Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Topic Author
ezpz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:16 am

Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by ezpz »

I have been looking for a new doctor and one was recently highly recommended to me. I was filling out the new patient registration form and found that they require that I give them my credit card number and sign an agreement stating that I have given it to them on my own volition, not under coersion, and that they are authorized to post my charges to the account. When I asked the office why they need this since I always pay when services are rendered, I was told it is for the cancellation fee if I don't cancel 48 hours in advance of an appointment. I understand the need to be compensated for a cancellation that they can't fill but I am very leery about giving them the number and authorization. There is no guarantee that it will be secure and no assurance that it won't be used for other charges. The practice also requires that patients pay $36.00 per year for their on-line patient portal. I see other doctors that use this but I've never been asked to pay for the service. Are these red flags or just signs of the times?
Swampy
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:16 am
Location: Paradise

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Swampy »

Cancel any appointment and just find another doctor.
If I have seen further, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants.
Dolphin1
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Dolphin1 »

Since you don't even have an established relationship with this doctor yet, I would say just move on if you have any other doctors to choose from. My doctors have patient portals and I've never been charged for them. Nor have I ever been asked to put a credit card on file.
User avatar
Christine_NM
Posts: 2796
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:13 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Christine_NM »

I guess this is a private practice, not a hospital clinic? I have been to a lot of doctors in the past 3 years, some private and most hospital clinicians, and no one has asked for a credit card or charged for online services. Of course, I belong to a Medicare Advantage plan and it all gets taken care of in some mysterious way.

A little test would be to ask if patients who do not have online access are also required to pay the $36 fee. If yes, I'd figure these two instances are only the tip of the iceberg in overcharging/overtreating, and go elsewhere.
16% cash 49% stock 35% bond. Retired, w/d rate 2.5%
stan1
Posts: 14246
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by stan1 »

My question would be how long will it take to get an appointment? What you are describing are indications it is a busy practice that's not worried about a few patients going elsewhere.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
Lafder
Posts: 4127
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:56 pm
Location: East of the Rio Grande

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Lafder »

I have a different perspective. It may be a sign the doctor has a smaller practice and focuses on patient care, not billing or collections. The docs I know that keep a credit card on file are more of a boutique type caring practice. They charge for no shows to keep their overhead lower. Rather then scheduling 30 patients and only being paid for the ones that show up, they schedule fewer patients and get paid for every one. Some docs also use credit cards to charge for phone calls. I do not.

I would base my decision to see them based on the recs you got and your personal experience.

Electronic health record systems and patient portals can cost 40k plus up front plus ongoing monthly fees. The doc seems to be trying to get patients to help cover the ongoing costs.

If they wrongly charge your card you can always dispute it with the credit card company.

Lafder
Trader Joe
Posts: 2697
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Trader Joe »

ezpz wrote:I have been looking for a new doctor and one was recently highly recommended to me. I was filling out the new patient registration form and found that they require that I give them my credit card number and sign an agreement stating that I have given it to them on my own volition, not under coersion, and that they are authorized to post my charges to the account. When I asked the office why they need this since I always pay when services are rendered, I was told it is for the cancellation fee if I don't cancel 48 hours in advance of an appointment. I understand the need to be compensated for a cancellation that they can't fill but I am very leery about giving them the number and authorization. There is no guarantee that it will be secure and no assurance that it won't be used for other charges. The practice also requires that patients pay $36.00 per year for their on-line patient portal. I see other doctors that use this but I've never been asked to pay for the service. Are these red flags or just signs of the times?
These issues are all red flags and they are telling you to find another doctor. There are plenty of great doctors out there.
User avatar
Christine_NM
Posts: 2796
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:13 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Christine_NM »

Lafder wrote: I would base my decision to see them based on the recs you got and your personal experience.
Lafder
Lafder -

How can a new patient tell if unnecessary tests or treatments are being recommended? Or if symptoms are adequately addressed?

Docs have thousands of patients, but each patient has only one body and one chance to treat it right.
16% cash 49% stock 35% bond. Retired, w/d rate 2.5%
drawpoker
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:33 pm
Location: Delmarva

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by drawpoker »

ezpz, if you are a cat or a dog, providing cc to be put on file is okay. Veterinary hospitals and animal clinics customarily keep credit card info on file, particularly if you are micro-chipped. That way, if you are lost and injured, a Good Samaritan can get emergency treatment for you.

