Made the $5 million club, but...
Made the $5 million club, but...
A few weeks ago, thanks to this long bull market plus many years of Boglehead living and investing, I finally made the $5 million-in-assets club. Of the total, approximately $660,000 is in an IRA and $420,000 is in a pension plan (which I haven't touched) that's currently earning 4% a year. I'm 50% in stocks, 35% in bonds, with the rest in cash and the pension plan. I own my co-op outright, so no mortgage, just a maintenance fee of $1200 a month.
Been waiting and working for literally a lifetime to hit that milestone (I'm 58 1/2 years old). Interestingly, I thought I'd commemorate the moment with a nice dinner. Instead, all I felt was...sad.
I guess much of that has to do with my job. I really dislike it and I'm burned out (I'm in advertising, a pressure-filled cauldron that's not kind to older people like me). Yet, living in New York City, I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on. (I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.) And frankly, I like seeing my net worth continue to grow, however painful earning the money is.
Don't want to sound ungrateful. I know that few people ever accumulate this kind of money. The question is, is $5 million really enough? Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
Been waiting and working for literally a lifetime to hit that milestone (I'm 58 1/2 years old). Interestingly, I thought I'd commemorate the moment with a nice dinner. Instead, all I felt was...sad.
I guess much of that has to do with my job. I really dislike it and I'm burned out (I'm in advertising, a pressure-filled cauldron that's not kind to older people like me). Yet, living in New York City, I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on. (I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.) And frankly, I like seeing my net worth continue to grow, however painful earning the money is.
Don't want to sound ungrateful. I know that few people ever accumulate this kind of money. The question is, is $5 million really enough? Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
$5M is probably enough, definitely for a single and likely for a couple.
So what do you want to DO?
And WHERE?
I'm not saying NYC is bad, but some things are a bit pricey...
So what do you want to DO?
And WHERE?
I'm not saying NYC is bad, but some things are a bit pricey...
Attempted new signature...
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
When you write "the city" that could mean many places in NYC. One can certainly live in a nice place in the 'burbs and probably still fulfill eldercare obligations. We know that Archie Bunker and Ray Romano didn't have $5 million in their TV lives.
- bogleblitz
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
A safe 4% withdraw from 5 million is about $200,000 a year. Do you spend more than $200,000 a year? It is enough if you spend less than $200k a year.
Since you are in advertisement, you probably spend more to keep your image. Once you retire, you can spend alot less or move to a cheaper place in new york.
Since you are in advertisement, you probably spend more to keep your image. Once you retire, you can spend alot less or move to a cheaper place in new york.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Congratulations, that is truly great. What are your monthly needs other than $1200 for your co-op? With that kind of portfolio and owning your residence you don't have to stay in marketing. Look for a job that is stress free for the next few years while you tend to the eldercare side of things. Even something like a bookstore if you like reading, a cinema is you like movies, or see if you can find that quality fee only advisor who needs admin work done in the office. I'm sure you have learned a lot on this site and in your other career to be useful. Sorry to hear you were bummed out at dinner. I know all about the stress of looking after an older loved one and having a job that has lost its appeal. Good luck.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
If you figured out how to amass 5mill,you will figure out "how to make it ".
Go ahead and Retire.
Go ahead and Retire.
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
I'm trying really hard to feel sorry for you ...................................
Nah, can't do it
Nah, can't do it
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
I am right now reading Bernsteins latest book hoping to find answers to some of these questions. I'm only half way through, but I can say its a great book. Perhaps it, and other books, will help you find some answers.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
$5 million should allow one to live comfortably even in NYC unless you have an exquisite lifestyle. Still maybe you could relocate both yourself and your eldercare responsibilities?I guess much of that has to do with my job. I really dislike it and I'm burned out (I'm in advertising, a pressure-filled cauldron that's not kind to older people like me). Yet, living in New York City, I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on. (I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.) And frankly, I like seeing my net worth continue to grow, however painful earning the money is.
A good book to check out is 'Your Money or your Life'.
