When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

I'm looking for some advice, both on how to handle the situation without being a perpetual nag, and how to keep myself in check and learn to pick my battles. I am sure many Bogleheads have spouses that are either uninterested in finances or spend a bit differently.

My husband is not as frugal as me. He is miles above where he was when we got married three years ago and I am very proud of him and tell him this too. He understands the importance of saving and has been completely on board with getting rid of cable, switching to Cricket, moving into a small apartment for a few years, and tackling debt (we have paid off I think $40k in debt in the last two years - this includes a vehicle). We've recently worked up to a point where we have been able to save $2k a month, provided he does not get a lot of days off due to weather. In reality, we should be able to save $3k. (Our hope is to buy a house this year as we have a baby on the way.)

The one thing I am struggling with is his day-to-day spending. He knows and agrees he needs to cut it back, and he has definitely improved, but it's not at a level I am happy with (I am the finance person). Most of this is due to the fact that he is a foreman and works outside year round. Most of it is convenience purchases. He does not have access to a refrigerator or a microwave at work, so the food he can take to work is limited, and I'm sure this time of year when its 0 out he has 40 mi/hr winds blowing in his face he wants a hot meal. His days start anywhere from 6am-7am and he usually has an hour to drive, if not more (depending on where he is that day) so he doesn't get up early enough to make breakfast. When I was home for a few weeks on PTO for the holidays, I got up before him to make breakfast and he made his lunch and it helped a lot, but that's not sustainable when I'm working, especially right now as I am pregnant I am tired a lot and have been needing more sleep than usual.

He is also a creature of habit. Getting him to change habits is really hard. He's used to waking up and leaving at the last minute, getting coffee and breakfast at the gas station, buying lunch if they don't work through it, and then buying a snack or dinner on the way home because he's starving after a long day in which he may not have had lunch. Now to be fair, it's rare to have days where he does that for every meal, it's usually one or two and he does bring his lunch often - but it adds up. Meanwhile, I'm fortunate to get free coffee at work and have a freezer, refrigerator and microwave at my disposal.

I've tried getting easy "grab and go" things for breakfast, like muffins and bananas, and Cliff bars for the ride home to help with hunger until dinner. But he usually forgets about them as he runs out the door. I've tried leading by example, but that only helped up to the point that we're at. I don't expect him to completely cut out all of his convenience spending, that wouldn't be fair of me, but I would like to see it cut back. I do explain "if we were able to cut out $x of convenience buys a week, we'd be saving $x a month" and he'll say "wow you're right!" but that hasn't led to any changes either.

Anyone have any ideas on what I can do to help him cut back without being a nagging wife? Or perhaps, I am being unreasonable and just need to roll with it.

Thanks :happy
mptfan
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mptfan »

Since you asked, I think you are being unreasonable and you just need to roll with it. Based on what you said, he has come a long way and made many positive financial changes, and you are in a position to save 2 to 3 thousand per month! That is great! You really should let the small stuff go and pick your battles, and be thankful for what you have and all the positive changes he has made. To some extent, we need to accept people for who they are and not expect them to be exactly like us.
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

mptfan wrote:Since you asked, I think you are being unreasonable and you just need to roll with it. Based on what you said, he has come a long way and made many positive financial changes, and you are in a position to save 2 to 3 thousand per month! That is great! You really should let the small stuff go and pick your battles, and be thankful for what you have and all the positive changes he has made. To some extent, we need to accept people for who they are and not expect them to be exactly like us.
Thank you for the honesty. Sometimes I just need to hear it from unbiased people. I am a very exact, thorough person and anytime I see an opportunity for improvement or a way to streamline, I have to fix it. This is why I do what I do for a living. As I get older, and have been working for almost 8 years now, I realize that most people are not like that! And, sometimes I need to dial it back a bit, at least outside of work.
ninevirtues
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by ninevirtues »

Hmm. As others have said, you might have to pick your battles a little. That said, would you be happier if you had a clever and frugal solution for breakfast at least?

If he's getting coffee and breakfast on the way to work because he doesn't have time to make it himself, do you think it would save him time to up an automatic coffeemaker-- that brews directly into a travel mug so he can grab it on his way out the door? Maybe put a baked item that he likes to eat, wrapped so it is easy to eat one-handed, next to the coffee maker?

Additionally, maybe put a stash of clif bars and other convenience foods IN the commute car (say weekly or the night before) so he does not have to waste time by stopping to get them.
John3754
Posts: 1289
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by John3754 »

Sounds like you've already said your piece and made your position clear to him, so continuing forward with the discussion at this point would be nagging in my opinion.
anil686
Posts: 1316
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 12:33 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by anil686 »

Some of these are not necessarily financial habits but rather time management habits. That is difficult - my advice (being one like your spouse) is to automate anything that is - well - automatable. I use to buy coffee at the local gas station every morning (every 7th cup free :happy ) - until my spouse bought a $30 coffee maker that brews at 170 degrees and has a clock/auto start feature. I fill up the water at night and set the coffee to start brewing at 5 AM - problem solved. That was four years ago and I think my cost per pot (including coffee) is 50 cents. The travel cup I use is 20 oz and so I have been saving roughly $5 dollars a week (I work six days a week and got a cup for free every 7th).

