Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
- Tortoise Banker
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
OP here.
Thanks gang.
Biggest takeaway for me is that these next few years will be a wild and joyful ride.
I'm humbled and grateful to have the opportunity. Wrote a letter to my future child today. This exercise made my initial concern of reducing retirement savings down to 401k match at work far less concerning.
Will surely have more questions for the board, and hopefully a success story of my own one day.
Ciao,
TB
Thanks gang.
Biggest takeaway for me is that these next few years will be a wild and joyful ride.
I'm humbled and grateful to have the opportunity. Wrote a letter to my future child today. This exercise made my initial concern of reducing retirement savings down to 401k match at work far less concerning.
Will surely have more questions for the board, and hopefully a success story of my own one day.
Ciao,
TB
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Excellent terms !!!VictoriaF wrote:How about Household Executive (HE) and Senior Household Executive (SHE)?nelson1015 wrote:I don't think the phrase "not-working" should get anyone up in arms. I am aware that we live in an ultra sensitive PC society, but c'mon. Those two words aren't offensive by themselves. I know what they can imply but that is really reaching.Naismith wrote:Is there a chance that perhaps we could please avoid referring to full-time parents as "not-working"? It isn't accurate (many work very hard!) and has negative connotations when people try to return to the workforce, seek medical care, or just have their work respected by those around them.
There are so many accurate terms that could be used: Not in the workforce...not earning a paycheck...not employed....
Victoria
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Of course it can be done - lots of people in this country live on less than that and don't have the option of a second income. But acknowledging that it's "not ideal" and "not impossible" is very different from your original statement that it is "easily attainable."PittPharmboy wrote:I would never suggest otherwise. However, it can be done and is not impossible. I'm not sure why the 40k cutoff was used but wanted to offer that in my experience, while not ideal, it can be done. Just trying to put a positive spin on a message board where the vast majority make significantly more than that!nelson1015 wrote:I doubt anyone has a lot of breathing room if they have a single income of 40k with a family. That is pretty much a given.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Every situation is different but if you are already frugal, you can make it work. I knew I wanted to stay home before kids and was always frugal. We just made it work with our first. A decade ago our total net worth was below $200 k. Now we are over $700 k and will probably hit a $1 million in our early 40s if not at 40. We could not save as much but trying to catch up now, saving 30 percent of gross income. Husband only hit 6 figures within the last 4 years. Our youngest has special needs, something we did not plan for obviously but being frugal and being at home makes the situation a lot better. We've had our stresses but husband has always been motivated and makes 2.5 x more than the beginning. I'm a stay at home parent who enjoys reviewing our finances in addition to maintaining the house, cooking, taking care of the kids, tutoring them etc. etc. I also have an Ivy League degree. This job is exhausting but my kids are happy. It has worked out for us.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Please re-read my posts as you're combining two comments I've made when they are just that: two separate comments. My original statement was that living on a single income may be "easily attainable" with appropriate planning and budgeting. Unless I missed the OP stating that they would be going to $40K/year, the "not ideal" and "not impossible" comments were responding to the $40K/year cutoff you provided.flyingbison wrote:Of course it can be done - lots of people in this country live on less than that and don't have the option of a second income. But acknowledging that it's "not ideal" and "not impossible" is very different from your original statement that it is "easily attainable."
Superb! I may print out business cards for my wife with that exact title for Christmas.nelson1015 wrote:Senior Vice President of Household Operations
To the OP, congrats again on your success and good luck with your future family. Children are extremely rewarding and highly entertaining. You'll never be bored again!
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Not exactly sure about the point of this pissing match, but FWIW my family's (wife, I, 2.5yr old) total living expenses were ~$21K last year. Yes, we make several times that and live in a medium COL area, but we'd have zero issues living on $40k though we would not be able to save nearly as much as we'd like. It's not ideal, but certainly doable (and MANY families do it), which I think was the other poster's point.nelson1015 wrote:
I'm not sure why 40k is the cutoff either. However, 40k would be tight. I don't think I could do it, just being honest. If you think about it 40k isn't much anymore when considering inflation. Even if someone made it off that amount with a family 10 years ago, you have to adjust for inflation for today. The value of 40k is declining each and every year.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Can be done.
My dad worked to make a living and my mom was a full time parent raising me and my sibling. My wife's parents did the same. My brother in law's family is doing the same. We both saw our parents living below their means and we started our careers debt free. We are fortunate not to worry about helping our parents financially in their retirements. We are new parents and my wife went from working full time to 4 days a week to 3 days a week to 2 days a week. She is deciding if she wants to continue working part time or quitting it to focus on kid full time. I am supporting her with whatever she wants with her work situation. And I am glad that she decided to work less at her work and spend more time with our kid. If you are wondering, my brother in law is in San Francisco bay are. My wife is from bay area. We also live in bay area.
My dad worked to make a living and my mom was a full time parent raising me and my sibling. My wife's parents did the same. My brother in law's family is doing the same. We both saw our parents living below their means and we started our careers debt free. We are fortunate not to worry about helping our parents financially in their retirements. We are new parents and my wife went from working full time to 4 days a week to 3 days a week to 2 days a week. She is deciding if she wants to continue working part time or quitting it to focus on kid full time. I am supporting her with whatever she wants with her work situation. And I am glad that she decided to work less at her work and spend more time with our kid. If you are wondering, my brother in law is in San Francisco bay are. My wife is from bay area. We also live in bay area.
Last edited by Hector on Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I am not "up in arms" over mere words. I don't want a fancy job title. What I actually care about is the tangible negative consequences in people's lives from the perception that fulltime parents are "not working."
On several occasions I have had health care providers seemingly alter their treatment based on my employment status--either give me "extra help since your're a working mother" or substandard care when I was at home fulltime. Just to mention one: When I went to the Mayo Clinic, they didn't do the appropriate tests and wrote a letter to my primary care doc saying my symptoms would "resolve when she returns to the workplace." In other words, I was a neurotic housewife not worthy of the same level of care as a paid worker. As it turned out, I actually needed surgery. But it was six more years until I was finally diagnosed and got the treatment (of course not all the damage could be reversed by then). I started putting my occupation down as a freelancer in my former career, in which I was doing very occasional consulting.
The organization where I am currently employed does not consider unpaid work of any kind as a qualification for a job. So if you raised a quarter of a million dollars for a charity, or organized a statewide convention for a service organization, that does not count at all. They weren't working. That hurts fulltime parents who want to return to a paid job. And it is frustrating for those of us who learned marketable skills during our years at home. I am praised for my organizational skills, which were mostly learned by being the chair of our co-op preschool, not in graduate school.
Those are the kinds of things that bother me about referring to fulltime parents as "not working." As long as they are being given equal treatment, respect, and opportunities, no problem--I wouldn't care what they are called.
On several occasions I have had health care providers seemingly alter their treatment based on my employment status--either give me "extra help since your're a working mother" or substandard care when I was at home fulltime. Just to mention one: When I went to the Mayo Clinic, they didn't do the appropriate tests and wrote a letter to my primary care doc saying my symptoms would "resolve when she returns to the workplace." In other words, I was a neurotic housewife not worthy of the same level of care as a paid worker. As it turned out, I actually needed surgery. But it was six more years until I was finally diagnosed and got the treatment (of course not all the damage could be reversed by then). I started putting my occupation down as a freelancer in my former career, in which I was doing very occasional consulting.