Last edited by furwut on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
If I were in your shoes, I'd retire in a New York minute. Suggested reading: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Firstly, congratulations upon reaching that milestone at what really is a young age.
Now, a small word from me. Take it or leave it. It's just a thought, really.
You mention how you like watching your net worth continue to grow. Well, that's natural enough, as we all tend to think that more, bigger, faster, smarter, etc. etc. is the way to go.
The only caution I can say is the following: if you truly can not stand your job, then perhaps it's time to get out. If it's just a matter of your grousing, well, I don't care what job you have, there's grousing involved. From the lowliest to the mightiest, there is second guessing, criticism, and viewing of your performance through someone else's eyes.
So, if it's just grousing, keep at it. Don't look at 5 mil as an end unto itself. Look upon it as a natural byproduct of all that you have done.
Consider all the good you have done, both professionally and personally. Think about some accounts you've landed. Think about some whizbang advertising campaigns that may have provided a product(s) to those who otherwise might not have benefited from it. Think about your own interpersonal relationships and how you have affected and been affected by those around you, both good and bad.
So, when you consider all that, do you want to give all that stuff up?
If the answer is yes, then go for it.
If the answer is no, then act accordingly.
Bottom line: the measure of a man is not in his bank account but in his life's account. Put another way, you can't take it with you, so don't think you get some kind of prize for passing from this world with more than the next guy. Enjoy yourself while you're here. Consider all the pros and cons, and make an effort to adjust your sites to reflect that. You may not need the abrupt change you envision. Maybe just a shift in attitude. Maybe cutting down the hours but staying in the field.
But if you decide you want out, then by all means, go for it. As they say, stop and smell the roses. When you're not commuting with everyone else, the world is a far different place. Next time you've got a little vacation, stick around NYC and just go about town to different places than you ordinarily go, and go at different times. You'll find an entirely different city from the one you currently inhabit.
It doesn't have to be an 'either or' decision. It can encompass both at the same time, more leisure and less work. You can (and should) have your cake and eat it. Certainly, after the effort you've put forth to date!
Now, a small word from me. Take it or leave it. It's just a thought, really.
You mention how you like watching your net worth continue to grow. Well, that's natural enough, as we all tend to think that more, bigger, faster, smarter, etc. etc. is the way to go.
The only caution I can say is the following: if you truly can not stand your job, then perhaps it's time to get out. If it's just a matter of your grousing, well, I don't care what job you have, there's grousing involved. From the lowliest to the mightiest, there is second guessing, criticism, and viewing of your performance through someone else's eyes.
So, if it's just grousing, keep at it. Don't look at 5 mil as an end unto itself. Look upon it as a natural byproduct of all that you have done.
Consider all the good you have done, both professionally and personally. Think about some accounts you've landed. Think about some whizbang advertising campaigns that may have provided a product(s) to those who otherwise might not have benefited from it. Think about your own interpersonal relationships and how you have affected and been affected by those around you, both good and bad.
So, when you consider all that, do you want to give all that stuff up?
If the answer is yes, then go for it.
If the answer is no, then act accordingly.
Bottom line: the measure of a man is not in his bank account but in his life's account. Put another way, you can't take it with you, so don't think you get some kind of prize for passing from this world with more than the next guy. Enjoy yourself while you're here. Consider all the pros and cons, and make an effort to adjust your sites to reflect that. You may not need the abrupt change you envision. Maybe just a shift in attitude. Maybe cutting down the hours but staying in the field.
But if you decide you want out, then by all means, go for it. As they say, stop and smell the roses. When you're not commuting with everyone else, the world is a far different place. Next time you've got a little vacation, stick around NYC and just go about town to different places than you ordinarily go, and go at different times. You'll find an entirely different city from the one you currently inhabit.
It doesn't have to be an 'either or' decision. It can encompass both at the same time, more leisure and less work. You can (and should) have your cake and eat it. Certainly, after the effort you've put forth to date!
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
No need to wait for the IRA. It most likely makes sense to pull from taxable first anyway.
