Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

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tolerable2323
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Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by tolerable2323 »

Hi Guys,

About a year ago the company I work for was in the red and about to go Bankrupt. A new investor bought out the owners. A few weeks later they started making cuts. I work for the this company for about Five years. They give me a option to be demoted (half my pay) or get laid off. I told them that I love my Job and don't want to get demoted but would accept lower pay if they let me keep my current job and status. They agreed.

Today. My manager ask me to come in her office and tells me that there going rid of my job position. That I have the option to get demoted or "voluntary resign." I don't want the demotion job for many reasons. And the voluntary resign seem very speciou wording to me. ask her if there was a severance package she said no. Spoke to HR and under state law if I voluntary resign i don't qualify for unemployment. Ask my manager why they can't lay me off. She responded that's not a option for me.

I feel like there trying to take advantage of me in so many ways. In distress, feel like I need legal advice. This just came all of sudden.

I just want to let you guys know that I have a year of emergency funds in my bank account. And a pretty penny in taxable funds.

Any advice of what I should do or who to speak with would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by tolerable2323 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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paddyshack
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Re: Distress.

Post by paddyshack »

They don't want to lay you off because it will raise their unemployment insurance once you claim.

Given your circumstances, you'd have a decent claim on unemployment anyway. Legal advice is a good idea, but I doubt you have a lot of options.

Bottom line is you work for a company in poor financial shape that needs to cut costs or die. You should be doing everything you can to find employment with a healthier organization.
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tolerable2323
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Re: Distress.

Post by tolerable2323 »

I agree, That's why I would prefer to get laid off and receive unemployment. To give me time to look for a good job and not rush it because of Financial hardship.
xerty24
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Re: Distress.

Post by xerty24 »

Hi Joel,

Sorry to hear about your and the company's problems. On the bright side, you very likely have a claim to CA UI due to their various demotions and cuts in your wages. You can still quit after being demoted and make a claim. See here:

http://www.edd.ca.gov/UIBDG/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_500.htm
Title 22, Section 1256-22(b), Comments provides:

. . .f factors other than a pay reduction influence an individual's decision to leave the work, all such factors are evaluated to determine whether a reasonable person genuinely desirous of retaining employment would have left the work. . . . However, a pay decrease of 20% or more, taken alone, is a substantial reduction in pay to establish good cause for leaving work where the employee is notified of a transfer or demotion to another position with the employer. Pay includes the basic wage, shift differentials, board and room furnished by the employer and guaranteed overtime. Pay also includes fringe benefits such as vacation pay and insurance if such fringe benefits are currently available or set schedules and information to value fringe benefits for the former and other position are available.


Good luck!
No excuses, no regrets.
TRC
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Re: Distress.

Post by TRC »

Don't quit (unless you have a better job lined up).

Talk to a lawyer. Personally I would make them aware you are seeking legal advise.

Start looking for new job.
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bottlecap
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Re: Distress.

Post by bottlecap »

daddypoker23 wrote:I agree, That's why I would prefer to get laid off and receive unemployment. To give me time to look for a good job and not rush it because of Financial hardship.
You could call your state's labor department or the US Department of Labor for advice as well. They are trying to get rid of you one way or another and they are hoping to do so in a way that prevents you from claiming unemployment benefits.

Good luck,

JT
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Kenkat
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Re: Distress.

Post by Kenkat »

I think you need to speak to an attorney who specializes in employment law. If you know any attorneys, ask them who they would recommend. They are out there.

In the meantime, I wouldn't agree to anything with your employer. Don't agree to a job title change, don't agree to a pay reduction, don't agree to resign. They may still reduce your pay and title, but the key is to force them to make all the moves. Go into hedgehog mode and buy time until you can either find a new job or talk to the attorney.

Start looking for a new job immediately. When you get one, I would tell your current employer "today is my last day".
ChapMan
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Re: Distress.

Post by ChapMan »

Legal advice is a good idea. You could be a good candidate to claim constructive termination and collect u/e anyway.
Muchtolearn
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Re: Distress.

