When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
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When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
As the title suggests, at what point in the relationship is it a good idea to share financial details with a girlfriend/future wife? (We've seriously talked about marriage, no engagement yet though).
We are 32 & 33, we've been together for over a year, we are on the same page as far as LBYM, investing, no debt, early retirement, but we've never shared actual figures; I believe my NW is about 3 times higher than hers, mostly because even though we make about the same now, I made/invested a lot more for a few years after college.
Not that it would be a deal breaker, but some days I think I'd be nice to know where we stand as a couple, others, I'm not so sure as I'm not sure how we would feel about having so much (doubt it) or so little. I don't know, perhaps if we have "enough" we could relax a bit, if not, then we could super charge our savings/investing rate? (Although I'm at 50/70% depending on the month).
Thoughts?
Edited to fix typos, posting from my cell.
We are 32 & 33, we've been together for over a year, we are on the same page as far as LBYM, investing, no debt, early retirement, but we've never shared actual figures; I believe my NW is about 3 times higher than hers, mostly because even though we make about the same now, I made/invested a lot more for a few years after college.
Not that it would be a deal breaker, but some days I think I'd be nice to know where we stand as a couple, others, I'm not so sure as I'm not sure how we would feel about having so much (doubt it) or so little. I don't know, perhaps if we have "enough" we could relax a bit, if not, then we could super charge our savings/investing rate? (Although I'm at 50/70% depending on the month).
Thoughts?
Edited to fix typos, posting from my cell.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
after you sign prenup
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Financial things I'd want both of us to know before marriage:
I suppose that finding the right common ground in talking about finances pre-marriage might be a good way to figure out how financially compatible you can be.
- How compatible are our ideas on saving, spending, and investing?
- Does either of us have lots of debt (from school, mortgage, child support, judgment, credit card problems, etc.)?
- How comfortable and reliable is our income/assets, in a very general sense (food stamps, precarious, viable middle class, upper class)?
- What financial means do we want/expect? (This can be a tricky one, such as if one or both of the people grew up in a wealthy family, and might have latent expectations/wants that their marriage's combined income doesn't satisfy. Sometimes the parents cover the gap, such as by buying that Brooklyn condo for the daughter/son, but even that help that gives the person the comfort/lifestyle they want can be a source of stress on a partnership.)
I suppose that finding the right common ground in talking about finances pre-marriage might be a good way to figure out how financially compatible you can be.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Perfect Answer!rakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
Haha, I would say that by the time you are discussing marriage, it had better be safe to share your financial details or you made a terrible mistake letting it get this far. The question is, what are you risking by discussing the details of your finances? Depending on what state you live in, it is probably somewhere around 50% of your net worth, more if you eventually have kids. This is the same amount you are risking by getting married at all, so discussion shouldn't frighten you in my opinion.
Truth is, she probably already has some idea what you are worth, and has used that in making the decision about how serious she is about the relationship. It is just intelligent investing on her part!
Personally I am a bit of a romantic, so money is nothing compare to love. However its easy for me to say that as marrying my wife only increased my net worth. She is a far more intense saver than am I. But if your net worth is significant, and you have plans to retire early, it may not be a bad idea to discuss premarital documents in order to preserve your dreams.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Why would it not be safe? You say you have the same financial goals - "LBYM, investing, no debt, early retirement" - and all that's unknown is your respective net worth. If having this information will change the relationship (e.g., different expectations, balance of power), it's better to find out sooner rather than later.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
It's hard to think rationally about this. I guess the thing you need to think through is what do you mean by "safe" and what exactly are the risks?
This will sound like a joke, and it 99% is, but one extreme scenario is that one member of the couple is a gold-digger and the affection is pretense, and if given detailed information about the others' finances will proceed to commit identity theft, steal all the money, and vanish.
To make it less of a joke, is there any sense in which you are making yourself seriously financially vulnerable to betrayal and financial theft simply by telling your intended exact numbers? It seems to me that the answer is "no."
Similarly, mostly-joking: if your intended is marrying you for your money and were to discover that you had far less money than thought, it might lead to a breakup.
