how am I doing?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
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bogledogle
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how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

Hey Bogleheads,

Long time lurker, and first time poster here. I always wonder how I am doing with my savings when compared to my peers in the California Bay Area. So here's goes all my financials:
Last edited by bogledogle on Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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goodenyou
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by goodenyou »

I will state the obvious. You have to cut down expenses. You live in a HCOLA and a HCTS (High Cost of Tax State). By my calculation you pay just OVER 50% of your income in taxes. You can look for a roommate (cut rent), but most importantly you are going to have to cut discretionary spending. You have illustrated why a 140,000 income doesn't go very far in some places in the US. Maybe you could move a lot more money into the bank that is paying 6-8% interest. That is a fantastic rate of return for a savings account. I would be very wary of real estate speculation. Thankfully, you don't have student loan debt like many of your peers.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “At 50, everyone has the face he deserves”
countofmc
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by countofmc »

I think you are doing fine.

As far as not being able to afford a home here (I live in the Bay Area as well), that seems more of a choice thing for you than a financial thing. That money sitting overseas would be a good down payment, and your income would be enough for a mortgage payment on something like a condo. But I'm guessing you want a house or want a place that's in a nice area (not East Bay or something). Which is fine. But my opinion is if you wanted to afford a home here, you could.

As far as what you can do to save more money, seems fairly simple. You spend 4600/month on various expenses. Even here in the Bay, I think there's some room to cut down. Especially with those 2000/month incidentals.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is that $32K loan for a car, $600 a month for 60 months. What was the need for such a car that a cheaper car could not accomplish? We as a whole practice LBYM to advance your financial goals - $600 a month is more than 10% of your after-tax earnings going to pay for a depreciating asset. We like to put our money in appreciating assets to get to the goal line faster. It's not the rest of your budget that is the bad news - it's the car payment!

P.S. Welcome to the forum! :wink:
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gkaplan
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by gkaplan »

What sticks out for me is the $2,000 a month for expenses.
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LifeLearner
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by LifeLearner »

I live in the Bay as well, and I'm younger than you and still living with housemates, so my rent is much cheaper than yours, but I get by on about 2400/mo -- and that's a liberal estimate. Ultimately, you're the only one that can make the decision as to whether you want to spend money now vs work less years, but the $2000 for extras seems like a lot.
peppers
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by peppers »

[quote="bogledogle"]Hey Bogleheads,

Long time lurker, and first time poster here. I always wonder how I am doing with my savings when compared to my peers in the California Bay Area. So here's goes all my financials:

Marital Status: Single, 31.5 Years your call
Yearly Income: ~140,000 ok
Take home: 5,800 Monthly hmmm
Cash in Checking & Savings: 25,000
Cash in Investment Accounts: 46,000 ( Need to invest or pay off car loan)
Car Loan: 32,650 @ 2.25% - $600 Monthly (Purchased 6 months ago) lose the loan
401K: 105,000 - all of it in Vanguard targeted fund 2050 fair enough
Cash out of country: 80,000 (Waiting to be invested in real estate, earns 6-8% in interest while sitting in the bank) currency?
Properties: 40K in real estate overseas (Now valued at 80K, expected to grow to 200 - 300K in 15 years) hope springs eternal


Here comes the bad part, my monthly expenses:

Rent: 1,800
Utilities: 200
Car Payment: 600 this is like being slowly sandpapered to death
Expenses: 2,000 (Includes groceries, gas, entertainment, eating out, car insurance, clothes .. pretty much everything) need expense diet

Welcome to the forum
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
zag00
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by zag00 »

Details on overseas bank...
Topic Author
bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

zimmer0 wrote:Details on overseas bank...
Money is in India. Check out the interest rates they give out on fixed deposits:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/fixed-incom ... -deposits/
Topic Author
bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

peppers wrote:
bogledogle wrote:
Car Payment: 600 this is like being slowly sandpapered to death