Post by Muchtolearn »

I just accepted a 50% reduction in salary for half time. I am a company officer in a company in horrible shape. It will be posted as an 8K today for all to see and it is sort of embarrassing. Your company is in serious shape. Just start looking for another job. You dont want to get laid off. Easier to find a job if working. Even better to accept reduced hours for reduced pay at same job. Collecting unemployment is not that much and your job prospects are better if employed even though it is not a disgrace to get laid off anymore. You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.

A lawyer costs too much.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Distress.

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Sorry to hear about all these events. I've got some choice words for these vulture investors as I am sure many of your colleagues do as well.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
sscritic
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Re: Distress.

Post by sscritic »

GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:Sorry to hear about all these events. I've got some choice words for these vulture investors as I am sure many of your colleagues do as well.
How do you know they were vultures? The original owners sold. They should have been running a profitable business, but didn't. My SIL was in a similar situation. The company went into bankruptcy, but in his case the company wasn't sold, but a federal judge gave the company to a group of creditors. The new owners, the creditors, are winding the company down by selling assets and laying off. They were not particularly generous (my SIL got 2 weeks severance after one month working half-time and years of prior service), but they were not vultures. In case you missed it, there has been a recession in this country for the last several years. That has consequences.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Distress.

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

sscritic wrote:
GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:Sorry to hear about all these events. I've got some choice words for these vulture investors as I am sure many of your colleagues do as well.
How do you know they were vultures? The original owners sold. They should have been running a profitable business, but didn't. My SIL was in a similar situation. The company went into bankruptcy, but in his case the company wasn't sold, but a federal judge gave the company to a group of creditors. The new owners, the creditors, are winding the company down by selling assets and laying off. They were not particularly generous (my SIL got 2 weeks severance after one month working half-time and years of prior service), but they were not vultures. In case you missed it, there has been a recession in this country for the last several years. That has consequences.
Been in business long enough to know the difference between a vulture and one with a sense of compassion.
Telling a person we are going to demote you (twice) or ask you to voluntarily resign (hello?) so you don't make a claim on unemployment as is inferred by them is not the sign of a good businessperson. A good business person treats their customers, employees and stakeholders with decency and integrity.

One more thing, it appears this OP has what we call "employment at will" job - no contract and no obligation to stay. The company on the other hand has the right to demote, but clearly want the OP to leave and on OP's own volition - it has a certain sleaze factor to it. My choice would have been to explain the state of the company's finances and say we need to reduce expenses, explain that employees would be demoted immediately with similar reductions in pay. The employee should make the decision - stay or go, but at least they could do so with dignity.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
vested1
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Re: Distress.

Post by vested1 »

Muchtolearn wrote:You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.
While I agree that it's never a good idea to burn your bridges, it is illegal for a company to "blacklist" and they are prevented from disparaging you to a prospective employer. If they are caught doing so there are serious consequences. I agree that you shouldn't quit, forcing the company to lay you off so that you can collect unemployment. Comments concerning the recession not withstanding, you sound as if you have been honest and loyal to your company and should expect the same consideration in return.
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Random Musings
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Re: Distress.

Post by Random Musings »

Easier to find a job when you have one. To be blunt, since you already took 50% for the "team" and they want to play this game - I would put more effort and time in your job search than working for that particular company. If getting demoted again makes financial sense over unemployment compensation - that's a short-term solution.

Essentially, since they are being ruthless, you can be too. In this case, an "all about me" attitude is okay since the long-term prospects look dim at your current employer.

RM
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LadyGeek
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Re: Distress.

Post by LadyGeek »

There's a very important point missed here. The purpose of HR is not to protect you, it's to protect the interests of the company. HR is doing everything possible to make sure you don't file any legal action against them; they only told you about unemployment because it's state law and they have no choice. (That's why they have employee training about diversity and ethics. It's not for your benefit, it's to make sure they don't get sued or prosecuted.) Also, the managers are toting the company line - they have to or their job is at risk.

I've been laid off before. However, it was done that day and I got a severance package. My spouse also went through this - he worked for a small business which was sold to investors because the owner needed the money. A different circumstance, but the result is the same. He's working elsewhere and the former business lost all its customers due to the new owners and eventually shut down.