Not every couple is the same. There certainly are stable, long-term, loving relationships of the traditional/antiquated kind in which the... ok, typically the husband... in which the husband never does share financial details with the wife. I happen to think that's a really bad idea but it's none of my business and it works for some people.
It sounds from your posting as if it's a topic you want to explore with your intended. If so, I think you should broach the topic gingerly and see if it's a topic she wants to explore with you. Because (proverbially anyway) arguments about money are one of the commonest reasons or predictors of divorce it's probably something that should be explored early. However, notice that the article I linked to says "It may be that fights about money are actually fights about deeper issues in the relationship -- power, trust, etc." so the topic could be a minefield. The fact that you're posting suggests some uncertainty on your part, so be careful--and kind.
This will sound like a joke, and it 99% is, but one extreme scenario is that one member of the couple is a gold-digger and the affection is pretense, and if given detailed information about the others' finances will proceed to commit identity theft, steal all the money, and vanish.
To make it less of a joke, is there any sense in which you are making yourself seriously financially vulnerable to betrayal and financial theft simply by telling your intended exact numbers? It seems to me that the answer is "no."
Similarly, mostly-joking: if your intended is marrying you for your money and were to discover that you had far less money than thought, it might lead to a breakup.
Not every couple is the same. There certainly are stable, long-term, loving relationships of the traditional/antiquated kind in which the... ok, typically the husband... in which the husband never does share financial details with the wife. I happen to think that's a really bad idea but it's none of my business and it works for some people.
It sounds from your posting as if it's a topic you want to explore with your intended. If so, I think you should broach the topic gingerly and see if it's a topic she wants to explore with you. Because (proverbially anyway) arguments about money are one of the commonest reasons or predictors of divorce it's probably something that should be explored early. However, notice that the article I linked to says "It may be that fights about money are actually fights about deeper issues in the relationship -- power, trust, etc." so the topic could be a minefield. The fact that you're posting suggests some uncertainty on your part, so be careful--and kind.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
When you are considering shared financial responsibility. Splitting expenses, saving for a house, etc. And when you share, don't hide things. No secret bank accounts or credit cards or loans.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I would be most interested in sharing debt and income and a general idea of savings/investment e.g. low 6 figures. I'd wait till marriage for details.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Legally I think you need to do it before you sign the prenup or you run the risk of the prenup being invalidatedrakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
Personally I would skip the networth and just talk about a budget. If that works out, then the savings and the rest take care of them selves. Then you can talk about future things (one of you staying home for 2-3 years with the kids, what type of home do you want, ...) and so on.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
We didn't share financial details until after marriage. But the number figure was close to what I guessed.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Finances are the most common reason for marital disagreements. You can interpret that as a reason for concern or simply as the prime reason for disagreements that will occur in all marriages. Those disagreements can occur due to vastly different philosophies toward money, but they can also occur due to one party, often the male or the higher earner, being overly focused on financial control.
Basically, if your concepts are the same regarding finances and you are in a relationship moving toward marriage, affirm that your primary philosophies are compatible, as you seem to have already done, and move forward with disclosure knowing that there will be disagreement at numerous times over the details in spite of general consensus. This is no different than other issues such as child rearing, vocational versus leisure time use, religion/spirituality, sex, views regarding household responsibilities, etc. You might start by answering the question of the degree to which financial issues are important. Unless there are huge amounts of money involved and a great disparity in future prospects vocationally or in probable inheritance, a prenuptial agreement can be a way to state that the person initiating it is overly focused on financial control and may have broader issues of trust. It may make sense, however, to keep major property holdings such as one person already owning a house in that person's name for a year before considering joint titling.
Tim
Basically, if your concepts are the same regarding finances and you are in a relationship moving toward marriage, affirm that your primary philosophies are compatible, as you seem to have already done, and move forward with disclosure knowing that there will be disagreement at numerous times over the details in spite of general consensus. This is no different than other issues such as child rearing, vocational versus leisure time use, religion/spirituality, sex, views regarding household responsibilities, etc. You might start by answering the question of the degree to which financial issues are important. Unless there are huge amounts of money involved and a great disparity in future prospects vocationally or in probable inheritance, a prenuptial agreement can be a way to state that the person initiating it is overly focused on financial control and may have broader issues of trust. It may make sense, however, to keep major property holdings such as one person already owning a house in that person's name for a year before considering joint titling.