Or, if your parents are away on vacation, and a professional pet sitter is caring for you, same thing, you can get whatever medical help you need immediately from regular vet, no questions asked.

However, in the case that you are a human sapiens instead, well, uh, like some others here, I would run in the other direction. If you have medical insurance, can show the coverage is current, nope, can see no reason for doc's office to be holding your credit card info.

Big, Big Red Flag. This nonsense about being able to collect a fee for cancelling appointments with less than 48 hrs notice - Would likely only apply to concierge physician service, I would think. And, if you have signed up for this fancy concierge type medical plan, the contract you signed should address the issue of any fees for cancelling appointments.
In other words, you would be "on the hook" for paying those fees, anyway, if you wished to keep your service with the doc.
dgdevil
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dgdevil »

Trader Joe wrote:There are plenty of great doctors out there.
Not necessarily. If this one comes highly recommended and checks all the other boxes, just do it. How often do you cancel appointments anyway? These people spend way too much time fussing around with billing. If their policy means they can devote more time to curing people then so be it.
sambb
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by sambb »

the idea of "moving on" assumes that you can find an equivalent doctor.
Last edited by sambb on Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DoubleClick
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by DoubleClick »

Everybody already said it: huge red flag. Absolutely do not interact in any way with this practice.

Also note: typically, you get dozens of sheets of papers to sign in a doc's office. It's very easy for one of them to get you to accept charges (or couch it in some generic language) that you wouldn't otherwise accept. If they have your CC on file, they can make the charge whenever they want, and show you your sign on one of those documents if you attempt to dispute them. The whole exercise is pointless. Please do yourself a favor and run away. This is a favor for the rest of us too, so such practices are not encouraged.
ShiftF5
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by ShiftF5 »

I would get up and walk out.
kolea
Posts: 1322
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:30 pm
Location: Maui and Columbia River Gorge

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by kolea »

I don't see asking for a CC as a red flag but it is annoying for sure. Car rental places and many other businesses also hold that over your head when you give them a CC, you are just used to it or don't read the fine print. It is odd though that the doc is asking for a fee for using a patient portal. Must be a small office. Personally I prefer small offices, but this is what you have to put up with.

Back to the CC. Add on to their agreement some words that say if your card is every compromised due to the office's negligence, they will pay all costs with correcting the problems it causes you. Sign it and give it to them.
Kolea (pron. ko-lay-uh). Golden plover.
AFdoc
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:01 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by AFdoc »

Not in private practice, so I don't have a dog in this hunt. But let me argue from the other side - your doctor has all your personal information, including your birthdate, probably your social security number, and everything medical about you, which they are required to protect. So they *should* be able to be trusted with the security of the information. Do you ask any other company you give your credit card, to be liable if their security becomes compromised?

Now, on to the indignation that people seem to feel about your doctor asking for a credit card number - I have given my credit card number to my cell phone carrier, my cable company, the gas company, pest control, etc...all to bill monthly. I hope that these companies won't get hacked, but if it happens it's not the end of the world. When I stay at a hotel, they always require a credit card for "incidentals," even if the room is already paid for. Same goes for rental cars. But somehow when a doctor asks for the number, it offends people? Why IS this different from the vet asking for your credit card? I think it is a reasonable business practice to ask for a credit card to bill when there is a no-show or late cancellation. If people don't have a stake in showing up, then they waste an appointment that could have been filled by a paying patient, and so should have to pay a fee.

Finally, on the annual charge for online services - I might be slightly annoyed at this too, at first glance. However, it's a nominal charge, and look at it from the practice's perspective - they don't have to provide this service, and they don't get paid for doing so. So if it's a service that you think may help you - for example, to look at your own test results, or request a prescription refill, or book an appointment without speaking to a human - then why not pay for it?

If you ask me, none of these are "red flags," just this practice's business model, which they are being up-front about.
stlutz
Posts: 5585
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:08 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by stlutz »

What percentage of doctor visits do people at least want to schedule with less than 48 hours notice? Quite a few, I think. I can see a charge for a no-show, but this 48 hour cancel nonsense sounds like double-dipping to me (get the cancel fee and get paid for the replacement appointment). I for one would not use that doctor.

Most people like their doctors--you can find someone else.
J295
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:40 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by J295 »

I'm not too surprised that there is some hostility here to a business asking for a credit card. My observation is that some on this forum tend to think everything provided by a professional is fungible and should be at a low cost just like an index fund. That's not my view of the world.