For your spending, I think 4% is too aggressive, especially if you are hoping to grow the money. Using a 3% pretax, yields 150K. After tax in NYC if you are married and this is LTCG and dividends and you are probably looking at 24K in taxes on this money (rough estimate) or 126K after tax or 10500 a month. And then SS when it kicks in as well.
You did not give expenses but here are some not crazy, but not cheap expenses:
1200 Maintenance
2000 Healthcare
1000 Groceries
200 Utilities
100 cell phone
100 laundry wash dry fold
100 personal care
adds up to 4700 for basic expenses which leaves you with 5.8K/month discretionary and this is before social security kicks in one day.
Should be enough to have a social life + travel if you don't go crazy. If you have kids you plan to to allow to live off you or something it could get tight. I think you are fine.
If you are single, your taxes are higher but basic expenses lower.
For your spending, I think 4% is too aggressive, especially if you are hoping to grow the money. Using a 3% pretax, yields 150K. After tax in NYC if you are married and this is LTCG and dividends and you are probably looking at 24K in taxes on this money (rough estimate) or 126K after tax or 10500 a month. And then SS when it kicks in as well.
You did not give expenses but here are some not crazy, but not cheap expenses:
1200 Maintenance
2000 Healthcare
1000 Groceries
200 Utilities
100 cell phone
100 laundry wash dry fold
100 personal care
adds up to 4700 for basic expenses which leaves you with 5.8K/month discretionary and this is before social security kicks in one day.
Should be enough to have a social life + travel if you don't go crazy. If you have kids you plan to to allow to live off you or something it could get tight. I think you are fine.
If you are single, your taxes are higher but basic expenses lower.
- MN-Investor
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
You won't know if you have enough to retire on until you put the numbers together for what you will be spending in retirement. That's your big unknown. You never will be comfortable with retirement until you have that part of your equation resolved.
So start putting numbers together. Start with what you are spending right now. If you can examine several past years of spending, even better. Then give thought to how your spending will change after retirement. Take your time putting the numbers together to make sure you don't forget anything.
Then put your projected expenses in a spreadsheet, matching it with projected income and distributions.
I know you say you have eldercare commitments, but think past that. Is moving 10 years down the road an option? Do all the calculations for moving, including living in a lower cost of living area along with lower taxes. See how that changes your future financial situation.
So start putting numbers together. Start with what you are spending right now. If you can examine several past years of spending, even better. Then give thought to how your spending will change after retirement. Take your time putting the numbers together to make sure you don't forget anything.
Then put your projected expenses in a spreadsheet, matching it with projected income and distributions.
I know you say you have eldercare commitments, but think past that. Is moving 10 years down the road an option? Do all the calculations for moving, including living in a lower cost of living area along with lower taxes. See how that changes your future financial situation.
The key to success - Save early, save often, invest well.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
If $5M isn't enough in NYC (and it seems like it should be), you should move. If you're convinced that the only place you can be happy is NYC and that $5M isn't enough, ask yourself if you're being realistic in your assessment of what it takes for you to be happy. There might be more than money issues involved.scylla wrote:A few weeks ago, thanks to this long bull market plus many years of Boglehead living and investing, I finally made the $5 million-in-assets club. Of the total, approximately $660,000 is in an IRA and $420,000 is in a pension plan (which I haven't touched) that's currently earning 4% a year. I'm 50% in stocks, 35% in bonds, with the rest in cash and the pension plan. I own my co-op outright, so no mortgage, just a maintenance fee of $1200 a month.
Been waiting and working for literally a lifetime to hit that milestone (I'm 58 1/2 years old). Interestingly, I thought I'd commemorate the moment with a nice dinner. Instead, all I felt was...sad.
I guess much of that has to do with my job. I really dislike it and I'm burned out (I'm in advertising, a pressure-filled cauldron that's not kind to older people like me). Yet, living in New York City, I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on. (I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.) And frankly, I like seeing my net worth continue to grow, however painful earning the money is.
Don't want to sound ungrateful. I know that few people ever accumulate this kind of money. The question is, is $5 million really enough? Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (retirement planning).