The organization where I am currently employed does not consider unpaid work of any kind as a qualification for a job. So if you raised a quarter of a million dollars for a charity, or organized a statewide convention for a service organization, that does not count at all. They weren't working. That hurts fulltime parents who want to return to a paid job. And it is frustrating for those of us who learned marketable skills during our years at home. I am praised for my organizational skills, which were mostly learned by being the chair of our co-op preschool, not in graduate school.
Those are the kinds of things that bother me about referring to fulltime parents as "not working." As long as they are being given equal treatment, respect, and opportunities, no problem--I wouldn't care what they are called.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
We have a 6 month old. I have a new found respect for stay at home parents
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Well, since you asked, you see that your spouse gets off to work ok, helping him/her make a lunch if needed; shower and get dressed; if baby is up, change her; make breakfast for both of you (or nurse her if still an infant); clean up the mess; change the diaper again; start laundry; exercise together; change the diaper; play, read, have a snack; change the diaper while bathing the baby this time. . . . check the clock to see that it is mid-morning. . .anonforthis wrote:I wonder what do stay at home parent do all day? You can't really teach or play with a kid/kids 8 hours a days 7 days a week right? Cooking? Cleaning? Running errands? Many people do that with a full time job and kid/kids.
Basically, I did as much as I could while DH was at work so that some housework was done by the time he came home to dinner that was ready, laundry done, bills paid, shopping done, so the family could spend more time together rather than doing household chores in the evening. By the time we got to the last baby, the others were in school, so baby and I also went to the school to help out in the classroom or do yard duty during recess, or set up for the bake sales. [back in the days before the Health Dept made a stink over home-made goods]
Side story: During the year I was home with all of them together, we made a cake and I decorated it for a class bake sale the next day. I gave the school kids some change to buy raffle tickets for baked goods of their choice. One won "our" cake and the other won a second cake. So we came home from school with 2 decorated cakes and had a party! Priceless!
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
OP - congratulations on your expanding family, and I very sincerely wish you all the best.
Many posters have added to this thread with their own experiences being a single-family income, all along the lines of "we did it, it worked out well, it's worth it". And I'm truly glad it worked out well for and you all feel happy with your choice.
That being said, can we talk about the financial risks of choosing to have one parent stay home? To me, it seems like a very risky strategy. What if the income earner is laid off or what if their industry suffers a prolonged downtown? Not only will there be no source of income but also likely no health insurance, since most people get insurance through their jobs. With two people working it's much less likely that they'll both lose their jobs at the same time. And what about the possibility of divorce? I have an aunt who was a SAHM for many years, and then was basically left penniless after her wealthy husband divorced her. No assets were given to her, no alimony, only child support until her son goes to college. I don't know why the divorce was so inequitable, but she is now in a terrible financial situation.
I'm sorry for being a Debbie Downer on this thread when the OP asked for success stories, but I do think these are legitimate worries. Single-income families, I'm curious to know how you thought about / mitigated these risks?
Many posters have added to this thread with their own experiences being a single-family income, all along the lines of "we did it, it worked out well, it's worth it". And I'm truly glad it worked out well for and you all feel happy with your choice.
That being said, can we talk about the financial risks of choosing to have one parent stay home? To me, it seems like a very risky strategy. What if the income earner is laid off or what if their industry suffers a prolonged downtown? Not only will there be no source of income but also likely no health insurance, since most people get insurance through their jobs. With two people working it's much less likely that they'll both lose their jobs at the same time. And what about the possibility of divorce? I have an aunt who was a SAHM for many years, and then was basically left penniless after her wealthy husband divorced her. No assets were given to her, no alimony, only child support until her son goes to college. I don't know why the divorce was so inequitable, but she is now in a terrible financial situation.
I'm sorry for being a Debbie Downer on this thread when the OP asked for success stories, but I do think these are legitimate worries. Single-income families, I'm curious to know how you thought about / mitigated these risks?
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Excellent. It seems you now agree that whether or not living on a single income is "easily attainable" depends on the level of income and the needs of the family.PittPharmboy wrote:
My original statement was that living on a single income may be is "easily attainable" with appropriate planning and budgeting. Unless I missed the OP stating that they would be going to $40K/year, the "not ideal" and "not impossible" comments were responding to the $40K/year cutoff you provided.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
When my wife and I end up having kids, she will likely become a stay at home mom. My salary is enough that we should be able to live comfortably assuming we keep a reasonable budget and still save a decent amount. It certainly won't be like it is now, but it'll be manageable.
The main reason that she is in a very low paying job (preschool teacher) that while she loves the work (which is why she stays there), sending a kid to the daycare is likely to wipe out almost all of her salary, never mind when we have 2 or 3 kids. She and I agree that it makes far more sense for her to stay at home and run the house during the day while I'm at work. Not only will she get to spend lots of time with the kid(s), but she really wants to develop her cooking skills and having all day to work on that is going to be key. We're likely to have a ton more home cooked meals, which will lower our expenses even more and be far more healthier.
She would also get to at least some of the daily chores while I'm working, which will free up my time for whatever chores are remaining plus home repairs, which should give both of us lots of remaining family time, especially on weekends. She also has several stay at home mom's she's friends with and I wouldn't be shocked if she takes up some type of volunteer gig as the kids get older, so she will have plenty of social opportunities too.
Yes there is risk, but given the field I am in, the odds are in my favor that I can find another job if something were to happen. That's the main reason why we're working very hard right now, while we have this kidless window, to knock off some debt and build up our emergency fund, so that we have options and flexibility.
The main reason that she is in a very low paying job (preschool teacher) that while she loves the work (which is why she stays there), sending a kid to the daycare is likely to wipe out almost all of her salary, never mind when we have 2 or 3 kids. She and I agree that it makes far more sense for her to stay at home and run the house during the day while I'm at work. Not only will she get to spend lots of time with the kid(s), but she really wants to develop her cooking skills and having all day to work on that is going to be key. We're likely to have a ton more home cooked meals, which will lower our expenses even more and be far more healthier.
She would also get to at least some of the daily chores while I'm working, which will free up my time for whatever chores are remaining plus home repairs, which should give both of us lots of remaining family time, especially on weekends. She also has several stay at home mom's she's friends with and I wouldn't be shocked if she takes up some type of volunteer gig as the kids get older, so she will have plenty of social opportunities too.
Yes there is risk, but given the field I am in, the odds are in my favor that I can find another job if something were to happen. That's the main reason why we're working very hard right now, while we have this kidless window, to knock off some debt and build up our emergency fund, so that we have options and flexibility.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
+1bluejello wrote:
That being said, can we talk about the financial risks of choosing to have one parent stay home? To me, it seems like a very risky strategy. What if the income earner is laid off or what if their industry suffers a prolonged downtown? Not only will there be no source of income but also likely no health insurance, since most people get insurance through their jobs. With two people working it's much less likely that they'll both lose their jobs at the same time. And what about the possibility of divorce? I have an aunt who was a SAHM for many years, and then was basically left penniless after her wealthy husband divorced her. No assets were given to her, no alimony, only child support until her son goes to college. I don't know why the divorce was so inequitable, but she is now in a terrible financial situation... I do think these are legitimate worries
For the participants who seem to be confident their partners, especially wives, will effortlessly pick up careers after leaving the work force for years there may be a rude awakening. Many women find it extremely difficult if not impossible to find positions once they are competing in the work force with others who do not have years-long gaps and outdated skillsets.
And for women, leaving work means stepping into an extremely vulnerable financial position. Although no one plans on it, divorce is a not uncommon occurrence and as social standards change, the days when a divorcee could expect a judge to award permanent alimony and support to an unemployed woman are pretty much over.