You can try leaving a breakfast item out next to the coffee cup every day - on his way out with the mug - maybe he will grab the breakfast item. Everything else is too much - he does not have a fridge or Mwave. You could leave a snack by the mug as well (i.e. Cliff bar) I guess - but it sounds like if the breakfast thing with coffee was handled - that would be an improvement.

Actually, the more I write in this thread - if this is the worse discretionary spending habits your spouse has, you have a great spouse :wink:
NoVa Lurker
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:14 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by NoVa Lurker »

These issues are very, very normal for a relationship. I have seen many otherwise-good relationships get derailed by conflicts about spending habits. If I were you, I would really try hard not to harp on convenience store purchases. It's a different story if he's regularly buying new electronics on a credit card, losing money gambling, etc.

That said, the suggestions from other posters above are good. If you can help your spouse spend less on convenience food (by preparing some stuff that he likes, and leaving stuff in his car that won't go bad), you'll both be happy.

Is the $2-3k/month of savings per month in addition to retirement savings, or do you not have other retirement savings? If you are currently saving $2-3k/month more than what you need for retirement savings, then it seems like you should really loosen up on your spouse buying sandwiches for lunch.

One other unsolicited suggestion - we bought our home when my wife was pregnant with our first kid. In retrospect, we would have been much better off waiting a couple of extra years. We would have had extra savings, and we would have had a better idea what to look for in a home. The apartment would have been fine for a baby, and even a toddler and a baby. In fact, our toddlers would have been much happier in the carpeted apartment, all on one level, that we left behind. Instead, they learned to walk in a house with hardwood floors and lots of stairs.... The wrong home can be a $100,000 mistake (or worse) - that can buy a lot of gas station coffee!
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by HomerJ »

mojave wrote:I'm fortunate to get free coffee at work and have a freezer, refrigerator and microwave at my disposal.
And he works outside in zero degree weather and 100 degree weather.

Work on getting him to eat breakfast at home, but let him buy lunch and snacks. The guy works hard and deserves it.

You're doing fine, saving $2k a month... and you've paid off 40k in debt in the last two years... No need to push it further right now..
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by stoptothink »

mojave wrote:
mptfan wrote:Since you asked, I think you are being unreasonable and you just need to roll with it. Based on what you said, he has come a long way and made many positive financial changes, and you are in a position to save 2 to 3 thousand per month! That is great! You really should let the small stuff go and pick your battles, and be thankful for what you have and all the positive changes he has made. To some extent, we need to accept people for who they are and not expect them to be exactly like us.
Thank you for the honesty. Sometimes I just need to hear it from unbiased people. I am a very exact, thorough person and anytime I see an opportunity for improvement or a way to streamline, I have to fix it. This is why I do what I do for a living. As I get older, and have been working for almost 8 years now, I realize that most people are not like that! And, sometimes I need to dial it back a bit, at least outside of work.
I am much the same way and am in a very similar situation with my wife. She's made improvements, I've just accepted that it (saving money, being as cost-efficient as possible) is never going to be as important to her as it is to me. Same exact issue, she rarely packs food for work (or forgets it) so she eats out and will go the store for a box of diapers and come back with several (in my mind) superfluous items. Now I do things like pack her a lunch each morning and put it in her car so she has no excuse, try to be the one who heads to the store when we are out of diapers, and we now budget a small amount each month that she can spend on whatever the heck she wants (this includes meals out, etc.). When we first married, we had a few "discussions" about it, but I soon realized it wasn't worth it. Recognize the great progress they've made and move on.
Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 25625
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Forget the travel mug - buy him a bullet Thermos or two. When I used to go hunting, I'd brew a nice pot of coffee, toss in the sugar and cream and take it with me. A good Thermos will keep the brew hot for 8 hours or so. Take the travel mug to pour from Thermos to mug for drinking. Use another Thermos for those days when you are in the mood for hearty soup - "hot". Not saying he should eat soup every day, but if you save $3 on coffee a day, that's $60-$75 bucks a month - there's your diaper money. :)
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Twins Fan
Posts: 2775
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Twins Fan »

Snacks, meals, and coffee.... Jeez, I was expecting to see thousands on vacations, expensive purses, and other useless things when you don't have the money for it like my ex spouse. Then I was going to say, prepare to have an ex... :)

I agree with others and you, OP... Sounds like hubby has made positive changes already so let him have these things. I'm the same as him about running out the door in the morning and grabbing/paying for a meal and coffee during the work day. Could I save some by making stuff at home? Sure, but it's not really a life changing amount so I don't sweat it. And OP, leave work at work... you don't have to completely streamline your spouse.
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

NoVa Lurker wrote: Is the $2-3k/month of savings per month in addition to retirement savings, or do you not have other retirement savings? If you are currently saving $2-3k/month more than what you need for retirement savings, then it seems like you should really loosen up on your spouse buying sandwiches for lunch.