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Consider a lateral move or a demotion within your current firm. It's hard, but
might get the stress level down to where you like working.
might get the stress level down to where you like working.
- FrugalInvestor
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Whether or not $5mm is enough depends on your expenses.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Congratulations!
With $5 million, you have the option of buying yourself time for *your* life.
I think you have enough "Foxtrot Uniform" money (see the NATO phonetic alphabet for a translation ) to quit a job you no longer like.
As already mentioned, look at your options and expenses, and see if you can't pull the ejection handle.
Financial advisor? Why? You got to $5 million without one.
Do you have dependents? If so, do you have a will and life insurance (although that may not be necessary with this level of assets)?
For your amusement and edification, I offer this article from the New York magazine:
"Nailing Your New York Number"
With $5 million, you have the option of buying yourself time for *your* life.
I think you have enough "Foxtrot Uniform" money (see the NATO phonetic alphabet for a translation ) to quit a job you no longer like.
As already mentioned, look at your options and expenses, and see if you can't pull the ejection handle.
Financial advisor? Why? You got to $5 million without one.
Do you have dependents? If so, do you have a will and life insurance (although that may not be necessary with this level of assets)?
For your amusement and edification, I offer this article from the New York magazine:
"Nailing Your New York Number"
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Time for some NYC tough love without the accompanying street language
So you live in the city that never sleeps and judging from your post, you're not getting that much either. You're 58.5 - you've reached your financial goal, the new goal is to be able to enjoy the fruits of your pressure filled labor (how's your blood pressure?) and get off the hamster wheel allowing you to live until your biological ticker gives out. Now, I'm going to share a true story about a relative who scrimped and saved (think of the pressure), only to have a cruel twist of fate intervene just 6 months before his planned retirement at age 60, he didn't make it to retirement. Don't be another statistic.
Do like the other posters said, track your expenses, add it all up because frankly you are spending more than $1,200 a month even if you are living in one of the other boroughs besides Manhattan. Price out health insurance from now until Medicare, add up your food, clothing, travel jaunts (this can wreck your budget) any home repairs/upgrades, eldercare expenses (are you financially responsible for party you are taking care of?). Tally it up - if you spend $80K less taxes, you are set - that's 2.0% or less withdrawal rate - Total Stock yields 1.80%, Total International yields 3.0%, bonds yield 2-4% depending on riskiness and it doesn't assume principal depletion.
So you live in the city that never sleeps and judging from your post, you're not getting that much either. You're 58.5 - you've reached your financial goal, the new goal is to be able to enjoy the fruits of your pressure filled labor (how's your blood pressure?) and get off the hamster wheel allowing you to live until your biological ticker gives out. Now, I'm going to share a true story about a relative who scrimped and saved (think of the pressure), only to have a cruel twist of fate intervene just 6 months before his planned retirement at age 60, he didn't make it to retirement. Don't be another statistic.
Do like the other posters said, track your expenses, add it all up because frankly you are spending more than $1,200 a month even if you are living in one of the other boroughs besides Manhattan. Price out health insurance from now until Medicare, add up your food, clothing, travel jaunts (this can wreck your budget) any home repairs/upgrades, eldercare expenses (are you financially responsible for party you are taking care of?). Tally it up - if you spend $80K less taxes, you are set - that's 2.0% or less withdrawal rate - Total Stock yields 1.80%, Total International yields 3.0%, bonds yield 2-4% depending on riskiness and it doesn't assume principal depletion.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
- Artsdoctor
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Scylla,
Congratulations on your achievements! Welcome to the world of "The High Net Worth Investor." (Note that this is a different category than the "Ultra High Net Worth Investor," a different world altogether!)
The value of your portfolio in itself doesn't really answer any questions. The most obvious question you'll have to answer is what your consumption costs are; you need to know what your essentials are and what your desires are (wants and needs).
There are a few people who have investable assets of $5M who have expenses well below what the portfolio can generate (let's say $100,000 per year at your age). There are a lot more, probably the majority, who will do just fine but have to watch it very carefully and don't have too much room for risk. And finally, there are investors with $5M in investments who are not even close to providing a lifestyle that they can afford without continuing work (let's say, currently spending $500,000 per year now).
