Early retirement with a pension

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ofcmetz
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Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

In my police job I originally worked rotating 8 hours shifts on one month rotations. Then we went to fixed shifts for about 6 years and I got days based on seniority. About 2.5 years ago we went to rotating 12 hours shifts with one month rotations.

About a month ago it was decided that we were going back to fixed 8 hours shifts, and I got put on the worst possible shift schedule for family and social life. It's a 3pm to 11pm shift that almost always includes 4 hours of overtime afterwards from 11pm to 3am. I'm a patrol lieutenant. The chief said that he would reevaluate and may make a change in 2 years, but that there would be no recourse on his decision before then. Even then he may keep the shifts as they are so I'm planning on being stuck on this shift for the next 4 years. I have a 7 year old and a 9 year old children who both need to be driven to and from private school has made this even harder as most of the burden falls on my wife and in laws. In the past, patrol shifts were assigned by seniority with the more desirable shifts going to senior people, but all of the sudden a month ago this was thrown out and all the senior people were moved to the most undesirable shifts based on the thought that they wouldn't quit and it would slow the turnover.

All that being said, I'm trying to tough it out for four more years to get my pension to a place where I will not have to work again unless I want to. The plan is to retire in four years, and either find employment in something I enjoy but is not about money, or to go back and finish a college degree while living on my pension.

I still enjoy police work and could do it it somewhere else, but for less money and without the awesome pension. I realize how blessed I've been as I only have two years of college and this pension is unbelievably generous.

So here are the numbers:

Years worked 16.5. Age 36. I bought 5 years of pension credit which brought me to credit of 21 in the system. Income is $64,000 plus overtime. If I left today (early retirement), I'd immediately start drawing $34,444 a year with the option to keep medical but at a more expensive rate. If I work the four additional years (normal retirement) I'd draw $54,912 a year with the ability to purchase medical at the same price as current state employees. Any years after that would bring it closer to my base pay.

I am mainly looking for thoughts on the situation personally as well as financially. Having a $20,000 jump in pension for only 4 more years is pretty significant right? I'd be a little crazy to leave with such a great benefit (golden handcuffs)? Has someone been in a similar situation? Anything you'd like to contribute is appreciated.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Valuethinker »

ofcmetz wrote:In my police job I originally worked rotating 8 hours shifts on one month rotations. Then we went to fixed shifts for about 6 years and I got days based on seniority. About 2.5 years ago we went to rotating 12 hours shifts with one month rotations.

About a month ago it was decided that we were going back to fixed 8 hours shifts, and I got put on the worst possible shift schedule for family and social life. It's a 3pm to 11pm shift that almost always includes 4 hours of overtime afterwards from 11pm to 3am. I'm a patrol lieutenant. The chief said that he would reevaluate and may make a change in 2 years, but that there would be no recourse on his decision before then. Even then he may keep the shifts as they are so I'm planning on being stuck on this shift for the next 4 years. I have a 7 year old and a 9 year old children who both need to be driven to and from private school has made this even harder as most of the burden falls on my wife and in laws. In the past, patrol shifts were assigned by seniority with the more desirable shifts going to senior people, but all of the sudden a month ago this was thrown out and all the senior people were moved to the most undesirable shifts based on the thought that they wouldn't quit and it would slow the turnover.

All that being said, I'm trying to tough it out for four more years to get my pension to a place where I will not have to work again unless I want to. The plan is to retire in four years, and either find employment in something I enjoy but is not about money, or to go back and finish a college degree while living on my pension.

I still enjoy police work and could do it it somewhere else, but for less money and without the awesome pension. I realize how blessed I've been as I only have two years of college and this pension is unbelievably generous.

So here are the numbers:

Years worked 16.5. Age 36. I bought 5 years of pension credit which brought me to credit of 21 in the system. Income is $64,000 plus overtime. If I left today (early retirement), I'd immediately start drawing $34,444 a year with the option to keep medical but at a more expensive rate. If I work the four additional years (normal retirement) I'd draw $54,912 a year with the ability to purchase medical at the same price as current state employees. Any years after that would bring it closer to my base pay.

I am mainly looking for thoughts on the situation personally as well as financially. Having a $20,000 jump in pension for only 4 more years is pretty significant right? I'd be a little crazy to leave with such a great benefit (golden handcuffs)? Has someone been in a similar situation? Anything you'd like to contribute is appreciated.
As long as LA's fiscal situation doesn't mean that you will lose your pension benefits in some way, then I would try to tough it out.