What worked for our family is that thanks to a very supportive manager, I was able to negotiate a part-time work schedule when my oldest child was born and I maintained that structure until my second (last) child started nursery school. As my kids got older my work schedule ramped up till I was back to FT status by the time youngest was in middle school.
Not only was it helpful for our finances but I remained vested and participatory in my firm's pension and benefits plans and kept my professional profile growing as well. On the personal side, I've always been extremely grateful for the gift of time with my children when they were young. Professionally it was important to me that I was able to continue to contribute to our family's financial well being and working has always been a source of satisfaction and joy.
As noted, this is a very personal decision and happy families come in all varieties. But the part time option was definitely a win-win and I wish more companies were willing to offer flexibility in this fashion. I am fortunate to work in a nonprofit (higher education) so I'm aware that many jobs can't or won't offer part time, or work from home options. And that's a shame for families not just for working mothers or fathers.
- SmileyFace
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
- choosing to stay home to raise children is in no way "quitting work" - properly raising a family is a lot of work regardless of whether or not both parents keep a paying job.Calm Man wrote:Why are all you guys quitting work because of having a child and just having the wife work? ..... So guys, don't quite work because you have a child.....
[To answer your question - in our case - it was more important to us to fully raise our own children (rather than their values be partially instilled by day-care providers available in our area) than to have all the material items you mention. The first few years were difficult financially - we made a lot of sacrifices - but things got easier as time went on. I do agree with others - the decision should be with the parents - no judgements should be made in either direction - I fully respect all choices in this area. ]
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Afty wrote:I take it you don't have a small child. At least with a baby, yes, you are spending literally 16 hours a day, 7 days a week taking care of the baby. They need constant supervision while they're awake, and they sleep in short bursts that are just long enough for you to go to the bathroom, maybe start eating a meal--- "waaaaaaaah"! There's no down time, and it's exhausting. Oh yeah, you don't get to sleep at night either because they wake every 2-3 hours to feed.anonforthis wrote:I wonder what do stay at home parent do all day? You can't really teach or play with a kid/kids 8 hours a days 7 days a week right? Cooking? Cleaning? Running errands? Many people do that with a full time job and kid/kids.
As a father of 2 small kids with a wife who works 80% time, this article is much more accurate IMO:
http://www.babble.com/relationships/bei ... ur-spouse/
I have 2 kids under 3. I cook everyday and our house isn't clean as I want it to be but it's okay for now. I would never want to stay home because what if, layoff, death, disability or divorce. Insurance can cover for death and disability but not all of it. These events I can't control but managing a household while working is something that I can control.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
It seems the approach championed in this thread is that one spouse gives up work and does everything at home and the other spouse devotes their life to the career. I think there is an equally valid approach to both having moderate careers and both participating in the home life.
My wife and I have tried is to both scale back on our jobs and equally parent. Gone are the days where we stay late or work weekends. We are happy with our current positions and are not trying to climb the ladder as fast. We routinely bring my 3 year old daughter to work events, particularly those late in the day, in contrast to other colleagues with children who use their children as an excuse not to attend. There is a double standard that men can get away with bringing their child or leaving early, and I use this as much as I can without seeming like a slacker.
We also hired a house cleaner, and for $200 a month our house is cleaned twice saving us 10+ hours of work. We pay almost double for high quality child care, and are pleased that my daughter is learning things we wouldn't have known to teach her as well as gaining social interaction with other children (since she is so far an only child). I believe a properly trained early childhood educator in the right environment can teach my daughter skills better than I can, but I realize others think differently, that no one but the parents can provide the best care.
My employer is always touting things for working moms, and I find it a bit frustrating that they also don't acknowledge working dads too. People seem confused when I tell them that I have to watch my daughter so that my wife can attend a class and improve her career. They often make trite comments about her job (it is less paying than mine), not realizing it is a career she is passionate about, and that salary alone does not determine which spouse has the "superior" job.
I admit I am frequently jealous of the couples where one person stays at home (or has a parent that comes for 6+ months to run the house)...my wife and I are exhausted. Work and raising a small child puts a huge strain on a marriage, and we are not sure if we have the energy for a second one.
My wife and I have tried is to both scale back on our jobs and equally parent. Gone are the days where we stay late or work weekends. We are happy with our current positions and are not trying to climb the ladder as fast. We routinely bring my 3 year old daughter to work events, particularly those late in the day, in contrast to other colleagues with children who use their children as an excuse not to attend. There is a double standard that men can get away with bringing their child or leaving early, and I use this as much as I can without seeming like a slacker.
We also hired a house cleaner, and for $200 a month our house is cleaned twice saving us 10+ hours of work. We pay almost double for high quality child care, and are pleased that my daughter is learning things we wouldn't have known to teach her as well as gaining social interaction with other children (since she is so far an only child). I believe a properly trained early childhood educator in the right environment can teach my daughter skills better than I can, but I realize others think differently, that no one but the parents can provide the best care.
My employer is always touting things for working moms, and I find it a bit frustrating that they also don't acknowledge working dads too. People seem confused when I tell them that I have to watch my daughter so that my wife can attend a class and improve her career. They often make trite comments about her job (it is less paying than mine), not realizing it is a career she is passionate about, and that salary alone does not determine which spouse has the "superior" job.
I admit I am frequently jealous of the couples where one person stays at home (or has a parent that comes for 6+ months to run the house)...my wife and I are exhausted. Work and raising a small child puts a huge strain on a marriage, and we are not sure if we have the energy for a second one.
I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.Naismith wrote:On several occasions I have had health care providers seemingly alter their treatment based on my employment status--either give me "extra help since your're a working mother" or substandard care when I was at home fulltime.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I think this will become less and less. More-involved dads are becoming the norm, at least in my area. Our neighborhood now has two SAHDs, my DH and our neighbor. Our neighborhood only has four families with small children, and SAHDs now outnumber SAHMs, so there is definitely progress in this area.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
We have a 2.5yr old and one on the way (next spring). Our daughter is in childcare which is provided by my employer, but I stay home with her every Friday and the first Monday of every month (in-service day when child care is closed). During those days, I am also watching a neighbor's two kids (4 and 2) as she and her husband do not have the same flexibility as I do, our children are best friends, and they can not afford 5-days/wk of childcare. So, 5-6 days a month I am a SAHD, watching three kids 2-4yrs old. Yes, I have respect for stay at home mothers, but to be brutally honest it is by far the easiest day of my week. I certainly could imagine it getting annoying doing it every single day, but watching three young kids is a lot less drama than my 100 employees. Within the 8hrs I make breakfast and lunch, change maybe a handful of diapers, spend maybe 20min cleaning up, but for the most part I sit with my laptop on my backyard porch and make sure the three don't kill each other while I work. Maybe I am just blessed with a very well behaved toddler and neighbor kids?anonforthis wrote:I wonder what do stay at home parent do all day? You can't really teach or play with a kid/kids 8 hours a days 7 days a week right? Cooking? Cleaning? Running errands? Many people do that with a full time job and kid/kids.
We threw around the idea of having her stay home when the 2nd one comes until they both start school, but luckily an employment opportunity which would give my wife a lot more schedule flexibility presented itself. So, I'll stick to my current schedule, her "office day" (her office is our home) will be Monday, and both kids will be in childcare Tuesday-Thursday. We think it'll work out.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Well this has been a lively discussion to say the least ; I think the OP's first post was worded in such a way that the responses would naturally solicit more responses from those whose own experience was one where only one parent was in the workforce ; but were those responses helpful and appropriate for this situation ?