Tim
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
We each know an approximation of each other's net worth, debt, income, etc. but not much about specific accounts, exact amounts, etc. Unless she's been snooping behind my back. It has taken me a long time to find someone who is financially compatible...I think letting her know some specifics helps test this. For example, if shortly after a major disclosure about my finances, she starts talking about upgrading her Chevy to a new Mercedes, well that would be a red flag.
We are not engaged, but have agreed that if we proceed, a pre-nup would be put in place.
We are not engaged, but have agreed that if we proceed, a pre-nup would be put in place.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I'm a bit surprised with the replies so far. Perhaps we were far too trusting, but we knew everything about the other's finances from the very beginning of our relationship. (Of course, we were in our early 20s and not from wealthy families, so there were no surprising revelations.) I do recall a particular conversation in the bank many many years ago, before we were married, when the bank teller asked whether it was OK to speak about my account in front of my partner. I didn't quite understand why it wouldn't be OK, but evidently, we're far outside the norm.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I'd have to agree with you. I have always been open with my wife about our finances since we were dating. However, we have known each other since high school and started dating in college. For that reason, we knew all about each other's employment history and compensation associated with those jobs. To be honest, once we were engaged, she let me handle all of her retirement accounts and such because I felt more comfortable creating a plan for us and read more about finances than she did (or ever had an interest in doing).bcjb wrote:I'm a bit surprised with the replies so far. Perhaps we were far too trusting, but we knew everything about the other's finances from the very beginning of our relationship. (Of course, we were in our early 20s and not from wealthy families, so there were no surprising revelations.) I do recall a particular conversation in the bank many many years ago, before we were married, when the bank teller asked whether it was OK to speak about my account in front of my partner. I didn't quite understand why it wouldn't be OK, but evidently, we're far outside the norm.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
It sounds like you know all you need to know about each other's finances, but want to exchange minute details about specific and exact amounts. This doesn't sound very healthy to me. My answer would be "Why do you need to know?"Cherokee8215 wrote:We each know an approximation of each other's net worth, debt, income, etc. but not much about specific accounts, exact amounts, etc. Unless she's been snooping behind my back. It has taken me a long time to find someone who is financially compatible...I think letting her know some specifics helps test this. For example, if shortly after a major disclosure about my finances, she starts talking about upgrading her Chevy to a new Mercedes, well that would be a red flag.
We are not engaged, but have agreed that if we proceed, a pre-nup would be put in place.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
We actually don't want to/don't care about exchanging those details...approximations are fine. Neither of us asks the other.BL wrote:Cherokee8215 wrote:We each know an approximation of each other's net worth, debt, income, etc. but not much about specific accounts, exact amounts, etc. quote]
It sounds like you know all you need to know about each other's finances, but want to exchange minute details about specific and exact amounts. This doesn't sound very healthy to me. My answer would be "Why do you need to know?"
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Right now, I believe we are on the same pagefidobogo wrote: [*] How compatible are our ideas on saving, spending, and investing?
Thankfully, no.fidobogo wrote: [*] Does either of us have lots of debt (from school, mortgage, child support, judgment, credit card problems, etc.)?
It is comfortable and reliable right now, but we both agree that things can change later on, if we have kids, etc.fidobogo wrote: [*] How comfortable and reliable is our income/assets, in a very general sense (food stamps, precarious, viable middle class, upper class)?
We've talked about it, and based on the above, we understand that things can change, we may have to "tighten our belts at some point.fidobogo wrote: [*] What financial means do we want/expect?
rothiranet wrote:what are you risking by discussing the details of your finances?
I think "appropriate" would have been a better word, I don't really think I'm risking anything, she has worked very hard all her adult life, even harder than me, at times, I would say.bcjb wrote:Why would it not be safe?