I *hate* to say that, but the combination of a higher pension *and* security on medical costs would really put you in a good position. 20k at age 40, until death, assuming spousal benefit, is worth a *huge* amount of money. I am not in a position to do the math right now but it would be worth something like $1m-- the equivalent of being paid an additional $250k pa for those 4 years (with the tax deferred)-- check that estimate because I just did that off the top of my head. Is it CPI indexed? (the healthcare protection alone is very valuable because health care rises at faster than inflation in the long run).

They are precious times with your kids and you need to be sure your spouse is bought into this-- why you are doing this. That's why I hate to write what I have just written, because of those precious hours.

Another thing which is hard to value, but I am sure night patrol is more dangerous. Both in terms of deliberate violence and traffic accidents.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by sesq »

I think you are stuck, the reward would be difficult to pass up, not just the pension money but also the tie to a negotiated medical plan seem pretty valuable. I would look into ways to mitigate such as the ability to trade shifts on an adhoc basis, or perhaps if you are part of a union that is something to consider. That is quite a callous way to solve a turnover problem. I have kids of a similar age and can appreciate the challenge that kind of shift would create.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ResearchMed »

Is it possible to find someone else who could help out with the transportation, for a fee?
Obviously, you'd want it to be a careful driver, so the typical low-cost college student probably isn't ideal here.

A parent of another child in the same school, perhaps?

That won't help with your family time, but at least it will help remove the driving burden from other family members.

That extra money will add up to be a *lot*, as livesoft mentioned.
I'm getting similar rough figures.

But do consider the safety issue.
Nothing is guaranteed, obviously, but you'd probably have access to the relevant comparative risks.

I can't even imagine major pension income at age 40.
Nice.

And DH and I thank you and all of the others who serve!

RM
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mx711yam
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by mx711yam »

I'm a Trooper in Texas and I was in kind of the same situation a few months back. Mine was to continue with my job for the next 10 years so I can get a pension or leave and do something else now. I decided to stay because it's hard to pass up a pension with benefits. I think you need to ride it out, four years isn't that long and that's a MASSIVE bump in pension.

Stay safe
MP173
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by MP173 »

Bless you for being a law enforcement officer in today's world. Cannot image doing that job.

Big pension at that young age is amazing. Make sure the state's finances are in order.

Tough choice for you.

Ed
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

Valuethinker wrote: As long as LA's fiscal situation doesn't mean that you will lose your pension benefits in some way, then I would try to tough it out.

I *hate* to say that, but the combination of a higher pension *and* security on medical costs would really put you in a good position. 20k at age 40, until death, assuming spousal benefit, is worth a *huge* amount of money. I am not in a position to do the math right now but it would be worth something like $1m-- the equivalent of being paid an additional $250k pa for those 4 years (with the tax deferred)-- check that estimate because I just did that off the top of my head. Is it CPI indexed? (the healthcare protection alone is very valuable because health care rises at faster than inflation in the long run).

They are precious times with your kids and you need to be sure your spouse is bought into this-- why you are doing this. That's why I hate to write what I have just written, because of those precious hours.

Another thing which is hard to value, but I am sure night patrol is more dangerous. Both in terms of deliberate violence and traffic accidents.
Thank you for your thoughts Valuethinker. You are right, that is a huge amount of money especially compared with my base salary. I try to remind myself that my wife will be set as well if I stick out these 4 years as there is a 75% survival benefit for her life. The pension is not CPI indexed, and COLA's aren't given until age 55. We save a considerable amount 20% into other retirement accounts in addition to the pension benefit. I figure if I retire at 40, I could leave the investments untouched for many years and then tap them later on as the value of the pension reduces with inflation.

I've always thought law enforcement was equally dangerous regardless of hours, but just driving your police car and being near roadways is generally more dangerous than the violence from actual suspects. I've have more encounters with armed suspects on the day time shift then any other actually.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

sesq wrote:I think you are stuck, the reward would be difficult to pass up, not just the pension money but also the tie to a negotiated medical plan seem pretty valuable. I would look into ways to mitigate such as the ability to trade shifts on an adhoc basis, or perhaps if you are part of a union that is something to consider. That is quite a callous way to solve a turnover problem. I have kids of a similar age and can appreciate the challenge that kind of shift would create.
Thank you sesq. Yeah, it's callous, and it's not just me that's in this situation. I have a shift full of people in similar situations.