One other unsolicited suggestion - we bought our home when my wife was pregnant with our first kid. In retrospect, we would have been much better off waiting a couple of extra years. We would have had extra savings, and we would have had a better idea what to look for in a home. The apartment would have been fine for a baby, and even a toddler and a baby. In fact, our toddlers would have been much happier in the carpeted apartment, all on one level, that we left behind. Instead, they learned to walk in a house with hardwood floors and lots of stairs.... The wrong home can be a $100,000 mistake (or worse) - that can buy a lot of gas station coffee!
It's in addition to retirement savings. I have my 401k with 12% of my paycheck going to it. He has a pension and an annuity that his employer pays for, but the annuity is not that much (right now it's $1.10 an hour but it was $0.10 an hour just a few years ago because of the economy). I want to get an IRA set up at least for him, but he wants to save for a house instead. So, I'm ok with our retirement right now, with hopes to do an IRA for him in the next few years.

Thanks for the advice on the home thing. We're looking in the <$150k range and bring in roughly $180k a year now with his recent promotion. He is not an apartment person and while he's been a trooper about it over the last few years, not having a garage to work on our cars or store his tools or just hang out in (I don't get it but, he loves that) has been wearing away at his happiness. He loves to tinker and work on houses too as his hobby, and cannot do that in our apartment of course so is bored to tears. I have an acre of land that we will be building on in about 5 years or so the house is just to get out of the apartment for a few years, make him happy (after having neighbors with fleas, I'll be happy too) and maybe get lucky and make a little cash from it from his improvements.
User avatar
gardemanger
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by gardemanger »

Good suggestions have been made for making the breakfast/coffee provision as easy as possible. The idea of stashing healthy snacks in his car is also pretty good. I'd also suggest you can put stuff in his coat pockets (only works in winter!) If you're up for it, you can make home-made snacks and be even more frugal - lots of good recipes out there for healthy snack bars and breakfast bars and such.

However, it is completely YOUR choice about how much extra house-wifing you are truly willing to do on his behalf, since (1) he's an adult (2) you too have a job and (3) for heaven's sake you're pregnant, so...don't sign up to do extra work if you don't feel good about doing it. If you really enjoy baking and preparing things and you would get a lot of satisfaction out of saving some money thereby, that's great. If it makes you feel like a martyr, it won't be good for either of you or the relationship, and his convenience snack-buying would be a comparatively small price to pay to avoid that.

I'd say it's reasonable to aim to trim back the convenience purchases somewhat without adopting a scorched-earth policy about them.
goblue100
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:31 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by goblue100 »

I'm trying to imagine the thread your husband would start. Something like, my wife is a real miser. She pinches a penny till it screams. She doesn't know the real value of money is in what it buys us, not locking it up somewhere. :)

Sometimes we need the other persons ying to our yang. It sounds like you have tamed the worst of his wasteful spending, but maybe you need to learn to live a little too? Just food for thought.
"Confusion has its cost" - Crosby, Stills and Nash
User avatar
FelixTheCat
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:39 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by FelixTheCat »

mojave wrote:He does not have access to a refrigerator or a microwave at work, so the food he can take to work is limited, and I'm sure this time of year when its 0 out he has 40 mi/hr winds blowing in his face he wants a hot meal. His days start anywhere from 6am-7am and he usually has an hour to drive, if not more (depending on where he is that day) so he doesn't get up early enough to make breakfast.
The guy is not going out buying video games or stupid things. His purchases is food.

Personally, I would drop this issue unless you are willing to make him breakfast and lunch. As you said, he's working in 0 degree weather with 40 mile winds after his one hour drive. I would give the guy a break on this one.
Felix is a wonderful, wonderful cat.
lack_ey
Posts: 6701
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:55 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by lack_ey »

mojave wrote:
NoVa Lurker wrote: Is the $2-3k/month of savings per month in addition to retirement savings, or do you not have other retirement savings? If you are currently saving $2-3k/month more than what you need for retirement savings, then it seems like you should really loosen up on your spouse buying sandwiches for lunch.

