Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
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Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Hello Bogleheads,
My girlfriend finished up her grad program in the beginning of July and now she has moved back home ( ). For two years, she had been living in Vermont with three other housemates (who came and went at various times, but there remained 3 other housemates throughout the two years). Now she is living back in Massachusetts.
Unfortunately, one of the housemates owes my girlfriend money (for cable, utilities, etc.) and hasn't been responding to her messages. The rent was paid by each tenant to the landlord directly. The cable, electricity, and plowing were paid by my girlfriend with the arrangement that the other 3 housemates would pay her back (proportionately, so that they would each pay their fair share). There weren't any problems with any of the other housemates and they have all paid in full. My girlfriend got along well enough with the housemate who hasn't paid, but they were not friends prior to living together.
The question is, what should we do about the housemate who isn't responding to my girlfriend's messages? My girlfriend has tried to politely remind her via text and email, but she hasn't responded at all. I am certain that the housemate has at least seen the texts because I sent her a text message via a Google Voice number just to see if she would respond (I didn't respond back once she replied). It has been since July 11th that my girlfriend moved out, and the housemate had moved out the week before. She had told my girlfriend that she would pay up by the 11th. Our main concern is that she hasn't been responding/acknowledging my girlfriend's messages. The amount that she owes was built up over a period of a few months (i.e. this isn't from a single bill or month of bills).
How long should we wait before we take any action? If we do take action, what should we do?
It's not enough money to hire a lawyer but it is enough money that we don't want to let it slide. My guess is we'd need to take it to small claims court. This is not ideal because, as mentioned, my girlfriend is back in Massachusetts now, but if that's what it comes down to, so be it. Obviously if there is another way to resolve this without having to do go to court that would be ideal.
Another cause for concern is that my girlfriend has a friend from school who has warned her/given indications that this housemate may not pay her back, based on this friend's prior experience with living with her. My girlfriend is going to send her friend an email asking more about this and how that ended up being resolved. In the mean time, I'm concerned that this is indicative of her having a past history of not paying people back.
Also, what is even more aggravating about this situation is that this housemate insisted on adding a home phone line (to the cable bill, which was an additional $40 per month) when my girlfriend and the other two housemates were okay with just using their cell phones.
Thank you in advance for any advice offered. We appreciate it.
SD
My girlfriend finished up her grad program in the beginning of July and now she has moved back home ( ). For two years, she had been living in Vermont with three other housemates (who came and went at various times, but there remained 3 other housemates throughout the two years). Now she is living back in Massachusetts.
Unfortunately, one of the housemates owes my girlfriend money (for cable, utilities, etc.) and hasn't been responding to her messages. The rent was paid by each tenant to the landlord directly. The cable, electricity, and plowing were paid by my girlfriend with the arrangement that the other 3 housemates would pay her back (proportionately, so that they would each pay their fair share). There weren't any problems with any of the other housemates and they have all paid in full. My girlfriend got along well enough with the housemate who hasn't paid, but they were not friends prior to living together.
The question is, what should we do about the housemate who isn't responding to my girlfriend's messages? My girlfriend has tried to politely remind her via text and email, but she hasn't responded at all. I am certain that the housemate has at least seen the texts because I sent her a text message via a Google Voice number just to see if she would respond (I didn't respond back once she replied). It has been since July 11th that my girlfriend moved out, and the housemate had moved out the week before. She had told my girlfriend that she would pay up by the 11th. Our main concern is that she hasn't been responding/acknowledging my girlfriend's messages. The amount that she owes was built up over a period of a few months (i.e. this isn't from a single bill or month of bills).
How long should we wait before we take any action? If we do take action, what should we do?
It's not enough money to hire a lawyer but it is enough money that we don't want to let it slide. My guess is we'd need to take it to small claims court. This is not ideal because, as mentioned, my girlfriend is back in Massachusetts now, but if that's what it comes down to, so be it. Obviously if there is another way to resolve this without having to do go to court that would be ideal.
Another cause for concern is that my girlfriend has a friend from school who has warned her/given indications that this housemate may not pay her back, based on this friend's prior experience with living with her. My girlfriend is going to send her friend an email asking more about this and how that ended up being resolved. In the mean time, I'm concerned that this is indicative of her having a past history of not paying people back.
Also, what is even more aggravating about this situation is that this housemate insisted on adding a home phone line (to the cable bill, which was an additional $40 per month) when my girlfriend and the other two housemates were okay with just using their cell phones.
Thank you in advance for any advice offered. We appreciate it.
SD
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
How much is owed?
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
What is the dollar amount that the former roommate owes? $40? $100? $200??
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Lawyer or small claims court.
There really aren't any other options.
https://www.rocketlawyer.com/article/ho ... usiness.rl
There really aren't any other options.
https://www.rocketlawyer.com/article/ho ... usiness.rl
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Some things in life you just need to let go. This is probably going to be one of them.