Welcome to the forum
ROFL ..... I know. I can't help it, I have the need for speed.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

LifeLearner wrote:I live in the Bay as well, and I'm younger than you and still living with housemates, so my rent is much cheaper than yours, but I get by on about 2400/mo -- and that's a liberal estimate. Ultimately, you're the only one that can make the decision as to whether you want to spend money now vs work less years, but the $2000 for extras seems like a lot.
Save as much as you can while you have roommates. I was able to save 50% of take home in those good old days.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

gkaplan wrote:What sticks out for me is the $2,000 a month for expenses.
I agree. I am working on fixing that.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

countofmc wrote:I think you are doing fine.

As far as not being able to afford a home here (I live in the Bay Area as well), that seems more of a choice thing for you than a financial thing. That money sitting overseas would be a good down payment, and your income would be enough for a mortgage payment on something like a condo. But I'm guessing you want a house or want a place that's in a nice area (not East Bay or something). Which is fine. But my opinion is if you wanted to afford a home here, you could.

As far as what you can do to save more money, seems fairly simple. You spend 4600/month on various expenses. Even here in the Bay, I think there's some room to cut down. Especially with those 2000/month incidentals.

I agree on the incidentals. It's not always 2000, its less than that for most months.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

goodenyou wrote: That is a fantastic rate of return for a savings account
I agree, it's a very good return, but bringing the money back is a problem because you have to declare it as income or inheritance. As long as the money stays outside the US, it's all good.
generalzodschicken
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by generalzodschicken »

If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
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bru
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bru »

Myself and many here wouldn't have that level of monthly expenses but if you take home $5800 the amount you are spending doesn't seem completely out of whack. At least you aren't spending more than you make. If you can reduce your expenses, all the better. But don't feel guilty that you spend some of the money you make.
countofmc
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by countofmc »

BTW, don't beat yourself up over the car loan. A lot of the frugal minded will tell you to purchase a used car for $5000, but when you are a young guy in your early 30s, who the heck wants to do that?

Let me guess, you bought come fun entry-level luxury car like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4 right? The alternative would have been buying some boring Accord (nothing against that, I drive one) or Camry and paying 300/month in payments instead of 600. That 300 per month is a drop in the bucket at this point, and can easily be made up from your 2000/month spending on other stuff.

Now, if your income doesn't go up drastically but you get into a new luxury car every 3 years habit, that might be a problem. But if this was one of those "I finally have some money" purchases that you plan on driving for a while, I don't see a problem with that at all.

Just relax, take stock of the fact that you have 6 figures in your retirement account AND 6 figures in cash. You are maxing your 401k. You are ahead of most people our age group. Way ahead. Enjoy life a little, just don't piss money away on stupid stuff like buying $200 jeans or something, and you'll be fine. And enjoy life.
cvaneuro
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by cvaneuro »

I am 32, had your income until very recently (literally until September) and also live in the Bay Area. If you choose to live alone, your rent for this area seems reasonable.
The biggest monthly losses are your speedster car and your unidentified "expenses"

If you must keep the car for the ladies, I would look at your other expenses and think about what to cut.

If you are looking for a comparison, I have about $150k in various retirement vehicles (Roth until my income was too high, then 401k and a roll over ira from prior job).
I don't have abroad investments but I did put down 90k of my own money for a home recently.

So in short, you are doing well but you can always do better! I hope this gives you motivation!
aceoperations
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by aceoperations »

If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
One of the reasons is currency exchange risk if you consider money held in overseas banks as part of your asset allocation. Fluctuations in currency rates can easily wipe out any gains you might have had or even put you under water on that savings bank account.
amoeba
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by amoeba »

bogledogle wrote:
zimmer0 wrote:Details on overseas bank...
Money is in India. Check out the interest rates they give out on fixed deposits:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/fixed-incom ... -deposits/
Its all in Rupees and not dollars so really meaningless. There is a reason interest rates are so high, its because there is massive inflation in India for the Rupee. Just look at dollar to Rupee conversion rates from 2010 to 2014.
jeronz
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by jeronz »

I wouldn't put money in foreign currency, especially in a developing nation's currency.

