Tough college choice

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Topic Author
markcoop
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Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

My daughter is a senior in high school and we're trying to decide between two schools that offer a certain program. She wants to major in fashion merchandising and wants to go to a school that has a joint program with the Fashion Institute of Technology (she'd spend 1 year in NYC going to FIT). The two schools she's deciding between is the State University of NY at Oneonta (I live in NY) and the University if Delaware. Here's a quick pro/con list I cam up with:

Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
2) Size: 18,000 students
3) Weather: a little better
4) 2.5 hours from home
5) Considered a better school

SUNY Oneonta:
1) Cost: $89,736
2) Size: 6,000 students
3) Weather: a little worse (10 degrees colder)
4) 3.5-4 hours from home

EDIT: One mistake above. Oneonta is 2.5 hours from home and Delaware is 3.5-4 hours from home.


I know some of these items are subjective and I'm trying to figure out things like... will my daughter do better in a smaller school? Will it be better to be in a location where she could come home easily for the weekend like Oneonta?

I'd be interested in any opinions people may have. Is the Delaware education or name worth the price difference?

I have 3 children and have saved $330,000 in college savings plans for them. Hard to predict the other children's needs but they are good students. No financial aid available other than unsubsidized students loans (current rate = 3.86%) at $5,500/year.

Thanks for any help in making this decision
Last edited by markcoop on Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mark
RadAudit
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by RadAudit »

The students tend to gather in to groups defined by their self-interests, so size of the institution should not be a concern.

No offense meant to the Fighting Blue Hens of Delaware; but, I wasn't aware that its name carried all that much cache in the fashion industry. Admittedly, it's not a field I'm personally familiar with. Learn something every day.

Just a guess - but I believe summer internships / co-ops will weigh more heavily on the value of the educational experience than the name of the university. And, an extra 60k seems to be a lot for a name.

What school does you daughter wish to attend?
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davebarnes
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Ignore the weather

Post by davebarnes »

Kids are tough.
They survive in the Winter.
For example:
St Lawrence
Clarkson
A nerd living in Denver
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Last time I passed through Oneonta - I recall it was a one stop sign town. I wonder if they've now put up a light?
I've heard of folks who've attended both schools, but no one ever mentioned that they went their for fashion, many did go to party though! 8-)
Couldn't you go to a different SUNY for the first 2 years and then transfer to FIT? What does each program offer that they will teach in the first 2 years, that could not be learned in the last 2 years of FIT?
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Re: Ignore the weather

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

davebarnes wrote:Kids are tough.
They survive in the Winter.
For example:
St Lawrence
Clarkson
Try SUNY Plattsburgh, where you are guaranteed to freeze anything exposed during the winter.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

This is research that she should be doing. My son (starts college in the fall) has done the research and as a result, changed his intended major 3 times. First, every college will have a % of graduates who find a job in their field within the first 6 months/year. They'll also have average starting salary. Another good indicator is how many employers show up for job fairs at the college in the intended major.

Beyond that, employers who are looking for people would be the ones to ask about how important the college name is. I would think the first questions above are more important than the second.
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

RadAudit wrote:What school does you daughter wish to attend?
She likes both schools. Probably prefers Delaware.

To be honest, I don't know how much better one is considered over the other in the fashion world. My comment about Delaware being a better school with a bigger name was more meant in general.

To me an important consideration is at which school will she be more motivated. I personally feel it's the student and not the school that is the key to success. Some schools open more doors, but I don't have a strong feel if that's the case here, especially with both schools giving her the opportunity to go to FIT. I agree things like weather are not a big deal.
Mark
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:This is research that she should be doing. My son (starts college in the fall) has done the research and as a result, changed his intended major 3 times. First, every college will have a % of graduates who find a job in their field within the first 6 months/year. They'll also have average starting salary. Another good indicator is how many employers show up for job fairs at the college in the intended major.

Beyond that, employers who are looking for people would be the ones to ask about how important the college name is. I would think the first questions above are more important than the second.
Good points to research. My daughter plans on spending the next month thinking about items like that. Thanks.
Mark
hiddensee
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by hiddensee »

$67k is a lot of money.

I agree that work experience is likely to count for most in this industry.

In general, in the absence of solid employment data, I would treat university as a lifestyle consumption good rather than an investment.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

I think U of D will open more doors, it's name is more widely known at least regionally. Also had a bit of a reputation as a real party school, amongst other things. $40K for that school, though is a bit crazy, for $10K more you could go to Cornell.

