Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

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Methedras
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Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by Methedras »

Hey everyone, I need some help with how to manage my salary negotiations. I'm turning to the smartest community I know!

I am currently an academic researcher, specifically in the field of power systems engineering. While I was on a foreign visit, I was approached by a gentleman who informed me of an open position at a research institute in the Bay Area (I am a US citizen, in case that matters). I ran into the same guy at a conference, and again he pressed me again to apply for the position.

It seems like a good opportunity, and negotiations have been proceeding. Now, the un-fun part comes up, when he asks me to propose the initial salary. This position would essentially be a senior data analyst position, and there is generally a mild shortage of qualified US citizens in this field.

How in the world do I proceed? Do I overreach a bit, or offer up something closer to the final value? Do I try to take into account the culture of the person I am negotiating with? (He is originally from another country.)

Thanks for all the help! :sharebeer
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xystici
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by xystici »

I would like to know what salaries do senior data analyst command today in the US, specially in the Bay Area if that is possible to know.

Also, it seems you are excited about the position and some negotiations have been happening (except for salary discussions). What kind of negotiations have you agreed / discussed already?

How much do you want this position?

Are you moving to the Bay Area from another country or within the US? You should factor moving considerations for you and your family, not only monetary.

Is it the right moment to discuss salary? Are you interviewing other people within the institution in the future?

Is he/she the right person to discuss salary?

A little more background would be helpful in my opinion.
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fizxman
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by fizxman »

I've found glassdoor.com useful in helping determine salaries at companies, for certain job titles in various locations. Go there and look under "Salaries" for the job title and location you're interested in. It will give you a list of companies in which people have anonymously reported their salary. If nothing else, it's a start.
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by livesoft »

If one is not immediately eligible to contribute to a retirement plan, get a signing bonus to cover that deficiency. An example might be that one is not eligible to sign up for the 401(k) plan for 6 months and there is a company match. I'd ask for an additional $11,500 plus whatever the company match would be as if I had been contributing to the 401(k) for that entire 6 month waiting period.
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Zabar
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by Zabar »

Methedras wrote:Now, the un-fun part comes up, when he asks me to propose the initial salary.
The rule of thumb is that whomever mentions an initial salary loses. If it's the employee, it sets a ceiling; if it's the employer, it sets a floor. If he asks you what you're looking for, simply state, "More than I'm making now. But the exact amount depends upon the total package." Then ask what he's offering.

Yes, you should find out about comparable positions. But also remember that organizations often can negotiate benefits, such as vacation time, moving expenses and signing bonuses more easily than salary.
LongerPrimer
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by LongerPrimer »

housing, transportation, schools, taxes, enviromental, recreational issues are secondary issues that can become 1st issues pretty quickly.
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roymeo
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by roymeo »

Zabar wrote: The rule of thumb is that whomever mentions an initial salary loses. If it's the employee, it sets a ceiling; if it's the employer, it sets a floor.
I think it's a much less of a loss for the employer, at least if the employer is the type that wants to pay people what they're worth and not have them leave.

I've worked at a company that was working on cleaning up the mess when one hiring manager really excelled at low-balling people. The team had been split and merged with other groups several times, and was finally being reallocated throughout the company and luckily management recognized that some people were way out of band for new hires. As awesome as it is to give your employees a raise, it is also hard to spin "you're getting an extra $8000 because you've been underpaid for the past 7 years" in a way that doesn't end up leaving people with a bad taste in their mouth.
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zebrafish
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by zebrafish »

Zabar wrote:
Methedras wrote:Now, the un-fun part comes up, when he asks me to propose the initial salary.
The rule of thumb is that whomever mentions an initial salary loses. If it's the employee, it sets a ceiling; if it's the employer, it sets a floor. If he asks you what you're looking for, simply state, "More than I'm making now. But the exact amount depends upon the total package." Then ask what he's offering.
I agree with all this. If you cave and give a number, it will likely cost you. If the person negotiating won't give you a number, then that might be telling you something about working for them.
kd2008
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by kd2008 »

Tread carefully. Here is real life example: I was asked the same question. I had my research done. I showed them a posting of similar job on internet in a different geographical area. I also showed the difference in average salaries for my profession (as given by dept of labor data) in my city and also for the city of the openly posted position on the internet. Based on these two I came up with my final number. They balked and said it was too much. I didn't waste my or their time after that, and simply walked away.
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gunn_show
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by gunn_show »

xystici wrote:A little more background would be helpful in my opinion.
+1 to this, and the additional questions "xystici" asked (i chopped them out so my quote reply wasn't a mile long) as they would be very helpful to understand your overall thinking for the potential new job/employer
fizxman wrote:I've found glassdoor.com .... If nothing else, it's a start.
+1 to this. Glassdoor has helped me in negotiations several times.

