Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

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brainstem
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Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by brainstem »

Many on this board are worth a well over a million dollars.
Lately my wife and I have considered a retirement review by TIAA-CREF - but I am reluctant to disclose our total assets to a corporate entity.
All of them have vaguely worded releases that allow them to share your data.
I am concerned that I would have a database somewhere that says that I am worth XYZ - a valuable piece of information for marketers, scammers, criminals etc.
Granted, our credit cards and other daily activities offer up a public profile of a certain amount of wealth.
Do others have these concerns about letting one party know all of your assets? Does anyone have cautionary experiences in letting such information become databased?
Does this worry change if you have $x,000,000 or $x0,000,000?
Does value of the consulting comments outweigh downstream risks? (TIAA, Schwab, Vanguard)? I have accounts with all three and am least inclined to share with Schwab.
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bengal22
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by bengal22 »

I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley
RobInCT
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by RobInCT »

Do you own a house? Is it one commensurate with your net worth? Property records are public. Have you applied for a credit card and disclosed your salary in connection with the application? Where do you keep you money? They certainly know how much you have there.

I guess you could go to extraordinary lengths to hide your net worth tracks--living in a modest property, avoiding credit cards, dividing your assets among 10 or more financial institutions, maybe even opening a bank account overseas in a country with higher levels of bank secrecy laws. But to what end? Avoiding marketing solicitations? "Criminals" go after accounts they can get at, regardless of how much (or how little) is contained in the account. And if by some chance some criminal were going through a database trying to pick out specific individuals to target, you can take comfort in the fact that there are probably many individuals in the database with net worth much higher than yours that they'd go after first.
sscritic
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by sscritic »

Here are your choices:

Get a financial review based on numbers you just made up.
Get a financial review based on real numbers.
Don't get a financial review.

I assume you already have money at TIAA since you are considering them as the reviewer. They already know something about you (as they do I). I get ads from them all the time. If I told them more, I don't think I would get more ads than I already do.

Only slightly off topic, I note that many posters tell Vanguard about their outside investments and do so in spite of any fears about Bill McNabb calling them on the phone.
The Wizard
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by The Wizard »

Back when I had annual reviews with my TIAA-CREF WMA, I did mention I had additional funds in my Vanguard account but avoided saying how much. I kept the focus of the meeting on my T-C funds, not on any scheme for aggregating funds from elsewhere.
I don't recall any problems doing this...
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

1 Get a financial review based on numbers you just made up.
2 Get a financial review based on real numbers.
3 Don't get a financial review
I have done #1 3 times. First time, the "advisor" recommended I sell everything and put all the money into American funds with a 1% load.

Second time, advisor recommended that I sell everything and give it to him to manage at no cost to me because "the funds pay him, so it doesn't cost me anything".

Third time, advisor recommended I sell everything and put all the money into a whole life policy.

3 different advisors. I took NONE of their advice.

Now I stick with #3. Or if I want to see how things are going on my retirement timeline, I do an online tool check, like what Fidelity has or add to my own excel spreadsheet.
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cherijoh
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by cherijoh »

bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
I don't agree with you here - a LBYM Boglehead could have the same spending patterns as someone who has a much lower net worth who lives paycheck to paycheck.
JW-Retired
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by JW-Retired »

What benefits you for them to know all about your complete finances? ..... i.e., how vital is this "retirement review?"

We have accounts with Vanguard, Fidelity, and the 401k admin. None of them have any information beyond their individual account. I've always followed the practice that if you want to keep information private then don't give it out to anyone. It works pretty well. :oops:
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jebmke
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by jebmke »

sscritic wrote:Here are your choices:

Get a financial review based on numbers you just made up.
Get a financial review based on real numbers.
Don't get a financial review.

I assume you already have money at TIAA since you are considering them as the reviewer. They already know something about you (as they do I). I get ads from them all the time. If I told them more, I don't think I would get more ads than I already do.