I am not concerned about providing credit card or similar type information, and I'm certainly not offended by it. I trust my doctor to correctly administer and analyze my medical tests, and concern about my credit card being compromised by them doesn't even register.

Depending on the type of medical services needed (routine or specialty) I know what I'm looking for in a doctor and giving a credit card or paying $36 per year aren't material factors. I want the right woman/man for the job. I'm probably lucky in that although not a medical doctor I have substantial contacts locally and nationally that have readily helped me when searching for good medical professionals.

OP -- your health is job one, and a good doctor/clinic would be my focus. Best of luck!
Topic Author
ezpz
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:16 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by ezpz »

Thanks for your views. I think what bothers me the most is that, under normal circumstances, I wouldn't see the doctor more than 2 or 3 discrete times a year yet they would have constant and continuous access to my credit. I would have to monitor my account to be sure there are no unexpected charges. I don't know if I'd have the usual protections from the issuing bank because I'd be authorizing them to use the card. I can't add any protections to the agreement because it is on-line. I don't know much about the practice but it is a solo practice in "integrative" medicine - incorporating eastern and western medicine. Kind of trendy and boutiquey. I may be the only person who thought twice about leaving a credit card on file.
dgdevil
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dgdevil »

ezpz wrote: I would have to monitor my account to be sure there are no unexpected charges.
What unexpected charges are you expecting?
Spirit Rider
Posts: 13977
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:39 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Spirit Rider »

AFdoc wrote:Finally, on the annual charge for online services - I might be slightly annoyed at this too, at first glance. However, it's a nominal charge, and look at it from the practice's perspective - they don't have to provide this service, and they don't get paid for doing so. So if it's a service that you think may help you - for example, to look at your own test results, or request a prescription refill, or book an appointment without speaking to a human - then why not pay for it?
I'm surprised as a Physician you are not aware of the Federal EMR Electronic Medical Records Mandate and the penalties starting in 2015 and increasing each year over the next several years. So yeah, a practice pretty much has to provide this service or pay the consequence. Physicians can receive $44,000 in incentive payments from Medicare over five years or $63,750 over 6 years from Medicaid. So charging patients for this also is kind of double dipping. Not to mention the benefits they receive from having an electronic system.
AFdoc
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:01 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by AFdoc »

I'm surprised as a Physician you are not aware of the Federal EMR Electronic Medical Records Mandate and the penalties starting in 2015 and increasing each year over the next several years. So yeah, a practice pretty much has to provide this service or pay the consequence.
Honestly, I'm not an expert on this, as I work for the government. My understanding of this mandate was that they have to use an EMR, but I'm not sure that means they have to provide an online patient portal. Two different things, right? I could be wrong, of course.
Impromptu
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Impromptu »

I love the voluntary things that have fines or decreases in payments when you don't comply. Lovely meaningful use mandates.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Spirit Rider
Posts: 13977
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:39 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Spirit Rider »

AFdoc wrote:
I'm surprised as a Physician you are not aware of the Federal EMR Electronic Medical Records Mandate and the penalties starting in 2015 and increasing each year over the next several years. So yeah, a practice pretty much has to provide this service or pay the consequence.
Honestly, I'm not an expert on this, as I work for the government. My understanding of this mandate was that they have to use an EMR, but I'm not sure that means they have to provide an online patient portal. Two different things, right? I could be wrong, of course.
True, but pretty much all the EMR/EHR software vendors include online patient portals as a function of their product.
Spirit Rider
Posts: 13977
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:39 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Spirit Rider »

Impromptu wrote:I love the voluntary things that have fines or decreases in payments when you don't comply. Lovely meaningful use mandates.
If it wasn't the federal government it would be considered criminal extortion.
desiderium
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by desiderium »

Look, don't overthink this. The deal is up front and completely straightforward. The goal of these policies are to cover certain costs that are unreimbursed by your insurance. You are looking for medical care. If you feel the office policies are going to get in the way of your relationship with your doctor, go elsewhere. Otherwise don't worry about it and focus on your health.
DoubleClick
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by DoubleClick »

ezpz wrote:I think what bothers me the most is that, under normal circumstances, I wouldn't see the doctor more than 2 or 3 discrete times a year yet they would have constant and continuous access to my credit. I would have to monitor my account to be sure there are no unexpected charges.
You hit the nail on the head.

