What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

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hackermb
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What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by hackermb »

House is listed for 325,000 with a possible shortsale our bid was 305,000.

Only good comp for the neighborhood was a March sale at 325,000 for same floor plan and layout etc...

Major differences this house needs exterior paint the front is brick with sides and back hardiplank siding for 2500 sqft house...Im estimating 5,000 to paint.
Other house had finished basement and this house does not 10-15k unless I do the work myself which I plan on doing so roughly 5000 in materials
new carpet for roughly 1000 sqft = 5,000
this house needs a fridge = 1500
other odds and ends another = 3000

Puts this house at 324,500 my cost or 335,000 if I have someone do the basement.

This house is on the tee box on the golf course the other house is on a side street without any golf course view. This was a development so the other house has a house right in its backyard.

These two houses are on the lower side of the neighborhood price range with the average being around 400K I would presume.

They will be asking for best and final today or tomorrow, did I offer enough, too much any thoughts on how much premium to give the golf course view.
livesoft
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by livesoft »

I'd rebid 305,000 or if I was feeling good 306,000. The golf course view is worth nothing in my opinion. It might even be a liability.

The last time someone asked me for my final offer, I did basically rebid. They were surprised, but they accepted it.
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Mike Scott
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by Mike Scott »

How badly do you want to live on a golf course?
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HardKnocker
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by HardKnocker »

The golf course frontage is worth something if you like golf and can sneak on the course to play for free.

All kidding aside, don't pay more than you think it's worth. Don't get caught up in a bidding war. Be willing to walk away.
Last edited by HardKnocker on Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jlawrence01
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by jlawrence01 »

Two warnings about living on a gold course:

1) If the design was not well thought out, you will be pelted by golf balls. I have a friend with a house adjacent to a course in North Carolina and he generally finds 6-12 gold balls in the yard daily. Personally, I don't want balls hit in my direction as I am enjoying breakfast on my patio.

2) Golf is in a pretty steep decline and there are MANY courses that are shutting down and closing. Every night, my wife and I hike one of these abandoned gold courses which amounts to a 3-5 mile hike. We look at the homes overlooking the course and wonder how much of a premium these people paid for their home that has evaporated. The worse part is that this is a desert region so the green grass has turned to brush.

Make sure you understand what the fees are and whether you need to join the golf course as a deed restriction.
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HardKnocker
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by HardKnocker »

jlawrence01 wrote:Two warnings about living on a gold course:

1) ... I have a friend with a house adjacent to a course in North Carolina and he generally finds 6-12 gold balls in the yard daily. Personally, I don't want balls hit in my direction as I am enjoying breakfast on my patio.
Gold?

Why having gold fall into your yard would be a good thing!

In this case, a much higher bid is justified.

:beer
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WhyNotUs
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by WhyNotUs »

The value of golf frontage has dropped as golf was overbuilt and courses are closing or being poorly maintained due to operating losses. The value today is probably more like living next to open space or a park. There is some value but unless Indy is a golfers mecca is not probably not strongly tied to golf but rather the lack of a house.

The concerns are people walking around your yard any time during daylight of golf season, errant balls, and whether the course is sustainable. In CA, some courses have been absorbed by HOAs by threat of them turning into abandoned fields.

If you are a golfer, you may really enjoy living on the course and the open space aspect is nice.

No way to put a value on your particular situation, a realtor should be able to give you a guess based on lot sales and comps.
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Topic Author
hackermb
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by hackermb »

Any thoughts of responding with 300,000 and taking off 5,000? I thought I was more than generous with my initial offer and gave a lot of intrinsic value to the golf course frontage because well I play golf everyday and love it. However, a course is just 5 mins down the road from anywhere in the city.
coop
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by coop »

There is really no "rule of thumb" or formula that you can apply for a golf course lot, particularly in a resale situation. It appears that you are looking for a specific number, and given the facts you've presented, it would be difficult even for your realtor to provide a number, much less one of us. You can always hire your own appraiser, since you appear to be very concerned (rightfully so) about establishing a good value for this property given the lack of comparable sales. Evidently your realtor has not provided any insights.

As someone who has played golf for 50 years and officiated it at the very highest level, I've seen a lot of golf course residential real estate developments. My suggestions are all along the lines of non-financial considerations. You mentioned that the house backs up to a tee box. Look at an Earth view of Google Maps--is the cart path on your side of the tee, or the opposite side? I personally would never want to be on a tee box or a green, because this is where carts stop, people congregate, and converse. And sometimes those conversations can be loud and intrusive. If the lot is shallow and the back patio or deck of the home is close to the cart path, you will have less privacy than NOT being on a golf course. Is the course public or private? How much play does it get? Is there a transition area between your lot line and the teeing ground that the course maintenance crew might allow to grow 3-4 feet high? In the town where I live, there is an upscale, private, Jack Nicklaus-designed development of very expensive homes. The club is pinching pennies and allowing all the non-play areas to remain unmaintained (as in unmowed). So homeowners with golf course properties look out on grass that is 3-4 feet high, which they are not happy about. On the flip side, tee boxes have to be mowed, watered, and fertilized on a regular basis, so you will have grounds crews near your property on a weekly basis.

There are golf course lots that are worth significant premiums. There are others that are worth no premium. And there are some, as a poster noted above, that are in the landing area of the drive zone, with the cart path on their side of the fairway, that are a detriment. I've seen such homes actually sell at a discount and take longer to sell. Personally, even as an avid golfer, I would rather back to a greenbelt than a golf course. A golf course is a recreational business operation. The only thing you gain is not having a house directly behind you.
123
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by 123 »

I worked with a guy who had a home situated alongside a golf course. He said he had broken windows from golf balls that came in spurts. Peace and quiet for 2 years and then 3 broken windows in a month. Of course the real estate agent had told him that glass damage next to a golf course was really not an issue.