Only slightly off topic, I note that many posters tell Vanguard about their outside investments and do so in spite of any fears about Bill McNabb calling them on the phone.
We had a complete review by VG done 10 years ago. Some of the outside assets have been liquidated and consolidated with VG already but some have not. We have never been called or solicited about the assets that we still hold outside VG.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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villars
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by villars »

For those who have gotten "professional" financial reviews, did they get any more info than what you get on this board?
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
1 Get a financial review based on numbers you just made up.
2 Get a financial review based on real numbers.
3 Don't get a financial review
I have done #1 3 times. First time, the "advisor" recommended I sell everything and put all the money into American funds with a 1% load.

Second time, advisor recommended that I sell everything and give it to him to manage at no cost to me because "the funds pay him, so it doesn't cost me anything".

Third time, advisor recommended I sell everything and put all the money into a whole life policy.

3 different advisors. I took NONE of their advice.

Now I stick with #3. Or if I want to see how things are going on my retirement timeline, I do an online tool check, like what Fidelity has or add to my own excel spreadsheet.
Ouch!

I definitely don't want this crowd knowing my net worth!

We play it very close to the chest which is easier because we do a good job on the LBYMs front and our house is definitely not in line with what all of our colleagues live in and we also live in a low COL area compared to most of them (amazing what happens when you drive west instead of east in our area!).

This reluctance did have repercussions recently. We got a Costco Amex card (finally broke down - free money) and on my recent statement, there was a 29.00 charge for going over the credit limit. Needless to say, I wasn't about to pay this. The rep at Amex reversed it after my explanations as to why it was ridiculous. (Like why doesn't the card get declined if it goes over the limit - oh so many cards we can't keep track of that - ROFLMAO - would I like a text or e-mail notification when I get near the limit - DUH! She said that given my 'income', I had alot of credit and she couldn't put the limit up as it was a new card but she would leave a note for when they reviewed it in 2 months. I only have one other credit card, a Visa that is paid of in full each month, and the LOC on the house which is never used. Anyway, on the Amex application I would have put down a lower income than we have and this may have impacted things.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

cherijoh wrote:
bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
I don't agree with you here - a LBYM Boglehead could have the same spending patterns as someone who has a much lower net worth who lives paycheck to paycheck.
+1

This would be us and I suspect many Bogleheads.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
Saving$
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Saving$ »

Do you have an umbrella policy? If so, you were probably required to disclose your net worth in bracketed amounts. Thus your insurer knows.

Other than that, I agree with the reluctance to disclose. That is why I am reluctant to put all my accounts in the Fidelity All View. And my housing and spending habitats are DEFINITELY way LBYM.
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Rob5TCP
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Rob5TCP »

6miths wrote:
cherijoh wrote:
bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
I don't agree with you here - a LBYM Boglehead could have the same spending patterns as someone who has a much lower net worth who lives paycheck to paycheck.
+1

This would be us and I suspect many Bogleheads.
Yes, but people living paycheck to paycheck don't have 780 and higher credit scores. They don't just look at one number.
Unless you freeze your credit scores; they can be known. There are so many criteria they use; it's hard to escape.

I have VERY high monthly spending on my credit card (for business software I sell); the frequently run well into 5 figures
a month. Yet my personal (and I charge everything to get 2% back); is in low 4 figures.

Since I froze my credit scores, much of this should be unavailable (I hope). I use a Tor browser so sites don't know what I peruse.
Still, you can not escape it in the long run. Unless you pay cash and stay offline.
livesoft
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by livesoft »

I got a postcard in the mail from TIAA-CREF to sign up for a free face-to-face apointment to review my investments. Probably because of my age more than anything else. I would have no qualms about revealing all my investments to them. They don't bug me now except with occasional mailings and I don't bug them much either.

Vanguard can know all my assets if they look at what I have entered on their Portfolio Watch tool.
Fidelity can know all my assets if they look at what I have entered on their Guided Portfolio Summary tool.

I have accounts at WellsFargo and at TDAmeritrade, too.

None of these financial institutions try to solicit more business from me beyond an occasional heads-up invitation in the mail.