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
It's easy to marry early in life when you both have little money to your name and therefore little to risk. For most middle-to-upper middle class kids who go through the traditional high school, then 4-5 years of college, then start working route -- the end date for this phase in life IMO is around age 28 +/- a year or two. After that point, certainly when you're in you mid-30's and 40's, you need to choose wisely -- much more on the line!
I think it's fine for you guys to talk about & understand each others debt, retirement planning & investing, general personal finance philosophy, etc. to make sure you 2 are financially compatible. However, I would not include net worth, balances of savings & investment accounts, etc. What good is going to come out of that? I think that has more odds of doing damage than good at this point in your relationship. I wouldn't sweat that you may currently have 3x her net worth -- at your current age vs. retirement age, that delta is probably minuscule. As long as she's not a credit abuser and not hugely in debt for stupid things, I would be happy to move things forward.
As for marriage itself, IMO, you're at that age where you either need to get things moving along quickly... or have made a decision to likely never get married - both are OK. The pressure comes in that that each year you grow older, your finances become stronger and therefore harder to commit to putting 50% of it on the line, in hopes that she works out as your life long partner. Your risk grows as each year passes. Also, if you want to have kids, then there's that add pressure to the timeline too. OTOH, if kids are out of the picture, then do you really ever need to get married - or will that stance eventually push her away? All things to consider. A prenup is an option, but not a silver bullet & good luck with having that conversation.
I think it's fine for you guys to talk about & understand each others debt, retirement planning & investing, general personal finance philosophy, etc. to make sure you 2 are financially compatible. However, I would not include net worth, balances of savings & investment accounts, etc. What good is going to come out of that? I think that has more odds of doing damage than good at this point in your relationship. I wouldn't sweat that you may currently have 3x her net worth -- at your current age vs. retirement age, that delta is probably minuscule. As long as she's not a credit abuser and not hugely in debt for stupid things, I would be happy to move things forward.
As for marriage itself, IMO, you're at that age where you either need to get things moving along quickly... or have made a decision to likely never get married - both are OK. The pressure comes in that that each year you grow older, your finances become stronger and therefore harder to commit to putting 50% of it on the line, in hopes that she works out as your life long partner. Your risk grows as each year passes. Also, if you want to have kids, then there's that add pressure to the timeline too. OTOH, if kids are out of the picture, then do you really ever need to get married - or will that stance eventually push her away? All things to consider. A prenup is an option, but not a silver bullet & good luck with having that conversation.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
The details really don't matter all that much. Unless you have an unusual situation or an inheritance then what you have accumulated so far will be dwarfed by what you will save together over the next 30+ years if you retire at the typical age of 65. The important thing is that that there aren't any big surprises like student loans or other debt. At your age a lot of people have have a negative net worth and it sounds like both of you have a positive net worth even if it is not equal.We are 32 & 33, we've been together for over a year, we are on the same page as far as LBYM, investing, no debt, early retirement, but we've never shared actual figures; I believe my NW is about 3 times higher than hers, mostly because even though we make about the same now, I made/invested a lot more for a few years after college.
It would be good to talk over your concerns with her to come mutual agreement together about how you want to handle sharing financial information. You might want to combine this with talking about if you want to eventually buy a house, travel a lot, retire early, and how you would budget for that.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Maybe some pre-marital counseling? I would suggest this not only for this issue but for other things needing discussion. My best guess is that your girlfriend has a pretty good idea anyway. Now that your relationship is pretty serious and proceeding unto engagement, I would go ahead and start talking about financial issues.
A fool and his money are good for business.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
What is your basis for this statement? I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, but, had never heard it before.randomguy wrote:Legally I think you need to do it before you sign the prenup or you run the risk of the prenup being invalidatedrakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
Bob
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
My own understanding is that if there is not a full and correct disclosure of all assets and liabilities at the time when the prenup is signed, one party could claim they were misled and have the court invalidate the prenup.CABob wrote:What is your basis for this statement? I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, but, had never heard it before.randomguy wrote:Legally I think you need to do it before you sign the prenup or you run the risk of the prenup being invalidatedrakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
I. e., you disclose pre-marital assets such as your Vanguard account, e-fund, and 401k account in writing, but forget about $300k you had in long term CD's and your 1957 Chevy Bel Air convertible in storage, and the prenup was written such that you retain all pre marital assets. Your soon to be ex-spouse can claim that the prenup is invalid since you did not disclose the CD's and car.