Our union is very weak due to past situations. There is the possibility of an administration change at any point and I'd say it's likely before the next 4 years pass. I'm able to take a considerable amount of leave due to my time in and the fact it's state employment. That is one thing that I'm planning on doing as long as I stay on this shift.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

mx711yam wrote:I'm a Trooper in Texas and I was in kind of the same situation a few months back. Mine was to continue with my job for the next 10 years so I can get a pension or leave and do something else now. I decided to stay because it's hard to pass up a pension with benefits. I think you need to ride it out, four years isn't that long and that's a MASSIVE bump in pension.

Stay safe

Thank you for your service brother! It's dangerous out there with the current attitude that it's ok to shoot a cop. Best of luck making it though the 10 years unscathed. Stay safe.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

ResearchMed wrote:Is it possible to find someone else who could help out with the transportation, for a fee?
Obviously, you'd want it to be a careful driver, so the typical low-cost college student probably isn't ideal here.

A parent of another child in the same school, perhaps?

That won't help with your family time, but at least it will help remove the driving burden from other family members.

That extra money will add up to be a *lot*, as livesoft mentioned.
I'm getting similar rough figures.

But do consider the safety issue.
Nothing is guaranteed, obviously, but you'd probably have access to the relevant comparative risks.

I can't even imagine major pension income at age 40.
Nice.

And DH and I thank you and all of the others who serve!

RM
Thanks ReseachMed. We are exploring all options. I sometimes get days off during the week and my wife is a part time nurse. Father in law is able to fill in with the rest, but his health is not so good.

I never even thought about the pension when I started at age 19. Later on I realized that it was one of the biggest financial benefits of my job. In some ways I wish it was a little less and the salary was a bit more. Although this far into it, I'm starting to not think that quite so much. :D
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Katie
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Katie »

From a financial perspective, this is an easy decision. But I realize it's not purely a financial decision as those are wonderful years with your family. But the security for your spouse and kids is hard to ignore. Clearly you need to make sure you discuss this with your wife, and it's helpful that you're aware how this may impact her and you're thinking of ways to minimize the burden.
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Solair of Astora
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Solair of Astora »

Not entirely certain how the your state's law enforcement pensions work, but my state has two very similar pension plans for state vs local law enforcement. Because of how similar the two systems are, it is possible to transfer years of service/pension contributions between them if you switch from one to the other. It looks like your system does allow for transfers, but whether or not it is an upgrade or downgrade I don't know.

http://www.lasersonline.org/uploads/7MH ... als_bw.pdf

If you want to stay in law enforcement but don't like your current situation, then please take a look at other agencies in your area - say going from the state to the county, city, university, etc. and see if the pension is similar.

Heh... your retirement system is called Lasers.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by small_index »

Not sure if numbers are convincing, but here's a view of that pension using the CDC's life expectancy of about 44 yrs at age 35:
* take pension now, 44 yrs x $34,444 = $1.5M ignoring inflation
* service for 4 more years, 40 yrs x $54,912 = $2.2M ignoring inflation

A more qualitative view: if you're spending more than half your income, the lower pension (54% of income) will require you to take another job. If you serve 4 more years, a higher pension can make your next job optional (higher pension covers 86% of income).

By way of alternatives, does a transfer bring your pension with it? Meaning, is there a way to change jobs and keep your pension accumulating?
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

small_index wrote: By way of alternatives, does a transfer bring your pension with it? Meaning, is there a way to change jobs and keep your pension accumulating?
I'm in the hazardous duty portion of LASERS which is the name of our pension system. I could transfer but most state agencies require you to start back to the bottom rank of officer and would pay much less than my income as a lieutenant. If I left law enforcement then all the numbers and amount of years left would change. I seriously considered other agencies.

As a side note my pension contribution is 9.5% of my pay so the 25 year mark gets me closer to my actual base pay than the numbers even show.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by texasdiver »

My 17 year old daughter's current school job is to work as a nanny for a family with elementary and intermediate school kids. She has an early release schedule from the HS and then drives over and picks up 3 kids in her car at 3 different schools at around 3:15 pm and drives them home to one house where she babysits the kids until the parents come home between 5 and 6 pm. She gets paid about $15/hour. The schools are all within 5 blocks of each other and the house is about a mile away so not that much driving actually.

