How to make more money?

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member
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How to make more money?

Post by member »

I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
pointyhead
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by pointyhead »

I read an article last year that listed Petroleum Engineering as a high paying (80-100K) field right out of school. I'm not an engineer but that seemed to be a good field that would still allow one to live in a low cost area also. Good luck with your search!

PH
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CaliJim
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by CaliJim »

member wrote:I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
(BTW: Jealousy is fear of losing something you have. Envy is what you are talking about.)

Nothing wrong with being ambitious, but do it for the right reasons. Greed and envy are not the right reasons.

Do you have a defined benefit plan as part of your government job? Don't underestimate the value of a good government pension.

Some engineering positions lack job security. Quality of life in the Bay Area may not hold a candle to what you already have. Money isn't everything. Just saying.

My BIL and I are both retired now. I worked in the Bay Area and made bank. He worked as a meat cutter, didn't make bank, and lived in a rural area. All I can say is he is a great guy, knows how to have a good time, and I am envious of him sometimes.

What are you good at? What do you enjoy? How Can you make a bigger contribution to society?
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bogleblitz
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by bogleblitz »

I'm a computer programmer so don't be envious. I'm envy of my cousins who live paycheck to paycheck but party every weekend.

A computer programmer can make up to 100k in a low cost of living area or 150-200k in the bay area. What ever you study, make sure you have a passion for it. Don't go just for the money or you'll hate your job everyday.
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rob
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by rob »

Just to add... don't compare raw dollars......200K in the Bay area is prob not much different from something far less in a low cost of living area.... If you really must know google sites that try to adjust for cost of living in various areas BUT the whole comparason is just a loser.....
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

member wrote:I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
Do you really think making more money means more disposable income?
Let's take a look at your own words - We make $95K and live in a low cost of living area. Now, your friends make slightly more than double but live in a very high cost of living area - who do you think goes home with more? It's not what you make, it's what you keep. Now, you want to go back to school to earn a higher income - admirable, but at what cost? Who will pay the mortgage if you go back to school full time? How will you pay for advanced schooling? with cash or with loans? While you are in school you will have little to no income coming in - let's say it's 2 years of forgone income, followed by a search for employment that may or may not be fruitful - so already you are a minimum of $200K in the hole, without considering student loans. Whatever you decide to major in, make sure (and don't depend on an anonymous internet forum to make the decision for you as career prospects can change - just ask those who got hired at $100+ barrel oil and now it's down to $60 a barrel how their "luck" may be changing) it will pay you back enough over time to make up for the costs - both explicit and implicit.
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obgyn65
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by obgyn65 »

At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
"The two most important days in someone's life are the day that they are born and the day they discover why." -John Maxwell
hmw
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by hmw »

pointyhead wrote:I read an article last year that listed Petroleum Engineering as a high paying (80-100K) field right out of school. I'm not an engineer but that seemed to be a good field that would still allow one to live in a low cost area also. Good luck with your search!

PH
My parents retired from the oil biz. From what I have heard, Petroleum engineers have the highest income among engineers but they are prone to long periods of unemployment or under-employment due to the cyclic nature of the oil biz. I have heard about fresh grads making over 100k a few years ago but it can be hard finding a job now if the oil prices stays low.

Back to OP's question, it's hard to give advice not knowing your educational background/interests.
jstrazzere
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by jstrazzere »

member wrote:I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
Sounds like you should study Engineering and Pharmacy so you can be more like your friends!

Seriously though, nobody here can really advise you on a field of study. You need to think long and hard about what you like, what you don't like, what you are good at, and where you want to be in life. I find that the happiest people are those who are working in something they truly enjoy, not those who are making the most money.

And, you need to stop comparing yourself to your friends. Learn to be happy with who you are, not with how you compare to others. Otherwise, you'll always find someone who has more money, and you'll always be jealous and unhappy.
TomTX
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by TomTX »

pointyhead wrote:I read an article last year that listed Petroleum Engineering as a high paying (80-100K) field right out of school. I'm not an engineer but that seemed to be a good field that would still allow one to live in a low cost area also. Good luck with your search!

