Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

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Amortie
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Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by Amortie »

I am a 29 years old male graduating from medical school this year. Wife owns her own business - income is volatile. We have one child one the way. I have decided to purchase Own Occupation Disability Insurance as I start my residency (Emergency Medicine). My wife's friend, a financial advisor, gave us quotes from several insurance providers. I was wondering if any other docs out there have experience with purchasing disability insurance and any advice on what to buy.

In particular, while the advisor told us all the companies are "True own occupation double dip" with a future option to purchase more coverage, inflation adjustments, etc, and slight variations in other certain aspects of the contract (seem fairly similar to me, I read through most of the proposals), there does seem to be quote a variation in prices as well as reputation of the various companies (Guardian vs MetLife vs MassMutual vs Principal vs Standard...). How did you pick the company you chose?

I am also concerned about the language - as some proposals say "If you have limited your occupation to the performance of the material and substantial duties of a single medical or dental specialty, we will deem that specialty to be your occupation." (Guardian) while others are more vague. For example, MetLife: "we will consider the material and substantial duties you are performing, including those of a professionally recognized specialty (or specialties if more than one) in medicine or dentistry immediately prior to the time you become disabled to be the material and substantial duties of your regular occupation." I am not sure how important the wording is and if it can bite me later.

If you have gone through this process, and particularly if you have any suggestions on red flags to watch out for, please share! Thanks so much.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by JonnyDVM »

My understanding is for the most part the large companies are all pretty reputable. I went with Guardian since I had heard from several different sources that they are regarded as the best and the cost difference was very minimal. My wife went with principal and the cost difference was enormous. Shop around and take the best offer from a reputable company would be my advice. All the ones you mention are fine as far as I know. I can't speak to the specific wording of the own occupation clause.
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dhodson
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by dhodson »

Read the disability articles at whitecoatinvestor.com

I'd be fine personally with any of the own occ companies. Typically fewer words is better but the truth is that you wont be able to find real data to confirm that one own occ is better than another.

The real key is not to allow any of these agents to sucker you into permanent life insurance.
grp2c
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by grp2c »

dhodson wrote:Read the disability articles at whitecoatinvestor.com
definitely some excellent articles on his website.

When researching DI a few years ago I learned there's can be wide variation in DI policies b/w states. In California, I thought guardian and standard were the strongest. Ultimately, I went with standard because I could remove the 2 year mental health limitation and it was slightly cheaper.

I say narrow it down to the 2 strongest and then completely read though their policies.

Definitely get partial disability and future purchase option riders. I was +/- on the COLA rider. I ultimately chose to get it figuring that it is more valuable to have that rider in case I was disabled early on in my career and I can always remove the rider when I get older. In Standard's policy you did not need to add the Own occ rider to get medical sub specialization protection. Within their definition of total disability it said "Your regular occupation is your occupation at the time your disability begins. If you have limited your practice to a professionally recognized specialty in medicine or law, the specialty will be deemed to be your regular occupation." By adding the Own Occ rider it allowed you be considered totally disabled even though working in another occupation but came with a 2 year mental health limitation. Basically the own occ rider allowed you to "double dip". I figured if I was disabled and could not practice anesthesia I would just volunteer in another field or take a low paying job. Then I would still be able to collect DI benefits using the partial disability rider. My benefits would just be proportionally reduced based on my new income compared to my old income. I initially had the non cancelable rider but then later removed it after reading a post WCI's website. Removing this lowered my premium by 30%.
dhodson
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by dhodson »

I think you made the right call about non can personally.
BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

Guardian or MetLife are probably your best options if you're ok with the 24-month mental/nervous benefit limitation. There is a discount provided because of the limitation requirement since it is based on your occupation and not health-related reasons. Standard will give you unlimited mental/nervous benefits, but is often priced a lot higher than the others for comparable benefits. The definitions of disability between the MetLife and Guardian policies are effectively the same and all of the companies you mentioned have very good coverage, though Principal and Mass Mutual do not have the Specialty definition written into the policy.

