lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

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montanagirl
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lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by montanagirl »

One year a long time ago, I put too much in my tIRA, and I remember filing an 8606 with my return. I didn't really understand the issue until now. I remember the amount was 600, but do not remember which trustee (I moved around and one was taken over by another, etc). I have tax returns going back 18 years and went through each one, still cannot find it!

It was sometime after my company got its 401k plan in 1998 and I proceeded to max out both.

I've already started my first Roth conversions without, thinking since this goes in the IRA's favor by leaving out my tiny basis, then it should not matter. But a tax prep guy says no, I need to account for it.

I'm sure it was over 3 years ago, what do I do?
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Write to the IRS for a copy of your filed income tax return for the year in question. They should send you a copy of your entire return, including the missing Form 8606. Problem solved, don't worry.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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montanagirl
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by montanagirl »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:Write to the IRS for a copy of your filed income tax return for the year in question. They should send you a copy of your entire return, including the missing Form 8606. Problem solved, don't worry.
I don't know the year...it was 8-15 years ago
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BL
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by BL »

Does this mean you put in the max each year buy didn't deduct the max that year?

Maybe I have it all wrong, but it sounds like you have the tax returns so you need to look up what was the max each year and check to see which return is inconsistent with that (600 less).
Of course, if you didn't put the max in the other years, that is of no help!
Wikipedia has some of the limits and income limits since 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_IRA

On the other hand, I bet there are many who either didn't file or forgot they did, who simple didn't mention it to the tax preparer and thus just paid tax on it all if they converted to Roths. Maybe it is time to get a tax program and do your own taxes :twisted:
Last edited by BL on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
kaneohe
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by kaneohe »

BL wrote:Does this mean you put in the max each year buy didn't deduct the max that year?

Maybe I have it all wrong, but it sounds like you have the tax returns so you need to look up what was the max each year and check to see which return is inconsistent with that (600 less).
Of course, if you didn't put the max in the other years, that is of no help!

On the other hand, I bet there are many who either didn't file or forgot they did, who simple didn't mention it to the tax preparer and thus just paid tax on it all if they converted to Roths. Maybe it is time to get a tax program and do your own taxes :twisted:
if contribution was not the max, a more fearsome feat...........match for the 18 yrs, the amount deducted on 1040 with the amount contributed, the latter documented by 5498s or statements from various places where the contributions might have been made. Not sure I'd have the energy to attack this task but perhaps OP might.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

caroljm36 wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:Write to the IRS for a copy of your filed income tax return for the year in question. They should send you a copy of your entire return, including the missing Form 8606. Problem solved, don't worry.
I don't know the year...it was 8-15 years ago
Dear IRS:

I am writing to request a full copy of my Form 1040 filed with you for the tax years 1998 to 2007.
Please mail those copies to your mailing address of record.

Sincerely,
Joe Taxpayer

Problem solved!
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
pshonore
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by pshonore »

Good luck with that request. You can get a transcript (online) for the 2010 - 2013. I seriously doubt you can get a "copy" of anything much older.
Topic Author
montanagirl
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by montanagirl »

BL wrote:Does this mean you put in the max each year buy didn't deduct the max that year?

Maybe I have it all wrong, but it sounds like you have the tax returns so you need to look up what was the max each year and check to see which return is inconsistent with that (600 less).
Of course, if you didn't put the max in the other years, that is of no help!
Wikipedia has some of the limits and income limits since 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_IRA

On the other hand, I bet there are many who either didn't file or forgot they did, who simple didn't mention it to the tax preparer and thus just paid tax on it all if they converted to Roths. Maybe it is time to get a tax program and do your own taxes :twisted:
Uh, I have been doing my own taxes for 30 years at least.
Iorek
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by Iorek »

I don't really get why it matters. If you have a basis of $600 but claim no basis on withdrawal, what's the problem?
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BL
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by BL »

Iorek wrote:I don't really get why it matters. If you have a basis of $600 but claim no basis on withdrawal, what's the problem?
I don't either. You said you filed an 8606 years ago, so you complied with that.
Now you simply are not claiming that small reduction in taxes. As you said, it is not something that benefits you and I don't know that IRS requires you to claim it. (I know with capital gains, if you have no clue about basis you have to consider it zero.)