PH
Sure, graduating as a petroleum engineer was great last year. Right now, most of the recent grads are looking at severance packages, or will be shortly. There is an oil glut. This happens with every oil boom. :oops:

On th bright side, by the time you graduate it might be on the upswing again for the USA due to LNG export terminals coming online. :sharebeer Global NG demand is quite high, but exporting is problematic, requiring multi-billion dollar infrastructure* for a decent sized terminal. It's a bit optimistic - I'm pretty sure Cheniere will be in full swing for their first by then, not sure about anything else.

*You have to liquefy the natural gas to export it on tankers, which reqires simply enormous amounts of chilling/compressing.
Liberty1100
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Liberty1100 »

As a recent college graduate, it isn't the degree that matters, but the experience.

I studied Mechanical Engineering and got great grades. Just about every job posting prefers more experience than just a degree.


So things you could think about:
1) Go from government to the public sector. Usually you can find what you are doing for the government and find a better paying job for another employer. Some employers may even pay for you to further education.
2) Further your knowledge in your current job. I am not sure what kind of government employee you are, but maybe you should get a degree, certification, or just a handful of classes that would provide you with more knowledge into your specialty. The very least, it would make you a little more valuable.
health teacher
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by health teacher »

Are you envious of the salary figure? Friends' houses, cars, debt, steak dinners?

It seems like you have a great deal of disposable income. What exactly are you looking for?
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

I think you may be not fully appreciating the difference in cost of living. $200k may very well have less purchasing power than $100k in many other places. Housing cost are very high in the Bay Area. It is commonplace for small homes to be listed for sale above $1 million. Rents are shockingly high also. Additionally, the first $100k of income is taxed fairly lightly in comparison to the 2nd $100k so an income of $200k is not exactly double that of $100k either. Rather than focusing on the dollar amount earned, look at purchasing power.

More importantly, it doesn't do much good to compare yourself to others in terms of wealth and income. There will always be people with more. Spend time figuring out what type of work you enjoy doing, do that as well as you can, save enough for your future, and enjoy your life. Looking at others' incomes has the potential of getting in the way of that.
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dodecahedron
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by dodecahedron »

Ron Ronnerson wrote:I think you may be not fully appreciating the difference in cost of living. $200k may very well have less purchasing power than $100k in many other places. Housing cost are very high in the Bay Area. It is commonplace for small homes to be listed for sale above $1 million. Rents are shockingly high also. Additionally, the first $100k of income is taxed fairly lightly in comparison to the 2nd $100k so an income of $200k is not exactly double that of $100k either. Rather than focusing on the dollar amount earned, look at purchasing power.

More importantly, it doesn't do much good to compare yourself to others in terms of wealth and income. There will always be people with more. Spend time figuring out what type of work you enjoy doing, do that as well as you can, save enough for your future, and enjoy your life. Looking at others' incomes has the potential of getting in the way of that.
Also consider quality of life. My late husband and I moved to this area (upstate NY) from a high cost of living big city over 25 years ago. Not only has our cost of living been much lower here, there is far less traffic and congestion, short and relatively pleasant commute times, cleaner air, beautiful mountain views nearby, cows contentedly grazing just a 10 minute walk away, old growth forest in a nature preserve at the end of my street, low crime rates, and many other amenities we did not have when we lived and worked in a place where salaries and cost of living were higher. Think about all the amenities you might have to give up before you forsake your current way of life. My husband died tragically young (at 59) but given his family history I think he might not have lived as long as he did if we had stayed in the high stress area where we previously lived.
hicabob
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by hicabob »

dodecahedron wrote:
Ron Ronnerson wrote:I think you may be not fully appreciating the difference in cost of living. $200k may very well have less purchasing power than $100k in many other places. Housing cost are very high in the Bay Area. It is commonplace for small homes to be listed for sale above $1 million. Rents are shockingly high also. Additionally, the first $100k of income is taxed fairly lightly in comparison to the 2nd $100k so an income of $200k is not exactly double that of $100k either. Rather than focusing on the dollar amount earned, look at purchasing power.