I would be concerned as well about the financial viability of the course. In Southern California there are dead brown golf courses around, maybe elsewhere as well.
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johnubc
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by johnubc »

Make sure you review the covenants and bylaws before purchasing the property. Rules and regulations - such as limited grilling times, people in backyard, outdoor furniture, usage of your yard, etc - is very common on a golf course property. Myself, a negative worth to live on the course.
freddie
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by freddie »

hackermb wrote:Any thoughts of responding with 300,000 and taking off 5,000? I thought I was more than generous with my initial offer and gave a lot of intrinsic value to the golf course frontage because well I play golf everyday and love it. However, a course is just 5 mins down the road from anywhere in the city.
It sort of comes down to how much the house is worth to you and how much it is worth to the owner/bank. Maybe at 310 they avoid the short sale but at 300 it is a short sale (i.e the bank gets to refuse the offer). Some states make mortgage data public. Personally I wouldn't bid against myself. Unless you have strong knowledge of another bidder I would stand by my offer of 305k. Dropping to 300k (or 299.k if you want to rub it in) would be tempting though.

And personally I would rather be at the tee box than 150-200 yards down the course on the right:)
eucalyptus
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by eucalyptus »

Mandatory club membership?
Calm Man
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by Calm Man »

I once looked into one of these communities. The real estate agent was being very positive about being on a tee. I figured that having my back yard right near the tee would mean a whole bunch of people having no choice but to look at me all day if in the backyard, that I wold have to see them all day and worse, that I would have to hear them all day. In my mind, it detracts from the value.
Topic Author
hackermb
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by hackermb »

Decided to walk away wasn't getting the a good value for it being a short sale and the work it needed.

Also realized that a lot of people don't like the idea of being on a course so good resale value lost the edge I thought it had.

Thanks
J295
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by J295 »

We have a town home on a cul-de-sac in a Pete Dye designed golf course on the "edge of town."

It's an old real estate saying, but when it comes to golf course homes I think it is particularly true. It's all about location, location, location. For example, I wouldn't want to live 200-250 yards on the right side down from a par 4 (think sliced tee shots), or any other typical landing area for any shots. On the flip side, we are extremely happy to be set far back from an island green so we have a water buffer and a water view, not to mention awesome neighbors and wildlife friends (deer, turkey, muskrat, rabbit, possum .... ok my wife doesn't care for the mice or snakes .....).

Most certainly, not all courses are created equal, and not all locations on courses are created equal. You can change a lot of things about a home, but you can't alter the location.

Best of luck.
Gnirk
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by Gnirk »

My husband is an avid golfer. Our primary home and our snowbird home are both on very nice golf courses, and both across from the tee box, so no golf balls hitting the house. As another poster said. Location is important. We also have enough distance between the house and the tee that we don't hear their chatter when we are on our porch/ patio and they don't hear ours, and the golf cart path is on the opposite side ( important to us).

It's like having an extra large backyard that someone else maintains.

The only drawback is the sound of the mowers at 7:00 am very morning. :?

Golf course lots run $50,000 to $100,000 more than interior lots in both neighborhoods.
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hand
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by hand »

jlawrence01 wrote:Two warnings about living on a gold course:

1) If the design was not well thought out, you will be pelted by golf balls. I have a friend with a house adjacent to a course in North Carolina and he generally finds 6-12 gold balls in the yard daily. Personally, I don't want balls hit in my direction as I am enjoying breakfast on my patio.

2) Golf is in a pretty steep decline and there are MANY courses that are shutting down and closing. Every night, my wife and I hike one of these abandoned gold courses which amounts to a 3-5 mile hike. We look at the homes overlooking the course and wonder how much of a premium these people paid for their home that has evaporated. The worse part is that this is a desert region so the green grass has turned to brush.

Make sure you understand what the fees are and whether you need to join the golf course as a deed restriction.
The worst part may be yet to come... What happens to the "premium" housing when the failed golf course is redeveloped into low end tract housing?
mayday23
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by mayday23 »

Just a single data point, but we live on a private golf course in chicagoland and it generally increases the value by $50k or 7%-10% of homes value. this is based on comps of same houses on vs off the golf course over a 5 year period. Argue if it's worth it or not, but that's the data speaking.
jlawrence01
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Re: What's Golf Course Frontage Worth - Indianapolis

Post by jlawrence01 »

hand wrote:
jlawrence01 wrote:Two warnings about living on a gold course:

1) If the design was not well thought out, you will be pelted by golf balls. I have a friend with a house adjacent to a course in North Carolina and he generally finds 6-12 gold balls in the yard daily. Personally, I don't want balls hit in my direction as I am enjoying breakfast on my patio.

2) Golf is in a pretty steep decline and there are MANY courses that are shutting down and closing. Every night, my wife and I hike one of these abandoned gold courses which amounts to a 3-5 mile hike. We look at the homes overlooking the course and wonder how much of a premium these people paid for their home that has evaporated. The worse part is that this is a desert region so the green grass has turned to brush.

Make sure you understand what the fees are and whether you need to join the golf course as a deed restriction.
The worst part may be yet to come... What happens to the "premium" housing when the failed golf course is redeveloped into low end tract housing?

The gold course is located on land that cannot be developed into housing as it would fall in flood plains.
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