Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
This is a real story about my friend who is Senior Manager at his workplace. Recently he got a new boss and things have taken worst turn for him ever since.
New boss has puzzled strange communication method, very petty and always trying to put him down in front of the others. Here are some examples: Calling him to the office for a minute for a quick discussion then saying "not going to offer you to sit down, just help yourself if you would like to sit down, when he chose to stay standing, he demands that he sit down". Working directly with his team giving conflicting direction. In the sense , telling them it's ok if work does not get done, insists on work life balance and then telling him why it's not done. When he takes his team out for lunch, then boss asks my friend why he did not invite him and when my friend do invite at that moment, boss says he is busy. This situation is making him very frustrating and he is thinking of leaving a job.
He asked my advice and I am really not sure what to tell him. Does this behavior falls under discrimination? Other than last resort of finding new job what else my friend can do to deal with this situation?
Any advice would be appreciated.
New boss has puzzled strange communication method, very petty and always trying to put him down in front of the others. Here are some examples: Calling him to the office for a minute for a quick discussion then saying "not going to offer you to sit down, just help yourself if you would like to sit down, when he chose to stay standing, he demands that he sit down". Working directly with his team giving conflicting direction. In the sense , telling them it's ok if work does not get done, insists on work life balance and then telling him why it's not done. When he takes his team out for lunch, then boss asks my friend why he did not invite him and when my friend do invite at that moment, boss says he is busy. This situation is making him very frustrating and he is thinking of leaving a job.
He asked my advice and I am really not sure what to tell him. Does this behavior falls under discrimination? Other than last resort of finding new job what else my friend can do to deal with this situation?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
You should probably google https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=the+boss+from+hell and read any of the variety of anecdotes and advice that can be found there.
I cannot hypothesize what is going on with this particular boss.
I cannot hypothesize what is going on with this particular boss.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I determined 30 years ago that bosses weren't for me, never regretted.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Your friend asked for advice, but this is not really something you can give advice about. Everybody has had a bad boss at one time or another. There are many ways to solve the problem. Leaving the job is only one of them.
Be supportive and help your friend search for different approaches to managing this issue (as opposed to giving advice), but this is something your friend will have to work out on his own. "Managing this issue" may simply mean changing how he feels and reacts to his boss's poor behavior.
Be supportive and help your friend search for different approaches to managing this issue (as opposed to giving advice), but this is something your friend will have to work out on his own. "Managing this issue" may simply mean changing how he feels and reacts to his boss's poor behavior.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
The worst thing this person can do is let it fester and then have frustrations come out at bad times.
This person should sit down with the boss one on one and share how they feel about these situations. If that conversation goes poorly, then ask someone from HR to sit in on the next conversation. The key is to smile, take nothing personally, be modest, and convince everyone you are just trying to find a resolution for the good of the company and group. Confront it head on without any ego.
If none of that works, and the boss is a true disaster, then talk to HR or the bosses boss about changing groups. You say it like this: "I'm confident {boss's name} is doing a great job, but he and I just don't get along. I am committed to this company and would like to be considered for a different position if the opportunity presents itself."
I did everything above in my past and ended up with a big promotion because I demonstrated that I could handle adversity calmly and was upfront with people.
This person should sit down with the boss one on one and share how they feel about these situations. If that conversation goes poorly, then ask someone from HR to sit in on the next conversation. The key is to smile, take nothing personally, be modest, and convince everyone you are just trying to find a resolution for the good of the company and group. Confront it head on without any ego.
If none of that works, and the boss is a true disaster, then talk to HR or the bosses boss about changing groups. You say it like this: "I'm confident {boss's name} is doing a great job, but he and I just don't get along. I am committed to this company and would like to be considered for a different position if the opportunity presents itself."
I did everything above in my past and ended up with a big promotion because I demonstrated that I could handle adversity calmly and was upfront with people.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I've had a couple of bosses like that over the years. Lucky me. When the word was that the second one was going to take over our group, several people warned me about him. So it was generally known in the company that he was off kilter. Why he remained employed, I have no idea. Probably some political thing I knew nothing about. I wound up leaving both jobs for better ones, and with a sigh of relief.
It may be worth sticking it out for a few months, in case this boss gets reassigned or something. But if the boss has been in the company for some time, that's probably a waste of time. I'd float my resume.
Having now read jdilla1107's post, I can update and say that sounds good, but I did all that and got nowhere myself.
It may be worth sticking it out for a few months, in case this boss gets reassigned or something. But if the boss has been in the company for some time, that's probably a waste of time. I'd float my resume.