As a resident you can qualify for $5,000/month of total disability coverage, and I would suggest accepting the maximum, an age-65 or age-67 benefit period, a 90-day elimination period (the 180-day doesn't save that much), the maximum Future Increase Option benefit rider, residual disability rider (Enhanced Residual rider with MetLife - they have several versions), and 3% compound cost of living adjustment rider. The COLA riders are a guaranteed 3% compounded with Guardian, MetLife, and Mass Mutual, while Principal and Standard are based off the annual CPI change up to a max of 3% (or 6% if you choose that option). You can also get $5,000/month of catastrophic disability coverage as a cheap add-on rider...not necessary, but given the low cost most of my clients tend to include it.

By applying for a policy now, you are locking in the approved coverage and it cannot be taken away from you. Any changes in health (even minor ones) can have a substantial impact on your insurability, and if you wait until starting practice to buy disability insurance, the group coverage offered by your employer will limit the amount of coverage you can buy on an individual policy. Individual DI coverage is much, much more comprehensive than a group policy.
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gasdoc
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by gasdoc »

You probable know this, but you should pay for the premiums post-tax, so that you don't have to pay tax on the disbursements if you should need them. You are limited to 60 or 65% (can't remember which) of your earnings, so getting the money tax free would be important.

Have a great day.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by White Coat Investor »

The "best" policy for you is state, specialty, gender, and health specific. However, most emergency docs should give serious consideration to a policy from Principal. Be sure to go to an agent who can sell you a policy from any company.
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Amortie
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by Amortie »

Thanks all. This is very helpful. I do plan to buy the policy and pay for it post-tax, the max benefit of 5000. I am curious why the previous poster considers Principal such a great option for EM and would be interested in understanding more (particularly given that their language on true own occ seems more vague given the previous post). Thanks.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by White Coat Investor »

Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
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BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

EmergDoc wrote:Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
ER doc is a 4M occupation class with Principal and MetLife, 3M/3P with Guardian and Standard. MetLife has a 10% AMA discount. There will be a discount for the mental/nervous limitation which can be stacked with the other discount(s) for the companies that require it. There may be student/resident discounts available depending on what university/hospital system you're affiliated with. I would bet the MetLife policy premiums are in the same ballpark as Principal and Guardian/Standard probably are not that much more expensive. Have to run the rates to find out for sure, but I'll bet they aren't that far apart. IMO Guardian offers the best coverage in the industry and I don't think you'll find many people that disagree...I bought a Guardian policy for myself and paid a little more for it than I could have with the other carriers and I'm not even in a medical occupation, I just like to know that I have the best coverage I can get.

Edit - Just checked out your link, great comparison chart! You may want to include an asterisk for Guardian that 3M surgical occupations and internal medicine/general practice/family practice physicians now get a 10% Preferred occupation discount. Not quite a full occupation class upgrade, but certainly makes a difference.
Last edited by BruDude on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by White Coat Investor »

BruDude wrote:
EmergDoc wrote:Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
ER doc is a 4M occupation class with Principal and MetLife, 3M/3P with Guardian and Standard. MetLife has a 10% AMA discount. There will be a discount for the mental/nervous limitation which can be stacked with the other discount(s) for the companies that require it. There may be student/resident discounts available depending on what university/hospital system you're affiliated with. I would bet the MetLife policy premiums are in the same ballpark as Principal and Guardian/Standard probably are not that much more expensive. Have to run the rates to find out for sure, but I'll bet they aren't that far apart. IMO Guardian offers the best coverage in the industry and I don't think you'll find many people that disagree...I bought a Guardian policy for myself and paid a little more for it than I could have with the other carriers and I'm not even in a medical occupation, I just like to know that I have the best coverage I can get.

Edit - Just checked out your link, great comparison chart!
Run the quotes. Every time I ask someone to do it for me Principal is quite a bit cheaper. I don't have the "best" car, house, life insurance, malpractice insurance, or clothing. Why would I need the "best" disability insurance? I need the one that covers my needs adequately for the cheapest price. You've got to really get into the sticks of disability insurance to figure out a time when Guardian will pay and Principal will not. There are 50 shades of gray of disability and both policies will cover almost all of them.
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DFWinvestor
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by DFWinvestor »

I have a policy with Standard. Price seems reasonable to me and I hope to never have to find out if they are prompt at paying claims:)

As a resident, do you have some sort of coverage through your residency program? Most residency programs offer good benefits. I would check to see what is available through the program before I bought anything. You may have already done this, just throwing it out there if by chance you haven't.
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