The reason the interest rate is so high is because of inflation.

" In November 2013, Indian inflation reached 11.24% " from http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/10251 ... ian-rupee/

The USD inflation rate is like 1-2%

also you have currency exchange risk.

In the past 10 years the exchange rate has gone from a low of 39 to a high of 65. That is a 40% differential, any remote possible benefits of a few percentage points can be easily wiped out. https://www.google.com/finance?q=USDINR

Thirdly, you can argue against doing it from an efficient markets hypothesis point of view. Any benefit has already been arbitraged away through the carry trade and forex trading

If you are so interested in foreign real estate it is would be much safer to invest in an international REIT fund.\

ADDIT: Regarding the 80k currently invested in foreign real estate: You say it will grow to 200-300k in 15 years. This may be a reasonable estimate, assuming 250k, this would be a rate of return of 8% annualised. If this is indian real estate, assuming the above inflation rate of 11.24%, you will have actually lost money by the 15 year mark in terms of US dollars. Go for the REIT funds.
Last edited by jeronz on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

generalzodschicken wrote:If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
Yes, there is a limitation. You can't, unless you hold an Indian passport or you are of Indian origin (I believe). I am sure there are ways around this, but you will be taxed when you bring your money back.
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Watty
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by Watty »

If you are not a US citizen and are likely to move out of the country either to work or retire then you really need to research the implications of having a lot of money in the 401K since there are all sorts of income tax and non-resident alien estate tax issues.

Having about half your net worth in overseas real estate is excessive from an asset allocation viewpoint, it would likely be best to not put any more money into international real estate.
DiMAn0684
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by DiMAn0684 »

generalzodschicken wrote:If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
As others have said, there're limitations. I'm not familiar with Indian banks, but I am somewhat familiar with Russian banking system. There're banks that pay over 5% APY on deposits in USD / EUR (quite a bit more on deposits in Rubles, but that comes with a much bigger set of risks). The real risk is that if the bank collapses it might be difficult to recover funds through deposit insurance system without Russian citizenship / passport. The insurance also maxes out at 700K Rubles (~$15k USD), so one would have to have quite a few accounts to make sure the funds are insured.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

Watty wrote:If you are not a US citizen and are likely to move out of the country either to work or retire then you really need to research the implications of having a lot of money in the 401K since there are all sorts of income tax and non-resident alien estate tax issues.

Having about half your net worth in overseas real estate is excessive from an asset allocation viewpoint, it would likely be best to not put any more money into international real estate.

Yes, there are some penalties but they are being sorted out. If I go back to India, I have a limited time when I can import my money tax free, either you can import the money then an face penalties or import later and face penalties in India. This is why half my money is parked in India - sent over tax free while I still can.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

DiMAn0684 wrote:
generalzodschicken wrote:If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
As others have said, there're limitations. I'm not familiar with Indian banks, but I am somewhat familiar with Russian banking system. There're banks that pay over 5% APY on deposits in USD / EUR (quite a bit more on deposits in Rubles, but that comes with a much bigger set of risks). The real risk is that if the bank collapses it might be difficult to recover funds through deposit insurance system without Russian citizenship / passport. The insurance also maxes out at 700K Rubles (~$15k USD), so one would have to have quite a few accounts to make sure the funds are insured.
Yeah, bank collapse is a real risk. But if I pick a state owned bank, the only risk is collapse of the rupee since the bank is owned by the country, and the country always prints more money :happy
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

cvaneuro wrote:I am 32, had your income until very recently (literally until September) and also live in the Bay Area. If you choose to live alone, your rent for this area seems reasonable.
The biggest monthly losses are your speedster car and your unidentified "expenses"

If you must keep the car for the ladies, I would look at your other expenses and think about what to cut.