Another point is that you have no visibility into the company finances. You don't know what arrangements are being made, nor the long term plans of the owners. In any case, it's none of your concern and there's nothing you can, or should, do about it.

Your objective has changed: Maximize your income, not theirs. Play hedgehog, as others suggest and start looking for new employment now. Lawsuits take time, effort, and funding (yours). It's also not a guaranteed outcome and assumes that the company will actually pay (assuming they lose).

If you can't find employment and are fired / laid off, your emergency funds are your way to take some time off and replan what you want to do. That's what those funds are for.
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downshiftme
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Re: Distress.

Post by downshiftme »

If they lay you off, you will have to look for a new job. Probably as soon as possible.

If you stay and are demoted again, you should be looking for a new job. Probably as soon as possible.

You probably should have already been looking for a new job after the first demotion.

Unemployment benefits are better than nothing, but probably less than your salary, even with a demotion. Plus future employers are more likely to be interested in candidates who are currently employed than those who are unemployed. If I were in your situation, I would keep the job, any job, but be trying to find a new employer. Search like you are unemployed, because it's pretty obvious you will be soon. This company either doesn't want you, or cannot afford to keep you, so don't wait for them to make it worse. I've known plenty of people who do not actively search for work until their job is actually over and they are unemployed. Don't fall into that trap. Look for new work like you mean it. Now.
nomadgecko
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Re: Distress.

Post by nomadgecko »

1) Write down everything that was said in today's meeting while it is still fresh in your head.
2) Start keeping a log of every conversation from here on out. Who was there, what was said, what was agreed to.
3) If there are any emails to you about this (there may not be since the firm won't want documentation), keep those on file.
4) Do not voluntarily resign.
5) I agree many other other posters; shift your energy to finding the next job. Every week of progress you can make while employed is better than unemployed.
6) Be strong.
DonM17
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Re: Distress.

Post by DonM17 »

If you are legally able to do so - I would be using a hidden tiny digital voice recorder the next time HR has a conversation with you or if you really want to freak them out - hold it in your hand and let them see it.
stoptothink
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Re: Distress.

Post by stoptothink »

daddypoker23 wrote: Joel
pasadena ca
I am almost picked up my phone. I have a brother of the same name who lives in Pasadena, but I remembered he just received a pretty big promotion.
Topic Author
tolerable2323
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Re: Distress.

Post by tolerable2323 »

Didn't sleep very well last night. Woke up with stress, distress, and anxiety. Thinking about how my life and routine is going to change in the near future. Five years and this how they want to get rid of me? Frustrated!

Called up a few labor law offices (used Yelp for help don't know any attorneys) basically spoke to a clerk who took down my information and told me they will call me if they could help in anyway. Didn't seem promising.

Decided to write a formal detail email to the owner of my company. Telling him about my situation. Well see what happens with that.

Ill keep you guys up to date of what is going on. hopefully some of you can help me with this unfortunate process of what to do and not to do.

My friends, family, or girl i've been dating for the past couple of months dont even know about this. My pride has been kick to the crib. You always hear stories about this happening to other people however, when it happens to you. Especially in this way, you realize how cruel things can really be at times.

Joel
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LadyGeek
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Re: Distress.

Post by LadyGeek »

Instead of an email, make an appointment to see him in person. It's more than just written communication, you need to express yourself (professionally). Use the email as notes to take to the discussion. You'll also see things from the owner's perspective. I'll bet he'll be in worse shape than you are - he's got to do this to a lot of people. It's not easy being an owner.

Consider that there are lot worse things that can happen in your life. It's not much consolation, but put things in a bigger perspective.

You also need to talk about it - it's not your fault. That's what your family, friends and girlfriend are for. They'll understand. Don't hide it from them, as that will make things worse.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Topic Author
tolerable2323
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Re: Distress.

Post by tolerable2323 »

meeting in person would have been a better option then writing a Email.

Also, hard to feel sorry for someone when there the ones putting you in distress.

Understand what your trying to say that things could be worse. For example if i got in a car accident and lost a leg. well it could have been worse i could of died. I know, am coming off as jerk. But when your going thru a tuff time the last thing you really want to hear is "things could be worse"

Joel
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tolerable2323
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Re: Distress.