EmergDoc wrote:
BruDude wrote:
EmergDoc wrote:Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
ER doc is a 4M occupation class with Principal and MetLife, 3M/3P with Guardian and Standard. MetLife has a 10% AMA discount. There will be a discount for the mental/nervous limitation which can be stacked with the other discount(s) for the companies that require it. There may be student/resident discounts available depending on what university/hospital system you're affiliated with. I would bet the MetLife policy premiums are in the same ballpark as Principal and Guardian/Standard probably are not that much more expensive. Have to run the rates to find out for sure, but I'll bet they aren't that far apart. IMO Guardian offers the best coverage in the industry and I don't think you'll find many people that disagree...I bought a Guardian policy for myself and paid a little more for it than I could have with the other carriers and I'm not even in a medical occupation, I just like to know that I have the best coverage I can get.

Edit - Just checked out your link, great comparison chart!
Run the quotes. Every time I ask someone to do it for me Principal is quite a bit cheaper. I don't have the "best" car, house, life insurance, malpractice insurance, or clothing. Why would I need the "best" disability insurance? I need the one that covers my needs adequately for the cheapest price. You've got to really get into the sticks of disability insurance to figure out a time when Guardian will pay and Principal will not. There are 50 shades of gray of disability and both policies will cover almost all of them.
I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see how the rates look for comparable coverage if I have time. DI is a little more complex than some of the other insurance products as you know and I'm sure you are aware of the differences in each policy by now. I probably have higher limits than I need on auto and home insurance, but I'd rather have it than not have it. Guardian has some "bells and whistles" that the other carriers don't, and for an extra couple hundred bucks a year I wanted to include them. If Guardian is double the price of one of the others then no, it's probably not the best value, but it is still the best coverage and I don't think anyone who goes through the benefits line-by-line will argue that. If a Guardian policy was $2000 and Principal was $1800, I'd buy Guardian. Some people would rather save the money and I don't blame them, that's why I offer all of the options instead of being captive to one company. Everyone has their own budget and risk tolerance.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by JonnyDVM »

EmergDoc wrote:Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
My wife is an ER physician. The Principal quote for the same coverage was literally hundreds of dollars less a month then the competitors.
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BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

JonnyDVM wrote:
EmergDoc wrote:Principal puts emergency docs in a less expensive occupational class than some of their competitors. So you get a similar policy for less money. If I were buying another policy today, it would be a Principal one.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability ... l-classes/
My wife is an ER physician. The Principal quote for the same coverage was literally hundreds of dollars less a month then the competitors.
If she bought the policy through a residency program and/or with unisex rates it would make a huge difference in premiums. Combining the unisex rates + multi-life discount with Principal can save 30-50% versus the regular pricing. The discount isn't as much for males.
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by White Coat Investor »

BruDude wrote: If a Guardian policy was $2000 and Principal was $1800, I'd buy Guardian. Some people would rather save the money and I don't blame them, that's why I offer all of the options instead of being captive to one company. Everyone has their own budget and risk tolerance.
But if the Guardian policy were $2K a year and the Principal one were $1200.....then, assuming you weren't buying as large of a policy as you could, your choices are $2K a year for perhaps $5000 a month of coverage with Guardian or $2K a year for perhaps $7500 a month of coverage with Principal. Now the question is with would you rather have "bells and whistles" or more coverage for that same $2K. I can tell you which one I'd rather have.

I get that insurance guys like insurance, especially since they see all the bad things that happen to people. It's the same reason the children of neurosurgeons are always wearing helmets. But you've got to be rational about this stuff just like with everything else you buy.
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BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

EmergDoc wrote:
BruDude wrote: If a Guardian policy was $2000 and Principal was $1800, I'd buy Guardian. Some people would rather save the money and I don't blame them, that's why I offer all of the options instead of being captive to one company. Everyone has their own budget and risk tolerance.
But if the Guardian policy were $2K a year and the Principal one were $1200.....then, assuming you weren't buying as large of a policy as you could, your choices are $2K a year for perhaps $5000 a month of coverage with Guardian or $2K a year for perhaps $7500 a month of coverage with Principal. Now the question is with would you rather have "bells and whistles" or more coverage for that same $2K. I can tell you which one I'd rather have.

