelligent? If so, then of course you need to make plans for this. If she's not, maybe it is time for you to let her grow up like a woman who is 45 should do. You can make all the plans you want and when you predecease her they don't matter anyway.
Wow, it's amazing how some people just don't get it. She could be the smartest person in the world, but if she has no interest in managing money, then her intelligence is irrelevant because she won't do it.

I consider myself to be a smart person, but there are some things that I have no interest in doing, or in learning how to do, even though I know I could learn if I chose to devote my time and energy. It doesn't matter if my life would be better if I did learn, I won't do it. Period. I won't. And there are times when that has been true, but I still won't. I rather rely on others, or pay for them to get done, I just will not do it. Wise people understand this. Foolish people do not.
epilnk
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by epilnk »

Your daughter is a 22 year old finance major. An adult with the demonstrated interest and the inclination. Also a vested interest in her mother's welfare and how the portfolio turns out after you're gone. Unless you think she's actually a bit wacky she sounds like the ideal person to assist her mother with finances. You don't need to wait for her to develop a track record first, since I assume you're planning to stick around for a while to see how she turns out. But in a pinch, should you decide to check out tomorrow, she's a pretty good bet.
beachplum
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by beachplum »

Leesbro63 wrote:
mptfan wrote:
dmcmahon wrote:My quick thought is that you should have plenty of time to try to educate your wife, and to see how your kids turn out. Most likely you'll be around to handle things when your parents pass away.
Some people don't have the interest, ability or inclination to learn how to handle money.
Exactly. After 25 years, I see that wife just is never going to do this.
Your wives are never going to have the interest, ability, or inclination to learn how to handle money because you have been doing it all for them essentially. As a few have pointed out, you would be surprised just how fast one learns when made to. At 52 once is certainly young enough to get a decent grasp of finances. Fortunately for your wife you have everything organized, and she should know where everything is and how everything works, whether or not she's interested.

I have to say that for many years I let my husband handle most financial things because I was busy with other things. When he inherited money last year that's when I became interested in how it was going to be managed/invested. I was the one who researched endlessly on what to do and now we are headed in the right direction. If I left it all to my husband we would still be paying large sums to a market timing advisor and not heading in the right direction. I've also taken on the responsibility of all the other financial aspects of our lives to make sure we are getting value for our money. So those who are worried their wives aren't up to it, there is always hope, but you first have to believe that your wife is capable and work on getting her to see how important it is for her to be able to care for herself on her own if or when needed. I know some do not care for Suze Orman, but your wife could learn quite a few helpful things by reading her books since she presents financial matters in a very readable/relatable format.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

epilnk wrote:Your daughter is a 22 year old finance major. An adult with the demonstrated interest and the inclination. Also a vested interest in her mother's welfare and how the portfolio turns out after you're gone. Unless you think she's actually a bit wacky she sounds like the ideal person to assist her mother with finances. You don't need to wait for her to develop a track record first, since I assume you're planning to stick around for a while to see how she turns out. But in a pinch, should you decide to check out tomorrow, she's a pretty good bet.
Agreed, but not just yet. She will be starting her first "real" job soon in another city and getting her first apartment etc. And, frankly, I'm not quite ready for her to see that we have much more than she thinks we have.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

I really wish this would not continue as a "convince your wife to learn this herself" thread. Is just not gonna happen, so please help me figure out the best way to proceed without that option. Jeez!
mptfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by mptfan »

Leesbro63 wrote:I really wish this would not continue as a "convince your wife to learn this herself" thread. Is just not gonna happen, so please help me figure out the best way to proceed without that option. Jeez!
Leesbro, I am sorry about that. You have been married to your wife for 25 years, and you are telling us that she will not handle the money after you are gone, but yet some people continue to argue with you about that as if they know her better than you do. It's a shame.
PreserveCapital
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by PreserveCapital »

Rick Ferri's company only charge .25%.

Try contacting him privately.

Note: I am not a shill for Rick Ferri and receive nothing for mentioning this.
Chaol
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Chaol »

Leesbro63 wrote:One poster sent me a PM that got me thinking. About half of my stuff is with Vanguard. I am not comfortable putting the whole ball of wax there. The rest is with a few household-name brokerages. Is there an option that can be set up where, say every quarter, all free cash and money market amounts can be "swept" to my Vanguard Prime Money Market account? Or even to my local bank checking account? If I could get this function on auto-pilot, it probably would eliminate the need for anything more than an annual extended CPA review at tax time. Thank you (private messager...you know who you are) and Taylor. Because you helped me realize that THIS is the main "problem" that needs to be solved. How to get the earnings (about 3% of the net worth of my portfolio comes annually as dividends and mostly tax free interest) to automatically accumulate into one central place. Currently I am spending (including taxes) about 2%. I am guessing that wife can and will get by nicely on about 1.5% (she doesn't like new cars as much as me). So there should be no need to sell stuff. (Except when she turns 70.5 and someone will need to be sure the RMD stuff gets handled).