I don't think the OP was very clear in providing a lot of detail regards their plans ; for example, is the OP looking for supportive feedback for a short term or longer term situation ? the way I read the post was that this was going to be short term where his wife was going to take anywhere from the standard maternity leave period to let's say a year off and then return to the workforce with daycare in place; when did she find out that she was pregnant ? if just recently then they still have a few months to stockpile a reserve to get them through the leave period.
And as another poster said there isn't a one size fits all in general - there are I'm sure many happy families where both work outside the home and many where only one does.
I don't think the OP was very clear in providing a lot of detail regards their plans ; for example, is the OP looking for supportive feedback for a short term or longer term situation ? the way I read the post was that this was going to be short term where his wife was going to take anywhere from the standard maternity leave period to let's say a year off and then return to the workforce with daycare in place; when did she find out that she was pregnant ? if just recently then they still have a few months to stockpile a reserve to get them through the leave period.
And as another poster said there isn't a one size fits all in general - there are I'm sure many happy families where both work outside the home and many where only one does.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Restating the obvious: Each situation is different. Only you and your family can decide what is right for you weighing all the different factors/options. Don't listen to those passing judgement.
The only time I pass judgement is when I see people do everything they can to AVOID raising their kids and/or spending time with their spouses. I see them all the time and they come from all social/economic classes.
The only time I pass judgement is when I see people do everything they can to AVOID raising their kids and/or spending time with their spouses. I see them all the time and they come from all social/economic classes.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?flyingbison wrote:I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Can't say that I've experienced anything like that. Most people in my area seem very suspicious of any man accompanied by a young child.NoVa Lurker wrote:On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?flyingbison wrote:I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I absolutely agree that all families should consider the risk of going down to one income. I cringe when I talk to fellow stay at home Moms who are clueless when it comes to their family's finances. Often times they will say their husbands are in charge, and husbands says it's okay, so it must be! Or I will see said husbands borrowing from 401ks to remodel, overleveaging to buy a house etc. etc. In our situation I saved before I got pregnant. We did not buy a single family home or got a 'family' car just because we had children. We did those things when the financial situation was right. My husband still maxed out his 401 k when I quit work, now we are fortunate to be able to add 2 Roth IRAs and more. We have a cash cushion of 1 year, we have life insurance and disability policies. We have no other debt other than our mortgage. Our life just works for us and we are not deprived. Husband drives a nice fully paid for (sports)car, kids have their activities and I don't need designer bags or clothes to be happy with life. If I had to I would get a job. It may not pay super high, but that's the price I pay for leaving the workforce but I am optimistic that we could still make it work. My child is physically but not mentally disabled. I don't consider myself a housewife, but a person with many roles. Absolutely my child can become a productive adult with an education and career. However, I need to help. My child's medical diagnosis was pushed for by me. HMO said no they couldn't, I said yes you can and here is the lab that will do it for less than you claim. School district tries to provide less services for him until I read up on the law. My child is a blessing to me and I know he will make it but you'd better believe it takes a lot of advocating. What would be the cost to taxpayers and our family in the end if he did not get an education and career? If we have to put it down to $$$, me not staying home would be penny wise but ultimately pound foolish. The lesson to take away is that you don't know what life will throw at you, so save and be frugal while enjoying life because when the do do hits the fan that reserve of $$$ gives you choices.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Actually some would argue the opposite, that living on one income gives you a reserve. This is part of the message in "The Two-Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Parents are Going Broke" by Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Warren Tyagi. Very thought-provoking read.bluejello wrote: That being said, can we talk about the financial risks of choosing to have one parent stay home? To me, it seems like a very risky strategy. What if the income earner is laid off or what if their industry suffers a prolonged downtown? Not only will there be no source of income but also likely no health insurance, since most people get insurance through their jobs. With two people working it's much less likely that they'll both lose their jobs at the same time. And what about the possibility of divorce?
Some of the things that we did to reduce my vulnerability and enhance marketability:
1. We agreed about all expenditures. We shared all income. The spouse whose name was a on the paycheck had no more right to that money than the other partner. This is even true now that I earn enough to support our family. It is all shared. This was a very positive thing that came out of that season, the stronger sense of teamwork.
2. As others mentioned, life and disability insurance, including for me as a homemaker. If I died or got ill, my husband could no longer function at his current paid job; he would need to switch to something with less travel and less overtime. Being able to hire some household help would be crucial.
3. I monitored my credit rating to ensure that I had an active credit history. Not everyone will let you have the account in your name without a paid job, but that's how we set it up when possible.
4. I did volunteer and consultant work in my field--taught a graduate seminar, wrote some articles, reviewed proposals, etc. Also did a few distance-learning classes that made it easier to do my graduate degree in a different field.
5. Thankfully, the ACA in the US is de-linking health insurance from employment, as is the standard in other counties, making that less of an issue.
6. Some careers are better than others at enabling worklplace re-entry and/or part-time options. I recommend pharmacy, physical therapy, registered nurse, accounting, statistics.
I don't think anyone is trying to pretend that there are no risks. Like any decision, we weigh the costs and benefits and do the best we can for our particular family at that particular point in time. About the only guarantee is that whatever is working well now, it will need to be readjusted in a few months or years.
But do you want to live your life in fear?
And there are other fears, too. The fear that you are so busy that you will miss symptoms of a condition in one of your children, and they will be both damaged physically and angry at you. Fear that you won't read through the mail soon enough and your daughter will miss the invitation to her best friend's birthday party. The fear that you will go weeks without spending any quality time with your spouse. At least those are the things that happened to me when I was employed fulltime with kids, that I found did NOT happen when I cut back or eliminated my employment for a time.
And I totally agree that we need more flexible options for employment. One of my daughters works for an employer who guarantees her a job if she returns within five years, because of the investment in her extensive training. If everyone had that opportunity, it would be a very different world.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Where do you live? I'm also in WI, and, like I posted above, know quite a few SAHDs, my husband included. I've never seen anything that indicates the public is suspicious of a man accompanied by a young child.flyingbison wrote:Can't say that I've experienced anything like that. Most people in my area seem very suspicious of any man accompanied by a young child.NoVa Lurker wrote:On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?flyingbison wrote:I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I don't feel living on a single income puts a family in financial risk. If we run into trouble, my husband can go back to work. We live on one income (granted, its the larger of the two) now, but with DH's income and unemployment (not to mention our 1-year+ EF), we would be fine for quite a while were I to lose my job.
We also both have life insurance, max out my 401k, and max our both our Roth IRAs.
We also both have life insurance, max out my 401k, and max our both our Roth IRAs.
An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Same here. In Pac NW my experience as a dad was that I got enormous praise for doing almost nothing! "He's holding his baby son and not immediately trying to hand him off to mom? What a great dad! He changed a diaper... OMG!"bungalow10 wrote:Where do you live? I'm also in WI, and, like I posted above, know quite a few SAHDs, my husband included. I've never seen anything that indicates the public is suspicious of a man accompanied by a young child.flyingbison wrote:Can't say that I've experienced anything like that. Most people in my area seem very suspicious of any man accompanied by a young child.NoVa Lurker wrote:On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?flyingbison wrote:I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Yeah we made it work. And I mean made it work. I planned to be off for a year and then find a job with a shorter commute. I had a job offer in hand the day DHs employer announced they were shutting his plant.