Exactly why I'd never do this, not even with someone I believed was completely honest. It opens the door for errors if not malice, and it puts the burden on you to defend against this.
DireWolf
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by DireWolf »

Spirit Rider wrote:Not to mention the benefits they receive from having an electronic system.
You are clearly not a physician, because there are no benefits of having an EMR.
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:40 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by staythecourse »

desiderium wrote:Look, don't overthink this. The deal is up front and completely straightforward. The goal of these policies are to cover certain costs that are unreimbursed by your insurance. You are looking for medical care. If you feel the office policies are going to get in the way of your relationship with your doctor, go elsewhere. Otherwise don't worry about it and focus on your health.
I agree 100%. Folks like to treat medicine as something it is not. It is like any other business. They have rules that they make. If you don't like the rules then vote with your feet. If you don't mind them then go with the flow. It is, as it should be, your right as the consumer/ customer.

What is not useful is debating if it is okay or not that is not an option as you don't own the business.

I don't do this, but kudos to the doctor's office for being proactive in preventing bad debt, i.e. nonpayers.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
jebmke
Posts: 25475
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by jebmke »

ezpz wrote:Thanks for your views. I think what bothers me the most is that, under normal circumstances, I wouldn't see the doctor more than 2 or 3 discrete times a year yet they would have constant and continuous access to my credit. I would have to monitor my account to be sure there are no unexpected charges.
We have several places where we have our card on file. Amazon for Kindle, EZ-Pass, New York Times to name three. We have a separate card with a low credit limit. I check all our cards a couple of times a month to monitor transactions. It isn't a big deal for us. I have to go online at least once a month to pay the bill so it only takes one extra check.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17409
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by White Coat Investor »

That's a great idea. I'm going to recommend it to other docs. Heaven forbid people have to actually pay for medical care consumed.

Those of you saying "run away" what exactly are you worried about? You can always dispute an inappropriate charge. You think online portals/EMRs are free? The typical physician office pays $50K a year for this legally mandated "feature." Why should the doctor absorb that? No other business absorbs its government mandated expenses; they pass those expenses on to the final consumer. If the insurance company won't pay it, then the patient should. If you want the insurance company to cover that, expect your premiums to go up.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
toofache32
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by toofache32 »

My office does not keep credit cards on file. We simply require payment in full before the patient can be brought back to see me. No pay no play. I think most people on this forum would be amazed at how often patients (when asked to pay on the way out) "forgot" their wallets or have to go out to the car to get it and never come back. Restaurants call the cops when people "dine and dash" but or culture has taught us that it's OK to stiff the healthcare providers. Hence payment up front, which is a good alternative to keeping a credit card on file. If a dine and dash epidemic developed in restaurants, you can bet they would start to require payment before the food is brought out. On a similar note, we recently made a new policy that to schedule any treatment over $500, the patient must pay half just to schedule, then the other half on the day of service up front. We were worried that this would anger some patients, but we quickly realized the only people it angered were the ones who didn't intend to pay anyway.
Professor Emeritus
Posts: 2628
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:43 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by Professor Emeritus »

DireWolf wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote:Not to mention the benefits they receive from having an electronic system.
You are clearly not a physician, because there are no benefits of having an EMR.
Lets see, my Physician wife is one of the world pioneers in EMR (Founding fellow of the ACMI). I did my first sabbatical on emr in Frankfurt and MIT in 1984. 62 published papers on EMR. I've taught health care risk management and All my health care is with kaiser. The benefits to patients of EMR are enormous.
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

DireWolf wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote:Not to mention the benefits they receive from having an electronic system.
You are clearly not a physician, because there are no benefits of having an EMR.
There are benefits to a well implemented patient portal for the patient and for the doctor's office.

I have seen some badly implemented patient portals and some well implemented ones. The latter let patients check times of upcoming appointments and check in online, thus avoiding those annoying reminder phone calls by the staff. The patient and doctor can also communicate by email on the portal, avoiding telephone tag, etc. Also visit reports and test results are available to the patient, the test results with a comment by the doctor or staff, all things that decrease doctor or staff time. Having the test results online gives the patient immediate access to them if he or she needs to take them to a specialist or internist, because we all know test results are often not cced as requested to an associated doctor.

What astonishes me as a patient is how badly some of these systems are implemented. Who the heck picks those messes for the office when there are good ones out there? Plus, security stinks; often the patient is assigned and cannot change a username and password that a six year old could guess, and the username and password may even be required to be the same across different offices if the website implementer is the same.