So is there a way to get earnings from multiple "earnings accounts" "funneled" automatically into one central "spending account"?
Custodians will frequently have a Systematic Withdrawal Plan feature which can automate the sale of assets and distribution of funds to a directed account (brokerage, savings etc.) Sweeping free cash is a bit more complicated and likely to be custodian-specific.

If you were to establish a relationship with a fee-only Financial Planner (retainer or hourly as opposed to AUM revenue model), the planner would be able to handle issues such as RMDs, account coordination, and income needs beyond the established "salary" of the systematic payments. Explain to any prospective planner your investment strategy as well as your goals and wishes for the financial future of your wife and children, and ensure that you've found someone who will work within these boundaries.

If you and your wife can develop a relationship that will last beyond your years, both you and she can have a level of trust that her future will be handled properly (perhaps with a yearly review by the children to stem shenanigans). With substantial assets, you're likely to get much more bang for your buck from a planner than an AUM-based wealth manager.
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Regal 56
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Regal 56 »

Your wives are never going to have the interest, ability, or inclination to learn how to handle money because you have been doing it all for them essentially. As a few have pointed out, you would be surprised just how fast one learns when made to. At 52 once is certainly young enough to get a decent grasp of finances. Fortunately for your wife you have everything organized, and she should know where everything is and how everything works, whether or not she's interested.
Maybe the original poster knows his wife better than any of us.

And the fact remains that some people simply refuse to learn about certain things, whether someone is willing to do it for them or not. I know someone who all her life has refused to learn how to pump gas for her car. It's not rocket science, and any reasonably intelligent person can learn to do it in a few minutes. Doesn't matter. She won't do it. Never has, never will.

I agree that the original poster should try to teach his wife about financial matters. But why assume he's never tried? Further, it seems to me that he's making a prudent decision. Rather than hoping against all evidence that she'll suddenly get interested in something she's never before been interested in, he's trying to set things up so that her lack of interest won't financially destroy her. Seems a better idea than betting the farm that a lifetime of disinterest will somehow change.

Finally, he doesn't have to set things up so that she's forever barred from taking control for herself. Things can be arranged so that she has as much or as little control as she wants.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

Regal 56 wrote:
Finally, he doesn't have to set things up so that she's forever barred from taking control for herself. Things can be arranged so that she has as much or as little control as she wants.
Exactly. My wife actually wants someone to do the grunt work and place the funds needed to live/spend. And I am not doing and would not do this in a way that ties her hands or "weds" her to a specific advisor or institution. My idea is to set things up on voluntary autopilot but not with mandatory robopilot.
MathWizard
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by MathWizard »

Leesbro63 wrote:
Regal 56 wrote:
Finally, he doesn't have to set things up so that she's forever barred from taking control for herself. Things can be arranged so that she has as much or as little control as she wants.
Exactly. My wife actually wants someone to do the grunt work and place the funds needed to live/spend. And I am not doing and would not do this in a way that ties her hands or "weds" her to a specific advisor or institution. My idea is to set things up on voluntary autopilot but not with mandatory robopilot.
I may be misunderstanding, bit it sounds like what you are just looking is something which will generate an income
stream into a Money Market or a bank account.

Assuming you don't want an inflation adjusted annuity (they are expensive, and tie up the money) this PDF from vanguard might
be what you want:

Vanguard has a paper on this:

https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/icrria.pdf

You could set this up now for at least part of your portfolio, with instructions on how
to move more or less into this after you are gone. That way you could both test it out now.

Executive summary.
This paper describes several basic strategies for
generating and managing income in retirement. We review some common
approaches, including income investing, total-return-based spending, and the
use of insurance-based products such as income annuities
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

Math wizard, nope, I/we ALREADY have the income stream from my 55/45 portfolio that remains "as-is".. But it's to five different different brokerages plus Vanguard (direct mutual fund investment). So annuities are not necessary. I just want the dividends that go into my Fidelity account, say quarterly, to transfer to my Vanguard Prime Money Market fund. Same with some muni bond interest that accumulates in my Schwab account. Is is possible to have something like that on autopilot in 2012. It requires financial institutions to recognize each other.
Muchtolearn
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Re: Simplify

Post by Muchtolearn »

Taylor Larimore wrote:Hi Lee:

I think every responsible husband has the same concerns.

Probably the best thing you can do is to simplify your financial affairs as much as possible. Not only will this help your wife, but it will also be a major help to you, your caregivers and heirs.