It is less than a month since she has moved out. You would get laughed out of small claims court for filing a claim so soon. The best you can do is periodically try to get this person to pay. Using mutual friends if possible. However, I am going to say that you have very little chance of collecting this money if the person doesn't want to pay.
Say you want to take her to small claims court. This would have to be done in VT. That is where this supposed agreement occurred and where the
jurisdiction is. You girlfriend is going to have to drive to VT once to file the claim and once to appear for the hearing. Are the roommates going to be willing to travel from wherever they are to be witnesses? Probably not.
Was there a written agreement describing the exact costing sharing a payment requirements? I think probably not. If there were roommates coming and going was there even an explicit verbal agreement between the parties? Here again probably not. Your only saving grace is probably that the deadbeat roommate will probably no show and you will get a default judgment.
Great, then you will learn that in most all states, small claims court judgments are unenforceable. So I f they don't want to pay, you usually have to go to the next court level to get an order to enforce the small claims judgment. Even then there is no guarantee you will get paid. Especially, if they now live in a jurisdiction across the country.
So, I would continue to socialize the collection efforts, but let it go if the money is not forthcoming. What is it a $200 - $300 or so, let it go.
It is less than a month since she has moved out. You would get laughed out of small claims court for filing a claim so soon. The best you can do is periodically try to get this person to pay. Using mutual friends if possible. However, I am going to say that you have very little chance of collecting this money if the person doesn't want to pay.
Say you want to take her to small claims court. This would have to be done in VT. That is where this supposed agreement occurred and where the
jurisdiction is. You girlfriend is going to have to drive to VT once to file the claim and once to appear for the hearing. Are the roommates going to be willing to travel from wherever they are to be witnesses? Probably not.
Was there a written agreement describing the exact costing sharing a payment requirements? I think probably not. If there were roommates coming and going was there even an explicit verbal agreement between the parties? Here again probably not. Your only saving grace is probably that the deadbeat roommate will probably no show and you will get a default judgment.
Great, then you will learn that in most all states, small claims court judgments are unenforceable. So I f they don't want to pay, you usually have to go to the next court level to get an order to enforce the small claims judgment. Even then there is no guarantee you will get paid. Especially, if they now live in a jurisdiction across the country.
So, I would continue to socialize the collection efforts, but let it go if the money is not forthcoming. What is it a $200 - $300 or so, let it go.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I don't see how this can be more than like 50 bucks unless she hasn't paid for like 4 months.StretchArmstrong wrote:What is the dollar amount that the former roommate owes? $40? $100? $200??
Moral of the story is listen to references and don't extend credit to deadbeats
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
$416.82
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Well, as I said in my original post, this was for cable, electricity and plowing over the course of a few months.randomguy wrote:I don't see how this can be more than like 50 bucks unless she hasn't paid for like 4 months.StretchArmstrong wrote:What is the dollar amount that the former roommate owes? $40? $100? $200??
Moral of the story is listen to references and don't extend credit to deadbeats
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Did your girlfriend have a written contract drawn up indicating payment terms or something else in writing indicating who would pay the bill and how repayment on a pro-rata basis would be made? You could sue the individual in writing, but even if you win the case, it's very likely you are going to learn a powerful lesson about lending money. In all likelihood, this deadbeat is not going to pay a dime back to your girlfriend. I would have cut the person off after the first month......then let the heat (the other girls) go after the deadbeat. No one wants to be with out utilities....
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
$416.82 is just not enough to justify filing small claims in a non-resident state with the defendant and possible witnesses also non-residents.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Hm, well the former housemate is still living in Vermont. The house was about a two hour drive away from where we live.Spirit Rider wrote:$416.82 is just not enough to justify filing small claims in a non-resident state with the defendant and possible witnesses also non-residents.
Thanks again to everyone.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Another lesson learned! Some people lose $$ to deadbeats, others lose $$$$+ to Advisors. It is a downer, just like having a "best friend" steal from you is a downer (that actually happened to me.) Live and learn.
If you are willing to go the small claims court, send her a certified letter with return receipt requested, stating that you intend to file a claim for the debt + expenses in X days if she doesn't pay you. Then follow through. That should at least be a learning experience.