You need to figure out how much you're consuming per year. How much are your wants? And how much are your needs? Don't forget to factor in all potential sources of income.
Congratulations on your achievements! Welcome to the world of "The High Net Worth Investor." (Note that this is a different category than the "Ultra High Net Worth Investor," a different world altogether!)
The value of your portfolio in itself doesn't really answer any questions. The most obvious question you'll have to answer is what your consumption costs are; you need to know what your essentials are and what your desires are (wants and needs).
There are a few people who have investable assets of $5M who have expenses well below what the portfolio can generate (let's say $100,000 per year at your age). There are a lot more, probably the majority, who will do just fine but have to watch it very carefully and don't have too much room for risk. And finally, there are investors with $5M in investments who are not even close to providing a lifestyle that they can afford without continuing work (let's say, currently spending $500,000 per year now).
You need to figure out how much you're consuming per year. How much are your wants? And how much are your needs? Don't forget to factor in all potential sources of income.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
+1!! Great words of advice.ripete wrote:Firstly, congratulations upon reaching that milestone at what really is a young age.
Now, a small word from me. Take it or leave it. It's just a thought, really.
You mention how you like watching your net worth continue to grow. Well, that's natural enough, as we all tend to think that more, bigger, faster, smarter, etc. etc. is the way to go.
The only caution I can say is the following: if you truly can not stand your job, then perhaps it's time to get out. If it's just a matter of your grousing, well, I don't care what job you have, there's grousing involved. From the lowliest to the mightiest, there is second guessing, criticism, and viewing of your performance through someone else's eyes.
So, if it's just grousing, keep at it. Don't look at 5 mil as an end unto itself. Look upon it as a natural byproduct of all that you have done.
Consider all the good you have done, both professionally and personally. Think about some accounts you've landed. Think about some whizbang advertising campaigns that may have provided a product(s) to those who otherwise might not have benefited from it. Think about your own interpersonal relationships and how you have affected and been affected by those around you, both good and bad.
So, when you consider all that, do you want to give all that stuff up?
If the answer is yes, then go for it.
If the answer is no, then act accordingly.
Bottom line: the measure of a man is not in his bank account but in his life's account. Put another way, you can't take it with you, so don't think you get some kind of prize for passing from this world with more than the next guy. Enjoy yourself while you're here. Consider all the pros and cons, and make an effort to adjust your sites to reflect that. You may not need the abrupt change you envision. Maybe just a shift in attitude. Maybe cutting down the hours but staying in the field.
But if you decide you want out, then by all means, go for it. As they say, stop and smell the roses. When you're not commuting with everyone else, the world is a far different place. Next time you've got a little vacation, stick around NYC and just go about town to different places than you ordinarily go, and go at different times. You'll find an entirely different city from the one you currently inhabit.
It doesn't have to be an 'either or' decision. It can encompass both at the same time, more leisure and less work. You can (and should) have your cake and eat it. Certainly, after the effort you've put forth to date!
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Under fairly conservative assumptions (you live another 40 years) and your portfolio returns 0% real after-tax, you still have a SWR of 2.5% or $125k/year. Even in New York, most people live on a household income of less than $125k year after taxes and retirement savings. Your $125k/year would obviously go a lot further outside of New York and if you can't leave the area for family reasons, you could always move to Jersey, but I'm sure you already know that.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Jersey's expensive in more ways than one.cowboysFan wrote:Under fairly conservative assumptions (you live another 40 years) and your portfolio returns 0% real after-tax, you still have a SWR of 2.5% or $125k/year. Even in New York, most people live on a household income of less than $125k year after taxes and retirement savings. Your $125k/year would obviously go a lot further outside of New York and if you can't leave the area for family reasons, you could always move to Jersey, but I'm sure you already know that.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
How much do you spend a year? You have to start there.scylla wrote:The question is, is $5 million really enough? Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
Also, is the value of your co-op included in that $5 million? $5 million investable can throw off $150k-$200k (3%-4% withdrawal).