Anyways, I might sign up for the TIAA-CREF face-to-face thing, so that they can explain to me in person how I can move my money away from them.
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JW-Retired
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by JW-Retired »

Saving$ wrote: Do you have an umbrella policy? If so, you were probably required to disclose your net worth in bracketed amounts. Thus your insurer knows.
Is this something new? We have had an umbrella for 20-something years. Never was any such disclosure. My insurer just knows about my house.
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RobInCT
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by RobInCT »

I see lots of people discussing why they think information about their income and net worth isn't knowable by financial companies and the like. I don't see anyone pointing to more-than-hypothetical negative consequences of having the information known.

If you just don't want companies knowing because you just don't, that's fine. But if you want to use services that are dependent upon their having the information (e.g. retirement planning, higher-limit credit cards), then it really just depends on how much you want the service versus how much you just don't want to give the info out. I certainly wouldn't go to a retirement planner and give them made-up numbers. That makes about as much sense to me as going to the doctor and giving him made-up symptoms. If you truly value someone's professional advice then you need to show them the professional courtesy of giving them access to all the information they might reasonably need to provide you with the advice you asked them for. If you don't trust them with the info, then why are you asking them for advice in the first place?

I wonder if some of this is generational. My mother still shreds her credit card receipts. I assume that credit card thieves have methods better than digging through my trash to achieve their goal. I use hard-to-guess passwords and change them at least once a year or more often if I hear there's been a security breach. I don't use the same password for, e.g., Vanguard as I do for, e.g., Facebook. I don't log into any of my accounts while using an unfamiliar computer. I don't access secure websites by clicking through links (e.g. in email or on message boards) to get there. I don't open attachments to emails unless I know the person sending it, and it's something I might reasonably expect them to send me. I don't answer my phone if it's a number I don't recognize, and don't respond to solicitations via email or regular mail.

Beyond, that, meh. I'm not particularly concerned that someone may get my name as part of a list of people who have above-average net worth. I'm above-average but so are millions of other people.
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Flobes
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Flobes »

JW Nearly Retired wrote:
Saving$ wrote: Do you have an umbrella policy? If so, you were probably required to disclose your net worth in bracketed amounts. Thus your insurer knows.
Is this something new? We have had an umbrella for 20-something years. Never was any such disclosure. My insurer just knows about my house.
JW
I very recently bought umbrella insurance for the first time. I was not asked about my net worth. Insurance company knows I have a 6-year old Honda and a small, inexpensive 16-year old home. They were eager to sell me an umbrella policy in any amount of my choosing.
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Zabar
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Zabar »

bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
Agreed. I've found that as my net worth has increased, the number of solicitations I receive each month has gone down significantly. It seems that the target market for such things is not people who apparently are good with money.
Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Louis Winthorpe III »

6miths wrote:We got a Costco Amex card (finally broke down - free money) and on my recent statement, there was a 29.00 charge for going over the credit limit. Needless to say, I wasn't about to pay this. The rep at Amex reversed it after my explanations as to why it was ridiculous. (Like why doesn't the card get declined if it goes over the limit - oh so many cards we can't keep track of that - ROFLMAO - would I like a text or e-mail notification when I get near the limit - DUH! She said that given my 'income', I had alot of credit and she couldn't put the limit up as it was a new card but she would leave a note for when they reviewed it in 2 months. I only have one other credit card, a Visa that is paid of in full each month, and the LOC on the house which is never used. Anyway, on the Amex application I would have put down a lower income than we have and this may have impacted things.
Amex did nothing wrong. Regardless of what your credit limit is, it's up to you to pay attention to whether you're approaching it or not. With two credit cards, that should be pretty easy. And you're acting like the CSR was stupid for asking whether you want them to notify you if you are approaching your limit, but it never occurred to you to set up alerts on your own when you got the card with a low limit. And after low-balling your income on the application, it shouldn't surprise you they couldn't just raise your limit based on your true income.