(I'm not a lawyer but have read probably thousands of court opinions dealing with divorce - get professional advice if going down this road.)
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
My wife and I knew we were of the same financial mindset while we dated. Once I proposed, we basically opened up the books to one another. We paid for our wedding and honeymoon ourselves as well as buying my wife's car outright (her lease ended and it made sense). We also knew we wanted to buy a house the following year.
By opening things up, it gave us a crystal clear picture of what we were working with. We increased savings accordingly and are doing well now. It is nice to be on the same page.
*we're also the type that comingles bank accounts and shares passwords for retirement accts, etc. Not everyone likes doing it this way
By opening things up, it gave us a crystal clear picture of what we were working with. We increased savings accordingly and are doing well now. It is nice to be on the same page.
*we're also the type that comingles bank accounts and shares passwords for retirement accts, etc. Not everyone likes doing it this way
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Based on the part I underlined, I'd say you've shared enough details to be good to go. Being on the same page is much more important than how much each person has going into the marriage. IMO anyways. If she had a bunch of debt already, lived check to check, or used credit to the max., that would be something to worry about.1tolivesimply wrote:As the title suggests, at what point in the relationship is it a good idea to share financial details with a girlfriend/future wife? (We've seriously talked about marriage, no engagement yet though).
We are 32 & 33, we've been together for over a year, we are on the same page as far as LBYM, investing, no debt, early retirement, but we've never shared actual figures; I believe my NW is about 3 times higher than hers, mostly because even though we make about the same now, I made/invested a lot more for a few years after college.
Not that it would be a deal breaker, but some days I think I'd be nice to know where we stand as a couple, others, I'm not so sure as I'm not sure how we would feel about having so much (doubt it) or so little. I don't know, perhaps if we have "enough" we could relax a bit, if not, then we could super charge our savings/investing rate? (Although I'm at 50/70% depending on the month).
Thoughts?
Edited to fix typos, posting from my cell.
Then I would say it depends as far as prenups go. Are we talking 3 times hers like you have $30k and she has $10k, or you have $900k and she has $300k? Simply example numbers there, but just to make the point. If close to the first example, a prenup is probably not needed. If close to the second, it may be something to think about.
Really, what does it matter? Are you going to stop saving for a bit and make her ramp up the savings until things are equal and then you can get married?
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
My immediate thought is that this (underlining) is what is really bothering you. On some level, not sure exactly. You say you both share common goals of saving, LBYM, funding early retirements, etc. So, why the concern of net worth amounts?1tolivesimply wrote:........ we've never shared actual figures; I believe my NW is about 3 times higher than hers, mostly because even though we make about the same now, I made/invested a lot more for a few years after college.....
Thoughts?
Perhaps you fear you are not marrying an "equal" ? Secretly wonder (or blame) that she should have invested more? If it turned out you were wrong, her net worth much less than you thought, would that cause you to re-consider her as potential wife?
As others have mentioned, just what is the suspected gap here? $60K versus $20K? Or $1.5 mil versus a half-mil?
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I think transparency and expectations regarding finances-saving, investing, spending-are important issues to discuss before marriage. Too many marriages fail due to differences in attitude regarding financial issues.
When my first husband and I married, we were in our very early 20's, he was still in college. We never had any discussions regarding finances. Although we both grew up with families who lived below their means, and invested conservatively, it turns out he and I were polar opposites! After we were married, I found out that he figured as long as there were checks in the checkbook, there was money in the account!
Second husband and I are on the same page. What a difference!
When my first husband and I married, we were in our very early 20's, he was still in college. We never had any discussions regarding finances. Although we both grew up with families who lived below their means, and invested conservatively, it turns out he and I were polar opposites! After we were married, I found out that he figured as long as there were checks in the checkbook, there was money in the account!