Over the years I have moved all our investments into a few Vanguard directly held mutual funds. This puts everything into one statement which we review together each January. We also have a very trustworthy son (also a Vanguard shareholder) who has Power of Attorney (Vanguard requires its own form).

Congratulation for thinking ahead and your concern for your family in the year's ahead.

Best wishes
Taylor
Taylor, I am surprised at you. Why would you make this a responsible HUSBAND issue? This is not gender-based. Responsible SPOUSE would be an improvement although I get disappointed when any mentally competent adult is unable to take care of themselves. There are plenty of competent women in this world, as many as more than men.
Muchtolearn
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Muchtolearn »

Leesbro63 wrote:
mptfan wrote:
TRC wrote:Teach her how to fish. This stuff isn't rocket science.
It seems that some people just don't understand that there are people who either don't have any interest in managing money, or don't have the ability. It doesn't matter how simple it seems to you. Really, it doesn't. It matters how difficult it seems to someone else. Also, if they have no interest, it doesn't matter how easy it would be to learn. Really, it doesn't. It takes wisdom to realize this.
Exactly. She is just not going to do it. So please let's accept that for the sake of this discussion and help me figure out how to get all earnings to automatically move into a central account. This requires different brokerages to play nice with each other. Ugh.
So OP, are you telling me that the woman you are married to is so incapable that if you died, she would do nothing with her finances? Well I bet all I have that she isnt and she is being infantilized for no good reason. Think about if she said: I know nothing about finances and if my husband leaves me, divorces me or dies, or if I leave him, then my world is hopeless and I would not know how to proceed.

I will rest now on this one as I am over-reacting to what is striking me as diminishing women (I am not one) who I believe are as competent as men.
mptfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by mptfan »

Muchtolearn wrote:
Leesbro63 wrote:
mptfan wrote:
TRC wrote:Teach her how to fish. This stuff isn't rocket science.
It seems that some people just don't understand that there are people who either don't have any interest in managing money, or don't have the ability. It doesn't matter how simple it seems to you. Really, it doesn't. It matters how difficult it seems to someone else. Also, if they have no interest, it doesn't matter how easy it would be to learn. Really, it doesn't. It takes wisdom to realize this.
Exactly. She is just not going to do it. So please let's accept that for the sake of this discussion and help me figure out how to get all earnings to automatically move into a central account. This requires different brokerages to play nice with each other. Ugh.
So OP, are you telling me that the woman you are married to is so incapable that if you died, she would do nothing with her finances? Well I bet all I have that she isnt and she is being infantilized for no good reason. Think about if she said: I know nothing about finances and if my husband leaves me, divorces me or dies, or if I leave him, then my world is hopeless and I would not know how to proceed.

I will rest now on this one as I am over-reacting to what is striking me as diminishing women (I am not one) who I believe are as competent as men.
You are missing the point completely. This issue has nothing to do with the ability of women, and you are indeed over-reacting to a non-existent issue. The issue would be the same if the poster was a woman, and she was asking about her husband. I have already explained the point several times, so go back and read my posts. If you can't see that this has nothing to do with women, then it is indeed true that you have muchtolearn.
Last edited by mptfan on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Leesbro63 »

Agreed that either sex can have members like this. My father cannot handle money but my mother can as i mentioned.I am not being sexist. Just facing reality that after 25 years of trying, my wife is not going to develop an interest in the grunge and mechancal work required to live off a stock n bond portfolio.
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roymeo
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by roymeo »

The OP situation describes my parents with the genders reversed exactly. If my mother would pass, my father will need help as he's not had much involvement at all.

My situation is more like the OP, but younger and a little more interest from my partner. I've considered, putting together a survivor-plan with her. "How complex do you want it? Target Retirement? 3 fund?" At least I know she's more of a bogglehead than anything...definitely would not want to get involved with Ameriprise, etc.

Maybe we'll start that talk this weekend.

roymeo
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo
reggiesimpson
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by reggiesimpson »

Take a look at Cardiff Park (John Gorlow). Reasonable flat fee and uses Vanguard , DFA extensively.
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LitiGator
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by LitiGator »

Speak first to an Estates and Trusts attorney ASAP. You need, at least, a will, and you should also probably set up something like a revocable trust for your family (or something better the attorney can think up based on your needs). It would solve a lot of your issues.

You would retain power of disposition over the property, and you can control the property's investments similarly to an IRA.

It also (hopefully) won't be that expensive to set up, supposing your issues arent complicated.