Having now read jdilla1107's post, I can update and say that sounds good, but I did all that and got nowhere myself.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
HR is not your friend.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I agree 100%. HR is there to protect the company, and is not a friend of the employee. However, if you can't convince someone in HR that your boss is the problem, then maybe you have to be honest with yourself and consider that you are (part) of the problem. Or more likely, maybe HR will help explain what the bosses problem with you really is.dgdevil wrote:HR is not your friend.
The key is go into this projecting an open mind by saying things like, "maybe I'm doing something wrong". Being humble goes a long way here.
If all this fails, then you have to start asking yourself if you can leave the job or not. Some people can't afford to and have to just put up with it. There are different tactics for that, but at least try to do something about it first. (while having a positive attitude about it.) If you let it fester, you start becoming negative and toxic and then you wind up being asked to leave or continually passed over.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Looks like it is time to move on. One boss can change everything. Start looking.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Being a bit flaky is not discrimination unless there is some reason believe that the boss is treating your friend differently because of their gender, race, religion, or some other protected class.passionit wrote:Does this behavior falls under discrimination?
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
It may be a surprise, but being a jerk as a boss is NOT illegal. EEOC is very specific what they call discrimination, i.e. age, sex, race, religion, etc... Verbal harassment is NOT one of them.
BTW, I am not seeing anything I would even break a sweat or a second thought over. The boss may be a jerk, but it isn't like he is throwing stuff at him. If I was him and he was seriously considering moving on just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. No guarantee there won't be a new boss as bad.
If anything it sounds like your friend has been lucky to have decent folks as bosses in the past if this is the type of stuff that his causing him to consider changing jobs.
Good luck.
BTW, I am not seeing anything I would even break a sweat or a second thought over. The boss may be a jerk, but it isn't like he is throwing stuff at him. If I was him and he was seriously considering moving on just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. No guarantee there won't be a new boss as bad.
If anything it sounds like your friend has been lucky to have decent folks as bosses in the past if this is the type of stuff that his causing him to consider changing jobs.
Good luck.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I've made the decision to leave each time this happened mainly because it takes HR really long to take action on a rotten apple. One time I managed to change groups all together. The insulting part is these rotten apples manage to get promoted by doing some things correctly. The grass isn't always greener, and even good jobs can suddenly turn bad due to this situation when a new boss is hired. Best to just move on since such a petty person will not be fair in performance reviews.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I would suggest your friend to have a sit down with the manager and be blunt about the situation. Explain that the manager's actions are unprofessional and unacceptable leading to negative impact in the workplace. Provide a list of said instances. If the manager doesnt change, send the said list and evidence of the 1:1 to HR.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
My own personal experience is that good employees outlast bad managers. Managers are a dime a dozen and move on at a great rate.
The other advice I have gleaned is that if you can't stand a bad manager the only real choice is to find a way to move. You might even be surprised how often the places you move to are fully aware of what is going on.
Oh, and the last advice is to what someone else said, which is that HR is not your friend. I would think long and hard before taking anything to the company. If you do take something to the company you need to have a specific offense by the manager based on clear cut company policy or law. Otherwise you are going to lose. What I have seen happen is that the manager will eventually get his, but it won't be by you taking it up with HR.
The other advice I have gleaned is that if you can't stand a bad manager the only real choice is to find a way to move. You might even be surprised how often the places you move to are fully aware of what is going on.
Oh, and the last advice is to what someone else said, which is that HR is not your friend. I would think long and hard before taking anything to the company. If you do take something to the company you need to have a specific offense by the manager based on clear cut company policy or law. Otherwise you are going to lose. What I have seen happen is that the manager will eventually get his, but it won't be by you taking it up with HR.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
And be prepared to get fired right after. US states are 'employment at will' so unless OP's friend is a visible minority I would be careful. Even women don't usually win the discrimination suits.harrychan wrote:I would suggest your friend to have a sit down with the manager and be blunt about the situation. Explain that the manager's actions are unprofessional and unacceptable leading to negative impact in the workplace. Provide a list of said instances. If the manager doesnt change, send the said list and evidence of the 1:1 to HR.
The moment the whiff of litigation or formal complaint comes up HR and legal move to defensive mode, with a view to get the employee out of there.
The time to vent is at your exit interview, when *you* are heading to another job.
Have all your ducks lined up, including if possible another job offer, before you have that conversation with your boss.
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Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
+1dbr wrote:My own personal experience is that good employees outlast bad managers. Managers are a dime a dozen and move on at a great rate.
The other advice I have gleaned is that if you can't stand a bad manager the only real choice is to find a way to move. You might even be surprised how often the places you move to are fully aware of what is going on.
Oh, and the last advice is to what someone else said, which is that HR is not your friend. I would think long and hard before taking anything to the company. If you do take something to the company you need to have a specific offense by the manager based on clear cut company policy or law. Otherwise you are going to lose. What I have seen happen is that the manager will eventually get his, but it won't be by you taking it up with HR.