So we relocated and when DS went to school, I got a job. And shortly thereafter DHs employer began threatening to close that plant if they didn't get a sweetheart deal.
So we relocated again. And we've been here a little over a year and honestly I'm still going back and forth wondering if I should go back to work.
Through all this, we still saved 20% of our income for retirement, even when we had to pay mortgage and rent. It helps that I was not afraid to also take on many traditionally male home and car maintenance / repair / improvement tasks as well as the finances.
It also helps that we have cheap hobbies.
And it is nice to know that even in the middle of a recession I managed to go out and land a job (not that it paid all that well). I would do so again if there was even a hint of it being necessary.
ETA - And we bought our cars when we were DINKs and we still drive them.
So we relocated and when DS went to school, I got a job. And shortly thereafter DHs employer began threatening to close that plant if they didn't get a sweetheart deal.
So we relocated again. And we've been here a little over a year and honestly I'm still going back and forth wondering if I should go back to work.
Through all this, we still saved 20% of our income for retirement, even when we had to pay mortgage and rent. It helps that I was not afraid to also take on many traditionally male home and car maintenance / repair / improvement tasks as well as the finances.
It also helps that we have cheap hobbies.
And it is nice to know that even in the middle of a recession I managed to go out and land a job (not that it paid all that well). I would do so again if there was even a hint of it being necessary.
ETA - And we bought our cars when we were DINKs and we still drive them.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Not in Madison or Milwaukee (and maybe Lacrosse), I live in the other part of the state that is stuck in the 1950s.bungalow10 wrote:Where do you live? I'm also in WI, and, like I posted above, know quite a few SAHDs, my husband included. I've never seen anything that indicates the public is suspicious of a man accompanied by a young child.flyingbison wrote:Can't say that I've experienced anything like that. Most people in my area seem very suspicious of any man accompanied by a young child.NoVa Lurker wrote:On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?flyingbison wrote:I've had similar experiences, and it is frustrating.biomedeng wrote: I'm a man and I took my 3 month old daughter to the pediatrician with a 103 degree fever (my wife used up all her sick days with maternity leave). The nurse asked "where is the mother" as if my wife had died, run off, or had been deployed to Iraq. I remarked that she was at work and there was a very uncomfortable silence. I was pretty mad about the whole thing, the idea that a dad is so inept that they cannot take care of a sick child and that my wife was remiss in allowing me to care for my daughter. Not just in health care, but over and over again I am constantly interacting people who seem to be surprised that the dad can also play an active role in their child's life beyond playing catch on the weekends.
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Interesting choice of words given the societal value places on being an "executive" and the implicit preference for a white collar, rather than blue collar terminology.Calm Man wrote:Excellent terms !!!VictoriaF wrote:How about Household Executive (HE) and Senior Household Executive (SHE)?nelson1015 wrote:I don't think the phrase "not-working" should get anyone up in arms. I am aware that we live in an ultra sensitive PC society, but c'mon. Those two words aren't offensive by themselves. I know what they can imply but that is really reaching.Naismith wrote:Is there a chance that perhaps we could please avoid referring to full-time parents as "not-working"? It isn't accurate (many work very hard!) and has negative connotations when people try to return to the workforce, seek medical care, or just have their work respected by those around them.
There are so many accurate terms that could be used: Not in the workforce...not earning a paycheck...not employed....
Victoria
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Executives serve on top of all colors: white, blue and pink.Leemiller wrote:Interesting choice of words given the societal value places on being an "executive" and the implicit preference for a white collar, rather than blue collar terminology.Calm Man wrote:Excellent terms !!!VictoriaF wrote:How about Household Executive (HE) and Senior Household Executive (SHE)?nelson1015 wrote:I don't think the phrase "not-working" should get anyone up in arms. I am aware that we live in an ultra sensitive PC society, but c'mon. Those two words aren't offensive by themselves. I know what they can imply but that is really reaching.Naismith wrote:Is there a chance that perhaps we could please avoid referring to full-time parents as "not-working"? It isn't accurate (many work very hard!) and has negative connotations when people try to return to the workforce, seek medical care, or just have their work respected by those around them.
There are so many accurate terms that could be used: Not in the workforce...not earning a paycheck...not employed....
Victoria
Victoria
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
But this is still crazy, the idea a dad doing any kind of child care deserves praise and attention because it is so rare. To me it goes hand in hand with people being surprised or suspicious of men taking care of young children. The same nurse who acted weird that my wife didn't come to the appointment later talked to my wife on the phone about lab results and told DW how I was "so amazing" with the baby.Jozxyqk wrote:Same here. In Pac NW my experience as a dad was that I got enormous praise for doing almost nothing! "He's holding his baby son and not immediately trying to hand him off to mom? What a great dad! He changed a diaper... OMG!"bungalow10 wrote:Where do you live? I'm also in WI, and, like I posted above, know quite a few SAHDs, my husband included. I've never seen anything that indicates the public is suspicious of a man accompanied by a young child.flyingbison wrote:Can't say that I've experienced anything like that. Most people in my area seem very suspicious of any man accompanied by a young child.NoVa Lurker wrote:
On the bright side, as the dad, we also get benefits in the other direction, right?
I took my three-year-old son to the dentist before work recently, and I received maybe 20 compliments in the course of an hour. (I think it "helped" that I was wearing a full suit and tie, and my son was in a rare clingy mood, asking me non-stop, cute questions, none of which is typical for us at 8 am.) If my wife had taken him, people might say nice things about our son, but nobody would have specifically complimented her.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
We do beautifully on one income. It depends on your priorities. Hubby even plans on retiring early.
My focus is on the kids and on running our house like a business. No unnecessary expenditures & maximize spending. I estimate that I made $27,000 last year net, and I didn't work for an employer or bring in a dime in income. That's from me saving us money and managing our finances. I just talked in another thread about how my friend had no idea how much she spent on groceries, and it turned out to be 1200 monthly. We spend 500 monthly and our family is the same size. That's a $8,400 difference annually!
You and your wife have to decide what is important to you and live your lives accordingly. Don't listen to anyone else. Some people aren't willing to give up deluxe cable and eating out multiple times a week so that their children can be home with a parent. If you are, then they won't understand your decision. Go with your gut! (and feel free to have your wife PM me for ideas)
The kids and I had a great time fishing today while most people were working! Being a stay at home mom does have it's perks.
My focus is on the kids and on running our house like a business. No unnecessary expenditures & maximize spending. I estimate that I made $27,000 last year net, and I didn't work for an employer or bring in a dime in income. That's from me saving us money and managing our finances. I just talked in another thread about how my friend had no idea how much she spent on groceries, and it turned out to be 1200 monthly. We spend 500 monthly and our family is the same size. That's a $8,400 difference annually!
You and your wife have to decide what is important to you and live your lives accordingly. Don't listen to anyone else. Some people aren't willing to give up deluxe cable and eating out multiple times a week so that their children can be home with a parent. If you are, then they won't understand your decision. Go with your gut! (and feel free to have your wife PM me for ideas)
The kids and I had a great time fishing today while most people were working! Being a stay at home mom does have it's perks.
- XtremeSki2001
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
I'm a little late to the party, but was in a similar boat as you ~18 months ago (we're expecting our second in 3 weeks). I wanted to share a few thoughts with you as I struggled with the economic ramifications too.Tortoise Banker wrote:Reduced my monthly investment savings substantially today. My wife and I are expecting which is terrific news, but kind of bumbed at the economic implications.