Your trustee (at that time) would have nothing to do with whether it was deductible or not.

IRS instructions for form 8606:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8606.pdf

You said:
One year a long time ago, I put too much in my tIRA
Did you actually put in the maximum allowed and that part of it was not deductible? Or did you move the excess to a Roth or just remove it the following year?
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montanagirl
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by montanagirl »

BL wrote:
Iorek wrote:I don't really get why it matters. If you have a basis of $600 but claim no basis on withdrawal, what's the problem?
I don't either. You said you filed an 8606 years ago, so you complied with that.
Now you simply are not claiming that small reduction in taxes. As you said, it is not something that benefits you and I don't know that IRS requires you to claim it. (I know with capital gains, if you have no clue about basis you have to consider it zero.)

Your trustee (at that time) would have nothing to do with whether it was deductible or not.

IRS instructions for form 8606:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8606.pdf

You said:
One year a long time ago, I put too much in my tIRA
Did you actually put in the maximum allowed and that part of it was not deductible? Or did you move the excess to a Roth or just remove it the following year?
I am pretty sure I put in the maximum and when I did my taxes realized it wasn't all being deducted. I called whoever the trustee was and they told me about doing an 8606. I didn't have a Roth until 2011 (thought it was for high income people) so there was nowhere else to go with it. I mentioned trustees because that's how foggy my memory is, I don't even know which one it was...could be VG, Wells Fargo, Strong. So I can't zero in on the year with reference to where the funds were at the time.

And yes I know, it's a small reduction of taxes in my favor if I find it, so I didn't think it was material to IRS if I included that basis. But I am being told that it is material. I'm still not so sure that's right.

At the time I did this, I KNEW this would happen.. :annoyed
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BL
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by BL »

IRA Contribution Limits

Tax Year Contribution Limit Age 49 & Below Catch-up Contribution Limit Age 50 & Above Contribution Limit Age 50 & Above
2002-2004 $3,000
2005 $4,000
2006-2007 $4,000
2008 $5,000
2009 $5,000
2010 $5,000
2011 $5,000
2012 $5,000
2013 $5,500
2014 $5,500
Maybe you can eliminate some years with the above list.
kaneohe
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by kaneohe »

I would guess that you can file w/o the 8606. If IRS has a problem w/ that , they will have to dig up the 8606 (if filed) and then you will have it.
Then do a 1040X and get your $5 back. The risk seems to be that if file w/o it, then years later find the 8606, you may lose that $600 basis because IRS doesn't want you cherry picking the years you use the basis.
Rodc
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by Rodc »

I am afraid you will have to move to Canada.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
Pizzasteve510
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by Pizzasteve510 »

Life with Terrance and Phillip is your fate!
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

caroljm36 wrote:
And yes I know, it's a small reduction of taxes in my favor if I find it, so I didn't think it was material to IRS if I included that basis. But I am being told that it is material. I'm still not so sure that's right.

At the time I did this, I KNEW this would happen.. :annoyed
I am not following this, but if the only effect is the mistake gives the government a small additional amount of money, I would kiss the money goodbye and act like this never happened. What are they going to do, sue you so that they can give you money? Put you in jail for overpaying?

If your tax guy is not happy with that, do your own taxes or get another tax guy. I would not necessarily mention this situation to the new tax guy. If you owed the government money, that would be a whole different matter.
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montanagirl
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Re: lost 8606 from years ago - am I in trouble?

Post by montanagirl »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:
caroljm36 wrote:
And yes I know, it's a small reduction of taxes in my favor if I find it, so I didn't think it was material to IRS if I included that basis. But I am being told that it is material. I'm still not so sure that's right.

At the time I did this, I KNEW this would happen.. :annoyed
I am not following this, but if the only effect is the mistake gives the government a small additional amount of money, I would kiss the money goodbye and act like this never happened. What are they going to do, sue you so that they can give you money? Put you in jail for overpaying?

If your tax guy is not happy with that, do your own taxes or get another tax guy. I would not necessarily mention this situation to the new tax guy. If you owed the government money, that would be a whole different matter.
he's not my tax guy, I do my own..anyway after going through all my returns once again, guess I'll punt.
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