If you are looking for a comparison, I have about $150k in various retirement vehicles (Roth until my income was too high, then 401k and a roll over ira from prior job).
I don't have abroad investments but I did put down 90k of my own money for a home recently.

So in short, you are doing well but you can always do better! I hope this gives you motivation!
:thumbsup
Topic Author
bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

countofmc wrote:BTW, don't beat yourself up over the car loan. A lot of the frugal minded will tell you to purchase a used car for $5000, but when you are a young guy in your early 30s, who the heck wants to do that?

Let me guess, you bought come fun entry-level luxury car like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4 right? The alternative would have been buying some boring Accord (nothing against that, I drive one) or Camry and paying 300/month in payments instead of 600. That 300 per month is a drop in the bucket at this point, and can easily be made up from your 2000/month spending on other stuff.

Now, if your income doesn't go up drastically but you get into a new luxury car every 3 years habit, that might be a problem. But if this was one of those "I finally have some money" purchases that you plan on driving for a while, I don't see a problem with that at all.

Just relax, take stock of the fact that you have 6 figures in your retirement account AND 6 figures in cash. You are maxing your 401k. You are ahead of most people our age group. Way ahead. Enjoy life a little, just don't piss money away on stupid stuff like buying $200 jeans or something, and you'll be fine. And enjoy life.

:thumbsup

It's more like a nice car every 6 - 7 years. I buy my jeans when there's a sale :happy
amoeba
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by amoeba »

bogledogle wrote:
DiMAn0684 wrote:
generalzodschicken wrote:If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
As others have said, there're limitations. I'm not familiar with Indian banks, but I am somewhat familiar with Russian banking system. There're banks that pay over 5% APY on deposits in USD / EUR (quite a bit more on deposits in Rubles, but that comes with a much bigger set of risks). The real risk is that if the bank collapses it might be difficult to recover funds through deposit insurance system without Russian citizenship / passport. The insurance also maxes out at 700K Rubles (~$15k USD), so one would have to have quite a few accounts to make sure the funds are insured.
Yeah, bank collapse is a real risk. But if I pick a state owned bank, the only risk is collapse of the rupee since the bank is owned by the country, and the country always prints more money :happy

This is not a good thing. You have to consider whether you will get more than 6% to 8% in Rupees by just holding on to the money in dollars.
slick_dealer_05
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by slick_dealer_05 »

bogledogle wrote:
generalzodschicken wrote:If you can get 8%+ guaranteed interest in an Indian bank, why am I not just dumping money into an Indian bank right now? Is there some other risk or limitation?
Yes, there is a limitation. You can't, unless you hold an Indian passport or you are of Indian origin (I believe). I am sure there are ways around this, but you will be taxed when you bring your money back.

OP, you have to pay taxes on foreign earned income every year. Even if the Indian bank isnt issuing a 1099-INT, you have to file it and pay taxes on earned interest evey year. In addition, since you have over 10K in the foreign account, you have to report FBAR to IRS. Not doing so is only asking for trouble and expensive tax attorneys few years down the line. Do not ignore this!
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in_reality
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by in_reality »

bogledogle wrote: how can I do better?
In the spirit of saving (in this case time), it's ok after thirty years of age to not count the months. You can safely write "a 31 year old" and save yourself a nano second of time!
madbrain
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by madbrain »

bogledogle wrote: Expenses: 2,000 (Includes groceries, gas, entertainment, eating out, car insurance, clothes .. pretty much everything)
Pretty much everything ? Where are taxes ? Isn't that your biggest expense ?
madbrain
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by madbrain »