Any stories out there of moving to one income source and making it work! Went from maxing two IRAs and nearly maxing my 401k (she doesn't have one) to investing only up to company match (5%).
Hoping to increase as we sort out logistics of back to work and child care, but would love to hear any of the bogleheads success stories.
Thanks, and sorry for not including our full financial profile, but more interested in hearing other's stories vs. suggestions on our own. We are both frugal bogleheads, so eventually we'll get back up to snuff.
Thanks!!!
TB
Wife and I had things dialed in well when baby #1 came:
Combined income of $185k
Mortgage costs <20% of our income per month
2 very manageable car payments
Aggregate savings rate of ~40%/year
After the baby came (and when also when we bought our home) we assumed my wife would return to work. A few weeks with our son and we quickly realized my wife would stay at home with our son and stay at home to raise our future children.
Things for us are relatively tight to what we're accustomed. I still make significant 401k contributions and have a 6 month emergency fund, but otherwise have no other savings (extra money is gobbled up by home repairs, OBGYN bills, etc.). It's not easy, but we felt it was more important for my wife to be at home to raise our children. Once they're all in elementary school she'll return to work and we'll play catch-up.
Recognizing our previous savings rate and ability to live off one income gives us confidence we'll be just fine.
Also, wanted to underscore the importance of this posters note below - it resonated with me and I hope it will with you, too.
HoosierJim wrote:It sounds like from the original post that the major "sacrifice" is cutting contributions to retirement.
I wonder if retired bogleheads would trade one year of retirement in exchange for 1 year of spending time raising their child? I think I know the answer.
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
This is a great example of the need for flexibility in all our plans. Of the half-dozen women in my playgroup with one of the toddlers, none of us had planned on being at home fulltime, ever. But things happen. One woman lost her job when on bedrest during pregnancy, one couldn't find adequate daycare, one's husband had the chance to be a Chief Resident and they decided that she would focus on home to allow him to jump in at the hospital.XtremeSki2001 wrote: After the baby came (and when also when we bought our home) we assumed my wife would return to work. A few weeks with our son and we quickly realized my wife would stay at home with our son and stay at home to raise our future children.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
EXACTLY.TxAg wrote:We have a 6 month old. I have a new found respect for stay at home parents
Pre-baby - "I'd be a stay-at-home dad in a heartbeat if I could."
Post-baby - "You couldn't pay me enough to be a stay-at-home dad."
Those first six months or so are crazy hard. Ours is turning six months soon and JUST slept through the entire night for only the second time last night. The lack of sleep has really taken a toll on us and our well-being that I know is going to take some time to recover from. Also, even with both of us working, money is super tight (I refuse to deviate from our savings plan / goals, even temporarily), mostly due to daycare, but I just keep telling myself that things will only get easier as he gets older.
On the flip side, I'm not one of those who goes around telling people, "Don't worry about money. Having babies / kids trumps everything and will make you infinitely happy", BUT...now that our son is interacting with us and is quite literally growing by the day, it is pretty cool / touching. Seeing him play and smile is enough to melt our hearts and it makes dropping hundreds of dollars on formula, diapers, and daycare, a much easier pill to swallow.
We'll get through this just as many generations before us did. Best of luck and enjoy the ride.
- White Coat Investor
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
We dropped to one income when I was a resident. We saved a little less after that until I became an attending. Some things are more important than retiring a few years earlier. No regrets. A stay at home parent not only saves a lot of money (income and payroll taxes, child care, transportation, work clothing, extra meals/lunches out) but can also help the family economize in ways they couldn't before. Not to mention contribute more to the family and society. My wife's a PE teacher by training. In our district, none of the elementary kids gets to have PE taught by a PE teacher, unless they happen to be in the class of one of my children. Who do you think runs PTAs, soccer leagues, church organizations etc etc. Tough to do all that, raise a family, AND work full-time.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Except the one working spouse has to give up multiple years of retirement and STILL doesn't get to stay home with the kid. She or he may not even get much time with the grandkids because she or he is still working.XtremeSki2001 wrote:Also, wanted to underscore the importance of this posters note below - it resonated with me and I hope it will with you, too.
HoosierJim wrote:It sounds like from the original post that the major "sacrifice" is cutting contributions to retirement.
I wonder if retired bogleheads would trade one year of retirement in exchange for 1 year of spending time raising their child? I think I know the answer.
Plus you have the whole uncertainty of life and jobs... My son is 12... My wife "retired" last year, and it's worked out well.. He needs her far more at this age than he did when he was 4-10, so I'm glad she's home with him.
I'd love to stay home with both them for the next 5 years in exchange for working 5 years longer before retiring. But such a trade-off isn't really feasible in the real world.
(1) There's no guarantee I could get a comparable paying job after 5 years off
(2) I'd probably have to work 7-8 more years instead of 5, to make up for depleting savings and loss of new savings, and reducing compound returns
(3) There's no guarantee I could keep a job for those full 7-8 years that much later in life, with possible health issues, or age discrimination
(4) We'd have to cut back our lifestyle, and STILL I'd be worried about money the entire 5 years I wasn't working.
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Yep. #1 is the biggest barrier for me. As much as I would like to stay home for a few years, it would likely end my ability to have meaningful employment in my field for the rest of my working life.HomerJ wrote: I'd love to stay home with both them for the next 5 years in exchange for working 5 years longer before retiring. But such a trade-off isn't really feasible in the real world.
(1) There's no guarantee I could get a comparable paying job after 5 years off
(2) I'd probably have to work 7-8 more years instead of 5, to make up for depleting savings and loss of new savings, and reducing compound returns
(3) There's no guarantee I could keep a job for those full 7-8 years that much later in life, with possible health issues, or age discrimination
(4) We'd have to cut back our lifestyle, and STILL I'd be worried about money the entire 5 years I wasn't working.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
This is a really interesting and valuable conversation for me, so I'd like to thank everybody for expanding on their views and for keeping the tone fairly neutral. As a 30 year old female newlywed professional, this topic weighs on me and I think about it frequently. Assuming we have children, I have no idea whether I will want to stay home or return to work.
On one hand, I relish my independence and my 6 figure income. I take pride in my identity as a professional and enjoy the perks that come with my career. I like wearing dresses and suits to work and expensing lunches and happy hours at the best restaurants; I also enjoy the mental stimulation required and helping people reach their goals. Naturally, I enjoy the luxuries my income makes possible as well as our ability to save a quarter of our gross income. Plus my current job isn't even very demanding - the hours are flexible and the sales pressure is minor.
On the other hand, I don't have much of a work ethic and don't have ambitions to move up the corporate ladder. My current boss and employer enable if not encourage this malaise, but it probably won't last forever. As a result though, an actual corporate 8-6 grind like my husband's is no longer very appealing - and that's WITHOUT kids waiting for me at home! I already spend an inordinate amount of the day managing our household and prioritizing housewife-y activities such as exercise and cooking creative dinners over logging hours at the office.
DH is in the same industry and is much more committed to his work. He earns a bit more than me now, and that gap is sure to widen due to his work ethic and management aspirations. We have a big head start on retirement savings and have a good safety net, so we could afford to live just on his income. However my field is a difficult one to leave and return to, at least without taking a significant pay cut (since it's based on relationships with clients), and there are no part time options. I would probably never return; rather, I'd start my own business or go in another career direction (both of which would also constitute lower income). At best my lifetime earning potential would be taking an extraordinary hit. It's tough imagining that my lifetime peak income could be occurring right now, at only age 30, especially after all the years I spent getting educated. If I decide that I want to leave my husband one day, or if he decides to leave me, it would be a tough adjustment financially. I'd earn, save AND spend much less than I do now - with the added expense of children.