However, the CSR was wrong about why your card wasn't just declined. It's because a lot of people don't want their cards declined for going over the limit. If they pull the card out to buy something, they want to be able to buy it, and they might or might not have another way of paying for it. You're expecting Amex to guess your preference when your preference is probably the minority among their customers.
Last edited by Louis Winthorpe III on Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gnirk
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Gnirk »

cherijoh wrote:
bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY. I would not worry about it if you feel the need for financial advice.
I don't agree with you here - a LBYM Boglehead could have the same spending patterns as someone who has a much lower net worth who lives paycheck to paycheck.
+1
sscritic
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by sscritic »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote: However, the CSR was wrong about why your card wasn't just declined. It's because a lot of people don't want their cards declined for going over the limit. If they pull the card out to buy something, they want to be able to buy it, and they might or might not have another way of paying for it.
And they don't want to be embarrassed in front of total strangers when their card is declined. "Man, there goes another boglehead who is just a deadbeat who doesn't pay his bills."

I know I don't need that.

P.S. Thanks to 6miths for making me look at my credit limit. I still have a long ways to go before I hit it. I never charge that much, so I often don't even look that closely when I get a new card. I probably did look when I got my Costco Amex in May, but I definitely had forgotten the number by this morning.
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

What do I care if my card is declined. I'd rather have that happen than get charged 29 bucks for going over it. It's just another money maker. How hard would it be for Amex to let me pick 'Decline purchase if card will be over limit' rather than just notify me when I am getting close to the limit. What I was surprised by was that Amex would let the card go over the limit. What is the limit for? What does limit mean? Seems we have different definitions... I can keep track of my cards just fine with only 2, it was the rep who said that Amex couldn't keep track of the cards - this is patently false and hilarious. Just call it what it is. Definitely my fault for not reading the fine print and recognize that this is the way business works these days. My assumption was that if I got to the limit, that was it - declined - my bad. At any rate, they reversed the charge and I am wiser. If I make the mistake again, I'll cut the card up and they'll lose the business no big deal for either party.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
Jack
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Jack »

sscritic wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote: However, the CSR was wrong about why your card wasn't just declined. It's because a lot of people don't want their cards declined for going over the limit. If they pull the card out to buy something, they want to be able to buy it, and they might or might not have another way of paying for it.
And they don't want to be embarrassed in front of total strangers when their card is declined.
The Credit Card Act of 2009 prohibits banks from charging an over-limit fee unless you specifically opt in to allow over-limit charges. The default now is to disallow over-limit charges. The banks fought the new law tooth and nail because a large part of their profits come from such fees. They did not want to even give you the option of declining over-limit charges.

If you were charged an over-limit fee, somewhere along the line in the fine print you opted in.
sscritic
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by sscritic »

Jack wrote: The Credit Card Act of 2009 prohibits banks from charging an over-limit fee unless you specifically opt in to allow over-limit charges. The default now is to disallow over-limit charges. The banks fought the new law tooth and nail because a large part of their profits come from such fees. They did not want to even give you the option of declining over-limit charges.

If you were charged an over-limit fee, somewhere along the line in the fine print you opted in.
Thanks for making me look. I don't have an overlimit fee on my Costco Amex. My card is not his card.

Code: Select all

Overlimit       None. See Credit limit and cash advance limit in Part 2.
We may approve charges that cause your Account balance to go over your Credit Limit. If we do this, we will not charge an overlimit fee. If we ask you to promptly pay the amount of your Account balance above your Credit Limit, you agree to do so.
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House Blend
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by House Blend »

brainstem wrote:Do others have these concerns about letting one party know all of your assets?
Does value of the consulting comments outweigh downstream risks? (TIAA, Schwab, Vanguard)? I have accounts with all three and am least inclined to share with Schwab.
I have accounts at T-C and VG.

Every so often T-C tries to bring me into their Wealth Management domain, but I resist. They want to know about my accounts elsewhere, but I keep them in the dark. I limit my interactions with them to procedural matters, such as: what are my options for annuitization, or changing beneficiaries, etc. I don't ask for and don't want their investment advice.