bogledogle wrote:Hey Bogleheads,
Yearly Income: ~140,000
Take home: 5,800 Monthly
Something is wrong here.
Assuming standard deduction/single, yur total tax bill as single in California including federal income tax, Social security/Medicare, SDI and state taxes should be about $50k . This should leave you $90k or $7500 take-home monthly.
Where is the other $1700 going ?
You mentioned a 401k - you must be contributing, which would reduce your take-home. If you are contributing $17500 that would bring it down $1458 a month, but your taxes should also go down, so you should still have well over $6k .
Maybe the difference is for the cost of benefits. Or are you contributing anything to an ESPP post-tax perhaps ?
If so, you are doing better than it appears.
Rent: 1,800
Utilities: 200
Car Payment: 600
Expenses: 2,000 (Includes groceries, gas, entertainment, eating out, car insurance, clothes .. pretty much everything)
The expenses don't really seem out of line to me for the bay area, maybe the car loan is a bit high. But even buying a fully loaded Prius with $0 down would get you about a $550/monthly payment (don't ask how I know this). Ultimately, a car is a depreciating consumption item . Just try to keep the car for as long as possible - and pay off the loan when it makes sense.

I actually think the $2,000 is pretty good compared to what we spend, but of course there are two of us, a large house, more income, and less taxes (we are married).
Not sure you can really cut it down much further without making a lot of sacrifices like not eating out at all, never taking a vacation abroad, no cell or a basic cell phone for voice/text only, no cable TV, etc .

I would recommend tracking everything on 12 month period and averaging it out. You may be surprised.
Mint.com will help you - I haven't used it. I used quicken personally and track every transaction.
I think you can add car registration to the list of the mandatory expenses.

Your biggest expense is by far your payroll taxes. Getting married will reduce your income taxes depending on the spouse's income. Of course it may also come with a whole bunch of extra expenses too.

Buying a house will also reduce your taxable income. Of course you will have extra expenses as well. Ultimately, it may still be worth it.
You should have enough for a 20% downpayment on at least a condo or townhouse if you rapatriate some cash, or sell some of your foreign property.
It's up to you to do the math to see if this is worth it. I bought a townhome in the bay area when I was 21 precisely for the reason to cut my tax bill - and it has turned out well. The federal tax rate was higher in 1997 than they are now. I didn't have a $600 car payment though - I still used a bicycle back then. The mortgage was the first loan I ever got. I also had a much lower income than you do now.
For me the tax-adjusted cost of my 3BR/2.5ba townhome including mortgage + property taxes + HOA was about the same as the rent on my 1BR condo, so the math worked out. Home prices are more than double now, but interest rates are also less than half.
LongerPrimer
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by LongerPrimer »

IMO, not bad. Within the realm of good investment and money management.
Two issues that could change your financial position either for the better or worse: Getting married. Moving to a lower COL state.
GlassDoor, Zillow, LinkedIn are your closest friends. :mrgreen:
MathWizard
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by MathWizard »

You are doing great.

At the age of 31, you:
are maxing out a 401K,
are spending $1200/month less than take-home, and
have a net worth over a quarter of a million dollars

Your savings into the 401K plus the 1200/month you are not spending means that
you are saving $2,658/month, while spending $4,600.

You won't be able to support your lifestyle with what you have saved so far,
but few could say that at your age.
The car loan is at 2.25%, and you could easily pay it off, but I would not worry about it.
It looks like it is a 60 month loan, so in 4 1/2 years, it will be paid off.

I had a negative net worth at your age, and am doing fine now, I am sure you will be too.

The only thing I see you would have to worry about financially is job loss.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

LongerPrimer wrote:IMO, not bad. Within the realm of good investment and money management.
Two issues that could change your financial position either for the better or worse: Getting married. Moving to a lower COL state.
GlassDoor, Zillow, LinkedIn are your closest friends. :mrgreen:
Ha ... I am surely not getting marred for tax reasons, thats will end up being more expensive all said an done :D . I think moving is an option, maybe few years down the line.
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bogledogle
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Re: For a 31.5 year old single guy, how am I doing?

Post by bogledogle »

MathWizard wrote:
I had a negative net worth at your age, and am doing fine now, I am sure you will be too.

The only thing I see you would have to worry about financially is job loss.

That inspires confidence. Thanks.
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