More importantly, it doesn't do much good to compare yourself to others in terms of wealth and income. There will always be people with more. Spend time figuring out what type of work you enjoy doing, do that as well as you can, save enough for your future, and enjoy your life. Looking at others' incomes has the potential of getting in the way of that.
Also consider quality of life. My late husband and I moved to this area (upstate NY) from a high cost of living big city over 25 years ago. Not only has our cost of living been much lower here, there is far less traffic and congestion, short and relatively pleasant commute times, cleaner air, beautiful mountain views nearby, cows contentedly grazing just a 10 minute walk away, old growth forest in a nature preserve at the end of my street, low crime rates, and many other amenities we did not have when we lived and worked in a place where salaries and cost of living were higher. Think about all the amenities you might have to give up before you forsake your current way of life. My husband died tragically young (at 59) but given his family history I think he might not have lived as long as he did if we had stayed in the high stress area where we previously lived.

My sister lives in upstate NY, Finger Lakes region and other than cost of a house I didn't see much evidence of lower cost of living than the SF Bay Area. Food - same, fuel - same, taxes - higher or same, housing 1/4 the price.
stoptothink
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by stoptothink »

member wrote:I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
I am the same age, medium cost of living area, and our household income isn't that much more than yours (~$130ish). I am a director-level employee in a large non-profit, my wife is in IT security sales. She'll be working very part-time soon or possibly not at all, for probably 3yrs, because we are having our 2nd child in the spring and she'll stay home at very minimum 3-days/week with the kids - so our household income is likely to be similar to yours for a while. Whatever you do, don't pursue public health, that's what my PhD is in and I have hit the glass ceiling as far as salary in the industry and it isn't THAT much more than you make. My wife, on the other hand, does not have a college degree, but only makes slightly less than me and has a much higher ceiling. She has a skill, sales, which can make you good money in a million different industries, without any experience or education. I'd think long and hard about pursuing more education as a means to making more money, it could just as easy put you in a hole.

I'll add on to what a few others have said, your situation is pretty darn good. My brothers alone both make more than my wife and I combined, and they have working spouses; being in California, it appears to me that their quality of life is actually worse than ours despite the income discrepancy.
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SmileyFace
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by SmileyFace »

You didn't mention your interests and what type of job you currently have as a government employee. That could dictate what direction you want to consider. But also consider that base salary isn't everything:
1) Most government jobs have a bit less stress and are a bit more slower paced than similar private-sector jobs (I may get blasted for this - but I've done both - there can be a huge difference). You may be trading a higher salary for a different lifestyle than you have today. You may have to work longer hours, etc. once you leave the government job. Government employees tend to work set 8 hour work-days - not the case in many private sector jobs.
2) Look at your total benefits package. As a government employee you may have much better benefits (more vacation time, better insurance coverage, etc.) than you can get in the private sector. You should take this into account.
MindBogler
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by MindBogler »

obgyn65 wrote:At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
This is horrible advice for several reasons. First, look at the AAMC admission statistics sorted by age at matriculation. Over 30 is somewhere between 95th and 99th percentile for acceptance for a data series with a mean age of 24 and an approximately normal distribution. With a prior college degree it will take 2 years minimum as a full time student to complete the science prerequisites for medical school application. Some schools have accelerated programs for this which also excel at removing money from one's wallet. Second, at the age of 30 and given the cost of medical school applications and tuition, the break even point for where the decision begins making more money than staying the course at one's current job can be significant. Consider:

-Loss of income for 4-6 years
-Full or partial inability to fund retirement accounts, loss of compounding, etc.
-Residents income for 3 years
-Tuition
-Interest on loans for tuition
-No guarantee of: timely admission (if at all), graduation, licensing or specialty

I've performed this analysis in the past given a current income and an assumption of a specialty and came up with break even points on the order of 15-18 years for my situation. The only reason for someone to go to medical school after they are 30 is because it is something they are passionate about. Don't go to medical school for the money ever, but particularly when you are at an advanced age compared to the applicant pool.
Johno
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Johno »

hicabob wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:
Ron Ronnerson wrote:I think you may be not fully appreciating the difference in cost of living.
Also consider quality of life. My late husband and I moved to this area (upstate NY) from a high cost of living big city over 25 years ago.

My sister lives in upstate NY, Finger Lakes region and other than cost of a house I didn't see much evidence of lower cost of living than the SF Bay Area. Food - same, fuel - same, taxes - higher or same, housing 1/4 the price.
I agree, people tend to exaggerate the difference in cost of living besides housing, though that can be important in itself. Also some places have much lower taxes than others but NY state isn't one of them. And in cold 'low cost' areas winter heating can be a significant cost burden to non-well off people.

The impact of the higher income/higher cost area v lower income/lower cost area also depends on the absolute income. Even in SF or NY areas if you make enough you can save a lot more absolute $'s than in most lost cost areas which are low cost (in real estate particularly) in large part because there are a lot fewer high paying jobs, especially when you start talking very high paying jobs. And then eventually a $ saved is a $ saved no matter where you live, and even a high cost house is either a wash v a low cost one if you've paid it and live in it, and a benefit if you then want to sell it and move somewhere cheaper in retirement.

I wonder though what it is with this forum and San Francisco. The SF area population is around 7 mil or ~2% of the US population, but seems like a way higher than 2% of the people on this forum even though it includes some not from the US, and used as example of high cost much more than the NY area which is almost three times the population of the Bay Area.

On the main question, I don't have any direct suggestion, but good to see somebody thinking about how to make more money. It's seldom easy and not necessarily possible, but there's a real limit to how much you can cheap skate your way to wealth on a low income. Making a lot of money is the driving factor in becoming rich (as long as you don't waste it), which might seem obvious but reading this forum sometimes you might doubt it. :D
Last edited by Johno on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Remember that a person's apparent lifestyle may not be indicative of their financial health or personal fulfillment. Living beneath one's means is key, not income. Contentment in life cannot be purchased with dollars.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
Miakis
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Miakis »

The combined loss of income for four years probably isn't worth it - no matter how you slice it.

What are your current degrees in?
hiddensee
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by hiddensee »

member wrote:I'm 33 and government employee. I make 45k a year and my SO makes 50k a year. We live in a low cost of living area. Most of our friends are making a lot more and living in the Bay Area. I'm talking about 200k or more for 2 people household. I have an office job and SO is in retails. We are not poor or anything but I do get jealous sometimes. My SO and I are talking about going back to school to make more money but we just don't know what to study. Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists. The good thing for us is we have no debt except the mortgage. What should we study?
You would probably be worse off paying their taxes and property prices even without the additional debt and risk of retraining and still failing to get a job there. Do you really want to live in SF? Or just want to be one of the cool kids?
basspond
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by basspond »

member wrote:What should we study?
Whatever is your passion that can be turned into income. Other than that study what the people on this forum do. Save, keep out of debt, maintain a lifestyle below your means and long term investing strategies.
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midareff
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by midareff »

Masters in Public administration for you and Pharmacy for her.
jridger2011
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by jridger2011 »