But my resistance is based on a slightly different concern than yours; namely, that their wealth managers' compensation is based in part on assets retained and new assets brought in. (AFAIK, this is not true for VG reps.)
ASUGrad
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by ASUGrad »

jebmke wrote:
sscritic wrote:
Only slightly off topic, I note that many posters tell Vanguard about their outside investments and do so in spite of any fears about Bill McNabb calling them on the phone.
We had a complete review by VG done 10 years ago. Some of the outside assets have been liquidated and consolidated with VG already but some have not. We have never been called or solicited about the assets that we still hold outside VG.
I can second this. I did a rollover of a pension to VG about a year ago. During the process I also told them about a 401k I had with the same previous employer. They politely asked me if I would like to consolidate it as well. I told them why I didn't want to move it, the rep respected my decision and didn't bring it back up. I've had to call them since and no one has brought it up, nor have I received a single phone call, mailer, or email about moving it. The 401k was also many times larger than the pension so it wasn't because of a low amount. I personally wouldn't have any concerns about telling VG about my other accounts... actually I have them listed in my 'other accounts' on the VG website so I know they know they are there.

On that note I also haven't received calls/mailers from any other companies that would lead me to believe VG passes along the information.

If you have accounts with VG I would have them do the review. Depending on assets its free, but they aren't going to harass you about outside assets. They probably also aren't going to sell you whole life insurance policies, loaded funds, or anything expensive. I imagine they will recommend a lot of low cost index funds which I imagine is what you want anyway. :mrgreen:
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

Jack wrote:
sscritic wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote: However, the CSR was wrong about why your card wasn't just declined. It's because a lot of people don't want their cards declined for going over the limit. If they pull the card out to buy something, they want to be able to buy it, and they might or might not have another way of paying for it.
And they don't want to be embarrassed in front of total strangers when their card is declined.
The Credit Card Act of 2009 prohibits banks from charging an over-limit fee unless you specifically opt in to allow over-limit charges. The default now is to disallow over-limit charges. The banks fought the new law tooth and nail because a large part of their profits come from such fees. They did not want to even give you the option of declining over-limit charges.

If you were charged an over-limit fee, somewhere along the line in the fine print you opted in.
Thanks Jack that is great. The Rep I was talking to didn't provide this as an option, even under direct query. As far as opting in to letting the card go over the limit for a 29 dollar charge - well nuff said. I am in Canada, home of the highest mutual fund fees in the world so it is possible that the financial companies hold more sway here. I will look at the web site and try to find to 'off' button. If not I'll call them back and talk to a person. Imagine, the banks and credit card companies fighting to let people spend more than their limits - oh my. No nothing 'wrong' at all. Nothing to see here folks, nothing to see here...

Thanks again for the info.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
sscritic
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by sscritic »

6miths wrote: Thanks Jack that is great. The Rep I was talking to didn't provide this as an option, even under direct query. As far as opting in to letting the card go over the limit for a 29 dollar charge - well nuff said. I am in Canada, home of the highest mutual fund fees in the world so it is possible that the financial companies hold more sway here. I will look at the web site and try to find to 'off' button. If not I'll call them back and talk to a person. Imagine, the banks and credit card companies fighting to let people spend more than their limits - oh my. No nothing 'wrong' at all. Nothing to see here folks, nothing to see here...
I don't think US laws apply in Canada. To see what your Agreement says, login and click on Card Member Agreement on the left hand side of the Home page. But then my Costco AMEX website is the US one, not the Canadian one, so your link might be located in a different place on your Home page.

https://online.americanexpress.com/myca/acctmgmt/us/......

P.S. I changed my country to Canada. That gave me the option to use French, something I can't do on the US site.
Code ou mot de passe oublié?
https://www.americanexpress.com/canada/fr/....
Last edited by sscritic on Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mptfan
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by mptfan »

bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY.
Spending and net worth are two entirely different things.
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

Thanks sscritic. I went on the Canadian website and couldn't find it. There are many alerts that can be set but nothing to get it declined when a charge will put it over the limit. I did ask the rep about this the other day and no joy. I'll have to call again. Definitely, Canada is a whole other country when it comes to Laws. Go figure! :happy
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
MnD
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by MnD »

I use an account integrator service at Fidelity so they know everything.
Also at Schwab because I use their portfolio tools that include outside accounts.
Also at a third-party web-based service.