I get that insurance guys like insurance, especially since they see all the bad things that happen to people. It's the same reason the children of neurosurgeons are always wearing helmets. But you've got to be rational about this stuff just like with everything else you buy.
If there was a 40% difference in price I would take the cheaper policy. I have nothing against Principal, I've sold plenty of their policies and they're a very good company. I'm only saying that if the prices are similar and I was a specialty physician, I would opt for MetLife's Income Guard, Standard's Protector Platinum, or Guardian's Provider Plus over the Principal policy. Quoting the Provider Plus Limited product with Guardian would also result in a price much more competitive and comparable to the benefits of Principal while still having the Specialty definition included.
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Amortie
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by Amortie »

The quote from Principal was about $100 cheaper per month than MetLife (which is what I am leaning toward right now). Guardian is $40 more expensive per month than Metlife for me. However, I cannot seem to find a meaningful difference between the MetLife and Guardian policies. The problem I have with Principal is you can only exercise the Future Purchase Option every three years. As far as I understand, while Principal is True Own coverage, there is actually no specialty-specific language in the contract. It also seems intuitively concerning that it is so much cheaper.
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by White Coat Investor »

Rates might be different for a resident vs an attending emergency doc too.

I wouldn't spend much time worrying about the specialty-specific issue there.

Have your independent agent pull up both policies side by side and explain to you the differences. You're paying him a fat commission for that work. Take advantage of his knowledge. Then make an informed decision. If you think Metlife is the best combination of price and benefits, then buy that. It's certainly one of the "Big 6" companies.
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BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

Interesting results, about what I expected. Assuming a 30 year old male ER doc at regular rates, making the comparison as apples-to-apples as possible:

-Age-67 benefit period
-90-day elimination period
-Guaranteed renewable/non-cancellable
-$5k/month Total Disability benefit
-$5k/month Catastrophic
-Maximum Future Increase Option
-3% compound Cost of Living Adjustment rider (Principal and Standard are 0-3% depending on annual CPI change, Guardian and MetLife are fixed 3% compound)
-Residual disability rider (Enhanced version with MetLife)
-Regular Occupation (i.e. True Own-Occ) rider with Principal
-Non-cancellable rider with Standard

Annual premiums including mental/nervous limitation discounts and the AMA discount for MetLife, does not include possible student/resident discounts:

Principal
$2,165

MetLife
$2,263

Standard
$2,973

Guardian
Provider Plus - $3,109
Provider Plus Limited - $2,470


At those rates I think MetLife would be the best option. I didn't run the rates for females but I"m sure that would change things a bit.
summer89
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by summer89 »

BruDude wrote:
If there was a 40% difference in price I would take the cheaper policy. I have nothing against Principal, I've sold plenty of their policies and they're a very good company. I'm only saying that if the prices are similar and I was a specialty physician, I would opt for MetLife's Income Guard, Standard's Protector Platinum, or Guardian's Provider Plus over the Principal policy. Quoting the Provider Plus Limited product with Guardian would also result in a price much more competitive and comparable to the benefits of Principal while still having the Specialty definition included.
I have a question about this, but I first wanted to say that I appreciate everyone's discussion in this thread and other threads about disability insurance, and I have found it valuable in deciding what to get for myself.

With respect to Principal not having a specialty definition, I was wondering about the following hypothetical situation:

A physician completed a residency in a primary care specialty and therefore has received the education and training necessary to practice in the primary care field. That physician then goes into a subspecialty field, and subsequently is working only in the subspecialty field (no primary care job duties). Then, the physician has an illness/injury and cannot work in that subspecialty and, after the elimination period, collects disability benefits. If that physician has the Regular Occupation rider of the Principal policy and decides to work in the primary care field, or perhaps goes to work at a medical school teaching classes, or works as a medical director at an insurance company, or some other job, will Principal reduce its disability benefit proportionate to the new income?

I am trying to figure out if there are any loopholes in the Regular Occupation rider that make it a less desirable option to purchase.

