Where do you store your important documents?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
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Where do you store your important documents?

Safe deposit box in a bank
27
23%
Fire proof Safe in the house
38
32%
A plastic bag, in some corner of your closet
27
23%
Bury it in the back yard
1
1%
Other
27
23%
 
Total votes: 120

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whadyaknow
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Where do you store your important documents?

Post by whadyaknow »

DW and I set up our living trust yesterday and our lawyer advised us to store the original document in a safe deposit box. That got me thinking. So far, I have been storing all important documents in a little carry-on bag, in my closet :)

I was wondering what other Bogleheads do?
Last edited by whadyaknow on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mhc
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by mhc »

You should add "other" category to your choices since your choices do not cover all possibilities.
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Topic Author
whadyaknow
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by whadyaknow »

mhc wrote:You should add "other" category to your choices since your choices do not cover all possibilities.
Done.
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Toons
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Toons »

99.9% are stored in digital format either online or on a couple external drives ,I keep hard copies of Will,Deed,Auto Titles,Birth Certificate in a drawer. :happy

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Last edited by Toons on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sidney
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Sidney »

Our originals (wills) are held by the law firm that prepared them.

I have a copy and key relatives have the name, address and phone number of the firm.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Sheepdog »

I use a bank safety deposit box to store important papers which could be lost, stolen, or even destroyed in a home fireproof safe (extreme fire, tornado, etc.) Stored there are our original revocable trust, auto titles, I Bonds, SPIA, birth certificates, military discharge papers, marriage certificate, house deed, CDs, and others.

I also have a fireproof safe at home where I store other papers which I want to protect, but if lost, I would not be hurt too badly such as tax returns, home and auto insurance policies, house termite insurance, copies of the revocable trust (not the original), cemetery plot deed, etc.
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dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Safe deposit box has paper copies.

Paper copies in a place in my house known to my executor and his backup.

On my pc and backup flash drives, one or two of which periodically is rotated into the safe deposit box.

The only thing that lives just on paper in the house is an appalling number of tax returns and their supporting information, but I have also started scanning them in the last few years and from now on. Those wind up on the flash drives in the safe deposit box also.
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

For people who are keeping the only copies of important documents at the lawyer's office, a caution:

I did that with my original will and trust, and when several years later I wanted to update them, it turned out that the attorney had passed away and the files were gone. This was a respected attorney, but he had died of cancer so I suppose client well being was not at the forefront of his mind.
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whadyaknow
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by whadyaknow »

Folks storing their original will in a bank safe deposit box, aren't you worried that your executor might not get immediate access to your will, delaying execution?
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by jebmke »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:For people who are keeping the only copies of important documents at the lawyer's office, a caution:

I did that with my original will and trust, and when several years later I wanted to update them, it turned out that the attorney had passed away and the files were gone. This was a respected attorney, but he had died of cancer so I suppose client well being was not at the forefront of his mind.
Certainly with a one-man or small outfit with questionable document management practices. Ours were done by a larger firm and we left the originals with them since we were leaving the country shortly thereafter.

We don't have a SDB and I am not sure how someone would get into the box if we were both dead.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Sheepdog
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Sheepdog »

whadyaknow wrote:Folks storing their original will in a bank safe deposit box, aren't you worried that your executor might not get immediate access to your will, delaying execution?
Our trust and will executor's signature is registered to gain access to the safety deposit box, so there will be no delay.
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dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

whadyaknow wrote:Folks storing their original will in a bank safe deposit box, aren't you worried that your executor might not get immediate access to your will, delaying execution?
My executor and I jointly own "my" safe deposit box. I was assured by the credit union that he would have access to it after I croaked. He also has copies (not duplicate originals) of items and other writeups I did so that he knows what to do. He does have an original of the healthcare power of attorney which takes effect if I am incapacitated.

The annual fee for the safe deposit box automatically comes out of my savings account, and I keep several years' worth of fees in there just in case.
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

I use a safe deposit box, and my choice of local brick and mortar bank was based on who charged the least for the size I need. Their checking and savings provisions are a little worse than the best in the vicinity, but the SDB rent is enough lower that I come out ahead anyway, even with giving up a couple of basis points on less than a month's worth of expenses across those two backup accounts. It's also the place I write rare physical checks from, transferring money in as needed.

As I think I've disclosed before so this is nothing new, I own a co-op unit on the 6th floor of a large apartment building. A fire resistant box wouldn't necessarily help me. Should the place burn to the ground I'd be able to recover precisely nothing.

And that's why, although it would be possible to reconstruct some of the documentation using the county clerk's office, I rented the secure space specifically to hold the documents proving I own what would be, under those unfortunate circumstances, an empty space up in the sky pending rebuilding efforts (the co-op carries sufficient insurance to replace the structure if necessary; each owner should carry enough to build out h/er/is interior). They also prove my fully-loaded cost basis (which the county doesn't keep); and include my original note stamped "paid in full."

Because the smallest size box which is adequate for laying my legal-size documents out flat still has extra space I also use it for off-site data backup, but I'm not sure I would rent one solely for that purpose.