I've never had any direct investment solicitations from them or any other entities.
We get a few "premium" credit card offers in the mail and any unsolicited retail store catalogs we get are from nice stores.
That's about it.
70/30 AA for life, Global market cap equity. Rebalance if fixed income <25% or >35%. Weighted ER< .10%. 5% of annual portfolio balance SWR, Proportional (to AA) withdrawals.
postingname
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by postingname »

JW Nearly Retired wrote:What benefits you for them to know all about your complete finances? ..... i.e., how vital is this "retirement review?"
I went through a planning review at one time with my brokerage. It was before I knew better. I learned a few things, like the need for umbrella insurance, but that and everything else I subsequently learned from this board. During the review, I gave complete and accurate financial information. Now that I'm wiser, my "profile" at the brokerage (which is filled out by me online) is deliberately inaccurate. If I ever need special services from the brokerage, I suppose I can re-inflate my profile to normal as they don't seem to keep track. But I don't anticipate needing their special services.
investor
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by investor »

credit card companies have no knowledge of my net worth or even if I am even working or not. They just know I pay my debts on time and use little of the available credit. My FICO scores are very high. Was never asked about net worth by insurance company and have had umbrella for years. Vanguard knows only about the money on account with them.

investor
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bengal22
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by bengal22 »

mptfan wrote:
bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY.
Spending and net worth are two entirely different things.
My point is that there is a very sophisticated data gathering organization out there that through all of our interactions pretty well know everything about us regarding ALL personal financial matters: savings, spending, investing, charitable donations, etc.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley
mptfan
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by mptfan »

bengal22 wrote:
mptfan wrote:
bengal22 wrote:I would suspect "they" already know. If you spend time on the computer or buy with plastic, there is loads of data on your spending habits, your leisure time habits, etc. etc. etc. THEY KNOW ALREADY.
Spending and net worth are two entirely different things.
My point is that there is a very sophisticated data gathering organization out there that through all of our interactions pretty well know everything about us regarding ALL personal financial matters: savings, spending, investing, charitable donations, etc.
I beg to differ. There are no data gathering organizations out there that know how much I have in investments or savings.
The Wizard
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by The Wizard »

If you go to Las Vegas a lot, it might be better to let them know how far into nine figures you are. Whales get lots more comps...
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peregrine
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by peregrine »

About 10 years ago, in the course of my work with a university I was presented with a list of alumni. For each alum on the list, the alumni association had listed a salary and a net worth. I do not know how the alumni association obtained this information but I doubt it was revealed voluntarily. I was told this information was confidential. I was asked whether I knew any of these people well enough that I could solicit them to donate to the university. This was an eye opening experience for me. I realized how much information could be obtained by someone who really wanted to find it out. If you think any of this information is truly private, think again.
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mrpotatoheadsays
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by mrpotatoheadsays »

brainstem wrote: Do others have these concerns about letting one party know all of your assets? Does anyone have cautionary experiences in letting such information become databased?
I have concerns about letting anyone know anything about my assets. I provide as little personal information as I possibly can to everyone. For example, on my mortgage application, I provided a partial list of assets.

I have noted my information being shared or sold to other parties, and I don't appreciate that at all. For example, my employer shared my 401K balance with a retirement planning firm. Personally, I felt this was illegal, but it wouldn't make sense for me to threaten my employer.

There is an entire industry out there looking to nab "affluent" households... selling them advice and junk they don't need.
AddingUp
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by AddingUp »

mrpotatoheadsays wrote:
brainstem wrote: Do others have these concerns about letting one party know all of your assets? Does anyone have cautionary experiences in letting such information become databased?
I have concerns about letting anyone know anything about my assets. I provide as little personal information as I possibly can to everyone. For example, on my mortgage application, I provided a partial list of assets.

I have noted my information being shared or sold to other parties, and I don't appreciate that at all. For example, my employer shared my 401K balance with a retirement planning firm. Personally, I felt this was illegal, but it wouldn't make sense for me to threaten my employer.

There is an entire industry out there looking to nab "affluent" households... selling them advice and junk they don't need.

+1!

In the same vein, when I had to disclose my salary recently to rent an apartment, I fudged it much lower than what it truly is. My rationale being that, in the future, I didn't want them to increase my rent relative to my salary.
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Hayden
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Hayden »

I used to get phone calls that began something like, "since you're an accredited investor". I would always say, no, I am not. They were always flummoxed, as their data said that I was.