If you are willing to go the small claims court, send her a certified letter with return receipt requested, stating that you intend to file a claim for the debt + expenses in X days if she doesn't pay you. Then follow through. That should at least be a learning experience.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I don't know many people boglehead or otherwise that would cheerily waive off $400 owed to them. Unfortunately, I don't think it's enough to validate persuit via legal means. I would keep periodically pestering this person until you get a response. The truth is, you're probably SOL and lesson learned- don't let a roommate run up a tab and expect to get it back. I learned a roommate lesson once about why I should be the one in charge of paying the utility bills when our electricity got shut off. Turns out it's very tough to get much of anything accomplished without electricity.Silence Dogood wrote:$416.82
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
I’d trade it all for a little more |
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Compared to grad school costs $416 is pretty cheap tuition for the lesson GF learned.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I feel your pain. I have never had a clean move out situation with roommates. There is always an unpaid utility bill, small damage, one party doing all the cleaning, or getting screwed on the return of the deposit when you pay in and the total is under someone else's name. That's simply the cost that comes with the significant savings of having housemates.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
There is no legal document but there are e-mails. The way it would work is my girlfriend would get the bill, and then e-mail everyone the amount. Each housemate would then pay her back. There were different things that others would cover (for example, heating oil) that she would pay them back for.Grt2bOutdoors wrote:Did your girlfriend have a written contract drawn up indicating payment terms or something else in writing indicating who would pay the bill and how repayment on a pro-rata basis would be made? You could sue the individual in writing, but even if you win the case, it's very likely you are going to learn a powerful lesson about lending money. In all likelihood, this deadbeat is not going to pay a dime back to your girlfriend. I would have cut the person off after the first month......then let the heat (the other girls) go after the deadbeat. No one wants to be with out utilities....
This housemate had been living there for a year and had always paid up until for last few (3?) months.
Is there distinction between lending someone money and someone just not paying back?
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Yes, I do think that it was a mistake to let her run up the tab. It's not something I would have allowed but my girlfriend is less confrontational than me in that respect (not that I'm a particularly aggressive person).JonnyDVM wrote:I don't know many people boglehead or otherwise that would cheerily waive off $400 owed to them. Unfortunately, I don't think it's enough to validate persuit via legal means. I would keep periodically pestering this person until you get a response. The truth is, you're probably SOL and lesson learned- don't let a roommate run up a tab and expect to get it back. I learned a roommate lesson once about why I should be the one in charge of paying the utility bills when our electricity got shut off. Turns out it's very tough to get much of anything accomplished without electricity.Silence Dogood wrote:$416.82
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
I just can't understand the mindset of someone thinking that it's okay to do that. To me, it's the equivalent of going into someone's wallet and taking the money. This roommate went on vacation to the Caribbean with her boyfriend about a month ago. She seemed to have enough money for that.
Do you think that it's appropriate/okay to contact people she knows, like her boyfriend/parents?
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
It sounds like you and your girlfriend are honest and pay your debts. There are plenty of people around (aka deadbeats) who are quite content not paying debts and aren't bothered at all by it. She's lucky that there was only one during her stay. That said, it's only been a month, and there's a small chance the roommate will cough up, unlikely but possible. As far as small claims court, I once won a judgement against a car dealer (for well under $1,000 I recall--and the courthouse is in my town, so it was easy to do), but then had to hire a marshal to collect it--deadbeats don't usually listen to court judgements unless forced. All it does it gives you the legal right to take other steps to force payment. After discussing the process with a marshal, I realized it wasn't worth the trouble and expense.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I guess the lesson learned is that even a simple arrangement like paying the cable bill needs to be negotiated by a team of lawyers.cheese_breath wrote:Compared to grad school costs $416 is pretty cheap tuition for the lesson GF learned.
I don't think the cost of grad school is in any way relevant. The housemate who owes her money wasn't even in school.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
LOL. I think you are missing the point.Silence Dogood wrote:I guess the lesson learned is that even a simple arrangement like paying the cable bill needs to be negotiated by a team of lawyers.cheese_breath wrote:Compared to grad school costs $416 is pretty cheap tuition for the lesson GF learned.
I don't think the cost of grad school is in any way relevant. The housemate who owes her money wasn't even in school.
This $416 is yet another cost for your girlfriend.
I hope she learns this lesson the next time.
I *never* loan money that I wasn't prepared to lose.
That is essentially what your girlfriend did. She loaned money to this deadbeat. She had warning, but she chose to ignore it.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Yes, that was the point. GF learned a $416 lesson about lending money to friends. It doesn't matter whether the friend was in grad school or the Army. (And please don't tell me the housemate wasn't in the Army. It doesn't matter.)ieee488 wrote:LOL. I think you are missing the point.Silence Dogood wrote:I guess the lesson learned is that even a simple arrangement like paying the cable bill needs to be negotiated by a team of lawyers.cheese_breath wrote:Compared to grad school costs $416 is pretty cheap tuition for the lesson GF learned.
I don't think the cost of grad school is in any way relevant. The housemate who owes her money wasn't even in school.
This $416 is yet another cost for your girlfriend....
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
There's an old saying from the race track: When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with the money gets the experience and the man with experience gets the money.
As a very bright 13 year-old once told me, "When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
Lesson: The next time anyone asks you for a loan, consider it a gift, politely refuse or get the agreement in writing. You are not a bank and have no obligation to lend money to anyone. In the grand scheme of things, $416.82 won't really matter. However had someone owed me that amount of money when I was in grad school, it would have been a financial disaster. I am sorry for your friend's misfortune but it's a lesson best learned early in life.