Oneonta, I know of one grad who majored in a general business degree, but it's not a common name I come across when asking others in the field where they attended undergrad. No one for fashion, when I hear fashion, I hear FIT. Is it not possible to attend FIT for all 4 years? Not sure, I'd be overly motivated to go to Oneonta, it's in the middle of nowhere. Would any of the other SUNY's work for her?
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beachplum
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by beachplum »

markcoop wrote:My daughter is a senior in high school and we're trying to decide between two schools that offer a certain program. She wants to major in fashion merchandising and wants to go to a school that has a joint program with the Fashion Institute of Technology (she'd spend 1 year in NYC going to FIT). The two schools she's deciding between is the State University of NY at Oneonta (I live in NY) and the University if Delaware. Here's a quick pro/con list I cam up with:

Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
2) Size: 18,000 students
3) Weather: a little better
4) 2.5 hours from home
5) Considered a better school

SUNY Oneonta:
1) Cost: $89,736
2) Size: 6,000 students
3) Weather: a little worse (10 degrees colder)
4) 3.5-4 hours from home

I know some of these items are subjective and I'm trying to figure out things like... will my daughter will do better in a smaller school? Will it be better to be in a location where she could come home easily for the weekend like Oneonta?

I'd be interested in any opinions people may have. Is the Delaware education or name worth the price difference?

I have 3 children and have saved $330,000 in college savings plans for them. Hard to predict the other children's needs but they are good students. No financial aid available other than unsubsidized students loans (current rate = 3.86%) at $5,500/year.

Thanks for any help in making this decision
I always thought that Oneonta had a very good reputation. I don't think paying more for Delaware in your case is worth it. IMHO it's better, especially as a freshman, at a smaller school. Maybe your daughter just wants to get out of NY and meet people from other areas. That was why I never considered any NY schools as an undergrad even though I grew up there. If the end goal is fashion, then she'll end up in NYC so probably better to save on tuition now for the higher expense of living/studying in NYC down the road.
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I think U of D will open more doors, it's name is more widely known at least regionally. Also had a bit of a reputation as a real party school, amongst other things. $40K for that school, though is a bit crazy, for $10K more you could go to Cornell.

Oneonta, I know of one grad who majored in a general business degree, but it's not a common name I come across when asking others in the field where they attended undergrad. No one for fashion, when I hear fashion, I hear FIT. Is it not possible to attend FIT for all 4 years? Not sure, I'd be overly motivated to go to Oneonta, it's in the middle of nowhere. Would any of the other SUNY's work for her?
Found this:

Is FIT just a two-year college?
FIT is a State University of New York college offering a 2 + 2 curriculum, which means that students applying directly from high school begin a two-year associate’s degree (AAS) program; upon completion of that program, students may apply to one of FIT’s two-year bachelor’s degree (BS/BFA) programs. FIT also offers a master’s (MA/MFA/MPS) degree in selected majors.

As a parent, I feel it's important that my daughter have options. I feel getting a bachelor's from FIT would provide less options than getting a bachelor's from a Delaware or Oneonta. You just never know if someone will change their mind about a major after taking a few classes or after a period of time.

I visited both schools. Personally, I think Oneonta looks like a fun place to go to college. Very nice setting and campus. Small college town. Closer to home (when she needs that). Delaware looks awesome too. Beautiful campus. Also located in a small town, but clearly closer to big cities.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by frugaltype »

self deleted.
basspond
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by basspond »

What do the graduates make from each school? If it is close to $10k more in Delaware then I could justify extra expense.
dsmil
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by dsmil »

I graduated from Delaware a few years ago, and most of us accounting majors were able to have job offers during our senior year. It's more efficient for companies to recruit students from a few large schools rather than having to visit a ton of small ones. Plus, employers may not have already hired alumni from certain small schools, so they don't know what they are getting into. That being said, fashion merchandising is probably completely different than accounting when it comes to recruiting students. Where in accounting, employers basically pursued us out of certain schools, a fashion merchandise major might be pursuing the employer a little more, and should be judged on their portfolio rather than their school. For a field like that, I think it's about your daughter applying herself and creating an impressive portfolio rather than the name of her school.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by JamesSFO »

markcoop wrote:...
Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
...
I have 3 children and have saved $330,000 in college savings plans for them. ...
One quick observation, you have 3 children but this would be about half of the savings. How does that work out for you and the other two children? Not trying to be a jerk just wondering what your thinking is? May be fine.

Possible middle ground, offer to pay full freight for the cheaper school and let her get loans for the ~70K difference. That's not a bad amount of loans to carry and if things work out over time you can always help pay them off.
Professor Emeritus
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Professor Emeritus »

Many Many years ago I used to teach an advertising law class that had a fair number of fashion Merchandising majors in it.
Here is what little I know. Over the past 30 years the demand for BA FM majors has collapsed with the mergers of department stores.
Everyone works unpaid internships and everyone does the 5 years of grunt work in a retail store. If you don't understand retailing you are useless at the buyer level.

SUNY Oneonta‎ has a reasonable reputation in fashion and "FIT" is where everyone wants to be. Ignore the published salaries for buyers and managers , those are the 5-10 percent of FM graduates who actually get those jobs. Most end up as managers of small mall retail stores.
Keep the education as cheap as possible this is a low payback field.
eschaef
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by eschaef »

Good old Oneonta!