And in the end, as "kd2008" mentions, come with a hard number, and if they don't meet it, just walk away. sometimes walking away is the best move, if they really want you, they will call back..
"The best life hack of all is to just put the work in and never give up." Bas Rutten
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greg24
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by greg24 »

The person who asked you twice to apply, is he the hiring manager? If so, they are pursuing you. Twice they asked you to apply. THEY want YOU.

I would do everything I could to make them give the first number, maybe even jokingly saying "hey, you were the one who wanted me to apply, how about you make the opening bid?"

If you can't get them to give a number, come up with your best number, add 25% (THEY want YOU!) and give it to him.
chrysogonus
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by chrysogonus »

One answer is to say "It really depends on the total compensation package - insurance, employer match for 401k, vacation days, stock options/RSUs/other equity." Assuming vacation, stock, etc are important to you, that can give you some wiggle room.

Or, if you have to give a number, try standing in front a mirror saying higher and higher salaries. The one where you start laughing should be your initial offer.
MathWizard
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by MathWizard »

Be very careful about salary neg. for silicon valley. It's easy to lowball yourself.

Use a cost of living comparison tool like
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

You might be surprised how much more you need to live there.

It would be easy going from a midwest town to Silicon Valley or Manhattan
and end up making way too little.

For example, if you lived in Fayetteville AR and made $50K, you'd need to make
over $91K in San Francisco, or
over $124K in Manhattan just to have the same standard of living in Manhattan.

So decide what kind of salary bump you'd need to make you want to move if costs of
living were the same, then plug that number into the cost of living calculator.

Imagine if you said $80K for a job in SanFran, thinking this is 60% more than your $50K,
but it is really only 90% of what you are currently making.
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Methedras
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Re: Help with Salary Negotiation (Bay Area)

Post by Methedras »

So, I consulted with Salary.com and Glassdoor based on the advice in this thread. I also consulted a few cost of living calculators, and looked at some apartments I would be OK with moving into. I actually built a whole cost of living spreadsheet to account for all expenses/taxes I could think of.
In the end I caved and gave the first number (a range actually), but since I am moving from academia to industry, I asked for approximately twice my current salary. This seems high to me at first, but the data seems to indicate it's what I should earn. I valued myself on the high end of the salary data for my position, since they were actively pursuing me.

I apologize if I've been at all ambiguous; I am just a little wary about giving so much info that I could be identified if someone wanted to do some digging.
greg24 wrote:The person who asked you twice to apply, is he the hiring manager? If so, they are pursuing you. Twice they asked you to apply. THEY want YOU.

I would do everything I could to make them give the first number, maybe even jokingly saying "hey, you were the one who wanted me to apply, how about you make the opening bid?"

If you can't get them to give a number, come up with your best number, add 25% (THEY want YOU!) and give it to him.
Yes, the person asking me is the direct hiring manager, in charge of the eventual decision over whether or not I'm hired, and what the eventual salary will be. Now, I didn't see your advice until it was too late, but maybe I should have asked for even more! I hope I didn't undervalue myself; I have a unique and typically hard to find skill set, which is why he was pressing so hard to bring me on.
livesoft wrote:If one is not immediately eligible to contribute to a retirement plan, get a signing bonus to cover that deficiency. An example might be that one is not eligible to sign up for the 401(k) plan for 6 months and there is a company match. I'd ask for an additional $11,500 plus whatever the company match would be as if I had been contributing to the 401(k) for that entire 6 month waiting period.
chrysogonus wrote:One answer is to say "It really depends on the total compensation package - insurance, employer match for 401k, vacation days, stock options/RSUs/other equity." Assuming vacation, stock, etc are important to you, that can give you some wiggle room.

Or, if you have to give a number, try standing in front a mirror saying higher and higher salaries. The one where you start laughing should be your initial offer.
Some great points here. While I did provide a higher end salary range to negotiate within, I did make sure to mention that other parts of the compensation package would impact my desired salary and final decision. Fingers crossed! :beer
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