Post by tolerable2323 »

regret last email. Just have a lot emotions running inside of me without much sleep. Just want to go somewhere and yell as loud as i can right now.
PreserveCapital
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Re: Distress.

Post by PreserveCapital »

Until you have lined up a new/better job offer, ask your supervisor how you could improve your work performance so as to make yourself more valuable as an employee.
bhead33
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Re: Distress.

Post by bhead33 »

I would also advise against posting your name and location in a public forum searchable on the internet. I hope you have good luck with finding something better soon.
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LitiGator
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Re: Distress.

Post by LitiGator »

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It is clear that they arent treating you right. However, based on what you have said above, you might have a de-facto employment contract that you might be able to enforce if you react properly.

Talk to an employment attorney right away. Consultations are usually free, and if you have a serious claim, they will do it on contingency basis (30% of the winnings but you dont pay anything up front).

Good luck with getting the issue resolved, I hope everything works out. And definitely DONT quit, make them fire you so that you can collect unemployment (just my opinion).
Jim
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Re: Distress.

Post by tibbitts »

I'm not an expert, but consulting an attorney wouldn't hurt if it doesn't cost much or anything. Certainly there is zero upside (to you) in quitting.

I don't think operating in "distressed" mode is helping you, however. It's just a job, and you have to approach it like a business transaction. It can be difficult if this kind of thing hasn't happened to you before, but don't worry, you'll get used to it. It was never "your job", it was just a job you happened to be doing at the moment, so there was never really anything for you to lose. You have a good emergency fund, and a large chunk of taxable money, so I'm not seeing a crisis here.

Paul
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BL
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Re: Distress.

Post by BL »

daddypoker23 wrote:My friends, family, or girl i've been dating for the past couple of months dont even know about this. My pride has been kick to the crib. Joel
It is most important that you include these people in your conversations. They probably care more about you than anyone else, and deserve not to be "protected" from your situation. This secrecy is adding to your stress and it needs to stop. I understand why you feel this way, but it is important to everyone, both you and them, that you confide in them. There is no shame in your situation, but many do have feelings of shame nevertheless.

Then get busy searching for a new job, and enlist the help of everyone you know.
beckjl727
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Re: Distress.

Post by beckjl727 »

Honestly, after two demotions and 5 years of work I would be furious. I would do the absolute minimum amount of work to not get fired and search as hard as I could for another job.
retcaveman
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Re: Distress.

Post by retcaveman »

Unfortunately, this kind of treatment has become more common.

As others have mentioned, there is a "cause of action" called "constructive discharge." The basic concept is that there are situations where people aren't technically fired, but working conditions are soo bad that the employee has little alternative but to leave.

Lawsuits are messy and take a long time to work their way to conclusion. You will get no near term relief. And they are usually "settled" before they ever get to court, sometimes just for a nuisance amount (enough to make it go away and well short of a successful lawsuit).

The other option may be to file a complaint with a state agency. Here too, nothing happens very quickly.

I agree that if you have any thoughts of initiating action against your employer, you will want to document everything and gather any relevant documents eg performance appraisals, employee handbook, benefits descriptions, memos, etc.

One last thought. Before leaving, you may want to try to negotiate for as much as you can get eg a letter of recommendation, severance, outplacement, etc. It doesn't sound like they will be too receptive to this kind of request and may ask for a "release" ie a written promise not to sue in exchange.

Good luck.
Caveman
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edge
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Re: Distress.

Post by edge »

daddypoker23 wrote:I agree, That's why I would prefer to get laid off and receive unemployment. To give me time to look for a good job and not rush it because of Financial hardship.
Uh, my question is why have you been a sitting duck for an entire year on half of your previous pay? This is bizarre!
hazlitt777
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Re: Distress.

Post by hazlitt777 »

I don't know if I have anything worth saying. But could you try to see if there is anything you could do for the company. Tell them you are willing to work with them. Take the demotion if you have to. But let them know you want to be a team player...and keep your eye open for a better job elsewhere.