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Bill M
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Bill M »

Several categories, depending on how hard the document is to replace. But first, everything is scanned and I have digital copies. Paper copies of things like wills and house deed and mortgage satisfaction document (very very difficult to replace) are in bank safe deposit box. Things like birth certificates, car titles, social security cards (inconvenient to replace) are in a fireproof box in basement.
whadyaknow wrote:Folks storing their original will in a bank safe deposit box, aren't you worried that your executor might not get immediate access to your will, delaying execution?
When we made our wills, our lawyer gave us a sheet of instructions for executor to access the bank vault and get the originals. Our lawyer's office is two doors down from the bank, so going there is the backup procedure. Its not all that simple, but seems the right tradeoff.
Bill M
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Bill M »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:
whadyaknow wrote:Folks storing their original will in a bank safe deposit box, aren't you worried that your executor might not get immediate access to your will, delaying execution?
My executor and I jointly own "my" safe deposit box. I was assured by the credit union that he would have access to it after I croaked. He also has copies (not duplicate originals) of items and other writeups I did so that he knows what to do. He does have an original of the healthcare power of attorney which takes effect if I am incapacitated.

The annual fee for the safe deposit box automatically comes out of my savings account, and I keep several years' worth of fees in there just in case.
State laws differ, but here in New Jersey whenever any of the owners of a safe deposit box die, it is sealed. Getting access requires signing a statement that all owners are still living.
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Bill M wrote:...
State laws differ, but here in New Jersey whenever any of the owners of a safe deposit box die, it is sealed. Getting access requires signing a statement that all owners are still living.
Thoroughly correct, and that's the most crucial point about storing estate documents in a safe deposit box. Where I live the executor can gain access with a probate court order, but in absence of an originally signed will no such order will be forthcoming without additional legal process. It messes a lot of executors, estates, and potential heirs, um, up.

Not only does it depend on state law when one makes the arrangements, it also depends on changes to state law that occur before one shuffles off this mortal coil.

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dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Bill M wrote:...
State laws differ, but here in New Jersey whenever any of the owners of a safe deposit box die, it is sealed. Getting access requires signing a statement that all owners are still living.
Thoroughly correct, and that's the most crucial point about storing estate documents in a safe deposit box. Where I live the executor can gain access with a probate court order, but in absence of an originally signed will no such order will be forthcoming without additional legal process. It messes a lot of executors, estates, and potential heirs, um, up.

Not only does it depend on state law when one makes the arrangements, it also depends on changes to state law that occur before one shuffles off this mortal coil.

PJW
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DonCamillo
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by DonCamillo »

Bill M wrote: State laws differ, but here in New Jersey whenever any of the owners of a safe deposit box die, it is sealed. Getting access requires signing a statement that all owners are still living.
I do not believe that is current NJ law.
From Martin A. Spigner, a NJ estate planning attorney: http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/estat ... 37812.html
If there was a will in existence and you admitted it to probate thereby being appointed executor by the Surrogate Court, you are entitled access to the safe deposit box without any bank official or NJ Division of Taxation official present. The rules sealing a safe deposit box after death and having it opened in the presence of a bank and/or tax official were repealed decades ago. If you have not yet been appointed, you are still permitted limited access to the safe deposit box in order to gain access for obtaining the will and/or other documents you might need for administration of the estate or to obtain beneficiary death benefits, such as life insurance.
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by joe8d »

File Cabinet.
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ncg1983
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by ncg1983 »

My wife and I just went through a similar process as we had our first child. We have put important documents - Will, Deed to House, Car Titles, SS Cards, Birth Certificates, Passports, Life Insurance Contract etc. in a fire/water chest safe. It is not bolted so could be stolen but weighs 50+ lbs. and will protect from fire and water. Cheap, easy investment - and free shipping from Amazon!

http://www.honeywellstore.com/products/ ... -chest.htm
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

ncg1983 wrote:My wife and I just went through a similar process as we had our first child. We have put important documents - Will, Deed to House, Car Titles, SS Cards, Birth Certificates, Passports, Life Insurance Contract etc. in a fire/water chest safe. It is not bolted so could be stolen but weighs 50+ lbs. and will protect from fire and water. Cheap, easy investment - and free shipping from Amazon!

http://www.honeywellstore.com/products/ ... -chest.htm
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by jebmke »

ncg1983 wrote:will protect from fire
Probably not a good house fire.
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chaz
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by chaz »

In a desk drawer.
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Trader Joe
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Trader Joe »

I story my important documents in a very important place.
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by bertilak »

I store important documents in a cardboard box LABELED "safe deposit box."

That's because I used t have them in a real safe deposit box in a bank but found that too inconvenient so moved everything home. If I had stacks of gold coins I would probably put the in a safe deposit box in a bank.

This is an interesting thread because I am still trying to decide on what's the right thing to do.
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ML 59
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by ML 59 »

In a small town, there is a limited number of safe deposit boxes.