I would fork out $36 a year for access to the portal for my internist and the local hospital's portal, which multiple of my specialists use, but I wouldn't pay a cent to be on the ones with lousy security.
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

drawpoker wrote:ezpz, if you are a cat or a dog, providing cc to be put on file is okay. Veterinary hospitals and animal clinics customarily keep credit card info on file, particularly if you are micro-chipped. That way, if you are lost and injured, a Good Samaritan can get emergency treatment for you.

Or, if your parents are away on vacation, and a professional pet sitter is caring for you, same thing, you can get whatever medical help you need immediately from regular vet, no questions asked.

However, in the case that you are a human sapiens instead, well, uh, like some others here, I would run in the other direction. If you have medical insurance, can show the coverage is current, nope, can see no reason for doc's office to be holding your credit card info.

Big, Big Red Flag. This nonsense about being able to collect a fee for cancelling appointments with less than 48 hrs notice - Would likely only apply to concierge physician service, I would think. And, if you have signed up for this fancy concierge type medical plan, the contract you signed should address the issue of any fees for cancelling appointments.
In other words, you would be "on the hook" for paying those fees, anyway, if you wished to keep your service with the doc.
I have had a number of pets over the years. Not one vet has ever kept my credit card on file, to my knowledge. I do make arrangements to cover the care of the pet if I travel and someone else is carrying for them.

I cannot tell if the OP's doctor is being extra careful about being paid, or if this is a red flag situation. It does seem strange, unless they have an unusually bad no show problem. I think it's quite reasonable to require advance notice. For one thing, the doctor may review records before the appointment, and that is wasted time if the cancellation is at the last minute. Every doctor I have has a cancellation policy.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17409
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by White Coat Investor »

Professor Emeritus wrote:
DireWolf wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote:Not to mention the benefits they receive from having an electronic system.
You are clearly not a physician, because there are no benefits of having an EMR.
Lets see, my Physician wife is one of the world pioneers in EMR (Founding fellow of the ACMI). I did my first sabbatical on emr in Frankfurt and MIT in 1984. 62 published papers on EMR. I've taught health care risk management and All my health care is with kaiser. The benefits to patients of EMR are enormous.
Lol.

I agree there are some benefits to an EMR, but as a general rule it is costly and decreases physician productivity.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
HIinvestor
Posts: 1881
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:23 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by HIinvestor »

I have only had one MD who has given me access to a patient porta . The info on it is incomplete and inaccurat . Fortunately, he is a specialist and I do not intend an extended relationship because my fracture will heal. Would NOT be happy to pay for access to this portal. It is supposed to have clinic notes--haven't yet been able to view them, despite several attempts.

The code entered indicates a displaced fracture, although it was and is nondisplaced. There are no notes about what I should do for self care and no written information was ever given.

None of the healthcare providers have asked me to have a CC on file or preauthorize anything. I pay when I have my office visit or when I am billed, whichever the office prefers--CC, check or cash. I'd be surprised if a new doc required me to sign and have a CC on file. D has had to pay for one no show MD visit she forgot about.

If the portal is GOOD and accurate and complete, I'd be willing to pay a nominal annual service fee, I guess. My internist is starting to use a portal, so I will soon see what I think of it.
2comma
Posts: 1241
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by 2comma »

Not that concerned with the credit card, I'm checking it for issues anyway. Paying for the portal? Tacky! It saves the office money. That's just like ATM's charging fees for something that actually reduces their costs. As far as the ever popular $50 for no shows, fine. I'll pay you $50 if I forget an appointment if you'll pay me $50 if I have to wait in your office for more than an hour to see you. I don't have any boutique doctors but I have NEVER seen an MD waiting around for the next patient. I did however have a GP that changed his practice so that he saw sick patients in the afternoon and well patients in the morning and the office managed to get the average wait time below 20 minutes. It can be done. Ever consider a courtesy call to patients when you know you're badly backed up? That's something I'd actually pay extra for.
If I am stupid I will pay.
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

rickmerrill wrote: Ever consider a courtesy call to patients when you know you're badly backed up? That's something I'd actually pay extra for.
Really. I know doctors have emergencies, and they devote time to people with complex problems, but arriving at the doctor's office and being told (only when you ask) that he's running two hours late.
floatingdoc
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:13 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by floatingdoc »