Thanks!
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

summer89 wrote:
BruDude wrote:
If there was a 40% difference in price I would take the cheaper policy. I have nothing against Principal, I've sold plenty of their policies and they're a very good company. I'm only saying that if the prices are similar and I was a specialty physician, I would opt for MetLife's Income Guard, Standard's Protector Platinum, or Guardian's Provider Plus over the Principal policy. Quoting the Provider Plus Limited product with Guardian would also result in a price much more competitive and comparable to the benefits of Principal while still having the Specialty definition included.
I have a question about this, but I first wanted to say that I appreciate everyone's discussion in this thread and other threads about disability insurance, and I have found it valuable in deciding what to get for myself.

With respect to Principal not having a specialty definition, I was wondering about the following hypothetical situation:

A physician completed a residency in a primary care specialty and therefore has received the education and training necessary to practice in the primary care field. That physician then goes into a subspecialty field, and subsequently is working only in the subspecialty field (no primary care job duties). Then, the physician has an illness/injury and cannot work in that subspecialty and, after the elimination period, collects disability benefits. If that physician has the Regular Occupation rider of the Principal policy and decides to work in the primary care field, or perhaps goes to work at a medical school teaching classes, or works as a medical director at an insurance company, or some other job, will Principal reduce its disability benefit proportionate to the new income?

I am trying to figure out if there are any loopholes in the Regular Occupation rider that make it a less desirable option to purchase.

Thanks!
Impossible to say what would be covered if they go back into primary care as DI claims have so many variables and gray area. You won't find a claims examiner for an insurance company anywhere that would give you an answer to that one until the time of claim when they can examine the supporting documentation. Teaching med school or working at an insurance company would be considered a different occupation altogether so that should be paid in full if the insured isn't working as a physician.

Someone may tell you that Principal would pay the total disability benefit in that scenario of a specialty doc going back to primary care, but it can't be guaranteed. I see agents selling Principal all the time say "well at the time of claim, it probably won't make a difference anyway".....so if that's the case, why doesn't Principal just include the Specialty definition in the policy and be done with it? That would make them much more competitive with the other companies that do offer it - a lot of the physician clients I've worked with immediately eliminated Principal due to no Specialty definition and I don't blame them.
SteelCityMD
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by SteelCityMD »

BruDude wrote:Interesting results, about what I expected. Assuming a 30 year old male ER doc at regular rates, making the comparison as apples-to-apples as possible:

-Age-67 benefit period
-90-day elimination period
-Guaranteed renewable/non-cancellable
-$5k/month Total Disability benefit
-$5k/month Catastrophic
-Maximum Future Increase Option
-3% compound Cost of Living Adjustment rider (Principal and Standard are 0-3% depending on annual CPI change, Guardian and MetLife are fixed 3% compound)
-Residual disability rider (Enhanced version with MetLife)
-Regular Occupation (i.e. True Own-Occ) rider with Principal
-Non-cancellable rider with Standard

Annual premiums including mental/nervous limitation discounts and the AMA discount for MetLife, does not include possible student/resident discounts:

Principal
$2,165

MetLife
$2,263

Standard
$2,973

Guardian
Provider Plus - $3,109
Provider Plus Limited - $2,470


At those rates I think MetLife would be the best option. I didn't run the rates for females but I"m sure that would change things a bit.
Could you run for females and include the multi life discount or similar discount for other providers? This is where I found principal to really pull ahead in pricing.
summer89
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by summer89 »

BruDude wrote:
Impossible to say what would be covered if they go back into primary care as DI claims have so many variables and gray area. You won't find a claims examiner for an insurance company anywhere that would give you an answer to that one until the time of claim when they can examine the supporting documentation. Teaching med school or working at an insurance company would be considered a different occupation altogether so that should be paid in full if the insured isn't working as a physician.

Someone may tell you that Principal would pay the total disability benefit in that scenario of a specialty doc going back to primary care, but it can't be guaranteed. I see agents selling Principal all the time say "well at the time of claim, it probably won't make a difference anyway".....so if that's the case, why doesn't Principal just include the Specialty definition in the policy and be done with it? That would make them much more competitive with the other companies that do offer it - a lot of the physician clients I've worked with immediately eliminated Principal due to no Specialty definition and I don't blame them.

The part about why would Principal have its own wording for Regular Occupation rather than make it equivalent to specialty definitions in other policies--that makes sense.