I use a fire resistant document safe inside a fire resistant gun safe bolted to a concrete floor inside a steel building away from the house. I don't recall the time/temp ratings for each - hopefully long enough for the FD to do their thing. Perhaps not the best, but it's the best I have for now.
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:...
"If a box is jointly leased, the death of a lessee does not affect the right to access the box or to remove the contents thereof for the surviving lessee unless there is a contract clause to the contrary."
That may easily be. Will you be so kind as to tell us precisely what you're quoting, and provide a link?
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wesef
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by wesef »

Dropbox, mostly, in an encrypted container. Perhaps this is generational, but I feel far more secure with that than I would with a safe deposit box or a home safe. I suppose that the op was more interested in storage of hard copy documents, but in almost every case a copy is as good as an original, or the original can be replaced, so I don't pay much mind to how the original is stored. I haven't gotten to the point where I've scanned and shredded everything, but hopefully well get there eventually. Might keep the marriage certificate around. :-)
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Steelersfan
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Steelersfan »

Fireproof (?) box in the spare room big enough to hold about 5 inches of documents.
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whadyaknow
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by whadyaknow »

wesef wrote:Dropbox, mostly, in an encrypted container. Perhaps this is generational, but I feel far more secure with that than I would with a safe deposit box or a home safe. I suppose that the op was more interested in storage of hard copy documents, but in almost every case a copy is as good as an original, or the original can be replaced, so I don't pay much mind to how the original is stored. I haven't gotten to the point where I've scanned and shredded everything, but hopefully well get there eventually. Might keep the marriage certificate around. :-)
OP here :). I store scanned copies of ALL documents in the cloud. In fact, I've some redundancy going on with two separate encrypted stores - one is TrueCrypt + Dropbox and the other is Wuala :wink: I agree that in most cases, a copy is as good as an original, or can be used to obtain an original (Passport, Social Security Card, etc.). But I do have some hard to replace originals like my non-US birth certificate and marriage certificate. It'd be nice to have a safe place for them.
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avp1234
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by avp1234 »

We have a large fireproof safe that's bolted to the floor and use that for most things. Deeds, mortgage release, title abstract etc. are in a drawer, because these things are all required to be recorded with the county office. Once recorded, a certified copy is as good as the original, so if lost it makes no difference. We do keep our original will in the safe, because a copy can't be probated in the state I live in.
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Garco
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Garco »

Sidney wrote:Our originals (wills) are held by the law firm that prepared them.

I have a copy and key relatives have the name, address and phone number of the firm.
DITTO.

The lawyer also has:

* originals of trusts, financial power of attorney, patient advocate, and advanced directives ("do not resuscitate" declarations)
* names and contact information of our children

In addition, the lawyer has copies of key documents:

* birth certificates
* marriage certificates
* home title deed
* car title
* insurance providers including LTC insurance
* drivers licenses
* passports
* social security cards

He also has:

* account numbers and ownership of all investment accounts and funds
* numbers and locations of bank accounts
* location of our safe deposit box
pamela.day
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by pamela.day »

I have most documents kept in a fireproof security safe in the home, hidden away. I can't say that it's that heavy, but that is what I have for the time being.
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by core4portfolio »

Google drive
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vitaflo
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by vitaflo »

Backed up to my file server and a cloud backup service. Still don't understand everyone's facinatiion with paper.
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Garco
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by Garco »

vitaflo wrote:Backed up to my file server and a cloud backup service. Still don't understand everyone's facinatiion with paper.
This is fine, but what steps have you taken to be assured that your family can find this information in the event of your sudden death? Have you given access to your file server and/or cloud backup to a lawyer or other family members? I think this is important -- that somebody, perhaps a lawyer or other trusted person, have access to copies of your key documents.
gerrym51
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by gerrym51 »

copies of everything in my wife's desk. originals of everything in a bank safety deposit box.
carolinaman
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by carolinaman »

DonCamillo wrote:
Bill M wrote: State laws differ, but here in New Jersey whenever any of the owners of a safe deposit box die, it is sealed. Getting access requires signing a statement that all owners are still living.
I do not believe that is current NJ law.
From Martin A. Spigner, a NJ estate planning attorney: http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/estat ... 37812.html
If there was a will in existence and you admitted it to probate thereby being appointed executor by the Surrogate Court, you are entitled access to the safe deposit box without any bank official or NJ Division of Taxation official present. The rules sealing a safe deposit box after death and having it opened in the presence of a bank and/or tax official were repealed decades ago. If you have not yet been appointed, you are still permitted limited access to the safe deposit box in order to gain access for obtaining the will and/or other documents you might need for administration of the estate or to obtain beneficiary death benefits, such as life insurance.
VA works the same way. I was executor for my mother's estate and once I presented proof of probate and my role as executor, I was allowed access to her safety deposit box.
SomeGuy
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Re: Where do you store your important documents?

Post by SomeGuy »

Almost all are stored online with a cloud storage service in a client-side encrypted folder. The encrypted folder is also replicated on several of our PCs and phones. The passwords for the cloud service and the folder and very long random strings and are stored in a password locker. The key to that locker is known to myself, my spouse, and a trusted friend.
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