One other unsolicited suggestion - we bought our home when my wife was pregnant with our first kid. In retrospect, we would have been much better off waiting a couple of extra years. We would have had extra savings, and we would have had a better idea what to look for in a home. The apartment would have been fine for a baby, and even a toddler and a baby. In fact, our toddlers would have been much happier in the carpeted apartment, all on one level, that we left behind. Instead, they learned to walk in a house with hardwood floors and lots of stairs.... The wrong home can be a $100,000 mistake (or worse) - that can buy a lot of gas station coffee!
It's in addition to retirement savings. I have my 401k with 12% of my paycheck going to it. He has a pension and an annuity that his employer pays for, but the annuity is not that much (right now it's $1.10 an hour but it was $0.10 an hour just a few years ago because of the economy). I want to get an IRA set up at least for him, but he wants to save for a house instead. So, I'm ok with our retirement right now, with hopes to do an IRA for him in the next few years.

Thanks for the advice on the home thing. We're looking in the <$150k range and bring in roughly $180k a year now with his recent promotion. He is not an apartment person and while he's been a trooper about it over the last few years, not having a garage to work on our cars or store his tools or just hang out in (I don't get it but, he loves that) has been wearing away at his happiness. He loves to tinker and work on houses too as his hobby, and cannot do that in our apartment of course so is bored to tears. I have an acre of land that we will be building on in about 5 years or so the house is just to get out of the apartment for a few years, make him happy (after having neighbors with fleas, I'll be happy too) and maybe get lucky and make a little cash from it from his improvements.
If the house is a stopgap measure before one that you would build in 5+ years, consider renting a house. In many markets there are options available. After transactions fees, mortgage, property tax, etc. it may come out cheaper. Then again, if you can buy something cheaper that he'd enjoy fixing up, that swings the analysis.

Things change from year to year, but with $180k coming in pretax you probably should be looking at retirement savings more than 12% of one income a year, at least maxing out the one 401k. Maybe I've misunderstood something somewhere? Where does the money even go to, if you're this frugal and not saving all that much on retirement? Kids are expensive, but where'd it all go, even after paying all the debt the last two years? (I probably just missed something or made a mental accounting error, don't mind me)

On the other hand, at that income level I find it hard to fault the convenience / time management purchases (actually, even if it were half or a third that much...), though the automated coffee and snack ideas so far both save time and money and are good if he'd be on board with them.
User avatar
xystici
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:40 pm
Location: San Diego, Boston & Barcelona

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by xystici »

The two of you seem to be making good progress at this. While at it, I suggest you create a detailed budget for yourself (not for your husband) to help you understand the financial implications of your worries. I bet you will have a much clear understanding of how important is this for your overall family finances as well as what steps need to be taken to trim those extra expenses a bit if necessary.
Trust yourself, Break the rules, Don't be afraid to fail, Don't listen to naysayers, Work your butt off. "It is in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped. Choose now and well"
rjm_cali
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by rjm_cali »

I think I can tell you why he doesn't take coffee with him or eat food that supposed to be picked up at home for that purpose. If he's anything like me he really doesn't want to have to focus on those things at that time when his mind is probably full of work and just "getting on". It probably bugs my wife but there are times when I just want to do that one thing and even if I could I don't want to do other stuff. It'll all get done but in the order I want to do them. It's just the way I work. Sometimes I want to multi-task others I don't ....

My partner has some spending issues but given that I probably have a few too and her's are relatively minor I just roll with it as I think you should. Like others have said they are small battles and won't win them all. Sounds like the two of you have won a lot already.
flyingbison
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:52 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by flyingbison »

Why not establish a weekly or monthly budget for personal/discretionary spending for each one of you? You could either use a set dollar amount, or a % of your earnings. Then you don't have to worry about what he does with that money.

Or, keep separate finances. Personally, it would drive me nuts to have someone trying to tell me how I should spend (or not spend) small amounts of money.
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

Thanks everyone, you all made really great points and good suggestions. I will try to leave this alone with him :happy

Re: the $180k/year, that is pre-tax. It's also an estimate, as each week his take home pay is different unlike my salary. One week, he might bring home $1300 (so, before taxes and such paycheck is $2200 or so), another week (like the week of New Years, or weeks that have exceptionally bad weather) hell bring home a little over $500, but that doesn't happen often.
Johno
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 4:14 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Johno »

It strikes me as a pretty dreary life to reach 40 and have somebody scolding you about buying a cup of coffee. Sorry but that's my gut reaction. I know people's financial situations differ, but still.

My wife is less frugal than I am. The solution over time has been to make a lot more money but not scale up life style much so the potential arguments (not over 100' yachts but not over cups of coffee either, somewhere in the middle :D ) have become trivial. Then I've also tried to rein in my obsessive misery tendencies about money where I *would* complain about few $100 or occasional few $1k things which are unnecessary but relatively trivial wrt our financial security. It's speaking of own situation, but I think that's sometimes preferable to offering comments as if the advising person is actually living the OP's life, I don't pretend to. The concept is what I'm getting at, the threshold of trivial expense might be higher or lower than ours depending on the person.
User avatar
Christine_NM
Posts: 2796
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:13 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Christine_NM »

I worry more about the nutrition of convenience foods than their cost. Is he hungry because of work or because of an all-carb diet? Either one will make you eat more, and both together would make for incessant snacking. A very large plate of scrambled eggs and toast will do much more for your budget and his hunger than a Clif bar or baked junk. If you are too tired to make breakfast, I do not know what else you expect him to do.