But if $1.5 million of that is in your house (and you can't downsize to free up that equity), then your income will be much lower.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
My first thought was, I didn't know there was a $5 million club.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
It's kind of like the 5-Timers Clubletsgobobby wrote:My first thought was, I didn't know there was a $5 million club.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Timer ... imers_Club
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Be sure to look at your income needs at different ages.I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on.
Eventually you will slow down as you age and you may find that after you are 75 or so that your spending decreases on things like travel or even going out for the evening.
You will be 75 in about 16 years so if you work another four years that is quarter of what might be your most enjoyable retirement years.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Scylla--
Congratuations. You state that you have $5MM in assets, but the challenge seems to be related to what proportion of that is in liquid assets and what proportion is in real estate. Obviously, you can't easily spend the growth in your co-op, so the calculations some people have made (e.g., 4% of $5MM = $200K/year) don't make sense to me. Similarly, we don't know the details of your pension payout at different ages or what percentage of your retirement funds, if any, are in IRAs. The key would be to gather those numbers and work out what a safe withdrawal amount would be. Then take a look at your expenses, including changes in things like health insurance should you leave your current job, put in a fudge factor, and see what your predicted expenses look like.
Congratuations. You state that you have $5MM in assets, but the challenge seems to be related to what proportion of that is in liquid assets and what proportion is in real estate. Obviously, you can't easily spend the growth in your co-op, so the calculations some people have made (e.g., 4% of $5MM = $200K/year) don't make sense to me. Similarly, we don't know the details of your pension payout at different ages or what percentage of your retirement funds, if any, are in IRAs. The key would be to gather those numbers and work out what a safe withdrawal amount would be. Then take a look at your expenses, including changes in things like health insurance should you leave your current job, put in a fudge factor, and see what your predicted expenses look like.
- White Coat Investor
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
This reminds of posts in another forum I frequent where medical students share their "stats" and ask what their chances of getting a position in an emergency medicine program are. Some people come along who basically walk on water with exceptionally high board scores, grades etc and then seem almost paranoid about not matching into a position. Your post is like that. Most Americans retire with less than 1/10th of your net worth. I would say a large majority of Bogleheads have a "number" that is half or less than yours.
If you can't retire on $5 Million you would need to have a spending problem, not an earning/nest egg size problem. I doubt you have that given that you are worth $5 Million, especially if you're "self-made" as I suspect you are. Loosen up, you're fine.
If you can't retire on $5 Million you would need to have a spending problem, not an earning/nest egg size problem. I doubt you have that given that you are worth $5 Million, especially if you're "self-made" as I suspect you are. Loosen up, you're fine.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
First, be careful with your club membership. As EmergDoc recently wrote in WhiteCoatInvestor, you're not as rich as you think you are and your membership may drop at the next market correction. However, you will do well even in the $4 million club, unless you do something stupid.
Second, while other people are congratulating you on the financial achievement, I congratulate you with living in New York City, the most exciting city in the world.
You have the money and opportunity to enjoy the next 30 years of your life. Use this opportunity. If you need moral support, read and post in this Forum; we provide an excellent peer group.
Good luck,
Victoria
Second, while other people are congratulating you on the financial achievement, I congratulate you with living in New York City, the most exciting city in the world.
You have the money and opportunity to enjoy the next 30 years of your life. Use this opportunity. If you need moral support, read and post in this Forum; we provide an excellent peer group.
Good luck,
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Great work. Congrats. I'd retire yesterday.
$175k to $200k would be a great "retirement" salary in many places around the US. At 43 I likely won't get to $5 million, but we are shooting for $60k/year or so.
$175k to $200k would be a great "retirement" salary in many places around the US. At 43 I likely won't get to $5 million, but we are shooting for $60k/year or so.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
It isn't so great if you spending 300k/yr though. Then you need to be in the 10 million club.