Now, none of that speaks much to whether I will actually want to stay at home all day caring for a wet squalling baby. I anticipate that I will adamantly want to be there but that I will not be particularly good at "mothering" nor will I enjoy it very much at all. Hopefully I'm off base on all counts...I have always wanted the option of staying home, and I have arranged my life to ensure that I have it. But whether to exercise that option remains a giant looming question mark.
On one hand, I relish my independence and my 6 figure income. I take pride in my identity as a professional and enjoy the perks that come with my career. I like wearing dresses and suits to work and expensing lunches and happy hours at the best restaurants; I also enjoy the mental stimulation required and helping people reach their goals. Naturally, I enjoy the luxuries my income makes possible as well as our ability to save a quarter of our gross income. Plus my current job isn't even very demanding - the hours are flexible and the sales pressure is minor.
On the other hand, I don't have much of a work ethic and don't have ambitions to move up the corporate ladder. My current boss and employer enable if not encourage this malaise, but it probably won't last forever. As a result though, an actual corporate 8-6 grind like my husband's is no longer very appealing - and that's WITHOUT kids waiting for me at home! I already spend an inordinate amount of the day managing our household and prioritizing housewife-y activities such as exercise and cooking creative dinners over logging hours at the office.
DH is in the same industry and is much more committed to his work. He earns a bit more than me now, and that gap is sure to widen due to his work ethic and management aspirations. We have a big head start on retirement savings and have a good safety net, so we could afford to live just on his income. However my field is a difficult one to leave and return to, at least without taking a significant pay cut (since it's based on relationships with clients), and there are no part time options. I would probably never return; rather, I'd start my own business or go in another career direction (both of which would also constitute lower income). At best my lifetime earning potential would be taking an extraordinary hit. It's tough imagining that my lifetime peak income could be occurring right now, at only age 30, especially after all the years I spent getting educated. If I decide that I want to leave my husband one day, or if he decides to leave me, it would be a tough adjustment financially. I'd earn, save AND spend much less than I do now - with the added expense of children.
Now, none of that speaks much to whether I will actually want to stay at home all day caring for a wet squalling baby. I anticipate that I will adamantly want to be there but that I will not be particularly good at "mothering" nor will I enjoy it very much at all. Hopefully I'm off base on all counts...I have always wanted the option of staying home, and I have arranged my life to ensure that I have it. But whether to exercise that option remains a giant looming question mark.
Last edited by Meg77 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Meg,
When you have a child you will be influenced by conflicting pressures that you may not be able to appreciate yet. Your post-childbirth hormones will be screaming to you to spend all your time with the baby. This happens even to non-maternal women, to their surprise. If you are sleep deprived, you won't feel like going to the office in the morning. But the home confinement as a stay-at-home parent may encourage you to return to the workforce sooner rather than later. If you stay at home for a few months and then come back to the office, you may gain new appreciation for the intellectual stimulation of your career.
While you don't know now how it will eventually work out, try to influence what you can. One obvious area is financial flexibility to pursue any option you choose, You already have this flexibility. The other major area is your baby's and your health. Do the best you can do prior to getting pregnant and during your pregnancy to minimize the possibility of health issues that may force your choices. You can't eliminate risk, but you can reduce it and have the satisfaction that you did all you could do.
Best wishes,
Victoria
When you have a child you will be influenced by conflicting pressures that you may not be able to appreciate yet. Your post-childbirth hormones will be screaming to you to spend all your time with the baby. This happens even to non-maternal women, to their surprise. If you are sleep deprived, you won't feel like going to the office in the morning. But the home confinement as a stay-at-home parent may encourage you to return to the workforce sooner rather than later. If you stay at home for a few months and then come back to the office, you may gain new appreciation for the intellectual stimulation of your career.
While you don't know now how it will eventually work out, try to influence what you can. One obvious area is financial flexibility to pursue any option you choose, You already have this flexibility. The other major area is your baby's and your health. Do the best you can do prior to getting pregnant and during your pregnancy to minimize the possibility of health issues that may force your choices. You can't eliminate risk, but you can reduce it and have the satisfaction that you did all you could do.
Best wishes,
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Thank you for your kind words, Victoria. Yes the one thing I know is that I have no idea what I will feel like or want when/if the time comes! My sister has always seemed to embody the image of a nurturing stay at home mom even from childhood. However her first child is now one, and she is actively job searching. She LOVES her day care provider (really more of a nanny share) who takes him 4 days a week for 6 hours. She says that after 48 hour together he gets frustrated with her and vice versa. She feels she gets too harsh with him, and she appreciates the crafts and educational activities her nanny enjoys dreaming up. The kiddo is very social and comes home from day play in a great mood, whereas she is recharged from attending her masters classes where she gets to "use her brain" as she says. I was shocked to hear her say all this, knowing her as I do, which is partly why I fear that I will be the opposite and give up my Type A planning, money earning ways to insist on staying home with my unborn baby indefinitely. Either way it is good to have options, and that after all is the whole point of saving money.VictoriaF wrote:Meg,
When you have a child you will be influenced by conflicting pressures that you may not be able to appreciate yet. Your post-childbirth hormones will be screaming to you to spend all your time with the baby. This happens even to non-maternal women, to their surprise. If you are sleep deprived, you won't feel like going to the office in the morning. But the home confinement as a stay-at-home parent may encourage you to return to the workforce sooner rather than later. If you stay at home for a few months and then come back to the office, you may gain new appreciation for the intellectual stimulation of your career.
While you don't know how it will eventually work out try to influence what you can. One obvious area is financial flexibility to have any option you choose, You already have this flexibility. The other major area is your baby's and your health. Do the best you can do prior to getting pregnant and during your pregnancy to minimize the possibility of health issues that may force your choices. You can't eliminate risks, but you can reduce them and have the satisfaction that you did all you could do.
Best of luck,
Victoria
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
- Tortoise Banker
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
@meg77
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm glad some of these posts have been insightful for you. Likewise for me.
"HoosierJim wrote:
It sounds like from the original post that the major "sacrifice" is cutting contributions to retirement.
I wonder if retired bogleheads would trade one year of retirement in exchange for 1 year of spending time raising their child? I think I know the answer."
Couldn't agree more. Valuable point of view HoosierJim.
It is very encouraging to hear about single income families finding a way to make it work. This is ALL a new world for me, so it has been a motivator to be more supportive for my wife and as the "money manager" of the family, I am making adjustments to our budget and creating contingencies on how quickly she returns to work if at all in the next 7 years.
Like Meg77, we've made a nice jump start on retirement savings so hopefully our retirement savings will enjoy compounding.
With that being said, I'm currently looking at a $500 budget shortfall and have been investigating ways to bring this in balance. As bogleheads, it appears the trend in responses have been "We're at one income, but we're doing great and still able to save a meaningful amount." Hopefully my sharing this generates some feedback from more posters.
I'd like to add that childcare is incredibly expensive. Monthly charge on a 5 day/week schedule (6 weeks old to 13 months) is $1061. This drops slightly to $1011 at 4 days/week and $850 for 3 days. Luckily, my wife's profession is hair styling, and the salon is open Sat and Sun. She is starting very fresh in January when she gets her license, so the income is unpredictable.