Take it a day at a time and try not to get sick over it.
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MossySF
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by MossySF »

If you act like a victim, life will treat you like one. When the local mega bank tried to charge me a fee after I closed my account, I just laughed at them and told them they'd never collect. Take the same approach. If HR comes back and says you must make a decision, do a mix of (1) I don't remember what you are talking about or (2) laugh in their faces. Meanwhile, do absolutely nothing at work and hit the pavement hard looking for a new job.
ilmartello
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by ilmartello »

Get a lawyer, tell them you are getting a lawyer. Sign nothing
dalerobk
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Re: Distress.

Post by dalerobk »

vested1 wrote:
Muchtolearn wrote:You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.
While I agree that it's never a good idea to burn your bridges, it is illegal for a company to "blacklist" and they are prevented from disparaging you to a prospective employer. If they are caught doing so there are serious consequences. I agree that you shouldn't quit, forcing the company to lay you off so that you can collect unemployment. Comments concerning the recession not withstanding, you sound as if you have been honest and loyal to your company and should expect the same consideration in return.
This is a myth that is simply not true. A past employer cannot say things that are untrue to a prospective employer. They can say bad things about a former employee--as long as they're true. If a prospective employer asked what type of employee Bill was, they most certainly can say, "Well, Bill was late to work every single day so we had to fire him" (if it is true). Now many companies have a policy of no references at all to simply prevent any potential legal problems, but a former employer can absolutely give true information about your job performance including a negative evaluation of it.
vested1
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Re: Distress.

Post by vested1 »

dalerobk wrote:
vested1 wrote:
Muchtolearn wrote:You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.
While I agree that it's never a good idea to burn your bridges, it is illegal for a company to "blacklist" and they are prevented from disparaging you to a prospective employer. If they are caught doing so there are serious consequences. I agree that you shouldn't quit, forcing the company to lay you off so that you can collect unemployment. Comments concerning the recession not withstanding, you sound as if you have been honest and loyal to your company and should expect the same consideration in return.
This is a myth that is simply not true. A past employer cannot say things that are untrue to a prospective employer. They can say bad things about a former employee--as long as they're true. If a prospective employer asked what type of employee Bill was, they most certainly can say, "Well, Bill was late to work every single day so we had to fire him" (if it is true). Now many companies have a policy of no references at all to simply prevent any potential legal problems, but a former employer can absolutely give true information about your job performance including a negative evaluation of it.
I was laid off in December and the HR department told me directly that they were barred from saying anything bad about me by law, not that they would have anyway. I live in California though, so perhaps it's different in other States. I guess I'm living the myth as they told me that any calls would be answered with a positive report or simply a verification of work dates.
dalerobk
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Re: Distress.

Post by dalerobk »

vested1 wrote:
dalerobk wrote:
vested1 wrote:
Muchtolearn wrote:You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.
While I agree that it's never a good idea to burn your bridges, it is illegal for a company to "blacklist" and they are prevented from disparaging you to a prospective employer. If they are caught doing so there are serious consequences. I agree that you shouldn't quit, forcing the company to lay you off so that you can collect unemployment. Comments concerning the recession not withstanding, you sound as if you have been honest and loyal to your company and should expect the same consideration in return.
This is a myth that is simply not true. A past employer cannot say things that are untrue to a prospective employer. They can say bad things about a former employee--as long as they're true. If a prospective employer asked what type of employee Bill was, they most certainly can say, "Well, Bill was late to work every single day so we had to fire him" (if it is true). Now many companies have a policy of no references at all to simply prevent any potential legal problems, but a former employer can absolutely give true information about your job performance including a negative evaluation of it.
I was laid off in December and the HR department told me directly that they were barred from saying anything bad about me by law, not that they would have anyway. I live in California though, so perhaps it's different in other States. I guess I'm living the myth as they told me that any calls would be answered with a positive report or simply a verification of work dates.
I suppose it's possible that California has such a law, but it's hard to imagine any state passing a law that prevents someone from stating the truth. I've never heard of such a law. It's also possible that the HR person simply misspoke or you misinterpreted what they said. Like I said though, many companies have policies against references except to verify employement and employment dates in order to avoid any possible legal problems.
Mortgasm
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Re: Distress.

