Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

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ahmadcpa
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Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by ahmadcpa »

I have a $6 million Umbrella Policy. Sometimes, I think of certain situations that pause risks on our finances such as being sued for car accidents, sued for kids getting into a fight or even work related suits. My concern is not knowing what's covered and what's not covered. Actual experiences might help!

Does anyone have hands on experience using their umbrella policy?
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mhc
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by mhc »

If you do not know what is covered, you should read your policy. If you have questions, you could also speak to your agent.
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SimonJester
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by SimonJester »

ahmadcpa wrote:even work related suits.
No experience using, but read your policy it most likely excludes any work / professional coverage. You would need a separate professional liability insurance for any work coverage.
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Quasimodo
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by Quasimodo »

Thankfully I have no experience with a personal umbrella claim filed against me, but it’s easy to google search for links to actual claim examples:

http://www.rlipersonalumbrella.com/scenarios.asp

http://www.galleninsurance.com/wp-conte ... Policy.pdf

Previous posters offered sensible advice.

John
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HardKnocker
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by HardKnocker »

Umbrellas are basically an extension of your homeowners and auto policies liability protection.

They usually cover the same things and do not cover other things.
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by Call_Me_Op »

HardKnocker wrote:Umbrellas are basically an extension of your homeowners and auto policies liability protection.

They usually cover the same things and do not cover other things.
Not quite correct. Umbrella policies typically cover thing like libel, slander, and false arrest, which are normally not covered by homeowner's.
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kenner
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by kenner »

Call_Me_Op wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Umbrellas are basically an extension of your homeowners and auto policies liability protection.

They usually cover the same things and do not cover other things.
Not quite correct. Umbrella policies typically cover thing like libel, slander, and false arrest, which are normally not covered by homeowner's.
Impossible to say for sure without knowledge about the specific insurance policy language and the applicable state law, but umbrella insurance is generally intended to provide excess coverage for accidental (i. e. car accident), not intentional, liabilities.

Doubt that libel and slander would be considered accidental, but again, the law could differ from state to state.
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by kenner »

Here is an example of how one state court decided regarding this issue. Other sates may disagree.

http://www.kenneyconley.com/Articles/In ... aims.shtml

Keep in mind that bodily injury to persons may be treated differently from mental injury.
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Quasimodo
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by Quasimodo »

Call_Me_Op wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Umbrellas are basically an extension of your homeowners and auto policies liability protection.

They usually cover the same things and do not cover other things.
Not quite correct. Umbrella policies typically cover thing like libel, slander, and false arrest, which are normally not covered by homeowner's.
I agree with Call_Me_Op.

I have no idea whether a particular state has some legal precedent that overrides the policy language. I didn't see a reference to libel, slander or false arrest in the article Kenner posted. I guess there could be some other legal decision that addresses libel, slander and false arrest and nullifies the policy language. I would wonder what the reasoning was for a state to invalidate insurance coverage for those things .

John
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cowboysFan
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by cowboysFan »

ahmadcpa wrote:Sometimes, I think of certain situations that pause risks on our finances such as being sued for kids getting into a fight
I'ld be shocked if any umbrella policy would provide coverage in the event that a member of your family assaulted someone else. The policies I've seen exclude coverage for personal injury expected or intended by the insured.
paulsiu
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by paulsiu »

I don't have any hands on experience, but umbrella primary purpose is to protect you from lawsuits for you and your dependents (say your kids caused a severe accident). Policy law may vary state from state, so you should check with your agent on specifics, but in general, certain things are unlikely to be covered:

* Business related accidents. Suppose you decided to use your car as a taxi service, accidents are not covered.
* Crimes. Don't assault someone and expect umbrella to cover it.
* Certain types of high risk activities such as street racing.

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prudent
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by prudent »

Our umbrella policy excludes:
- intentional acts, business pursuits, professional services
- pollutants or underground fuel storage tanks
- racing
- communicable diseases
- war, terrorism or nuclear weapons
- loss assessment by an HOA
- mold, fungus, dry rot, bacteria
- sexual molestation, physical/mental abuse, corporal punishment
- anything to do with spreading of computer viruses

Personal injury coverage does not apply to anyone insured by the policy. Property damage coverage does not apply to property belonging to the insured or property in their care.
kenner
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by kenner »

Quasimodo wrote: I guess there could be some other legal decision that addresses libel, slander and false arrest and nullifies the policy language. I would wonder what the reasoning was for a state to invalidate insurance coverage for those things .

John
Please post the insurance policy language you refer to.

I would be interested to see insurance policy language where an insurance company agreed to pay for damages that were intentionally caused by an insured person.
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Quasimodo
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by Quasimodo »

kenner wrote:
Quasimodo wrote: I guess there could be some other legal decision that addresses libel, slander and false arrest and nullifies the policy language. I would wonder what the reasoning was for a state to invalidate insurance coverage for those things .

John
Please post the insurance policy language you refer to.

I would be interested to see insurance policy language where an insurance company agreed to pay for damages that were intentionally caused by an insured person.
From an earlier post:

Out of curiosity I looked over our GEICO umbrella liability policy.

The policy covers “personal injury”, and defines that as including, among other things, “libel, slander, defamation, humiliation...”.

While the policy excludes “acts committed by or at an insured’s direction with intent to cause personal injury or property damage”, it goes on to say “this exclusion does not apply to Part I, item 9(b)”, which is the part of the personal injury definition that describes “libel, slander, defamation etc”.

There is a $500 "retained limit" for the umbrella policy, which is basically a deductible when something the umbrella covers is not covered by the primary policies. Our Travelers renters policy doesn't cover "libel, slander, etc", so we'd be responsible for the first $500 of any claim involving those acts.

Homeowners or auto policies have relatively standardized wording, but umbrella policy language varies from company to company, so the above might not be true for another company’s umbrella coverage.

John
Many wealthy people are little more than janitors of their possessions. | | Frank Lloyd Wright, architect (1867-1959)
kenner
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by kenner »

Thanks, John, for a response that is truly responsive and informative.
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Quasimodo
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Re: Umbrella Policy, do you have hands on experience

Post by Quasimodo »

Thanks for your kindness, Kenner. I appreciate your thoughtful comments as well.

John
Many wealthy people are little more than janitors of their possessions. | | Frank Lloyd Wright, architect (1867-1959)
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