As a very bright 13 year-old once told me, "When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
Lesson: The next time anyone asks you for a loan, consider it a gift, politely refuse or get the agreement in writing. You are not a bank and have no obligation to lend money to anyone. In the grand scheme of things, $416.82 won't really matter. However had someone owed me that amount of money when I was in grad school, it would have been a financial disaster. I am sorry for your friend's misfortune but it's a lesson best learned early in life.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
+1mlebuf wrote:In the grand scheme of things, $416.82 won't really matter. However had someone owed me that amount of money when I was in grad school, it would have been a financial disaster. I am sorry for your friend's misfortune but it's a lesson best learned early in life.
I understand that amount of money can be a fortune to someone just starting out, but it's a cheap lesson compared to some threads we get on this forum from people whose friends or relatives owe them thousands of dollars they'll never see again.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I got a cynical lecture from my first boss out of school about a month into the job that I find myself often reciting. It goes along the lines of this- you see, a lot of people, they aren't like you and me. When we walk into a business, the idea of not paying never even occurs to us. But many people, the second they walk in they're scheming to take advantage and get as much off the bill as they can or not pay at all.Silence Dogood wrote:Yes, I do think that it was a mistake to let her run up the tab. It's not something I would have allowed but my girlfriend is less confrontational than me in that respect (not that I'm a particularly aggressive person).JonnyDVM wrote:I don't know many people boglehead or otherwise that would cheerily waive off $400 owed to them. Unfortunately, I don't think it's enough to validate persuit via legal means. I would keep periodically pestering this person until you get a response. The truth is, you're probably SOL and lesson learned- don't let a roommate run up a tab and expect to get it back. I learned a roommate lesson once about why I should be the one in charge of paying the utility bills when our electricity got shut off. Turns out it's very tough to get much of anything accomplished without electricity.Silence Dogood wrote:$416.82
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
I just can't understand the mindset of someone thinking that it's okay to do that. To me, it's the equivalent of going into someone's wallet and taking the money. This roommate went on vacation to the Caribbean with her boyfriend about a month ago. She seemed to have enough money for that.
Do you think that it's appropriate/okay to contact people she knows, like her boyfriend/parents?
Along those same lines the truth is many people think that they can borrow money from people and never pay it back and that's ok. It doesn't bother them at all. You and I, we can't imagine owing someone money for something like utilities and not repaying it. Or even worse, owing someone hundreds of dollars and taking a pricey vacation. But it's amazing how many seemingly normal people will take advantage of a situation like this when given the opportunity.
If you happen to know the parents well you could mention it to them, but otherwise I probably wouldn't bother. Same with the boyfriend. Be persistent. Maybe she doesn't have enough cash at the moment (and prioritizes poorly) and does plan to pay it back eventually. Something like a text or email every week or two would be enough to drive most people to repay a debt owed. Good luck. Sometimes it sucks to be the responsible one. If in the end you don't get the money back don't let it consume you. $400 probably seems like a huge sum of money now (In grad school I know that was a ton of money to me), but in a few years when the random daily fluctuation of your portfolio is multiples of $400 I'm sure it will seem like a lot less and you'll probably laugh at yourself for how angry it made you. The hard feelings towards the person though never seems to fade, at least when it has happened to me!
Last edited by JonnyDVM on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Forget evidence that she owes the money and any possible notion of collecting this through legal means. It's not worth it to file in small claims court out of state or pursue through legal means at all. Your only real option is to continue to apply pressure through texts, calls, emails, etc. Perhaps mutual friends, spread the word she owes you money. If none of this works, perhaps send a letter through registered mail threatening legal action if not paid by x date. This would be a bluff and it would not be worth actually going through with the legal action.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
The parents might actually be a viable approach to persuade the former room mate to pay what she owes if nothing else works. Its possible the parents will be sufficiently appalled to actually make her pay up. (Although alternately she might have learned this behavior from them so they will think almost nothing of it.) I would not attempt something like shaming her through her boyfriend because its incredibly unlikely to work and would if anything backfire.Silence Dogood wrote: Do you think that it's appropriate/okay to contact people she knows, like her boyfriend/parents?
At this point if you do contact the parents I would stick with a rather moderately phrased message to them asking if they had any current contact info for their daughter because she still owes money for cable and utilities and you two have been unable to reach her successfully. (At this point I would absolutely avoid any exact numbers, or even indicate specifically that it is a large amount unless this is a phone conversation and you are asked point blank, and leave the impression you believe this could merely be a communication issue even though you know this is BS.) The point would be to make it explicitly clear to the room mate that you are certainly not going to drop this and this is going to escalate unless she pays up. (And she has the option of paying up before the parents actually learn the ugly details.)