You might be able to find a similar situation to do the afternoon pickup. It is a pretty sweet after school job for a responsible HS senior. Beats the heck out of fast food work.

That doesn't solve missing time with your kids but might lift some of the afternoon transportation burden.
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Miriam2
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Miriam2 »

Ofcmetz -
I have a similar situation with a state pension - it is worth more than its weight in gold. Yes I think putting up with the undesirable schedule (which may not last forever) is worthwhile because the higher pension is so significant. Now that I'm near retirement, I really see its value. When I was young, I thought pensions were for "old folks." Now I'm so relieved my hard work paid off. I would max it out.

I had a similar situation working during afternoons - when kids are coming home from school and doing afterschool activities and homework. I have lots of emotional regrets, but took advantage of as much time off as possible to be with them as much as possible, although maybe not every day (and maybe they appreciated me more since I was not there nagging them every afternoon?? :shock: ) Also, special occasions were special, and I moved mountains to be with them at their games, competitions, scout campouts, graduations, class events, birthday parties, etc.

Don't underestimate the pride your kids have in you, that their father is a police officer. Your kids know why you work like you do and the value of what you do. A police officer's job is 24/7 and never done - and I'm sure they are VERY proud of you.
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Solair of Astora
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Solair of Astora »

ofcmetz wrote: If I left law enforcement then all the numbers and amount of years left would change.
So if you took that potentially lower paying law enforcement job your numbers and amount of years left would stay the same? I've heard of folks going from high paying jobs to essentially entry level for their last couple just to round out the number of years needed for pension. The pension plan in my state calculates off of your four or five highest earning years, not your most recent four or five years. Would you be ok with taking a job that pays 1/2 to 3/4 what you are now for 4 years so that you get that full 55k/yr pension?

Also, nobody is saying you can't double dip in pensions. Friend of a friend joined the military at 18. Got his 20 years, his pension, and got out at 38. He then turned around and joined the FBI. Stayed there for 20 years and got a second pension at 58. You're not much different in age and progression with your career...
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FRANK2009
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by FRANK2009 »

Hello lieutenant,

For 20K more a year, I think you need to stay the four years. Is it possible to swap shifts with another lieutenant that would prefer to work the 3 to 11? Maybe a sergeant will be promoted prior to the two to four year time frame?

Sorry, that's all I can come up with.


Frank

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More Please
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by More Please »

It sounds like the Military. The longer you have in service and the higher your rank, the tighter the leash around your neck. They know they have you. But the pension makes it worth it and pensions are a luxury in today's world.

I enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for the hard and dangerous work that you do.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by jabberwockOG »

Based on the numbers you should stick it out for the 4 years. Maybe policy or shifts will change before then, nothing very good or very bad typically lasts for very long when it comes to work situations. Good luck and thank you for your courageous service.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Watty »

ofcmetz wrote:Even then he may keep the shifts as they are so I'm planning on being stuck on this shift for the next 4 years. I have a 7 year old and a 9 year old children who both need to be driven to and from private school has made this even harder as most of the burden falls on my wife and in laws.
A lot can change in 4 years, including your supervisors.

I agree with the prior comments about finding someone that you could hire to drive the kids to and from school to make things easier. There may be some retired person or stay at home parent that would be a good choice to take the kids to and from school.

It would also be good to consider hiring someone to do things like yard-work and home repairs to free up more of you time if that would help you get through the next few years.

You can look at your numbers but I would suspect that paying for help like that for a couple of years could easily be made up later by working a small bit more in some post retirement job(that is an oxymoron!) that you enjoy more.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Herekittykitty »

This isn't advice, but just another way to look at the question.

As I understand it, the question was whether to take retirement now or 4 years from now.

If you could actually take it now, next year, the year after, and so on, 4 years from now, 5 years from now - then maybe rather than looking at it as choosing between two options, look at it as considering a range of multiple options - less like two and more like infinite.

I'd make myself a chart with the numbers in 6 month increments and stick it in a drawer or with your investing policy statement or wherever is convenient so you can look at it and see the numbers easily whenever you want to.