It is important to figure out what you can realistically do given the time involved. Both engineering and pharmacy take an enormous amount of time to study, which is why they pay more than other occupations. If you both work full-time, there is only so much studying you can do after work and on weekends, unless one person quits working, completes his/her degree and the other works.
robert88
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by robert88 »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Do you really think making more money means more disposable income?
Let's take a look at your own words - We make $95K and live in a low cost of living area. Now, your friends make slightly more than double but live in a very high cost of living area - who do you think goes home with more?
The friends who make $200k by a long shot.
robert88
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by robert88 »

obgyn65 wrote:At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
If I could do it all over again, I would definitely be a doctor, but I wonder if he could really get a good ROI at his age. If he lacks the pre-requisites, he might be 42 or 43 by the time he finishes residency.
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dodecahedron
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by dodecahedron »

Johno wrote:
hicabob wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:
Ron Ronnerson wrote:I think you may be not fully appreciating the difference in cost of living.
Also consider quality of life. My late husband and I moved to this area (upstate NY) from a high cost of living big city over 25 years ago.

My sister lives in upstate NY, Finger Lakes region and other than cost of a house I didn't see much evidence of lower cost of living than the SF Bay Area. Food - same, fuel - same, taxes - higher or same, housing 1/4 the price.
I agree, people tend to exaggerate the difference in cost of living besides housing, though that can be important in itself. Also some places have much lower taxes than others but NY state isn't one of them. And in cold 'low cost' areas winter heating can be a significant cost burden to non-well off people.
I agree that there are components of my cost of living here (primarily property taxes!) that are high here, and other areas (like groceries and fuel) that are comparable but the housing differential is so huge it dwarfs pretty much everything else. Utility bills are pretty much a wash or better (we may spend more on heating but we spend much less on AC).

But the housing price differential is huge. It would cost me 10 times the market value of my current home to replicate it in Cambridge MA (where we used to live.) Even a tiny one bedroom condo in a not so great neighborhood in Cambridge would cost twice what my large private home cost here. Also auto and homeowners insurance rates are much higher back in Cambridge than here. (Less traffic contestion = less accidents, apparently. Also lower crime = lower rates.) Professional fees (lawyers, doctors) and health insurance to pay for medical services are also more reasonable here because the providers' housing and office rental costs are lower here. Nice restaurants here cost less because their rents are lower (and their employees' and owners' housing costs are lower.) And being able to afford well-located nice housing means very short commutes and relatively little driving/commuting costs. Also we have access to excellent public services including low cost graduate classes at a nearby research university and free public transit.

But really, it is a highly individual analysis. The OP's area may or may not offer the low cost amenities that he and his wife may or may not value as I do mine. But it is worth doing the kind of careful analysis my husband and I did when we chose to move here 25 years ago.
leonard
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by leonard »

Why are you assuming you have to school to make more money?

What's your current area of expertise? What's your current degree - if you have one?
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Watty
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Watty »

Our friends are Engineers and Pharmacists
There has also been a lot of movement for filling prescriptions through the mail or even with home delivery a few hours after a prescription is written. There are a lot of levels of pharmacists but for the typical pharmacist at the corner chain drug store or grocery store I suspect that their job will be much different 10 or 20 years from now as more automation becomes accepted.

I'm 33 and government employee.
You also may have a government pension that might allow for earlier retirement and a second career. This can be both a blessing and a curse since changing careers after years of work in the pension plan could also mean giving up a government pension. If so then one of the first things I would look at is what sort training would get you a better position as a government employee under the same pension plan.

TomTX wrote:
pointyhead wrote:I read an article last year that listed Petroleum Engineering as a high paying (80-100K) field right out of school. I'm not an engineer but that seemed to be a good field that would still allow one to live in a low cost area also. Good luck with your search!