FWIW at 43, I like you odds of being a member of the 5 million club. Of course it will be worth about the same as the 1.5 million club is today:)
FWIW at 43, I like you odds of being a member of the 5 million club. Of course it will be worth about the same as the 1.5 million club is today:)
bloom2708 wrote:Great work. Congrats. I'd retire yesterday.
$175k to $200k would be a great "retirement" salary in many places around the US. At 43 I likely won't get to $5 million, but I we are shooting for $60k/year or so.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Didn't see this covered but anyone can access their IRA without penalty... SEPP as long as your careful can do that and your so close that it should be easy. http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Ret ... c-Paymentsscylla wrote:Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
As to the number... Hard to image anywhere where 5M is not going to be enough for regular people... comes down to expenses and whether your prepared to live on the income 5M can provide.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Not sure if this is appropriate to say, but reading you post re-emphasizes what I do NOT want to accomplish. At my rate of savings I should easily make that number at an earlier age, but I have been having this nagging feeling the last couple of years... "Who cares?"
Having your net worth grow is great, but I am always starting to see that hitting these financial milestones have NOT given me any new happiness I had before hitting them.
My greatest happiness in the last 10 years (my whole working life thus far) has been helping my patients regain a greater quality of life professionally and spending my free time with my wife and child personally. I am already thinking of how NOT to get to my late 50's or 60's and realize that number gave me no more happiness and even worse limited the time I have in a finite life to enjoy the things that truly makes one happy.
I think we all, me included, need to think more of money as a means to an end (like a tool in a toolbox) then the meaning of life itself.
My advice, is go find what makes you happy and start focusing on that the same way you focused on your career which brought you great success. That is the ONLY way you will find any happiness (like the rest of us) despite what you the final balance in your account says.
Just saw Tony Gwynn passed away at an early age and what he must have thought before he died. With all the money he had, fame, love from the public and family I doubt his last thoughts were, "I am glad I played the last several years to make that extra 10 million".
Good luck.
Having your net worth grow is great, but I am always starting to see that hitting these financial milestones have NOT given me any new happiness I had before hitting them.
My greatest happiness in the last 10 years (my whole working life thus far) has been helping my patients regain a greater quality of life professionally and spending my free time with my wife and child personally. I am already thinking of how NOT to get to my late 50's or 60's and realize that number gave me no more happiness and even worse limited the time I have in a finite life to enjoy the things that truly makes one happy.
I think we all, me included, need to think more of money as a means to an end (like a tool in a toolbox) then the meaning of life itself.
My advice, is go find what makes you happy and start focusing on that the same way you focused on your career which brought you great success. That is the ONLY way you will find any happiness (like the rest of us) despite what you the final balance in your account says.
Just saw Tony Gwynn passed away at an early age and what he must have thought before he died. With all the money he had, fame, love from the public and family I doubt his last thoughts were, "I am glad I played the last several years to make that extra 10 million".
Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” |
-Jack Bogle
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
It's easily enough if you don't retire in NYC.scylla wrote:A few weeks ago, thanks to this long bull market plus many years of Boglehead living and investing, I finally made the $5 million-in-assets club. Of the total, approximately $660,000 is in an IRA and $420,000 is in a pension plan (which I haven't touched) that's currently earning 4% a year. I'm 50% in stocks, 35% in bonds, with the rest in cash and the pension plan. I own my co-op outright, so no mortgage, just a maintenance fee of $1200 a month.
Been waiting and working for literally a lifetime to hit that milestone (I'm 58 1/2 years old). Interestingly, I thought I'd commemorate the moment with a nice dinner. Instead, all I felt was...sad.
I guess much of that has to do with my job. I really dislike it and I'm burned out (I'm in advertising, a pressure-filled cauldron that's not kind to older people like me). Yet, living in New York City, I feel that even $5 million isn't nearly enough to retire on. (I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.) And frankly, I like seeing my net worth continue to grow, however painful earning the money is.
Don't want to sound ungrateful. I know that few people ever accumulate this kind of money. The question is, is $5 million really enough? Should I wait a year until I can touch my IRA without penalty before I consider retirement? Should I talk with a financial advisor?