I would also have a list of pluses and minuses of "stay" versus "go," which may be similar at most of the points in time. For example you mention a plus of "go" at any given time means a more comfortable schedule and likely more time with the kids right now, and a plus of "stay" means more freedom when you do retire (and possibly more time with your kids at that point than you would have if you "go" now), and more security for your wife.

I would also keep in mind what you said, that it is possible things could change at work at some point. You mention the chief may reevaluate and make changes in 2 years. What do your numbers look like if you stay for 2 years? Might you consider, maybe even looking at it at 6 month increments, staying for 2 years and then leaving if changes aren't made but staying if changes do occur? Also, is there any reason the 2 year period is fixed or could he just as well reconsider in a year, or maybe never?

As an aside, you may want to start seriously considering what you are going to do after retirement from police work and what impact if any your age would have on the various directions you are considering.

Also as some have pointed out, consider risk, including not only financial but also your personal safety.

This is a difficult decision. I don't have the answer.

Best wishes.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by gwrvmd »

A factor to consider: If your pension is not indexed to inflation, the lower the pension is and the earlier you retire, the more this hurts you in your 70s and 80s (written by a 79 year old). It is not unusual for people of your age to live 25 - 30 years in retirement. It is not unusual for people of my age to have retired with a non indexed pension equal to Social security and at my age their pension is now only half as much as their SS. COLAs should compensate but they be reduced, deferred, cancelled etc.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by 2comma »

ofcmetz,

I can relate to working those hours and it really gets in the way of family life. My opinion is to you should stick it out and plan on taking days off as much as possible to attend family functions. I know how easy it is to give that advice to someone else when they are going to be the one's that have to deal with it. My mega corp lowered many of the benefits over the years and they intruded in our personal lives first with beepers and then with being on call with cell phones. Just be careful, the grass is not always that much greener and when it is they can always mow the lawn later.

Have you looked into federal law enforcement positions? I don't know if you'd get credit for past experience and you'd probably have to move but that could be another second career option to investigate. My FIL worked for the Secret Service (although he did work the Truman and Kennedy details their primary focus is on counterfeit money), a few years after his mandatory retirement at 60 he said he actually had more spendable income after retirement than before. Also, would corporate head of security for a large company be another possibility? I guess what I'm saying is don't forget you may be able to leverage your experience, I know you didn't get to the rank of Lieutenant by accident and your skills are valuable.
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

texasdiver wrote:My 17 year old daughter's current school job is to work as a nanny for a family with elementary and intermediate school kids. She has an early release schedule from the HS and then drives over and picks up 3 kids in her car at 3 different schools at around 3:15 pm and drives them home to one house where she babysits the kids until the parents come home between 5 and 6 pm. She gets paid about $15/hour. The schools are all within 5 blocks of each other and the house is about a mile away so not that much driving actually.

You might be able to find a similar situation to do the afternoon pickup. It is a pretty sweet after school job for a responsible HS senior. Beats the heck out of fast food work.

That doesn't solve missing time with your kids but might lift some of the afternoon transportation burden.

I'm telling my wife about this.^. Going to start a search for something similar. Thanks
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

Herekittykitty wrote:This isn't advice, but just another way to look at the question.

As I understand it, the question was whether to take retirement now or 4 years from now.


I would also have a list of pluses and minuses of "stay" versus "go," which may be similar at most of the points in time. For example you mention a plus of "go" at any given time means a more comfortable schedule and likely more time with the kids right now, and a plus of "stay" means more freedom when you do retire (and possibly more time with your kids at that point than you would have if you "go" now), and more security for your wife.

I would also keep in mind what you said, that it is possible things could change at work at some point. You mention the chief may reevaluate and make changes in 2 years. What do your numbers look like if you stay for 2 years? Might you consider, maybe even looking at it at 6 month increments, staying for 2 years and then leaving if changes aren't made but staying if changes do occur? Also, is there any reason the 2 year period is fixed or could he just as well reconsider in a year, or maybe never?


Best wishes.
Thanks for the thoughts. The pension payout increases steadily during the four years and then will spike a bit at year 25 when it gets to the normal retirement vs early retirement level. I like your idea of reevaluating it every six months or so. I do have that option of leaving in 2 years with better numbers than today. The two year period was given by the chief but they could change things much sooner if they wanted to or never.