One more thing -- you are the finance person? There are two in a marriage and maybe if you did not assume all savings will stem from your ideas, then he would surprise you. Or maybe not, I really don't know.

Well, my $0.02.
16% cash 49% stock 35% bond. Retired, w/d rate 2.5%
elchris
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by elchris »

mojave wrote:
mptfan wrote:Since you asked, I think you are being unreasonable and you just need to roll with it. Based on what you said, he has come a long way and made many positive financial changes, and you are in a position to save 2 to 3 thousand per month! That is great! You really should let the small stuff go and pick your battles, and be thankful for what you have and all the positive changes he has made. To some extent, we need to accept people for who they are and not expect them to be exactly like us.
Thank you for the honesty. Sometimes I just need to hear it from unbiased people. I am a very exact, thorough person and anytime I see an opportunity for improvement or a way to streamline, I have to fix it. This is why I do what I do for a living. As I get older, and have been working for almost 8 years now, I realize that most people are not like that! And, sometimes I need to dial it back a bit, at least outside of work.
I am much the same way, try to fix everything and there is always a better way to do things. It is hard often to understand how people cannot act the same way. Since we got married, my DH has come a very long way financially but everything takes time and small steps help. But we are also on a different boat - I am a student so finances have to be tight to live on one income and still be able to enjoy life. Judging from your combined yearly income, I think you are being way too picky/thrifty (and I am picky/thrifty). He works in a physically-demanding job which is exhausting and needs calories especially in the winter - you should want for him to buy a warm lunch. If he is a bit careful with where he gets his lunch so he doesn't overspend, that shouldn't be a huge monthly bill especially since you are already saving 2K on top of your retirement. Relax, take a step back and enjoy the progress!
User avatar
RyeWhiskey
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:04 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by RyeWhiskey »

The really easy way to "solve" your issue is to budget it into your finances every month. So instead of working on ways around it, budget it in: say, $20/day to start. If he spends less than this normally then reduce the budget, more, then increase it. Then this money will be accounted for and you'll feel better, he'll feel better as he won't feel like he's spending too much, and you'll be able to account for it and hence save in other areas. No need to make things complicated as others have mentioned, it's really quite menial compared to some non frugal folks out there. Congrats on doing so well saving! :beer
This post was brought to you by Vanguard Total World Stock Index (VTWSX/VT).
fposte
Posts: 2327
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by fposte »

flyingbison wrote:Why not establish a weekly or monthly budget for personal/discretionary spending for each one of you? You could either use a set dollar amount, or a % of your earnings. Then you don't have to worry about what he does with that money.
That's what I'm thinking. Right now the OP is focusing on what the expenditures are on rather than how much they are, and she doesn't have any financial way of considering a purchase acceptable. If they agree that they each have X dollars per month for discretionary spending and can keep to that, what it's being spent on doesn't matter. OP might be able to let go and OP's DH will appreciate not having individual purchases vetted for validity.
User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 9085
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by prudent »

This got a chuckle out of me - I am both the frugal OP AND the eat-on-the-go spouse. So I definitely relate to both sides of the issue.

I manage the finances. And I'm pretty frugal. But... I am going to grab something to eat on the way to/from work if I want. I'm going to buy my lunch if I want. That's just me. Yes, I track what it costs, and yes, if I didn't do that I could save more money. A muffin or fruit is not a satisfying breakfast to me (on the other hand, she puts nuts, seeds and protein powder in a blender and loves it!). I want a hot breakfast and freshly prepared lunch. It's just not something I want to cut out. Given his work environment, I think he's entitled to what he's doing.

I could always come up with more ways to save but I need a balance. Unless there is a time-critical need to urgently save more right now, I would let it go given the good progress already made so far. I understand the frugal mindset - you would find satisfaction in implementing something to cut spending and would not consider that to be a sacrifice. He has made sacrifices already and this issue is not worth additional fussing over. I would go crazy if I had to bring my lunch/snacks/whatever while I know we are saving at a good rate.
User avatar
dbCooperAir
Posts: 1107
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:13 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by dbCooperAir »

As others have said you pick your battles, sounds like you guys are doing just fine.

You did not say if this was your first baby or not, if it is, I'm sure you know it already but many things are going to change. This little spending thing is going to be a blip on the radar. The tables may turn, you may want to spoil the baby and he will be wondering why you need to buy a new stuffed animal every week!