It's either put up and shut up or get another job. This manager is a jerk, and that's not usually fixable-- in fact, probably his boss think's he/ she is doing a great job, they admire 'toughness' (aka bullying) in their subordinates (or they don't know, and probably don't care).
The manager is playing petty power games- -bullying. Probably learned that on some sports team, from their Dad, or in some book about power and management.
If OP's friend cannot stand it, they need to manage an internal transfer or an exit.
HR and legal's job is to protect the company NOT the employee.
Otherwise head down and grit teeth.
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Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
> HR is not your friend.
For sure.
However...their job is to keep the company out of trouble. HR will throw a supervisor overboard if he does stuff that is blatantly illegal. I mean REALLY illegal like sexually harrassing the staff or shouting that staff is a worthless (insert protected class of your choice). They will do nothing about incompetent, unfair, counterproductive or stupid management.
For sure.
However...their job is to keep the company out of trouble. HR will throw a supervisor overboard if he does stuff that is blatantly illegal. I mean REALLY illegal like sexually harrassing the staff or shouting that staff is a worthless (insert protected class of your choice). They will do nothing about incompetent, unfair, counterproductive or stupid management.
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Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
For what it's worth, sometimes the way to neutralize bullying is having a powerful personality/presence. I've had success with micromanagers or bullies by being frank, succinct, and factual. It depends on the culture of the company of course, but showing you can't be pushed around reduces their ability to walk all over you. They'll find someone else to play their games with as a result. This type of manager doesn't want to be in the limelight for anything negative and you can use this to your advantage.Valuethinker wrote:+1dbr wrote:My own personal experience is that good employees outlast bad managers. Managers are a dime a dozen and move on at a great rate.
The other advice I have gleaned is that if you can't stand a bad manager the only real choice is to find a way to move. You might even be surprised how often the places you move to are fully aware of what is going on.
Oh, and the last advice is to what someone else said, which is that HR is not your friend. I would think long and hard before taking anything to the company. If you do take something to the company you need to have a specific offense by the manager based on clear cut company policy or law. Otherwise you are going to lose. What I have seen happen is that the manager will eventually get his, but it won't be by you taking it up with HR.
It's either put up and shut up or get another job. This manager is a jerk, and that's not usually fixable-- in fact, probably his boss think's he/ she is doing a great job, they admire 'toughness' (aka bullying) in their subordinates (or they don't know, and probably don't care).
The manager is playing petty power games- -bullying. Probably learned that on some sports team, from their Dad, or in some book about power and management.
If OP's friend cannot stand it, they need to manage an internal transfer or an exit.
HR and legal's job is to protect the company NOT the employee.
Otherwise head down and grit teeth.
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Boss is a jerk. Not unique or even uncommon; also not illegal or illegally discriminatory.
Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Such a meeting will not end well.harrychan wrote:I would suggest your friend to have a sit down with the manager and be blunt about the situation. Explain that the manager's actions are unprofessional and unacceptable leading to negative impact in the workplace.
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
I think that some may have missed the part about the friend being a Senior Manager himself. In my experience, this is what the upper/middle management chain is like. It rolls downhill. Senior managers bully their lower managers on down the line. It's a culture at some companies. If the company is profitable, it just continues ad infinitum. But when things take a downturn, surprisingly, I have seen very upper managers get the ax. Like many have said, people like this make enemies, and what goes around comes around (sometimes) ...passionit wrote:This is a real story about my friend who is Senior Manager at his workplace. Recently he got a new boss and things have taken worst turn for him ever since.
New boss has puzzled strange communication method, very petty and always trying to put him down in front of the others. Here are some examples: Calling him to the office for a minute for a quick discussion then saying "not going to offer you to sit down, just help yourself if you would like to sit down, when he chose to stay standing, he demands that he sit down". Working directly with his team giving conflicting direction. In the sense , telling them it's ok if work does not get done, insists on work life balance and then telling him why it's not done. When he takes his team out for lunch, then boss asks my friend why he did not invite him and when my friend do invite at that moment, boss says he is busy. This situation is making him very frustrating and he is thinking of leaving a job.
He asked my advice and I am really not sure what to tell him. Does this behavior falls under discrimination? Other than last resort of finding new job what else my friend can do to deal with this situation?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Given the above, I totally agree that going to HR about a conflict between two upper managers isn't the right path. If he can't take it, then movement within the company or out of the company is probably the only option; however, he should do so at his own pace. Get the new job first, don't just bail out suddenly and dramatically.
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
+1 as well.dbr wrote:My own personal experience is that good employees outlast bad managers. Managers are a dime a dozen and move on at a great rate.
The other advice I have gleaned is that if you can't stand a bad manager the only real choice is to find a way to move. You might even be surprised how often the places you move to are fully aware of what is going on.