I'm leaning towards the stay, reevaluate after 6 months of doing this while keeping my eyes open for other things.

I do think all the time about what I do when I leave this job and the only thing I know for sure is that I don't want to work nights again and I'd like to leave the 60 workweeks behind.
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by VINNY »

I'm a police officer in Illinois and I can relate to your situation. In my opinion, you should stay the extra four years. It makes sense financially albeit, it will most definitely suck on your family life, no if's and's or but's about it!

I am 45 years old and eligible to collect my pension in 5 years, and at 55 we get cola's of 3% per year.

I spent 18 years working 3-11's due to having little kids. Now that they are older and with the help of a close friend, I could finally work the day shift, 7-3pm. I knew ahead of time that I was going to work days in the coming year and had to decide whether I wanted a promotion.

I was in the process of being promoted to Sergeant and I requested to be taken off the list.

It was an easy decision! Remain a patrolman on the dayshift and ride out my remaining time working a "normal" schedule and still having the evenings off to enjoy holidays or be a Sergeant with little seniority stuck on either afternoons or midnights. The extra 10k was just not worth it! I couldn't do another five years on a shift in which I missed so many family events.

I missed out on so much of what my family was doing! Like you, before the opportunity to go to day shift arose, I was deciding to leave once I locked in my 20 years.

Stick it out if you can the difference in pension is significant. I know this is easier said than done. In my case, if I would've retired with 20 years, my pension would be 43,255 versus waiting 5 more years and getting 65,209 at 50 years of age. Almost a 22,000 difference for just waiting five more years.

Our pensions our a huge benefit as your aware. I quickly realized a few years on the job, how we withdraw in pension benefits about two years worth of what we contributed, and then continue to collect. Stick it out if you can.

When I read your post it quickly resonated on when I was on 3-11's and all I thought about was locking in my 20 and leaving to start a business or work a "normal" job because the hours were awful.

I'm glad I stuck it out all those years, we have pensions that are significant.
Try and stick it out, hopefully things will change. Having been there, I'd like to give you words of encouragement but speaking from my personal experience, 3-11's for a family man with kids, like myself sucks period. No way of sugar coating it. Your pension is worth sticking it out if you can.

Lastly, your better off with the higher pension as it will give you more options. I've seen guys retire because they just wanted to be done, and then went to work for half of what they made with no benefits. Might as well work your main job and increase you're pension so that when you do retire, you can choose whether you want to work or not. I bump into them once in awhile and some of them regret leaving so early. Look at the difference in my pension if I wait five more years.

I would love to retire but when I really weigh my options, it makes sense to stay. I'm on track for 100k this year, free medical, 5 weeks vacation, 12 sick days per year which you can cash out when you retire, two personal days per year, free uniforms plus a 400.00 yearly allowance, a minimum of 3 hours per month for court, and yearly stipends if you hold a degree, 500.00 for an AA and 1,000 for a BA.

With all the bad publicity we get and the bulls eye on our back, I can't wait to retire but in light of our benefits, I can't justify moonlighting as a security guard for a fraction of what I make.

Good luck brother! I hope you can stick it out and keep your sanity. Stay safe.
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Bruce
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Bruce »

Lt. Metz

There is a downside to every job, only you can decide your best opportunity.

Slightly different take on this problem, (and it really is a good problem to have that you are dealing with).

What is the opportunity cost you are giving up by not taking the pension you could get today and do something else?
In effect every day you stay past retirement eligibility, you are cutting your take home pay by what you could be drawing in retirement pay.

One of the most motivated cops I knew came into the chiefs office six months before he was retirement eligible and said "Chief, I just worked my last day, I have enough leave saved up to make the six months until my retirement date and I've been offered another job and start there Monday. I'm taking leave until then, and will be back to turn in my gear and retire in six months."

He is now well into his second career after police work and building another retirement with the federal government.

I would also strongly encourage you to consider taking advantage of any employee tuition assistance available to you to finish your degree while you are still employed there.

It is possible to work mid shift and also go to college during the day; been there, done that, got the degrees.

In your unique case (university police officer) you also may have potential free tuition benefits for your kids or other family members to consider.
That free college tuition opportunity could potentially be worth as much as a pension to you if your kids were able to take advantage of it. However, other Universities may also offer that benefit, and may be options for your next career.