If I have learned one thing, don't mess and or try to reason with a pregnant woman, more so in the last 2-3 months :wink:

Strive to save 15-20% and spend lots of time enjoying your new baby when he or she comes. Life has a way a speeding up after you have kids for some reason.
Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him. | -Dwight D. Eisenhower-
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by ResearchMed »

fposte wrote:
flyingbison wrote:Why not establish a weekly or monthly budget for personal/discretionary spending for each one of you? You could either use a set dollar amount, or a % of your earnings. Then you don't have to worry about what he does with that money.
That's what I'm thinking. Right now the OP is focusing on what the expenditures are on rather than how much they are, and she doesn't have any financial way of considering a purchase acceptable. If they agree that they each have X dollars per month for discretionary spending and can keep to that, what it's being spent on doesn't matter. OP might be able to let go and OP's DH will appreciate not having individual purchases vetted for validity.
Something like this makes sense.

And don't forget... these expenditures are for FOOD. That is, the DH would have to be eating something!
So part of these costs aren't really discretionary at all. (Yeah, it could be a tiny proportion or a lot, depending upon what is chosen compared with how he/they would have eaten food at home, or prepared at home.)

However, given the type of job he has, it seems you could relax just a bit here. Those are not the most comfortable working conditions, to put it mildly.
We both cringe when we see outdoor workers when it is bitter, bitter cold, or during a heat wave in the full sun. That's tough, putting it mildly.
And especially if some of this is for hot beverage/food in the bitter cold, or for a nice *cold* beverage mid-summer, I'm not sure how optional it all is.
And the calorie count needed for someone working outdoors in the cold is quite different from what those of us inside at desks need.
On the other hand, there might be ways to save on some of it, as mentioned, with food or thermos (for early in the day) placed in the car, or perhaps right by the door.

It wasn't clear if DH was buying dinner on the way home.
If so, perhaps this could be changed to something more of a snack, so you could dine together?

But I do agree that if this is the extent of the "spending problem", you have it a bit easy compared with some.
So here's a question: Are there other areas where your spending patterns are different, and might that be coloring your perception of his food/drink spending while at work?
Just a thought...

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
island
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by island »

I'm kind of surprised so many are saying just leave it alone since there are a lot of people on this board who watch every penny. That's not me and apparently not those who responded either!

But I think you also said he's not contributing to his retirement at all? That's a Boglehead no no.
Plus you have a baby on the way, and he's not happy with apt life and want to get a house....

All those things cost money so makes sense you'd want to see where the discretionary spending is going and like the others said, yet still not crack down on every penny.
I've never made a budget or tracked spending myself, but others find it useful so you might want to try that just to make sure you're not overly focused on the small things rather than the big picture.

If he frequents convenience stores that often, those purchases can add up, especially if you're saying it's more than just coffee. Can you give us a rough idea of what the convenience store and lunch out purchases add up to?

You mentioned he leaves for work last minute so doesn't have time to eat breakfast, I get that, but then he stops at gas stations for coffee and "breakfast"? I don't get that. Ok, what does breakfast at a gas station consist of? That stop takes time and what can he get at a gas station that he can't get at home?

The time saving rationale for that and again stopping on the way home, makes no sense to me other than he just prefers it. Maybe stops part way to break up the ride?

If he routinely forgets to bring convienent food you leave out for him in an area he can't miss, I'd also bet it's more about not wanting it rather than forgetting.

If he's "a creature of habit" maybe he just doesn't want his routine messed with, but I don't see the harm in asking about the why of it or trying the good suggestions others mentioned, especially for more convenient coffee and breakfast in the morning.
Besides the money, I'd be me more concerned about the empty calorie crap consumption, but don't even go there if you're hoping to convince him from a purely financial standpoint! :wink:
Last edited by island on Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Meg77
Posts: 2835
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Meg77 »

*Sigh.* I wish I cared about this as much as you do, truly. I know one day (esp if we have kids) I'll look back and berate myself for how much we could have saved if we had cut our food and dining costs sooner. My husband and I both eat out every work day on average. He eats lunch out every single day (which is the norm at his workplace and also an important time for him to socialize and network), and I purchase either breakfast, lunch, or (on occasion) happy hour most days. Our food and dining spending line item second only to our mortgage, and it kills me every time I look at our spending chart on Mint.

However, I am beginning to try to just accept this as part of our lives, as we have set them up. Sure I could insist we slash our food spending, just like I could cut cable, own a cheaper car or move to cut our housing costs. But the bottom line is that I don't really want to. Sometimes I agonize about how much faster we could be paying down debt or how much more we could be saving with a few tweaks, but since we are saving a lot and have high incomes, I justify the luxury of high quality foods I don't have to cook on dishes I don't have to clean.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by HomerJ »

I drive a cheap Honda Civic so I don't have to worry about the small stuff.