I'm just holding on tight and hanging on for a wild ride. We do have enough savings to "carry us" comfortably for around 2 years even if the income situation doesn't improve much... but in no way are we close to returning our savings rate back up to 30% or two fully funded roths and 20% of my income to 401k. We live in a HCOL area, and my income isn't that great. I am determined to be a great husband and Father, however, and will apply Jack Bogle's "Stay the Course" approach intensely in this next stage of life. TB
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm glad some of these posts have been insightful for you. Likewise for me.
"HoosierJim wrote:
It sounds like from the original post that the major "sacrifice" is cutting contributions to retirement.
I wonder if retired bogleheads would trade one year of retirement in exchange for 1 year of spending time raising their child? I think I know the answer."
Couldn't agree more. Valuable point of view HoosierJim.
It is very encouraging to hear about single income families finding a way to make it work. This is ALL a new world for me, so it has been a motivator to be more supportive for my wife and as the "money manager" of the family, I am making adjustments to our budget and creating contingencies on how quickly she returns to work if at all in the next 7 years.
Like Meg77, we've made a nice jump start on retirement savings so hopefully our retirement savings will enjoy compounding.
With that being said, I'm currently looking at a $500 budget shortfall and have been investigating ways to bring this in balance. As bogleheads, it appears the trend in responses have been "We're at one income, but we're doing great and still able to save a meaningful amount." Hopefully my sharing this generates some feedback from more posters.
I'd like to add that childcare is incredibly expensive. Monthly charge on a 5 day/week schedule (6 weeks old to 13 months) is $1061. This drops slightly to $1011 at 4 days/week and $850 for 3 days. Luckily, my wife's profession is hair styling, and the salon is open Sat and Sun. She is starting very fresh in January when she gets her license, so the income is unpredictable.
I'm just holding on tight and hanging on for a wild ride. We do have enough savings to "carry us" comfortably for around 2 years even if the income situation doesn't improve much... but in no way are we close to returning our savings rate back up to 30% or two fully funded roths and 20% of my income to 401k. We live in a HCOL area, and my income isn't that great. I am determined to be a great husband and Father, however, and will apply Jack Bogle's "Stay the Course" approach intensely in this next stage of life. TB
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
This post is getting addictive and it's good to hear some views ( i.e. Meg77 ,Victoria, Cheese_breath, & BBadger) on the side of the choice to return to the workforce after having a baby ; for my wife, continuing her career and starting a family was what she wanted to do - the key for us I think was responsible and trustworthy daycare - peace of mind for both of us during the day - we found a married woman who took a few children into her home and she was tremendous ,we still connect with her to this day.
Our daughter delivered twins early in February - we helped her with feedings and changings for 3 days a week ,every week for 6 months - it was at times overwhelming for our daughter - they're in daycare now close to where they live and where she works outside Boston - she along with our son-in-law have confidence in the daycare and she has some flexibility to get over to the daycare quickly if she needs to - it's still difficult juggling everything and I'm sure it will take some time for things to level off - being able to eventually sleep through the night will be a huge boost .
But they're in a town with a great school system and they really like living close to Boston ; maybe it's the old apple not falling far from the tree thing since our daughter also feels good about her decision to continue a career that she loves along with being a Mommy !!
Our daughter delivered twins early in February - we helped her with feedings and changings for 3 days a week ,every week for 6 months - it was at times overwhelming for our daughter - they're in daycare now close to where they live and where she works outside Boston - she along with our son-in-law have confidence in the daycare and she has some flexibility to get over to the daycare quickly if she needs to - it's still difficult juggling everything and I'm sure it will take some time for things to level off - being able to eventually sleep through the night will be a huge boost .
But they're in a town with a great school system and they really like living close to Boston ; maybe it's the old apple not falling far from the tree thing since our daughter also feels good about her decision to continue a career that she loves along with being a Mommy !!
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Tortoise Banker wrote:I am making adjustments to our budget and creating contingencies on how quickly she returns to work if at all in the next 7 years.
Tortoise Banker wrote:I'd like to add that childcare is incredibly expensive. Monthly charge on a 5 day/week schedule (6 weeks old to 13 months) is $1061. This drops slightly to $1011 at 4 days/week and $850 for 3 days. Luckily, my wife's profession is hair styling, and the salon is open Sat and Sun. She is starting very fresh in January when she gets her license, so the income is unpredictable.
Staying the course is great as long as you have a course - reading your response I wonder is it:
(1) stay at home for 7 years ?
(2) back to work for 5 days/week starting in January
(3) back to work for 7 days/week starting in January or
(4) back to work for 2 days/week starting in January
since daycare is mentioned I'm leaning toward (2) or (3) but since it's expensive it bends me over to (1) or (4)
Anyway , Good Luck ,Good Health and Happiness
- XtremeSki2001
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
Thought this was a great post. My wife and I, similar to Tortoise Banker, had a budget shortfall of $500/month. We calculated this prior to the pregnancy. We saved enough to cover said shortfall so my wife could stay home at least 1-year and then we would re-evaluate. Fortunately, positive changes occurred during year 1 and we have enough money for her to stay home several years.ubermax wrote:Staying the course is great as long as you have a course - reading your response I wonder is it:
(1) stay at home for 7 years ?
(2) back to work for 5 days/week starting in January
(3) back to work for 7 days/week starting in January or
(4) back to work for 2 days/week starting in January
A teacher of mine in high school always said failing to plan is planning to fail. Spend a lot of time planning to enable success.
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
- SmileyFace
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Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
It does however allow the working spouse to spend more time with the kids. When my spouse started staying home with the kids he/she also handled most of the grocery shopping, running to the dry-cleaners, household chores, cooking, etc. - allowing me to focus more time with the kids after work and on weekends versus time that I would have spent running errands and doing household chores.HomerJ wrote:
Except the one working spouse has to give up multiple years of retirement and STILL doesn't get to stay home with the kid. She or he may not even get much time with the grandkids because she or he is still working.
Re: Wife Expecting, Down to One Income Source
We've chosen not to have kids (pretty easy decision for both of us) but everyone I know have kids. The number 1 cause of fights/arguements is money with them. If I had a nickle everytime a friend said "Kids are expensive" or "He/she is spending it faster than I bring it in" I could afford kids my self.
I've found a lot of it is psychological. Guys I know are all "blue collar" and work very physical labor and they do sound bitter at times about the wife who stays at home "doing nothing". Now, I'm not argueing that staying at home isn't hard but let's not forget the realities of staying in an ac home with tv to logging for a living.
Some friends can no longer afford to play rec league sports because money becomes tight, that creates lots of tension.
Also, many of the wives I know do not go back to work after kids start school and that's another sore point for the guys I know.
There's a lot at play here, I know. Everyones relationship is different but I think it is safe to say finances can cripple a relationship just as badly as anything.
You must have a clear budget before the kid is born and odds are the plan for the stay at home spouse to go back to work will change.
I've found a lot of it is psychological. Guys I know are all "blue collar" and work very physical labor and they do sound bitter at times about the wife who stays at home "doing nothing". Now, I'm not argueing that staying at home isn't hard but let's not forget the realities of staying in an ac home with tv to logging for a living.
Some friends can no longer afford to play rec league sports because money becomes tight, that creates lots of tension.
Also, many of the wives I know do not go back to work after kids start school and that's another sore point for the guys I know.
There's a lot at play here, I know. Everyones relationship is different but I think it is safe to say finances can cripple a relationship just as badly as anything.
You must have a clear budget before the kid is born and odds are the plan for the stay at home spouse to go back to work will change.