Second husband and I are on the same page. What a difference!
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
It is safe when you do not need to ask "Is it safe?".When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzw1_2b-I7A
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Now is a good time to begin more detailed discussions about your current and future financial lives, between the serious discussions about marriage and the actual engagement.
I disagree that details don't matter; eventually there should be a full accounting from each of you at the account balance level, including ALL outstanding debts and significant assets. Applying actual numbers to outstanding responsibilities and future dreams and plans helps to minimize misconceptions and tethers sentiment to reality. It's also an exercise in trust, an opportunity to understand the financial aspect of "us" and "ours", and should be experienced before you are contractually bound to one another.
Best wishes,
o
I disagree that details don't matter; eventually there should be a full accounting from each of you at the account balance level, including ALL outstanding debts and significant assets. Applying actual numbers to outstanding responsibilities and future dreams and plans helps to minimize misconceptions and tethers sentiment to reality. It's also an exercise in trust, an opportunity to understand the financial aspect of "us" and "ours", and should be experienced before you are contractually bound to one another.
Best wishes,
o
-- Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. --
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Sharing the passwords is a bad idea.TxAg wrote: *we're also the type that comingles bank accounts and shares passwords for retirement accts, etc. Not everyone likes doing it this way
If there is ever a problem where you account gets compromised and drained that could cause problems since it is likely against the terms that you agreed to when you clicked the "I agree" button.
You can likely link your accounts so that they will show on consolidated statements or you can each have your own signons for your joint accounts.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Legally it is "safe" after a court of competent jurisdiction enters a final divorce decree that cannot be appealed or amended in any jurisdiction.
Not sure I'd want to marry a girl that I could not trust with the most intimate details in life, financial or otherwise.
Not sure I'd want to marry a girl that I could not trust with the most intimate details in life, financial or otherwise.
Last edited by kenner on Mon May 25, 2015 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Thanks. I'll look into Fidelity linking them together. For now, I take care of it all. My wife knows the password but never logs on.Watty wrote:Sharing the passwords is a bad idea.TxAg wrote: *we're also the type that comingles bank accounts and shares passwords for retirement accts, etc. Not everyone likes doing it this way
If there is ever a problem where you account gets compromised and drained that could cause problems since it is likely against the terms that you agreed to when you clicked the "I agree" button.
You can likely link your accounts so that they will show on consolidated statements or you can each have your own signons for your joint accounts.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
IMO, the higher income and higher retirement funded person will have to help catch up lesser spouse to the higher spouse.
My wifey has kept me from knowing everything that she has set aside for the care of her family. This is OK for me since it is her family's money.
I have investment control of her retirement funds (she doesn't want to deal with annuities, pension, SS, trade accounts). I rather not have so much control but she doesn't want to know.
She had more assets than me 40 years ago,
There are sexiest issues that will never get resolved. Just the way it is. Its the hardwired CaveMan-CaveWomen mentality.
When you can poop in the presence of each other, you will be mostly one.
GL
My wifey has kept me from knowing everything that she has set aside for the care of her family. This is OK for me since it is her family's money.
I have investment control of her retirement funds (she doesn't want to deal with annuities, pension, SS, trade accounts). I rather not have so much control but she doesn't want to know.
She had more assets than me 40 years ago,
There are sexiest issues that will never get resolved. Just the way it is. Its the hardwired CaveMan-CaveWomen mentality.
When you can poop in the presence of each other, you will be mostly one.
GL
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Classy comment.itstoomuch wrote:
When you can poop in the presence of each other, you will be mostly one.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I know,
Some of my comments just skink.
Some of my comments just skink.
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo
- Crimsontide
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I hate these kinds of threads. Marriage is supposed to be love, honor and obey. They reduce the whole idea down to a business decision... How many of these have we had where the dude is saying he has 3x NW of the gal, or some such nonsense that tries to show what he stands to loose in the event of divorce. It's all so depressing. Of course when DW and I got hitched we were both very young and broke, but without debt since they didn't hand out CCs like candy and college was half way affordable. Now 30 years later we are not so young, far from broke but thankfully still debt free. <end of rant>
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Here's what I did when contemplating marriage. I got a copy of Nolo Press DIY Prenuptial Agreement.