Saving $10,000 on my car means I can waste $3650 a year on little junk if I want to ($10 a day) - (although I don't spend quite that much... probably waste $200 a month on junk so $2400)
Last edited by HomerJ on Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by arsenalfan »

Deleted. Good luck!
Last edited by arsenalfan on Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
autonomy
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:22 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by autonomy »

I was expecting to hear about frivolous and compulsive spending on gadgets and clothing... but this? I say don't sweat it. I'd be less worried about the $60/week he spends than I would be about the long-term health effects of gas station food on your husband.
joelly
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:22 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by joelly »

Sorry but you're being unreasonable. I understand why you are worry though. It comes with being a new mom. If I were you and I am expecting my 1st baby, I would focus on preparing myself and my environment to welcome my 1st baby. A baby won't notice if he/she is being raised in an apt or a house. Once your baby celebrate 1st birthday then you should regroup with your husband about buying that 1st house.

One thing at a time and one step at a time.
leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:56 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by leonard »

arsenalfan wrote:Problem is partner spending on convenience/takeout breakfast/lunch/dinner due to hectic lifestyle.

I would recast problem as a health problem, rather than economic. You probably can, unless he's getting takeout Panera salads or something.

Having a baby will only make time/healthy choices more important. Look at the thread "tell me about your 40s" - MANY comments revolve around health, and how exercise/diet/drink choices made in 20s and 30s caught up to their bodies in the 40s.

Planning ahead to have leftovers and a system to bring them will help health and budget.
Takeout is just too tempting and easy...fight that with preparation. Buy some thermoses which keep food hot for 16 hours (ok still have to microwave for 5min in AM). But instead of spending $15-20 a day you can pack
1. 40 oz Thermos of coffee or tea
2. A hot entree of leftovers (soup casserole etc)
3. Hand fruit
4. Nuts and raisins

Protein bars are great in a pinch - but most workout sites reveal they're one step away from a Snickers.
Sorry I have ranted on a tangent, but this very problem has been faced by us as well. It never worked when it was a $$ issue. It clicked for me when I recognized it as a health issue.
I'd suggest it's a horrible decision to turn a discussion about spending on eating to a larger discussion about health. The advice earlier in this thread was do not turn this food issue in to "nagging". I'd offer too don't turn this issue in to additional nagging about health.

BTW - if the husband works outside year round - he may have a physical job that provides plenty of exercise anyway. So, the health aspect may be negated.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
User avatar
gardemanger
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by gardemanger »

It is most certainly NOT true that exercise negates the bad effects of an unhealthy diet. But health advice is outside the scope of this forum and really shouldn't be dragged into this discussion.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by VictoriaF »

If the husband is a foreman he is subject to social pressure to have "manly" meals with the guys.

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:56 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by leonard »

gardemanger wrote:It is most certainly NOT true that exercise negates the bad effects of an unhealthy diet. But health advice is outside the scope of this forum and really shouldn't be dragged into this discussion.
I don't want to get this closed - so I'll just throw out a "give me a break" and move on.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
mlipps
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mlipps »

I mostly agree with other posters but this might be a pick your battles type of situation.

However, I do love my breakfast sandwich maker, so I thought I would share it with you!

Maybe your husband could muster the energy to make one in the morning? Or you could make one for him? They are so fast & easy with this gadget. I laughed when I opened it on Christmas morning last year, but we use it all the time on busy days.

http://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Beach-25 ... B00BTIUYOO
Lone-star
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Lone-star »

I don't think youre being unreasonable at all.

Gas station and fast food adds up much quicker than people realize and most people, when faced with the totals are shocked.

I had a bad habit of frequenting a specialized fishing tackle store during lunch several times a week. I realized I was wasting too much money and made an effort to cut out the frequent trips.

I was real proud of myself for cutting back on fishing tackle until my wife showed me the tally of all my gas station purchases, turns out I was spending over twice as much on gas station junk as I was on what I perceived as expensive fishing gear. I could have continued my frequent tackle shop visits, cut out the gas station junk and still spent less money.

Even though I knew it was common sense it took a bit of nagging on my wifes part before I was able to change my habits but Im glad she did.
Austintatious
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Austintatious »

Mojave, you are NOT being unreasonable. As has been discussed before and in detail on this forum, regular "eating out" on the job is much more expensive that "brown bagging it". Furthermore, it's a near totally unnecessary expense for most people that could be dedicated to savings. And unless you're bringing in some hefty paychecks, that money spent on eating out can be a very significant portion of household income. Your suggestion that it be cut back meaningfully in an effort to save more is the prudent thing.