PH
Sure, graduating as a petroleum engineer was great last year. Right now, most of the recent grads are looking at severance packages, or will be shortly. There is an oil glut. This happens with every oil boom. :oops:
Many of them also get to work in some "interesting" places.
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obgyn65
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by obgyn65 »

Not sure what is so "horrible" about my advice. I know many MDs, DOs, NPs and PAs who started medicine in their mid 30s. And yes, some of those I know are in medicine to make money. The OP can also become a CRNA in 5 years with much less debt, if any. In 5 years' time, with inflation increases, top CRNAs will make $250k. Of course, if the OP faints when seeing a drop of blood, then forget medicine altogether. Anyway, it's ok to disagree. :happy
MindBogler wrote:
obgyn65 wrote:At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
This is horrible advice for several reasons.
.
"The two most important days in someone's life are the day that they are born and the day they discover why." -John Maxwell
stoptothink
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by stoptothink »

obgyn65 wrote:Not sure what is so "horrible" about my advice. I know many MDs, DOs, NPs and PAs who started medicine in their mid 30s. And yes, some of those I know are in medicine to make money. The OP can also become a CRNA in 5 years with much less debt, if any. In 5 years' time, with inflation increases, top CRNAs will make $250k. Of course, if the OP faints when seeing a drop of blood, then forget medicine altogether. Anyway, it's ok to disagree. :happy
MindBogler wrote:
obgyn65 wrote:At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
This is horrible advice for several reasons.
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I'm sure they also were in med school when it wasn't as expensive as it is now and at a time when there was more certainty about the industry. I have a few friends my age (same age as the OP, 33) just starting or even trying to get into med school; crazy to think they'll be 40 before they are actually making money, several hundred thousand in debt, having given up several years of income/growth/saving in their current field, and facing a changing industry. Crunch the numbers, it's crazy now at that age unless you are truly passionate about it.

Now, becoming a CRNA, if they can do it with little or no debt as you say (I have no clue) - that sounds like a viable option.

I'm with a lot of others, more than likely more education isn't the answer. I am the only one of 6 directors in my organization (~350 employees) with a PhD, two others have graduate degrees, while the other three just have undergrad degrees. The person I replaced only had an undergrad and I am pretty certain I could have gotten the job without my MS and PhD. Our CEO and COO, just undergrad degrees. I don't regret my graduate degrees, but from a purely financial perspective they were a terrible decision. Probably better of exploring private industry opportunities or focusing on skills you can learn without going back to school.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by MindBogler »

stoptothink wrote:I'm sure they also were in med school when it wasn't as expensive as it is now and at a time when there was more certainty about the industry. I have a few friends my age (same age as the OP, 33) just starting or even trying to get into med school; crazy to think they'll be 40 before they are actually making money, several hundred thousand in debt, having given up several years of income/growth/saving in their current field, and facing a changing industry. Crunch the numbers, it's crazy now at that age unless you are truly passionate about it.

Now, becoming a CRNA, if they can do it with little or no debt as you say (I have no clue) - that sounds like a viable option.
I totally agree with the above (emphasis mine). I'm not trying to be rude but I think it is borderline naivete to point people over 30 towards a medical career without understanding the difficulties involved. It is not easy, and pointing out the exceptions doesn't change the rule.
DoubleDraw
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by DoubleDraw »

Learn how to code or a skill that is in high demand like sql or graphic design. In most positions the hiring manager won't care what education you have but rather what you have done or what you know. There are a ton of free online classes for learning these skills that you can take in your free time.
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CaliJim
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by CaliJim »

The OP has not responded. I think we've overwhelmed him with our generous advice! :?:
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goodenyou
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by goodenyou »

MindBogler wrote:
obgyn65 wrote:At 33, you can still go to medical school, or nursing school - CRNAs for example make good money, like $100k-$200k. Need to take all pre-requisite classes though.
This is horrible advice for several reasons. First, look at the AAMC admission statistics sorted by age at matriculation. Over 30 is somewhere between 95th and 99th percentile for acceptance for a data series with a mean age of 24 and an approximately normal distribution. With a prior college degree it will take 2 years minimum as a full time student to complete the science prerequisites for medical school application. Some schools have accelerated programs for this which also excel at removing money from one's wallet. Second, at the age of 30 and given the cost of medical school applications and tuition, the break even point for where the decision begins making more money than staying the course at one's current job can be significant. Consider:

-Loss of income for 4-6 years
-Full or partial inability to fund retirement accounts, loss of compounding, etc.
-Residents income for 3 years
-Tuition
-Interest on loans for tuition
-No guarantee of: timely admission (if at all), graduation, licensing or specialty

I've performed this analysis in the past given a current income and an assumption of a specialty and came up with break even points on the order of 15-18 years for my situation. The only reason for someone to go to medical school after they are 30 is because it is something they are passionate about. Don't go to medical school for the money ever, but particularly when you are at an advanced age compared to the applicant pool.
Mind:
I absolutely agree with your analysis. I wouldn't go into medicine in my 20s, especially if I had to pay over $300k for my education just for medical school. Unless you know you will like a high paying specialty and can get into one AND it will continue to be a high paying specialty (unlikely), it is not worth the time, effort, cost and stress. There is a reason that the overwhelming majority of physicians would not encourage their kids to go into medicine (poster included) nor would they do it over again, if given the choice.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by mathwhiz »

It all depends on how low of a cost of living and your median housing prices. I'd argue that if you have a household income of $95k and you can buy a nice home for $200k that you are in much better shape than living in the Bay Area making $200k in household income where median homes go for $1 million. Not to mention less stress and more job security in a government job.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by member »

We thought about being pharmacist or software developer. There are a few schools that we can do online. Neither of us have degrees.
Last edited by member on Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
surfstar
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by surfstar »

OP - not "how", but "WHY"?

Time is money. What would you rather have more of?

Gov't employees have it pretty good and I think I get way more free time than any one of my privately employed friends, no matter what their income level is.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by sgrapevine »

Car Sales. I sell new cars in a competitive market. I have a high school education, didn't have any sales experience, and was on the floor selling within a couple weeks of being hired. I make 85k-95k per year. Management and Finance clear 150k/year for any mid-market manufacturer.

ETA: Be sure to have a thick skin, the tolerance for weeks of failure at a time, and that you're impervious to crassness and cursing.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by mathwhiz »

You don't need a degree to do sales. The right type of personality is more important. It's almost heresy to say this on this board but you could get licensed and consider insurance and financial services/advisory. Income potential is huge.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by BolderBoy »

obgyn65 wrote:Not sure what is so "horrible" about my advice. I know many MDs, DOs, NPs and PAs who started medicine in their mid 30s. And yes, some of those I know are in medicine to make money. The OP can also become a CRNA in 5 years with much less debt, if any. In 5 years' time, with inflation increases, top CRNAs will make $250k. Of course, if the OP faints when seeing a drop of blood, then forget medicine altogether. Anyway, it's ok to disagree. :happy
With specific reference to CRNAs, it is far, far tougher to get into CRNA school than medical school based on sheer numbers of applicants vs available slots. In 1992 CRNA school was 1:36 spots vs applicants. It has only gotten worse. Medical school is about 1:4-5. Next is the debt load - the universities have gotten wise to "value" of being a CRNA and tuitions/fees are wretched. I know of a recent (3 years ago) grad who has $170k in student loan debt getting her CRNA. Also doing it for the $$$ is a terrible idea - there are plenty of CRNAs who absolutely hate the work, but are addicted to the money...and their patient care shows it!

Also, as more states authorize "Anesthesia Assistant" practice and more AA schools open, the competition for non-physician anesthesia jobs will get rougher.

The old days when there were 100 jobs for every CRNA are long, long gone.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by BolderBoy »

member wrote:We thought about being pharmacist or software developer. There are a few schools that we can do online. Neither of us have degrees.
Then most high paying healthcare occupations would be a waste of time for you. Financially there is little chance you could ever catch up since you'd be well into your 40s before entering the workforce at the lowest salaries in the range and with the debt load to pay off there is no way I'd go that route at this point in your lives.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by leonard »

sgrapevine wrote:Car Sales. I sell new cars in a competitive market. I have a high school education, didn't have any sales experience, and was on the floor selling within a couple weeks of being hired. I make 85k-95k per year. Management and Finance clear 150k/year for any mid-market manufacturer.