You leave the heavy guns where you really go into the details of the daughters behavior and how so far she has refused to pay up until significantly after this which also effectively shows its certainly not simply some sort of miscommunication issue and you didn't rush to judgement. I certainly don't think at this point you actually need to know the parents for the first version of this communication, (where you are technically just asking for current valid contact info) and you can ultimately get in the ugly details regardless of how well you know the parents although I would effectively leave the threat of you doing this in play and not commit until its clear essentially nothing else is going to work and this is the last resort. (As noted her paying it back over time might be something you have to live with although obviously that doesn't mean you accept her putting off starting to pay it off indefinitely.)
Another ultimate option if you do have or get a current address for her might be to send a legal sounding letter threatening to sue in small claims court if she does not pay up. (For the reasons mentioned in this thread actually doing this is unlikely to be worth it, but its possible the room mate won't know this and be scared into paying up to avoid what she imagines could be the consequences, registered mail is a bit more expensive option which could make things seem more intimidating, but the reality is this is far as you are realistically going to go.)
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
But the housemate wasn't in the Army...cheese_breath wrote:Yes, that was the point. GF learned a $416 lesson about lending money to friends. It doesn't matter whether the friend was in grad school or the Army. (And please don't tell me the housemate wasn't in the Army. It doesn't matter.)ieee488 wrote:LOL. I think you are missing the point.Silence Dogood wrote:I guess the lesson learned is that even a simple arrangement like paying the cable bill needs to be negotiated by a team of lawyers.cheese_breath wrote:Compared to grad school costs $416 is pretty cheap tuition for the lesson GF learned.
I don't think the cost of grad school is in any way relevant. The housemate who owes her money wasn't even in school.
This $416 is yet another cost for your girlfriend....
I'm joking.
I was just trying to make the point that I don't see the money owed as being relevant to the cost of grad school. Unlike the lessons learned in grad school, my girlfriend won't really get much out of this. This was sort of a one-off event. She doesn't have any plans to rent with anyone other than me - and that will only be after we're married. Other than that she has never and was never planning on lending out money to anyone. As you can imagine, she was very busy trying to finish up her thesis, so I'm sure somewhere in the back of her mind may have been the cable bill, but it was WAY back in the mind with everything going on.
As Mr. LeBoeuf pointed out, losing $416 is tough when starting out.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Thanks, I'll try to see if she can follow through with these suggestions. My girlfriend has said that she wouldn't mind being paid back over time. We're not looking to be punitive, we just want the money.Mordoch wrote:The parents might actually be a viable approach to persuade the former room mate to pay what she owes if nothing else works. Its possible the parents will be sufficiently appalled to actually make her pay up. (Although alternately she might have learned this behavior from them so they will think almost nothing of it.) I would not attempt something like shaming her through her boyfriend because its incredibly unlikely to work and would if anything backfire.Silence Dogood wrote: Do you think that it's appropriate/okay to contact people she knows, like her boyfriend/parents?
At this point if you do contact the parents I would stick with a rather moderately phrased message to them asking if they had any current contact info for their daughter because she still owes money for cable and utilities and you two have been unable to reach her successfully. (At this point I would absolutely avoid any exact numbers, or even indicate specifically that it is a large amount unless this is a phone conversation and you are asked point blank, and leave the impression you believe this could merely be a communication issue even though you know this is BS.) The point would be to make it explicitly clear to the room mate that you are certainly not going to drop this and this is going to escalate unless she pays up. (And she has the option of paying up before the parents actually learn the ugly details.)
You leave the heavy guns where you really go into the details of the daughters behavior and how so far she has refused to pay up until significantly after this which also effectively shows its certainly not simply some sort of miscommunication issue and you didn't rush to judgement. I certainly don't think at this point you actually need to know the parents for the first version of this communication, (where you are technically just asking for current valid contact info) and you can ultimately get in the ugly details regardless of how well you know the parents although I would effectively leave the threat of you doing this in play and not commit until its clear essentially nothing else is going to work and this is the last resort. (As noted her paying it back over time might be something you have to live with although obviously that doesn't mean you accept her putting off starting to pay it off indefinitely.)
Another ultimate option if you do have or get a current address for her might be to send a legal sounding letter threatening to sue in small claims court if she does not pay up. (For the reasons mentioned in this thread actually doing this is unlikely to be worth it, but its possible the room mate won't know this and be scared into paying up to avoid what she imagines could be the consequences, registered mail is a bit more expensive option which could make things seem more intimidating, but the reality is this is far as you are realistically going to go.)
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I was in that situation about 20 years ago. The deadbeat was a graduating medical student. The amount was smaller (maybe $100) and I realized pretty quickly that there was no efficient way to collect. Frankly, in my case I didn't think that the roommate was intentionally running out on the bill; she was just very disorganized and probably misplaced the bill and reminders (I think I sent two).