Oh, and the last advice is to what someone else said, which is that HR is not your friend. I would think long and hard before taking anything to the company. If you do take something to the company you need to have a specific offense by the manager based on clear cut company policy or law. Otherwise you are going to lose. What I have seen happen is that the manager will eventually get his, but it won't be by you taking it up with HR.
When I was in the private sector for a decade + and when not in a large company reported to (mostly) hard nosed tough old school businessmen. They were all business, no funny stuff, and led by example. Drove me crazy but I thank them for the lessons in life they impacted. My time in municipal government was different. Several manager's who could not tie their own shoe laces and a micro manager who habitually violated most of the principles of management. We had a number of confrontations and since there was nothing he was going to do he eventually had to just simply back off. He eventually moved on as his superiors caught on and his replacement was a good enough manager to let me run my section, providing support rather than interference. Fortunately my last 17 years (until retirement) were under her "supervision".
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
The last time i went to HR with an issue they forwarded my email to the manager i was making complaints about, as well as other managers in the group. Said manager approached me and accused me of playing games with him. I laughed, walked away, and as soon as my "retention bonus" was deposited in my bank account a couple months later, i quit.
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
The real motive maybe Boss is planning to bring his closest as sub-ordinate (under him).
This is very common in corp culture, when a director or VP moves it bring his team along with him.
This maybe a move to get OP friend out and bring his one in.
Move within company or move out.
This is very common in corp culture, when a director or VP moves it bring his team along with him.
This maybe a move to get OP friend out and bring his one in.
Move within company or move out.
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
It's really not unique at all. Unfortunately, many have to deal with stuff like this.passionit wrote:Unique Situation At workplace
Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
A few years ago I took some classes in engineering management at MIT Sloan. One of the instructors said something that has stuck with me: "People join a company and quit their boss". Sound like it's time to quit his boss, but I'm not in his shoes so I cannot say for certain.
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Re: Advise Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Lucky? So basically you're saying that this is something he should have to put up with just because he should feel lucky to have that job. It sounds like this is a decent guy, a hard working professional. Let's not be critical of the jerk of boss who should be mentoring his people, treating them with respect, teaching them, and setting a good example rather than subjecting them to a toxic/poisonous attitude that is counterproductive. Why do we as a society tolerate this toxic behavior in a so-called "professional" environment"?staythecourse wrote:BTW, I am not seeing anything I would even break a sweat or a second thought over. The boss may be a jerk, but it isn't like he is throwing stuff at him. If I was him and he was seriously considering moving on just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. No guarantee there won't be a new boss as bad.
If anything it sounds like your friend has been lucky to have decent folks as bosses in the past if this is the type of stuff that his causing him to consider changing jobs.
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Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
No. Being a mean boss doesn't fall under discrimination laws, at least not in the US.passionit wrote:Does this behavior falls under discrimination?
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Re: Advice Needed: Unique Situation At workplace
Isn't part of the pervasive problem, at least outside of professional services/consulting, that people are promoted on the merits of being effective executors? They start at the bottom and effectively move up the chain by executing proficiently and then, at some point, are expected to become strong leaders/people managers. Yet, for the duration of their career they've enjoyed success doing everything but that. Can we really put them at fault, especially when their subordinates aren't providing them upwards feedback? Ignorance is bliss.
I'm sure these ineffective leaders / people managers don't think they're doing anything wrong. They're simply managing in the same way their boss (who was also a good at executing tasks) managed them. Many of today's mid-level managers don't receive management training and the individuals responsible for reviewing their performance likely assess how they've execute tasks, not managed their people.
This realization, for me, didn't really occur until I left professional services/consulting. In professional services/consulting there were quite a few people that were not the most proficient at executing tasks, but were highly effective leaders / people managers / speakers. Since people are assets in the professional services/consulting, these people were put in positions where they could grow their people / grow their business / assemble high-performing teams / lead their people. Unfortunately, outside professional services/consulting, there are great leaders/people managers that never get their chance because they're being rated on their ability to execute.
My $.02
I'm sure these ineffective leaders / people managers don't think they're doing anything wrong. They're simply managing in the same way their boss (who was also a good at executing tasks) managed them. Many of today's mid-level managers don't receive management training and the individuals responsible for reviewing their performance likely assess how they've execute tasks, not managed their people.
This realization, for me, didn't really occur until I left professional services/consulting. In professional services/consulting there were quite a few people that were not the most proficient at executing tasks, but were highly effective leaders / people managers / speakers. Since people are assets in the professional services/consulting, these people were put in positions where they could grow their people / grow their business / assemble high-performing teams / lead their people. Unfortunately, outside professional services/consulting, there are great leaders/people managers that never get their chance because they're being rated on their ability to execute.
My $.02
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through