ETA: Be sure to have a thick skin, the tolerance for weeks of failure at a time, and that you're impervious to crassness and cursing.
Car (and motorcycle) sales is a tough gig. You make 85-95k a year.

But, what do your coworkers make - particularly in their first year? What's the rate of turnover for sales people at your dealership? I think those 2 data points might point out more of the reality of going in to that line of work.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by leonard »

member wrote:We thought about being pharmacist or software developer. There are a few schools that we can do online. Neither of us have degrees.
What marketable skills DO you have currently? What are you currently employed doing?
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by sgrapevine »

leonard wrote:
sgrapevine wrote:Car Sales. I sell new cars in a competitive market. I have a high school education, didn't have any sales experience, and was on the floor selling within a couple weeks of being hired. I make 85k-95k per year. Management and Finance clear 150k/year for any mid-market manufacturer.

ETA: Be sure to have a thick skin, the tolerance for weeks of failure at a time, and that you're impervious to crassness and cursing.
Car (and motorcycle) sales is a tough gig. You make 85-95k a year.

But, what do your coworkers make - particularly in their first year? What's the rate of turnover for sales people at your dealership? I think those 2 data points might point out more of the reality of going in to that line of work.
I think our average salary for salespeople (new and used) is close to $80k. The median is probably closer to 67k-70k. Our top performer made close to 140k this year in the used department. There is a little less deviation (and deviance!) in he new car department, where our top performer made about 105k.

Turnover is indeed high, but not astronomical at medium-sized, family-owned dealerships of major mid-market manufacturers. (Honda and Toyota dealerships with some old dude's name on the front are probably the most likely candidates). In the last year we replaced two sales people from each department (of about 12 salespeople each). Lots of churn in the lower ranks, but if you make it your first six months, your life expectancy can really increase!

All of this being said, though: yes, sales is tough and requires 50-55 hours a week. They are very flexible hours with the capacity for two-hour lunches, breaks for doctor's appointments, virtually no limits on what you can and can't do or say. With all that in mind, it's really flexing those free hours that gets most folks in trouble: bringing your lunch and playing the numbers game (engage as many customers as possible at all times) like a good little boglehead reaps you large rewards.

ETA: I made 81k my first year. This is not normal, but if you spend time on this forum, there is a good chance that you will experience Big Fish Small Pond in terms of intellectual abilities and especially the ability to engage in long-term planning (a skill lacking in 99% of car salespeople).
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by Novine »

If you're a government employee in an office job, you're unlikely to get significantly higher pay without an appropriate degree because you won't be eligible for promotion or to transfer into positions that pay more. I can't speak for the retail sector but your SO is likely facing the same prospect. If higher pay and/or the ability to advance is important to you, pursuing additional education may make sense. But keep in mind that between the two of you, your combined income is likely to be in the top 25% of households in the US, which means even more if you're in a low cost area. Do you think more money is going to buy you more happiness? Making more money in a job you don't like or a field that doesn't interest you isn't going to work out long-term.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by HIinvestor »

Some jobs in the fed gov't will help pay for education. Ask your HR about whether this is available and the terms. Agree that figuring out your strengths is important. Is there a job in the fed gov't you want? what additional education do you need to apply for such a job?
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by generalzodschicken »

Not to kick a dead horse, but $200k for two people in the Bay Area is probably not something to envy. With cost of housing in the mix (much less everything else), you'd be FAR better off with $100k in a low-cost area.
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Re: How to make more money?

Post by jimp »

As a CRNA I agree with the above. Even though we don't worry about AAs. Being in health care I think a sales rep of some kind would be your best bet. The CRNA profession want strong providers devoted to patient care/anesthesia, not a big paycheck.
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