Post by Mortgasm »

vested1 wrote:
dalerobk wrote:
vested1 wrote:
Muchtolearn wrote:You will also maintain good relations with the employer for future references and avoid being blacklisted.
While I agree that it's never a good idea to burn your bridges, it is illegal for a company to "blacklist" and they are prevented from disparaging you to a prospective employer. If they are caught doing so there are serious consequences. I agree that you shouldn't quit, forcing the company to lay you off so that you can collect unemployment. Comments concerning the recession not withstanding, you sound as if you have been honest and loyal to your company and should expect the same consideration in return.
This is a myth that is simply not true. A past employer cannot say things that are untrue to a prospective employer. They can say bad things about a former employee--as long as they're true. If a prospective employer asked what type of employee Bill was, they most certainly can say, "Well, Bill was late to work every single day so we had to fire him" (if it is true). Now many companies have a policy of no references at all to simply prevent any potential legal problems, but a former employer can absolutely give true information about your job performance including a negative evaluation of it.
I was laid off in December and the HR department told me directly that they were barred from saying anything bad about me by law, not that they would have anyway. I live in California though, so perhaps it's different in other States. I guess I'm living the myth as they told me that any calls would be answered with a positive report or simply a verification of work dates.
We run an office in California, and this is not true. CA has very exorbitant damages (triple, I believe) if an employer is found to have made untrue claims about the former employee. Most companies and lawyers, recommend making no claims whatsoever, because of the risk. But it's not against the law to present a factual statement even if disparaging.
dalerobk
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by dalerobk »

Here's a link (not sure how good the info is). http://www.ehow.com/list_6831691_employ ... -laws.html Apparently California actually passed legislation to make it harder to sue former employers for defamation with regard to references.

Anyway, this is all a derail from OP, who does have a serious problem. I just wanted to point out that this is not the case. I hear people say that all the time and it really is a myth.
retcaveman
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by retcaveman »

I am not aware of any State that limits recommendations/references, but many companies today have policies that limit what they can tell a prospective employer. Of course there are written policies and their are individual actions that may or may not be compliant with those policies.

My former employer, gave departing employees the option to complete a form where they could authorize the release of certain information (they could specify what information they wanted released eg attendance, pay, performance, termination, etc.) The release was good for a year. Without a release, the company would only acknowledge that the individual was an employee and provide the job title and dates of employment.

Most companies today though make you sign a statement on the employment application authorizing former employers to release information. So it can be difficult to control.

In general, larger corporations, many with in-house legal departments, have taken steps to address this issue. However, smaller employers with fewer employees and less experience terminating employees may not be as sensitive. Unless they have been sued over this issue, and given the fact that people are people, they may be more inclined to speak badly about a former employee. It could be because they were a poor employee or because the employer is upset that an otherwise good employee left them. Some supervisors may not have been truthful in their appraisal of the employee's performance while employed and see this as a low risk opportunity to be "candid." It's a people thing.

caveman
"The wants of mortals are containers that can never be filled." (Socrates)
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linuxuser
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Re: Distress.

Post by linuxuser »

It does sound like the company is playing hardball.

I wouldn't voluntarily quit.

I see two choices: (1) take the pay cut again and devote the maximum energy to finding a new job and minimum to the current job or (2) don't take a pay cut and see what happens.

Sometimes, the company can be looking for some employees desperate enough to accept the pay cut. Sort of like when a company uses attrition to cut the number of employees when the mere talk of possible layoff causes employees to find a new job and leave.

Do you know what is happening with the other employees? Are you being singled out?

I agree with others that the first pay cut should have been a major warning sign that you should be looking for another job. Even if you were, times are tough and finding a new job is easier said than done.

Good luck!
hicabob
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by hicabob »

ilmartello wrote:Get a lawyer, tell them you are getting a lawyer. Sign nothing

or ... get a lawyer and follow the lawyers advice exactly
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tolerable2323
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Re: Distress.

Post by tolerable2323 »

[quote="linuxuser"]It does sound like the company is playing hardball.

I wouldn't voluntarily quit.

I see two choices: (1) take the pay cut again and devote the maximum energy to finding a new job and minimum to the current job or (2) don't take a pay cut and see what happens.