Of course there are many other law enforcement opportunities and opportunities beyond law enforcement available to you. If you are willing to consider moving your family, now may be a great time to start interviewing for other jobs you are interested in. You can always turn them down if offered and you choose not to move on, but it is great to have options, plus you become a stronger candidate with more job interview practice.

Whatever you decide, there are opportunities to be of service to the public on ANY shift. Look for the upside where you can find it.

best regards,
Bruce | | Winner of the 2017 Bogleheads Contest | | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Herekittykitty
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Herekittykitty »

Something else that might make it easier to decide could be if you and your wife had a clear vision of what you wanted to do when you leave police work or at least your current job, and what you and she as a couple and as a family with kids envision for your future.

I have heard that "What Color is Your Parachute" is a good book to help with that - although I have never read it and therefore can't say if it is worthwhile or not.

But I bet if you could step back from the current situation and just dream again with her, and put the dreams to paper, yours and hers and ours, it would be a great exercise and maybe fun and a chance to connect with each other even more. Maybe even take her out on a few dates and dream together when you get home.....

After a few weeks of that, maybe a few months but I bet it goes faster than that, you and she will have narrowed down some real dreams and started putting them together as a couple and then you can start seeing in general how to get there from here for various scenarios. That will take another few weeks or maybe a few months. Next start attaching concrete plans that would head you and her toward the goals, and then put time frames on those plans. Then start implementing the parts of those plans that can be implemented while you are still on the job - including networking, gathering transcripts, and finally sending applications - this could apply to either or both of you.

I would do those things in time increments too - for example, decide what of the above you want to have done within the next six months (or less if you want to), and so on.

In addition to it being more positive to think of where you want to be rather than where you don't want to be, it may open your and her minds up to creative possibilities that hadn't come to mind before. Besides which it could be an uplifting and revitalizing marriage experience.

:D
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Herekittykitty
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Herekittykitty »

Something else that might make it easier to decide could be if you and your wife had a clear vision of what you wanted to do when you leave police work or at least your current job, and what you and she as a couple and as a family with kids envision for your future.

I have heard that "What Color is Your Parachute" is a good book to help with that - although I have never read it and therefore can't say if it is worthwhile or not.

But I bet if you could step back from the current situation and just dream again with her, and put the dreams to paper, yours and hers and ours, it would be a great exercise and maybe fun and a chance to connect with each other even more. Maybe even take her out on a few dates and dream together when you get home.....

After a few weeks of that, maybe a few months but I bet it goes faster than that, you and she will have narrowed down some real dreams and started putting them together as a couple and then you can start seeing in general how to get there from here for various scenarios. That will take another few weeks or maybe a few months. Next start attaching concrete plans that would head you and her toward the goals, and then put time frames on those plans. Then start implementing the parts of those plans that can be implemented while you are still on the job - including networking, gathering transcripts, and finally sending applications - this could apply to either or both of you.

I would do those things in time increments too - for example, decide what of the above you want to have done within the next six months (or less if you want to), and so on.

In addition to it being more positive to think of where you want to be rather than where you don't want to be, it may open your and her minds up to creative possibilities that hadn't come to mind before. Besides which it could be an uplifting and revitalizing marriage experience.

:D
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

VINNY wrote:I'm a police officer in Illinois and I can relate to your situation. In my opinion, you should stay the extra four years. It makes sense financially albeit, it will most definitely suck on your family life, no if's and's or but's about it!
.
Thanks for taking the time to share your story VINNY. It's amazing how similar your situation is. I love how the bogleheads has always come through with such great advice. I really like your point about retiring and then having to work and taking a job that may not be better making even less with worse benefits. I really want to be set when I leave law enforcement and only work on my terms because its something I want to do. I need to suck it up and use a bunch of my vacation leave and make it through this.

Side note, I was talking to the senior sergeant in Patrol who got stuck with me on evenings about our situation. We thought it was funny that as rookies we got treated bad cause we were new, and now as the senior people we get treated bad because we've been there too long.

I can really appreciate how you didn't take the rank because of what it entailed. I didn't put in for captain a year ago for a similar reason, although that was before these new 8 hours shifts.

Thanks again.
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

Bruce wrote:Lt. Metz

There is a downside to every job, only you can decide your best opportunity.
,

Bruce you gave me great advice when I first joined the bogleheads about upgrading my pension, and it's good to hear from you again. I really like the part about continuing my education and finding the job before I leave here if that's what I decide to do. I did take classes for awhile prior to hurricane Katrina and kids.