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Thanks for this. Captures my feelings exactly.JonnyDVM wrote:I got a cynical lecture from my first boss out of school about a month into the job that I find myself often reciting. It goes along the lines of this- you see, a lot of people, they aren't like you and me. When we walk into a business, the idea of not paying never even occurs to us. But many people, the second they walk in they're scheming to take advantage and get as much off the bill as they can or not pay at all.Silence Dogood wrote:Yes, I do think that it was a mistake to let her run up the tab. It's not something I would have allowed but my girlfriend is less confrontational than me in that respect (not that I'm a particularly aggressive person).JonnyDVM wrote:I don't know many people boglehead or otherwise that would cheerily waive off $400 owed to them. Unfortunately, I don't think it's enough to validate persuit via legal means. I would keep periodically pestering this person until you get a response. The truth is, you're probably SOL and lesson learned- don't let a roommate run up a tab and expect to get it back. I learned a roommate lesson once about why I should be the one in charge of paying the utility bills when our electricity got shut off. Turns out it's very tough to get much of anything accomplished without electricity.Silence Dogood wrote:$416.82
I know to some Bogleheads this may not be a lot of money, but it is for us.
Thanks to all who have responded!
I just can't understand the mindset of someone thinking that it's okay to do that. To me, it's the equivalent of going into someone's wallet and taking the money. This roommate went on vacation to the Caribbean with her boyfriend about a month ago. She seemed to have enough money for that.
Do you think that it's appropriate/okay to contact people she knows, like her boyfriend/parents?
Along those same lines the truth is many people think that they can borrow money from people and never pay it back and that's ok. It doesn't bother them at all. You and I, we can't imagine owing someone money for something like utilities and not repaying it. Or even worse, owing someone hundreds of dollars and taking a pricey vacation. But it's amazing how many seemingly normal people will take advantage of a situation like this when given the opportunity.
If you happen to know the parents well you could mention it to them, but otherwise I probably wouldn't bother. Same with the boyfriend. Be persistent. Maybe she doesn't have enough cash at the moment (and prioritizes poorly) and does plan to pay it back eventually. Something like a text or email every week or two would be enough to drive most people to repay a debt owed. Good luck. Sometimes it sucks to be the responsible one. If in the end you don't get the money back don't let it consume you. $400 probably seems like a huge sum of money now (In grad school I know that was a ton of money to me), but in a few years when the random daily fluctuation of your portfolio is multiples of $400 I'm sure it will seem like a lot less and you'll probably laugh at yourself for how angry it made you. The hard feelings towards the person though never seems to fade, at least when it has happened to me!
I don't know the parents but have met the boyfriend. He seems like a nice guy. They haven't been in a relationship for too long (I think 6 months?) but she moved in with him after moving out of the place with my girlfriend.
Last edited by Silence Dogood on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Hi SdG,
to me and you $400 is a significant chunk of money,
I'd would send the warning about the Small Claims Court suit, and sue if need be.
And of course, be open to a reasonable offer.
People in your extended circle of acquaintances will get the signal that you prefer honest deals.
to me and you $400 is a significant chunk of money,
I'd would send the warning about the Small Claims Court suit, and sue if need be.
And of course, be open to a reasonable offer.
People in your extended circle of acquaintances will get the signal that you prefer honest deals.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
1) If you do decide to contact parents/friends, be VERY civil, to the point and brief, i.e. something like "I'm trying to contact person X because I need to deliver a final bill/request for reimbursement for mutually agreed upon living expenses. I have been using email Y and cell number Z, but have not had a response, so perhaps I have the wrong contact info? If so, will you please let X know that I am attempting to deliver a final bill/invoice/payment amount. Thanks for your help and sorry to bother you!"
2) If #1 fails, that consider small claims court. It may be not be worth the effort directly, but look at is as a learning process. By going through the motions, you might learn something in general which may benefit you at a future date. And who knows, a letter/summons to appear in small claims court may be enough to get the roommate to pay. It may be unexpected enough to jolt her into compliance.
Good luck, and keep up posted!
Neurosphere
2) If #1 fails, that consider small claims court. It may be not be worth the effort directly, but look at is as a learning process. By going through the motions, you might learn something in general which may benefit you at a future date. And who knows, a letter/summons to appear in small claims court may be enough to get the roommate to pay. It may be unexpected enough to jolt her into compliance.
Good luck, and keep up posted!
Neurosphere
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
This is not unusual for grad school housemate situations, even when they have adequate money from science stipends at big-name schools, or from trust funds.
What's worked in the past for me is to write a email, listing the bills and their share of each, and mentioning that this is too much money for me to cover. It was genuinely awkward, and I was somewhat apologetic about having to bring it up.