Sometimes, the company can be looking for some employees desperate enough to accept the pay cut. Sort of like when a company uses attrition to cut the number of employees when the mere talk of possible layoff causes employees to find a new job and leave.

Do you know what is happening with the other employees? Are you being singled out?

I agree with others that the first pay cut should have been a major warning sign that you should be looking for another job. Even if you were, times are tough and finding a new job is easier said than done.

Good luck![



They Give most people in my position a option (including myself) to be laid off in December 2010. 2/3 decided get laid off and I decided to take a payout but keep my current position. Fast foreword this week. They ask me to be demoted (same pay since i took a paycut in dec 2010) or voluntary resign. No option to be laid off.

FYI- Spoke to my brother who's been laid off before. He told me what there currently paying me Good chance I would be getting the Max in unemployment benefits Therefore, fighting for a pretty penny.
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linuxuser
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Re: Distress.

Post by linuxuser »

daddypoker23 wrote:
They ask me to be demoted (same pay since i took a paycut in dec 2010) or voluntary resign. No option to be laid off.
I don't get this.

What don't you like about being demoted apparently different job title but same money? In your original post, you said, you'd have to take *another* 50% pay cut.
Which is which?

If it was me, I'd take the demotion assuming that you wouldn't have to take another 50% pay cut.

Jobs aren't about job titles; it is about what you do.
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tolerable2323
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by tolerable2323 »

It's different responsibilities. My schedule will change from 2-10pm to grave yard but more importantly i no longer feel comfortable working here. Imagine working for a company that doesn't seem to want you and always trying to find ways to get rid of you.

I just want my umeployment claim and move on with my life. Something I believe I deserve working for this company for 5 years and paying my share of taxes.
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linuxuser
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by linuxuser »

The decision is up to you.

I definitely can relate to how you feel, because I too have resentment against my current employer.

You do realize that unemployment is at best 50% of your current income? You might want to look at your state's formula.

What about medical insurance? If you have it with your current employer, you will end up paying $$$ for COBRA.

You'd be surprised at how bad the job market is out there. I have a job and have been looking since 2010.
The salaries are lowball.

When you have a job, you can negotiate your next salary from a position of strength.

When you are unemployed, some companies may not even want to interview you.
dalerobk
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by dalerobk »

If the choice is between job and no job, I choose job. Just start the process of a job search. Apply for everything and anything that you're remotely interested in. I don't think there's really any other answer, to be honest.
stan1
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Re: Distress. [company trying to force into quitting]

Post by stan1 »

OK, as is often the case in these stories more facts are coming out. You were given a choice of getting laid off or taking a pay cut last year. To be honest this seems very fair, maybe even compassionate. Many companies would not have given you the choice of layoff or pay cut (they would have simply laid you off and hired a new employee at a lower cost).

It sounds like they are not asking you to take another pay cut. They want to reassign you to a different position with a different title (that you believe is less prestigious). If you don't like the new position you can quit -- but its not a layoff -- it is a voluntary separation. Companies do this all the time as they enter or leave business areas, or develop a new strategy for their business.

I'd say accept the reassignment while you look for another job if the reassignment means you are doing something you don't enjoy or if you feel you aren't being paid what your contributions are worth. If anything looking for a new job will give you a realistic perspective on the market value of your skills. A lot of companies are discovering that they can hire much less expensive employees to do the same job as a higher paid employee in this economy. It's not discrimination -- its basic supply and demand. With so many people looking for work companies can get a good employee for 50% of what they had to pay 5 years ago in many fields. There is a positive side to being on the graveyard shift: you'll be able to interview and look for a new job during normal working hours without having to take time off from work.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
Curlyq
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Post by Curlyq »

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Last edited by Curlyq on Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Distress.

Post by FrugalInvestor »

vested1 wrote: I was laid off in December and the HR department told me directly that they were barred from saying anything bad about me by law, not that they would have anyway. I live in California though, so perhaps it's different in other States. I guess I'm living the myth as they told me that any calls would be answered with a positive report or simply a verification of work dates.
I hate to pop your bubble but since this is how it's typically handled - "positive report or simply a verification of work dates" - don't you think that the party asking for the recommendation understands the situation pretty clearly? Positive report means just that. Verification of work dates alone means not recommended.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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