We used the workbook to discuss all our financial issues. Each chapter included topics we'd touched on, but with tips on how to approach certain items. It was time to get down to details and under no circumstance was I going into a marriage without a prenup. We allowed several months to go though the process, and needed it. Some items required some thought and time to be certain that was our desire -- there are children from a previous marriage, or more precisely, ex-wives who are litigious.
By the time we finished, we were both comfortable that we knew each other's status and desires. And to make it worthwhile, we had a draft prenup. In our case we didn't seek legal counsel, but others would want to do that in addition. Then we signed the document with witnesses and a notary.
Noel Press is having a sale this weekend. 40% off until tomorrow.
We used the workbook to discuss all our financial issues. Each chapter included topics we'd touched on, but with tips on how to approach certain items. It was time to get down to details and under no circumstance was I going into a marriage without a prenup. We allowed several months to go though the process, and needed it. Some items required some thought and time to be certain that was our desire -- there are children from a previous marriage, or more precisely, ex-wives who are litigious.
By the time we finished, we were both comfortable that we knew each other's status and desires. And to make it worthwhile, we had a draft prenup. In our case we didn't seek legal counsel, but others would want to do that in addition. Then we signed the document with witnesses and a notary.
Noel Press is having a sale this weekend. 40% off until tomorrow.
The mightiest Oak is just a nut who stayed the course.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I am with Crimson Tide. My wife and I both had jobs, were several years out of college, both had no debt and only little savings, but paid-off cars. Both of our parents had long-term marriages, so divorce was never on our mind, we never heard of a pre-nup. We are still married after 44 years.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Uh, I don't think it's supposed to be about "obey" anymore. Using that word in this context in 2015 could get you shot.Crimsontide wrote:Marriage is supposed to be love, honor and obey.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
First reply nailed it.rakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
To CABob's comment, putting all our financial cards on the table was part of the pre-nup process.
- Crimsontide
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Sarcasm just isn't your bag is it?FedGuy wrote:Uh, I don't think it's supposed to be about "obey" anymore. Using that word in this context in 2015 could get you shot.Crimsontide wrote:Marriage is supposed to be love, honor and obey.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Crimsontide wrote:I hate these kinds of threads. Marriage is supposed to be love, honor and obey. They reduce the whole idea down to a business decision...
Yes, I kinda hate 'em, too. But I can only go for the first two on your list - Love and honor. Obey? C'mon, this isn't 1954, is it. No woman should vow to obey her husband, and no man should say the same for his wife, either.
Business decision? Maybe not quite, but nowadays nearly all new marriages are composed of two partners, two incomes. Both earning a living. Joint and separate finances to be considered.
The days of a "dependent" wife, at least as a recognized legal concept, are pretty much over.
In divorce court judges are going to award child support to the custodial parent but no more alimony or maintenance orders. As long as the former spouse is able-bodied it is assumed she must go out and get a job and support herself. Even if it has been decades since she last worked.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
+1Boglenaut wrote:It is safe when you do not need to ask "Is it safe?".When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Pre-nups are not always legally valid.linenfort wrote:First reply nailed it.rakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
To CABob's comment, putting all our financial cards on the table was part of the pre-nup process.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I suspect it was a joke about disclosure after the pre-nup, but part of a pre-nup negotiation is full disclosure of financial information + independent counsel for each party. If one ever wants to sign a pre-nup, then it is in your interest to make sure that it will be enforceable. Enforceability issues generally revolve around duress, inadequate disclosure and absence of adequate counsel for both parties.
OP, if you approach this from the perspective of opening discussions about how you and your partner will handle lifetime finances, whether you will commingle resources and contribute to joint goals (including large expenses like a home, potential college education for your children), likely need to support parents and, overall, your general approach to finances, etc., then it is a very good way to learn how to navigate these lifelong difficult issues that include a financial dimension.
More important, if you tend to view decisions from a financial standpoint (as may be likely for BHs and because you are worried about disclosure because you have a "net worth" 3x that of your partner), then you will also need to realize that your partner may NOT see such things from the same standpoint and that is more typical of non-BHs.