If it were a smaller amount, I'd say give it a couple tries, and then eat it. For $400, though, if the person is unresponsive or can't be located, I would consider approaching their parent/guardian/trustee/school, and asking how to reach the person (without getting into why, beyond saying that you're a past housemate, if asked).
I suspect that small claims won't work well, when people are no longer living in that jurisdiction. Even if you travel to a hearing, and the court finds in your favor, how are you going to enforce it and collect.
What's worked in the past for me is to write a email, listing the bills and their share of each, and mentioning that this is too much money for me to cover. It was genuinely awkward, and I was somewhat apologetic about having to bring it up.
If it were a smaller amount, I'd say give it a couple tries, and then eat it. For $400, though, if the person is unresponsive or can't be located, I would consider approaching their parent/guardian/trustee/school, and asking how to reach the person (without getting into why, beyond saying that you're a past housemate, if asked).
I suspect that small claims won't work well, when people are no longer living in that jurisdiction. Even if you travel to a hearing, and the court finds in your favor, how are you going to enforce it and collect.
Last edited by fidobogo on Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I was once a former housemate who owed money and didn't pay.
My two housemates moved out about two weeks before I did, yet had lived at the house for a much longer period of time than I did. They pretty much packed their bags and left. It took me nearly the entire two weeks to clean the house and have it ready to turn the keys back over to the landlord.
I got an email from one of the housemates that I owed x amount of dollars for the heating oil. I told her if I were reimbursed for my time cleaning up her mess I'd gladly pay.
Some times it's just best to let things go.
My two housemates moved out about two weeks before I did, yet had lived at the house for a much longer period of time than I did. They pretty much packed their bags and left. It took me nearly the entire two weeks to clean the house and have it ready to turn the keys back over to the landlord.
I got an email from one of the housemates that I owed x amount of dollars for the heating oil. I told her if I were reimbursed for my time cleaning up her mess I'd gladly pay.
Some times it's just best to let things go.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I vote for this approach. Parents would like to think that they taught their children the Golden Rule. Perhaps in this situation, the parents would follow through to make sure you would be reimbursed. Good luck.neurosphere wrote:1) If you do decide to contact parents/friends, be VERY civil, to the point and brief, i.e. something like "I'm trying to contact person X because I need to deliver a final bill/request for reimbursement for mutually agreed upon living expenses. I have been using email Y and cell number Z, but have not had a response, so perhaps I have the wrong contact info? If so, will you please let X know that I am attempting to deliver a final bill/invoice/payment amount. Thanks for your help and sorry to bother you."
“It’s the curse of old men to realize that in the end we control nothing." "Homeland" episode, "Gerontion"
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Ask the former housemate if she wants to be a TV star (on Judge Judy).
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
If nothing else works you might consider asking the other two housemates to cover part of the deadbeat's share. It sounds like you all agreed to share expenses, so your girlfriend shouldn't have to shoulder all the costs if this woman won't pay up.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
How about sending an email to ALL the housemates acknowledging those who have paid their share of the utilities and listing the amount owed by the delinquent roommate? I would resend the email periodically so everyone knows she hasn't paid her share. Maybe she will be embarrassed enough to pay up.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
You need to be unrelenting. That is what it takes. Add the deadbeat's parents emails to the distribution list as unpaid months go by. A warning to the deadbeat that facebook page and linkedin page for the deadbeat club in her name might be created could be some leverage.Jill07 wrote:How about sending an email to ALL the housemates acknowledging those who have paid their share of the utilities and listing the amount owed by the delinquent roommate? I would resend the email periodically so everyone knows she hasn't paid her share. Maybe she will be embarrassed enough to pay up.
do these 2 actions
Do these.neurosphere wrote:1) If you do decide to contact parents/friends?..
2) If #1 fails, that consider small claims court. It may...
The experience will be good.
This is excellent advice.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Sorry, but I disagree. Through the many decades of one's life (s)he will likely encounter close friends and/or relatives with irresistible sob stories that will break your heart asking for loans, promising on the Bible to pay them back. Then they don't. When they come to you crying for money this $416 lesson might save you thousands $$$.Silence Dogood wrote:
I was just trying to make the point that I don't see the money owed as being relevant to the cost of grad school. Unlike the lessons learned in grad school, my girlfriend won't really get much out of this. This was sort of a one-off event....
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I think it is advisable to tread carefully when escalating like this. This individual has already shown they are not trustworthy. What's to stop them from making retaliatory responses in kind with blatant untruths? Then this has gone beyond your control and could possibly blow up in your face.jabberwock wrote:
You need to be unrelenting. That is what it takes. Add the deadbeat's parents emails to the distribution list as unpaid months go by. A warning to the deadbeat that facebook page and linkedin page for the deadbeat club in her name might be created could be some leverage.
I think the OP's spouse should contact the parents and also see if the other roommates are willing to split the difference. A letter threatening small claims court may also help, but as others have said I would not actually pursue this route.