I take it for granted that people can access this info. I have been required to provide it at various times, and I know (because they've told me), that organizations that have my data have been hacked. Right now, one of these organizations is paying for credit monitoring for me. Best I can do is be careful.
postingname
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by postingname »

Hayden wrote:I used to get phone calls that began something like, "since you're an accredited investor". I would always say, no, I am not. They were always flummoxed, as their data said that I was.
I can help you there. I don't even give my phone number out to my brokerage. When it became mandatory to fill in the telephone field on the online profile, I just put in a fake number. I immediately stopped getting all those pesky calls at dinnertime to answer their customer satisfaction surveys. And no doubt, it's prevented them from selling my phone number -- with all the attached information -- to other companies. There hasn't been any downside to this and I still get the royal treatment given that I have a lot of assets with them.
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6miths
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by 6miths »

I've started putting the fake number in sometimes too. It's one that I know is answered by a voice mail system at a big corp. Figure the machines can have a pleasant conversation.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
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windaar
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by windaar »

Every so often T-C tries to bring me into their Wealth Management domain, but I resist.
I had one meeting with a T/C WMA a few years back and was underwhelmed. The advisor kept mispronouncing (really) the company's name, and seemed to know less about the fine points of T/C fund details than I did. I do like using T/C for my 403(b) retirement because of TIAA Traditional and TREA. I will pass on further meetings with WMAs though.
Nobody knows nothing.
epitomist
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by epitomist »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
1 Get a financial review based on numbers you just made up.
2 Get a financial review based on real numbers.
3 Don't get a financial review
I have done #1 3 times. First time, the "advisor" recommended I sell everything and put all the money into American funds with a 1% load.

Second time, advisor recommended that I sell everything and give it to him to manage at no cost to me because "the funds pay him, so it doesn't cost me anything".

Third time, advisor recommended I sell everything and put all the money into a whole life policy.

3 different advisors. I took NONE of their advice.

Now I stick with #3. Or if I want to see how things are going on my retirement timeline, I do an online tool check, like what Fidelity has or add to my own excel spreadsheet.
In 2Q 2007 I had a Merrill Lynch advisor tell me that I should mortgage my house to the hilt (i.e. take out an additional $200,000 in equity) and put of all my investments into high fee funds.

I would only ever deal with a Vanguard advisor. Anyone else I'm convinced is just selling you the highest commission product that is available to them and beyond that they will do everything possible to increase the amount of money you put into those high commission products.
fposte
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by fposte »

peregrine wrote:About 10 years ago, in the course of my work with a university I was presented with a list of alumni. For each alum on the list, the alumni association had listed a salary and a net worth. I do not know how the alumni association obtained this information but I doubt it was revealed voluntarily. [. . .] I realized how much information could be obtained by someone who really wanted to find it out.
That's a whole career field, in fact; it's called prospect research. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_research
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InvestorNewb
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by InvestorNewb »

Why not post your retirement review here, at Bogleheads.org? The forums were created for that purpose.

I think a lot of us came here for advice because we weren't happy with the options/advice given to us by our banks.
My Portfolio: VTI [US], VXUS [Int'l], VNQ [REIT], VCN [Canada] (largest to smallest)
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

If I ever become an evil overlord "I will remember that any vulnerabilities I have are to be revealed strictly on a need-to-know basis. I will also remember that no one needs to know."
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jdb
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by jdb »

I can understand concerns to keep credit card numbers and bank account numbers confidential, also SS and drivers license numbers. But a little taken aback by sensitivity to financial institutions having asset info especially when asking them for financial advice based on assets. Bulk of our liquid assets are at Vanguard and of course our Flagship rep knows details but so what. Our Wells Fargo bank rep knows details of our bank account. These institutions have strong privacy rules.
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brainstem
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Re: Fear of Disclosing Net Worth

Post by brainstem »

Our Wells Fargo bank rep knows details of our bank account. These institutions have strong privacy rules.
jdb -- I would strongly suggest you read the privacy rules of Wells -- it probably gives them the right to share your data with business partners ---- how do you define such a strong privacy safeguard?
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