OP, if you approach this from the perspective of opening discussions about how you and your partner will handle lifetime finances, whether you will commingle resources and contribute to joint goals (including large expenses like a home, potential college education for your children), likely need to support parents and, overall, your general approach to finances, etc., then it is a very good way to learn how to navigate these lifelong difficult issues that include a financial dimension.
More important, if you tend to view decisions from a financial standpoint (as may be likely for BHs and because you are worried about disclosure because you have a "net worth" 3x that of your partner), then you will also need to realize that your partner may NOT see such things from the same standpoint and that is more typical of non-BHs.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
At this point sounds like you know all you need to know about the finances of your GF of one year.1tolivesimply wrote:Right now, I believe we are on the same pagefidobogo wrote: [*] How compatible are our ideas on saving, spending, and investing?
Thankfully, no.fidobogo wrote: [*] Does either of us have lots of debt (from school, mortgage, child support, judgment, credit card problems, etc.)?
It is comfortable and reliable right now, but we both agree that things can change later on, if we have kids, etc.fidobogo wrote: [*] How comfortable and reliable is our income/assets, in a very general sense (food stamps, precarious, viable middle class, upper class)?
We've talked about it, and based on the above, we understand that things can change, we may have to "tighten our belts at some point.fidobogo wrote: [*] What financial means do we want/expect?
rothiranet wrote:what are you risking by discussing the details of your finances?I think "appropriate" would have been a better word, I don't really think I'm risking anything, she has worked very hard all her adult life, even harder than me, at times, I would say.bcjb wrote:Why would it not be safe?
Why isn't that enough?
Would it bother you if your NW is more or less than hers and why?
At some point may need to tighten belts?
Maybe reading too much into that, but can't help but wonder if you think your NW is more because she spends more of her income and you have a problem with that....or would if you were married??
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Quick google gives this list of the most common reasons prenups are declared invalid: http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/top- ... valid.htmlCABob wrote:What is your basis for this statement? I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, but, had never heard it before.randomguy wrote:Legally I think you need to do it before you sign the prenup or you run the risk of the prenup being invalidatedrakaye47 wrote:after you sign prenup
This is number 7. If this is an actual issues, I would check with a lawyer in my state as divorce is one of those areas where state laws can differ significantly.
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Unless you are talking about one of you being quite wealthy, three times her net worth is not an issue, but a prenuptial agreement would be a means of control that is unnecessary. Ultimately, you have to decide what makes you comfortable, not what any poster may do. Discussions of what works for anyone of us is just anecdotal. You might get an idea of what you truly think if you ask yourself how you would feel if your sweetie read this entire thread. It would lead to some discussion, and I suspect a number of posters would recommend it, some would strongly object.
Tim
Tim
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I don't think there's anything wrong with wondering, and listening to what she discloses in conversation, with you determining what you want to share at this point, but at the one-year point of a relationship, it seems premature to expect or ask for specifics. You have many more other things to be learning about each other at this point.
I think it was at the three or four year mark of my relationship when finances became a separate topic for discussion. And, really, by that time we both pretty much already knew.
And, okay, I'll go ahead and say it: your post begs the question, how good is the communication between you two? Because it seems weird to me that you're planning to marry someone you obviously don't know that much about.
I think it was at the three or four year mark of my relationship when finances became a separate topic for discussion. And, really, by that time we both pretty much already knew.
And, okay, I'll go ahead and say it: your post begs the question, how good is the communication between you two? Because it seems weird to me that you're planning to marry someone you obviously don't know that much about.
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Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
I didn't read the entire thread, but I would say to hold off discussing it in detail until you are formally engaged. Sounds like you already know you are reasonably compatible with her financially. And it really shouldn't be about whose is bigger than whose, more of a discussion of how you want to proceed financially as a partnership. Part of that is understanding where you are starting from, but that's a relatively minor part.
Don't do something. Just stand there!
Re: When is it safe to share financial details with gf, future wife
Jez never takes long for threads like this to go off track.