Your husband's eating habits, at home and on the job, are the way they are because he wants it that way. Period. A grown man, let alone, one sufficiently mature to be a foreman, is capable of the minimal self discipline of preparing his own breakfast in the morning in minimal time, with a bit of forethought and effort, a breakfast far better than anything he's going to get at "the gas station". And, as a practice, he can remember to pick up his lunch as he goes out the door if he really wants to. As far as lunch is concerned, the products available to him that would keep his lunch and snacks hot, cold and/or readily available are many and quite effective. Bottom line - if he wanted to do it, he could. There are plenty of guys and gals out there in the elements, doing construction and other hard work, and hauling a lunch pail to work.

Can there be social or other pressures on the job to eat out with colleagues? You bet, but so what? If he wants to deal with it, he can. Period. If there are times when he has to lunch with the boss or a client, then by all means. And when he wants to eat out alone or with coworkers just because he wants to from time to time, no big deal.

But, as you've figured out, cutting much or most of it out should result in some real savings. Come house buying time, maybe those extra savings could mean a bigger house, maybe even a bigger garage/man cave with a new, super-sized rolling tool chest to put in it.

You're not asking him to give it all up. Asking him to cut back is more than reasonable. It's the prudent thing. And he's a lucky guy to have you at his side. Good luck!
User avatar
obgyn65
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:11 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by obgyn65 »

To the OP- please choose your battles carefully. This is not one of them.
"The two most important days in someone's life are the day that they are born and the day they discover why." -John Maxwell
User avatar
Crimsontide
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:32 pm
Location: DFW Metromess

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by Crimsontide »

rjm_cali wrote:I think I can tell you why he doesn't take coffee with him or eat food that supposed to be picked up at home for that purpose. If he's anything like me he really doesn't want to have to focus on those things at that time when his mind is probably full of work and just "getting on". It probably bugs my wife but there are times when I just want to do that one thing and even if I could I don't want to do other stuff.
+1 way back when we were newlyweds my wonderful wife would get up and make my breakfast (scrambled eggs, grits, toast and bacon of course) every day. I didn't really want that big breakfast as I was eager to get to work and get on the clock (was hourly back then) but I never said anything as I was afraid it would hurt her feelings. After our daughter came along all the attention was focused on her, and my big breakfast just fell by the wayside. Funny how these things usually work themselves out...
User avatar
midareff
Posts: 7711
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:43 am
Location: Biscayne Bay, South Florida

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by midareff »

I think you need to cut the guy some slack. Freeze his petunia's off and there is a problem with lunch out? A coffee and something on the way in... SO WHAT!
User avatar
alec
Posts: 3181
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by alec »

Its probably habits he picked up when single. I worked with many construction guys and landscapers that were single and rarely brought any food with them because they didn't have any at home. Simple as that. Single guys that didn't shop or really cook. After a while it just becomes habit.

I'd just have an adult conversation with him.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair
investor1
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:15 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by investor1 »

For morning coffee, get a coffee maker that has a timer. Load everything the nigh before, and set it so the coffee is ready for him as he needs to leave. He can take it in a thermos.

For breakfast, why not just make more food in evening for dinner. When he wakes up, he can just heat up the leftovers. You could also make oatmeal in a slow cooker overnight so it is ready in the morning. Cereal works too. A mix of these three would seem to work great.

For snacks, why wouldn't fruit/nuts/berries do the trick?

For lunch, I'd say leave it alone. You said he brings lunch sometimes, but sometimes he just wants a hot meal and he can't bring one.
DVMResident
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by DVMResident »

My spouse and I have a similarly opposed spending habits.
She want to maintain her autonomy and I desperately want to avoid micro-managing. So we finally settled on this solution:
-We pool the money
-We subtract out common costs (health insurance, mortgage, utilities, retirement, ER funding, etc.)
-Divide what's left and send it to our respective accounts

I don't ask how she spends *her* money and vice verse (mine extra cash goes to dates with her and investing). I enjoy meeting our savings goals. She enjoys the stability of the ER fund when the occasional unplanned bill appears.

Our relationship is better without micro-management and we are still meeting our savings goals -- which are very ambitious.

Works for us.
Last edited by DVMResident on Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tibbitts
Posts: 23720
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by tibbitts »

You're being unreasonable - as in off-the-scale unreasonable - and need to "just roll with it."
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

mlipps wrote:I mostly agree with other posters but this might be a pick your battles type of situation.

However, I do love my breakfast sandwich maker, so I thought I would share it with you!

Maybe your husband could muster the energy to make one in the morning? Or you could make one for him? They are so fast & easy with this gadget. I laughed when I opened it on Christmas morning last year, but we use it all the time on busy days.

http://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Beach-25 ... B00BTIUYOO

This is awesome, thank you!! When he does buy breakfast, I think he actually gets those b-fast sandwiches from Dunkin. Completely forgot about that.
User avatar
Topic Author
mojave
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:59 am

Re: When your spouse isn't quite as frugal as you

Post by mojave »

I can't reply to everyone but just want to say thanks again, lots of food for thought and interesting insight. I really appreciate every response I received and each one was very helpful.
Post Reply