Do you have a lot of friends there, or just work "friends" you will quickly forget? If the latter, just leave NYC, and live like a king.
For comparison my family's' 4 bedroom detached house in a medium sized and not-unfashionable city had a lower mortgage than your $1200 monthly "maintenance fee" (presumably on some kind of apartment?).
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
If you are unhappy in your work, 58.5, and have $5M, retire. One of my oldest friends died Friday at 65. The only good part is he retired at 50 when he received a severance package. You earned the right to go. I think you'll get over your net worth not growing, or maybe it will continue to grow for awhile
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
With all your factors, I would retire. I can see myself not retiring with 5 million but I have a great job.
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Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
You've been working your whole life to reach this milestone and now that you have arrived, it's not exactly what you thought it would be. There have been other threads similar to your situation.This is what I posted on another thread: "I thought that when I reached a certain point financially, I wouldn't have anything to worry about.I found that this was a fallacy. Having some money is nice to have, but if you worried before you had it, you will probably worry after you get it. There is no silver bullet."scylla wrote: Been waiting and working for literally a lifetime to hit that milestone (I'm 58 1/2 years old). Interestingly, I thought I'd commemorate the moment with a nice dinner. Instead, all I felt was...sad.
I guess the lesson I've learned from this is that it's not the destination, it's the trip. Sometimes I go back and read "The Station" by Robert Hastings, that seems to help put things in perspective.
As other have said, a lot depends on your living expenses, but you should be able to do most anything you want to do with 5 million.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Retiring in NYC is the best part,hiddensee wrote:It's easily enough if you don't retire in NYC.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
I think you may have missed this part.hiddensee wrote:It's easily enough if you don't retire in NYC.scylla wrote:...(I can't leave the city due to eldercare obligations.)...
Do you have a lot of friends there, or just work "friends" you will quickly forget? If the latter, just leave NYC, and live like a king...
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
scylla, Is it possible to move the elder care situation with you to another area? I'll bet their expenses would decrease also.
Having not been in your shoes, I think reaching a significant milestone would not be that noticeable, unless you had that as a specific goal and had shared it with others. Then some recognition would be in order. But if it snuck up on you (while you watched it happen??) , then it would be just another day. If you haven't read it yet, check out "The Millionaire Next Door" to see that they typically live "ordinary" lives where others aren't aware of their status.
CONGRATULATIONS! You've earned it.
I think you should now be doing more things you enjoy (or at least try out some things to see if you like them).
Having not been in your shoes, I think reaching a significant milestone would not be that noticeable, unless you had that as a specific goal and had shared it with others. Then some recognition would be in order. But if it snuck up on you (while you watched it happen??) , then it would be just another day. If you haven't read it yet, check out "The Millionaire Next Door" to see that they typically live "ordinary" lives where others aren't aware of their status.
CONGRATULATIONS! You've earned it.
I think you should now be doing more things you enjoy (or at least try out some things to see if you like them).
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
I'm afraid the OP has the bad habit of starting threads, and then never responding again.
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p1597088
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p1597088
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
Ah yes, and in that thread he noted: "Given all that, I don't feel particularly well off. In fact, thanks to some of the insanely wealthy people New York puts you in regular contact with, I feel like I'm just scraping by."HomerJ wrote:I'm afraid the OP has the bad habit of starting threads, and then never responding again.
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p1597088
I'm sorry, but sometimes people need to be brought back to reality.
$5M and "scraping by" should never be used in the same sentence. Does the OP never look down [to see the homeless] while walking the streets?
This is one of those threads that should devolve into arm-chair psych discussions, as it actually seems appropriate here. Or be locked, as there is a possibility the poster is just drive-by-trolling.
Re: Made the $5 million club, but...
The prior thread (An enviable problem?) is over a year old (Jan 29, 2013 is last post). Given that this thread is about to devolve into an off-topic rant, let's call it done at this point.
This thread has run its course and is locked. See: Forum Policy
This thread has run its course and is locked. See: Forum Policy
scylla - If you want the thread reopened, please PM me.Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.