Well, I am female, so with the unisex rate, Principal costs a little more than half of what the other insurance companies' policies cost, for the same basic monthly benefit if disabled with riders for partial disability and cost of living adjustment. I do see an area to potentially miss out on receiving the full extent of benefits with Regular Occupation if there was a disability where I could potentially work in another physician job in a different specialty, if Principal decides to group all medical subspecialties into the occupation of being a physician, but for me the critical reason to have a policy is to insure for covering expenses if I were unable to work (i.e., pay for student loans, living expenses, etc.). For me, the value is with the Principal policy, but I understand others' decisions to purchase more expensive policies that are explicit about specialty definition. Thanks again.
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

summer89 wrote:
BruDude wrote:
Impossible to say what would be covered if they go back into primary care as DI claims have so many variables and gray area. You won't find a claims examiner for an insurance company anywhere that would give you an answer to that one until the time of claim when they can examine the supporting documentation. Teaching med school or working at an insurance company would be considered a different occupation altogether so that should be paid in full if the insured isn't working as a physician.

Someone may tell you that Principal would pay the total disability benefit in that scenario of a specialty doc going back to primary care, but it can't be guaranteed. I see agents selling Principal all the time say "well at the time of claim, it probably won't make a difference anyway".....so if that's the case, why doesn't Principal just include the Specialty definition in the policy and be done with it? That would make them much more competitive with the other companies that do offer it - a lot of the physician clients I've worked with immediately eliminated Principal due to no Specialty definition and I don't blame them.

The part about why would Principal have its own wording for Regular Occupation rather than make it equivalent to specialty definitions in other policies--that makes sense.

Well, I am female, so with the unisex rate, Principal costs a little more than half of what the other insurance companies' policies cost, for the same basic monthly benefit if disabled with riders for partial disability and cost of living adjustment. I do see an area to potentially miss out on receiving the full extent of benefits with Regular Occupation if there was a disability where I could potentially work in another physician job in a different specialty, if Principal decides to group all medical subspecialties into the occupation of being a physician, but for me the critical reason to have a policy is to insure for covering expenses if I were unable to work (i.e., pay for student loans, living expenses, etc.). For me, the value is with the Principal policy, but I understand others' decisions to purchase more expensive policies that are explicit about specialty definition. Thanks again.
If you are eligible for unisex rates with multi-life discount, Principal will almost always be a lot less expensive than the other carriers and probably the best option unless cost is not a major concern relative to having the additional/better benefits from a company like Guardian. Even if Principal did not cover the disability under the Total Disability provision (for your question about working in primary care while disabled from a specialty), it would still qualify as a residual disability based on loss of income. The difference between a Total Disability claim and residual claim can be significant, but if Principal is half the price of the other companies then I think it is fine. They are still an excellent company even without the Specialty definition.
BruDude
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

SteelCityMD wrote: Could you run for females and include the multi life discount or similar discount for other providers? This is where I found principal to really pull ahead in pricing.
It takes a while to run all the quotes so I can't really do it right now, but yes Principal does have the best pricing for females with unisex rates/multi-life discount. Usually their pricing is almost half of what other companies are for females that can get those rates and comparing similar benefits. Without the unisex rates/multi-life discount, MetLife is probably the best combination of benefits and price IMO.
SteelCityMD
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by SteelCityMD »

BruDude wrote:
SteelCityMD wrote: Could you run for females and include the multi life discount or similar discount for other providers? This is where I found principal to really pull ahead in pricing.
It takes a while to run all the quotes so I can't really do it right now, but yes Principal does have the best pricing for females with unisex rates/multi-life discount. Usually their pricing is almost half of what other companies are for females that can get those rates and comparing similar benefits. Without the unisex rates/multi-life discount, MetLife is probably the best combination of benefits and price IMO.
No problem, thank you for your response. I appreciate it.
summer89
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Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by summer89 »

For women, aside from Principal, are there any other companies that offer unisex rate pricing if you can get 2-3 people together?
BruDude
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Physician Own Occ Disability Insurance

Post by BruDude »

summer89 wrote:For women, aside from Principal, are there any other companies that offer unisex rate pricing if you can get 2-3 people together?
Guardian will do it with three lives, but must be endorsed by the employer which can be hard to do for a company with more than 10-20 employees. Principal is the easiest since they just have to apply within one year of each other, no endorsement needed.
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