Hope all is well brother.
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

Herekittykitty wrote:Something else that might make it easier to decide could be if you and your wife had a clear vision of what you wanted to do when you leave police work or at least your current job, and what you and she as a couple and as a family with kids envision for your future.

I have heard that "What Color is Your Parachute" is a good book to help with that - although I have never read it and therefore can't say if it is worthwhile or not.

But I bet if you could step back from the current situation and just dream again with her, and put the dreams to paper, yours and hers and ours, it would be a great exercise and maybe fun and a chance to connect with each other even more. Maybe even take her out on a few dates and dream together when you get home.....

After a few weeks of that, maybe a few months but I bet it goes faster than that, you and she will have narrowed down some real dreams and started putting them together as a couple and then you can start seeing in general how to get there from here for various scenarios. That will take another few weeks or maybe a few months. Next start attaching concrete plans that would head you and her toward the goals, and then put time frames on those plans. Then start implementing the parts of those plans that can be implemented while you are still on the job - including networking, gathering transcripts, and finally sending applications - this could apply to either or both of you.

I would do those things in time increments too - for example, decide what of the above you want to have done within the next six months (or less if you want to), and so on.

In addition to it being more positive to think of where you want to be rather than where you don't want to be, it may open your and her minds up to creative possibilities that hadn't come to mind before. Besides which it could be an uplifting and revitalizing marriage experience.

:D
It's funny how one get's so busy with living life and working that we don't take the time to do what you suggest more often. I'm going to show this post to my wife and try this with her.

Thanks Kittykitty
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.
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Miriam2
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Miriam2 »

ofcmetz wrote:I need to . . . use a bunch of my vacation leave and make it through this.
Another possible way to make it through burnout is the expression "A change is as good as a vacation." Perhaps, if possible, change some of your jobs or responsibilities, that same-old same-old treadmill work that gets to be too much after a while.
For me, it was changing some projects and responsibilities at work, picking up something new, learning something different - it helped to relieve the burnout that creeps up after years doing the same thing.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ResearchMed »

ofcmetz,

While you are putting in these extra few years, that is obviously making your financial future much more secure (and that's aside from any additional income/pensions if you find another part or full time job later).

If current cash flow isn't limiting, how about taking a bit of that money and taking a few vacations each year that include the children.
That will be very special bonding time.
Even occasional weekends away would serve this important purpose.

Camping, sightseeing, or even a hotel/motel with a pool...
Those don't have to cost a fortune.
But if you have the money for one "special" vacation each year, that would be nice, too. Perhaps to a location that would both be enjoyable and give the children exposure to some other areas/experiences?

RM
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Pugs135
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by Pugs135 »

I agree with the posters that say you need to stay. Do your best to make what you can over the next 4 years. When you retire in 4 years your kids will be 13 and 11 and you can make every event then. Also the extra money will help you and your kids get more enjoyment for the rest of your lives.
SGM
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by SGM »

The additional 20k per year is too valuable to you and your family to give up. If you recently were promoted you are the low man on the totem pole and maybe conditions will change for the better. You will have a good well deserved pension at age 40 and your kids will still be young when you retire. You will be free to change jobs or careers in 4 years. You are in an enviable position. Thanks for your service.
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

SGM wrote:The additional 20k per year is too valuable to you and your family to give up. If you recently were promoted you are the low man on the totem pole and maybe conditions will change for the better. You will have a good well deserved pension at age 40 and your kids will still be young when you retire. You will be free to change jobs or careers in 4 years. You are in an enviable position. Thanks for your service.

I'm seeing that this 20K will make the difference between having to work and just working if I need to.

Wish I had been recently promoted, but I am the senior guy at my rank and like I said before I got this position because I am senior and they don't think I'll quit.
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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement with a pension

Post by ofcmetz »

ResearchMed wrote:
If current cash flow isn't limiting, how about taking a bit of that money and taking a few vacations each year that include the children.
That will be very special bonding time.
Even occasional weekends away would serve this important purpose.

RM
Thanks RM.

We've started planning some cheap beach trips every few months to do just this. I'm already looking forward to the next one in October. I'm going to make this a priority.
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.
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