Based on all the doctor bashing on this board and in this thread, I can see I am making the right choice retiring at 49 years old. This attitude that medicine runs like a mcdonalds drive thru is just part of the hassle. I am so glad I am quitting in one week. On to better things like sipping a cocktail on the beach. Why should everyone be compensated except a physician for his/her expenses? Insurance companies have not raised rates more than 7% of their allowed fees in 15 years of private practice (don't tell me otherwise, I know its my business to), yet my overhead with unbelievable mandates shoved down our throats have gone up 65% in 15 years. How many of you fine folks have been charged 2% of your weekly paycheck for the federal sequester???? of 2011? I am. How many have taken a 5% hit for refusing to go to electronic records which impersonalize medicine and generate 10 page BLOATED notes for a sinus infection (no crap, it happens). How about an additional 2% for not spending 40k to electronically prescribe. The latter was the straw that broke the camels back. When NY did that, I started construction on my retirement home in southwest florida with plans to leave medicine in 1 year before NYS electronic prescribing mandate. Sorry, the "consumer" is getting what they are paying for ...a bunch of NURSE practitioners doing the job with 2 years post grad training and no residency program. As a family MD, would you like it if you lost your spouse, your job, your kid and were crying and needed support and I stood up, handed you a tissue and said...um...don't want to keep anyone waiting, your time is up...see you in 3 months. We understand QUANTUM SUFFICIT in medicine means "enough". More and more quality MD'S are saying it and RUNNING from the practice of medicine. You reap what you sew.

Floatingdoc
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

floatingdoc wrote: Sorry, the "consumer" is getting what they are paying for ...a bunch of NURSE practitioners doing the job with 2 years post grad training and no residency program. ... More and more quality MD'S are saying it and RUNNING from the practice of medicine. You reap what you sew.

Floatingdoc
I haven't seen a nurse practitioner in any practice I'm a patient of for years, except the ER.

Also, alas, I have not had time to use my sewing machine for years either. I hope it stops snowing soon, then I can sow some grass seed to start restoring the lawn.
traveltoomuch
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:48 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by traveltoomuch »

My reluctance is not about refusing to pay the MD his cancel fee, it's about not trusting the office staff to bill correctly. My wife once saw a charge from an office that explained "your husband must have picked something up from our dispensary". No, it's that they had billed the wrong patient.

I would not necessarily run away, but I would give them a (soon-to-be-)bad CC number. Maybe one from a cancelled card? Or one you plan to cancel in the next few months?
User avatar
SpringMan
Posts: 5422
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by SpringMan »

I would not give a them a credit card that they can use without prior approval. There are some people that don't even have credit cards and pay everything with cash or check. My oral surgeon gives a 10% discount for payment with cash or check. Though I see the cancellation fee posted at most doctors, this should be something negotiable, especially for patients that have a long term relationship with the doctor. I think they should waive the fee to cancel as long as notified on the day of the appointment because of a valid reason. People do have unexpected emergencies come up without 48 hours notice. Many doctors don't keep their appointments on time and don't think about paying anything for the patient's wasted time. I use credit cards to pay medical expense unless there is a cash discount, I prefer to use a credit card because it pays me a bonus and tracks my expenses for tax purposes. I don't give the doctor's office the right to use the credit card without my approval though they may keep it on file if they like. I agree with the find another doctor advice.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
User avatar
snowshoes
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:33 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by snowshoes »

EmergDoc wrote: Heaven forbid people have to actually pay for medical care consumed!
That's a great idea. I'm going to recommend it to other docs.
+1 :happy
dgdevil
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dgdevil »

floatingdoc wrote:Based on all the doctor bashing on this board and in this thread, I can see I am making the right choice retiring at 49 years old. ... I am so glad I am quitting in one week.


Sorry to read this. Most of the comments on this thread are outrageous. Got paranoia? My ER doc sister just retired, aged 44, same reasons. Good luck!
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95691
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by LadyGeek »

Please stay on-topic, which is about keeping a credit card on file.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
dgdevil
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by dgdevil »

[Question on moderator action removed by admin LadyGeek. It was resolved by PM instead.]
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:40 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by staythecourse »