Call the E&T lawyer, consultations are usually free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law#Basic_principles

Jim
beachplum
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by beachplum »

I get your point and think it's a good idea to hire someone to help you wife when or if needed. I just don't agree that anyone at your wife's age thinks it okay to be a "financial Illiterate". If nothing else, being literate on the subject of personal finances will protect her from being taken advantage of, which I imagine can happen in the best of plans if one doesn't know what's going on.
wendy
Muchtolearn
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Muchtolearn »

mptfan wrote:
Muchtolearn wrote:Is this woman unintelligent? If so, then of course you need to make plans for this. If she's not, maybe it is time for you to let her grow up like a woman who is 45 should do. You can make all the plans you want and when you predecease her they don't matter anyway.
Wow, it's amazing how some people just don't get it. She could be the smartest person in the world, but if she has no interest in managing money, then her intelligence is irrelevant because she won't do it.

I consider myself to be a smart person, but there are some things that I have no interest in doing, or in learning how to do, even though I know I could learn if I chose to devote my time and energy. It doesn't matter if my life would be better if I did learn, I won't do it. Period. I won't. And there are times when that has been true, but I still won't. I rather rely on others, or pay for them to get done, I just will not do it. Wise people understand this. Foolish people do not.
MPT, I have to disagree. I had no interest ever in preparing food, cooking, etc. I got divorced. Guess what. I learned.
sscritic
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by sscritic »

Who will drive my grandmother? She doesn't know how to drive and doesn't want to learn and honestly, after knowing her for 60 years, I don't think she can learn. She could take a cab, but she thinks cabs are too expensive. Can someone please tell me what to do?
Johm221122
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Johm221122 »

Consider SPIA to cover living expenses, then your wife just has to cash checks
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Taylor Larimore
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My post needs an edit.

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Taylor, I am surprised at you. Why would you make this a responsible HUSBAND issue? This is not gender-based. Responsible SPOUSE would be an improvement although I get disappointed when any mentally competent adult is unable to take care of themselves. There are plenty of competent women in this world, as many or more than men.
MuchtoLearn:

You are absolutely right. I have seen research showing that women make better investors than men (who are notoriously overconfident in themselves). I have also learned that in most things my wife is more competent than I am.

I edited my post to better reflect what I was trying to say.

Thank you for your admonition -- and best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
Saving$
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Saving$ »

This is an interesting thread....
People need to accept the OP's assessment of his spouse. Some people will just NOT take care of this stuff. Case in point: Family friend, divorced for decades, advanced degree, VERY smart person. Received RMD letters and gave them to me, asking what they are and what she should do. She has left EVERYTHING in a few accounts exactly as received in the decades old divorce. No buying or selling of stock, no evaluation, nothing. Just left all exactly as received from ex husband. Some people just have no interest in this stuff. I'm trying to help get the accounts consolidated and simplified at Vanguard.

Think of it like this: What should someone with no children or siblings do to protect themselves for when they get older and perhaps develop some dementia? Whatever that plan is might also be a good plan for the OP.
jhawktx
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by jhawktx »

With so much financial knowledge in your family/friend network I would suggest stressing less over this issue. Also, with only 19 years to go I would shift some of that time/stress to figuring out how YOU can maximize your enjoyment of those 19 years. Just my opinion.
Last edited by jhawktx on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Muchtolearn
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Re: My post needs an edit.

Post by Muchtolearn »

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Taylor, I am surprised at you. Why would you make this a responsible HUSBAND issue? This is not gender-based. Responsible SPOUSE would be an improvement although I get disappointed when any mentally competent adult is unable to take care of themselves. There are plenty of competent women in this world, as many or more than men.
MuchtoLearn:

You are absolutely right. I have seen research showing that women make better investors than men (who are notoriously overconfident in themselves). I have also learned that in most things my wife is more competent than I am.

I edited my post to better reflect what I was trying to say.

Thank you for your admonition -- and best wishes.
Taylor
Taylor, I have the greatest of respect for somebody who acknowledges that they may have been mistaken. thank you.
Muchtolearn
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Muchtolearn »

sscritic wrote:Who will drive my grandmother? She doesn't know how to drive and doesn't want to learn and honestly, after knowing her for 60 years, I don't think she can learn. She could take a cab, but she thinks cabs are too expensive. Can someone please tell me what to do?

LOL
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Although I know nothing about their services, doesn't Vanguard offer trust services? Just a thought.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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HueyLD
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by HueyLD »

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Steelersfan
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Re: Who Will Take Care Of My Wife?

Post by Steelersfan »

For people like your wife there are investment advisers who charge reasonable fees, like .5% or even .25% of assets, and don't use load funds. While true bogleheads shudder at the thought of paying anything, for some people it's worth the money, and they may well get better financial results than trying to do it on their own.

Seek one of them out in your area, or someone who provides services through the internet if that's acceptable to your spouse.
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