Good Luck! Sorry your spouse got screwed like this.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I question the wisdom of contacting the boyfriend/parents. You are not a debt collector so it probably isn't illegal, but will it get you what you want or is it just retaliation.
I have never failed to pay a debt that I owed even in my youth. However, If someone contacted my girlfriend/parents just a month after I moved out over some shared expenses, at least my initial reaction would be Hell, NO!
As I said before, somebody is in just a bit of a rush here. At a minimum, you should send a demand letter by registered mail. Then if you haven't been contacted to arrange payment say in thirty days, you can go the small claims court route if you want.
I have never failed to pay a debt that I owed even in my youth. However, If someone contacted my girlfriend/parents just a month after I moved out over some shared expenses, at least my initial reaction would be Hell, NO!
As I said before, somebody is in just a bit of a rush here. At a minimum, you should send a demand letter by registered mail. Then if you haven't been contacted to arrange payment say in thirty days, you can go the small claims court route if you want.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I'm sorry this happened to your GF. In my experience, trying to embarrass someone whose behavior is embarrassing is unlikely to succeed, because they've usually fortified some position that justifies their behavior. YMMV.
The second time one fronts money to someone who hasn't repaid the first loan is all those kinds of people need to ask you for a third loan. It's the old "fool me once..." thing. Be generous, be trusting, but don't be a doormat.
Take a deep breath, and this is one of those times when you hope karma is a real thing Even if karma doesn't work, your GF is a good person, the other person is a jerk, and who would you rather be?
The second time one fronts money to someone who hasn't repaid the first loan is all those kinds of people need to ask you for a third loan. It's the old "fool me once..." thing. Be generous, be trusting, but don't be a doormat.
Take a deep breath, and this is one of those times when you hope karma is a real thing Even if karma doesn't work, your GF is a good person, the other person is a jerk, and who would you rather be?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
No, you should reread the OPs other posts. This debt has been accumulating for a few months.Spirit Rider wrote:As I said before, somebody is in just a bit of a rush here.
The deadbeat had not paid her fair share for a few months before moving out.
The girlfriend let this problem fester. The other housemates didn't care because they weren't the ones on the hook for the money.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
The housemates behavior is mostly irrelevant and you will probably never see this money based on your story.
More importantly, do you want to be the kind of person who dogs someones friends and parents over a small amount of money AND let this issue fester in your own life? To quote Disney "let it go..."
More importantly, do you want to be the kind of person who dogs someones friends and parents over a small amount of money AND let this issue fester in your own life? To quote Disney "let it go..."
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
Bingo!Spirit Rider wrote:$416.82 is just not enough to justify filing small claims in a non-resident state with the defendant and possible witnesses also non-residents.
It is a lot of money to you, OP; but in the grand scheme of things, not a lot of money.
A better approach would be to not let the situation get to this point.
There are a lot of reasons why the other person is not paying. For the most part, they have convinced themselves that they did not need the services to begin with. The other reason is that they think they are poor, and thus, do not need to pay.
My advice to you: never be in a situation where someone owes you money. You are not a bank, credit union, loan shark, or the corner pay day lender, and your ability to collect is very limited.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
I say, your best bet is Judge Judy.
Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
The better approach - to not let the situation get to this point - is hindsight. And does not help in this situation.TradingPlaces wrote:Bingo!Spirit Rider wrote:$416.82 is just not enough to justify filing small claims in a non-resident state with the defendant and possible witnesses also non-residents.
It is a lot of money to you, OP; but in the grand scheme of things, not a lot of money.
A better approach would be to not let the situation get to this point.
There are a lot of reasons why the other person is not paying. For the most part, they have convinced themselves that they did not need the services to begin with. The other reason is that they think they are poor, and thus, do not need to pay.
My advice to you: never be in a situation where someone owes you money. You are not a bank, credit union, loan shark, or the corner pay day lender, and your ability to collect is very limited.
I am not necessarily convinced the deadbeat is using the rationale you outlined. This deadbeat has done this before.
She knows full well what she is doing.
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Re: Former Housemate Owes Money - What to do?
It's easy to say that you shouldn't loan people money, but realistically it's almost impossible to avoid if you are living with roommates. I don't see what else the op's girlfriend could have done to avoid this situation.TradingPlaces wrote:Bingo!Spirit Rider wrote:$416.82 is just not enough to justify filing small claims in a non-resident state with the defendant and possible witnesses also non-residents.
It is a lot of money to you, OP; but in the grand scheme of things, not a lot of money.
A better approach would be to not let the situation get to this point.
There are a lot of reasons why the other person is not paying. For the most part, they have convinced themselves that they did not need the services to begin with. The other reason is that they think they are poor, and thus, do not need to pay.
My advice to you: never be in a situation where someone owes you money. You are not a bank, credit union, loan shark, or the corner pay day lender, and your ability to collect is very limited.