Professor Emeritus wrote:Lets see, my Physician wife is one of the world pioneers in EMR (Founding fellow of the ACMI). I did my first sabbatical on emr in Frankfurt and MIT in 1984. 62 published papers on EMR. I've taught health care risk management and All my health care is with kaiser. The benefits to patients of EMR are enormous.
Um... no. I am sorry, but EMR may have been designed to help improve quality of healthcare, but its current form does not do that. It works great if EVERYBODY is on the same system, but news flash is that not everybody gets their care done at one stop shop, i.e. Kaiser. With multiple systems using different EHR systems they don't/ won't let their different systems communicate with each other to share information. You have to request info from a different EMR, then it is faxed over (after a release is signed), then it is scanned into your EMR system. That is neither efficient nor smooth. Could it be? Absolutely. Take all the stupid regulatory stuff out which serves no purpose. Let there be only one system in the country and no matter where one gets their care it should be available for ALL healthcare providers. Look at VA EMR which is one of the best I have EVER seen. Assuming everybody gets their care in a system like Kaiser is just ignorant.

One does not need to be a clinician to realize quality of care does not improve with EMR. In the past the doctor would spend 10 minutes talking/ examining a pt. and 5 minutes writing now it is 5 min. talking/ examining and 10 min. documenting in EMR. This is just common sense and passes the sniff test that spending LESS time with the patient can not INCREASE quality of care. I've had hospital systems require the nurse to document in EMR in REAL time DURING codes!! The level of absurdity is amazing. "Let's give another round of epinephrine, nurse Betty did you document that yet because I want to give it now"

I am no expert so if you have an article showing quality of care increases, efficiency increases, and/ or health care costs decrease with EMR in NEJM or JAMA or any other major pub. I would be happy to read it. Again I am not referring to situations where EVERYONE is getting care at the same instituition like Kaiser on the same system, but more representative of how health care is done by many, i.e. my PCP is here, I get my MRI done there, and see my specialist down the street.

Personally, I am just waiting for the landmark paper to come down showing EMR does NOT improve quality or lower cost or improve efficiency. I am sure it is in the works as we have had EMR just look enough now to start pulling data.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:40 am

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by staythecourse »

traveltoomuch wrote: I would not necessarily run away, but I would give them a (soon-to-be-)bad CC number. Maybe one from a cancelled card? Or one you plan to cancel in the next few months?
That is just pathetic. Be an adult. Either accept the policy and do it with good intentions or don't. Either way it is okay, but trying to get around the system is a bit immature.

The ONLY times I have discharged patients from my practice is when their is a break in trust. There should be honesty between your physician and you anything less is not conducive to a healthy relationship. That should be obvious.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
sambb
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by sambb »

It is interesting here that people don't believe businesses like a doctors office, should pass on potential expenses to their clients. It just seems strange to me. I would gladly pay the amount of all of these fees if the doctor was the right doctor for me.

I am sure that most (all?) businesses pass on their expenses to their customers, seems like a necessary part of running a business. If one doesn't like it however, one can always find another business. Nothing wrong with that either. There are even some free clinics out there that one can visit, if saving a few dollars for one's health is important. Or one could consult the internet or homeopathic treatments. Lots of options for people who don't like to spend a few dollars.

I am not worried about using my credit card or giving it to the doctors office. I give it to unknown people at hotels, bars, restaurants, even some vending machines.

Apple pay would be a good way to handle this as well.

If you don't trust your physician with your credit card, then you definitely should not trust them with your health. Maybe you have a hard time trusting anyone with a credit card. Or maybe you trust the bartender or the restaurant hostess more than your doctor (do you even know the name of the restaurant hostess?!?). It is up to you, who you trust. Do you use your credit card at the car dealer for service? Maybe you trust a car dealer more than a doctor. That's a personal issue. And maybe, just maybe, the type of patient who won't pay these fees, is somehow not desirable to this doctor's practice. So, therefore, it is a win-win if you walk and don't want to see this doctor --- they may not want to see you either. This happens in the service industry, certain clients are not worth the time. I used to wait tables and college students would leave a 5% tip oftentimes. Why would we want this stereotypical customer. Sure several left nice tips, but if you don't know, you may be prone to stereotyping.
Last edited by sambb on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
epitomist
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:00 pm

Re: Doctor's office requires credit card on file

Post by epitomist »

There is no perfect provider of any service. The market ensures that there is no top-notch doctor who is so hungry for patients that he will take anyone under the most patient-favorable terms.

If this doctor is able to be choosy about his patients and how/what he bills them, that is at least one sign of a good doctor. The recommendations you received are another sign.

Frankly, it seems obvious the doctor is using these steps to:

1) Ensure payment
2) Weed out difficult patients
Locked