I went to Hartwick College, and had many friends from the SUNY school across the street. I can't necessarily speak to specifics about the program at the school, but I can speak about the town. They've got TWO movie theaters, and I hear there was a Panera opened recently, so it's practically a bustling metropolis now. 8-)

In all seriousness, I loved Oneonta. There is adequate public transportation if you want to get downtown or over to the "small" (Southside Mall) or the Walmart. Yes, it snows. All winter long. It is upstate NY, after all. I remember the first time I breathed in and my nose hairs froze. Fond memories actually. Yes, there are a million bars downtown, but my friends and I were pretty good at finding alternate means of entertainment. In fact, our choice of favorite bar senior year was based on how strictly they kept out the underage kids. College is what you make it - you'll find parties if that's what you want and you'll find alternatives if that's what you want. Because both Hartwick and SUNY Oneonta (We always called it SUCO) are there, it is very much a college town. There are always things happening and I found it easy to get involved. There are great little restaurants, and you simply must try the local specialty, "cold cheese" pizza. Oh, and there's an awesome homemade ice cream place a few miles out of town, Pie in the Sky.

Make friends with some Hartwick kids and you can go out to Pine Lake, their environmental campus, where you can take a row in a canoe or hike up to the peat bog. Don't buy into the school rivalry, it's not as big as it used to be decades ago and pretty much only applies to the dive joints downtown.

While they were across the road at SUNY, it seemed like my friends enjoyed their time there. The campus and dorms were decent, and in the end most everyone seemed pleased with their education once they chose the right major.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

JamesSFO wrote:
markcoop wrote:...
Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
...
I have 3 children and have saved $330,000 in college savings plans for them. ...
One quick observation, you have 3 children but this would be about half of the savings. How does that work out for you and the other two children? Not trying to be a jerk just wondering what your thinking is? May be fine.

Possible middle ground, offer to pay full freight for the cheaper school and let her get loans for the ~70K difference. That's not a bad amount of loans to carry and if things work out over time you can always help pay them off.
Some good questions here. First, money will still be growing, so part of that $330,000 may grow for another decade. Second, with so many variables (scholarships, growth of the market, tuition costs), I'm not just trying to divide the money in thirds. If I need to add more money, that's always a possibility. Loans too are always a possibility past this amount.

That middle ground is exactly what I told my daughter. I always thought a student should have some skin in the game. So, I basically just want to do the most prudent thing here without getting too crazy about equal amounts.

I appreciate all the responses. Alot of good information.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by dsmil »

http://www.udel.edu/IR/reports/cplan/2011/

The link above is data pulled from a survey given to 2011 graduates at Delaware. Not everyone returns the survey so I'm not sure how accurate it is, but you can find Fashion Merchandising info in the Arts and Sciences section. I think this is the most recent version of the survey.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by JupiterJones »

Out of the two choices (which is an artificial constraint, of course), here are my thoughts:

1) Cost: SUNY wins. $160,000 for a degree in Fashion-anything is just waaaay too much, IMHO. Which isn't to say that it's not a worthwhile major--only that I can't imagine the expected value to be high enough to merit that sort of tuition.

2) Size: Doesn't really matter. 18,000 isn't too big and 6,000 isn't too small. A good learner will be a good learner anywhere.

3) Weather: If rotten weather were bad for colleges, why did they build so many of them in Boston? :D

4) Distance from home: SUNY gets the edge. You don't want the drive so short that it's something you want to do often. Too close and she'll wind up coming home to do laundry every weekend.

5) School reputation: I also wasn't aware the Delaware was that big of a deal, but neither am I in the fashion industry.

I never have put much stock in school reputations in general. I've known idiots that came out of top-20 schools and brilliant, hard-working people who came out of third-tier state schools. Having a name that stands out at the top of a piece of sheepskin is nice, I suppose, but I think it's far more important that a student work on grabbing the knowledge and skills that will make them stand out.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Zabar »

markcoop wrote:My daughter is a senior in high school and we're trying to decide between two schools that offer a certain program. She wants to major in fashion merchandising....
First, my congratulations to your daughter on getting into college.

When my son was that age, I told him that when I graduated from high school I knew exactly what I wanted to do for the rest of my life--and I was wrong. When I graduated from college, I knew--and I was wrong. When I graduated from my doctoral program I knew--and I was wrong. And if you told me five years ago that I'd be doing what I'm currently doing, I would have laughed at you.

While she may think that she wants to go into fashion merchandising--and she very well may do so--she really doesn't know yet if this will be her major or her career path. One of the joys of college is that you're exposed to all sorts of new things at a time when your maturing brain allows you to consider possibilities in new ways and to envision different futures.

Given the nature of the two schools, I'd go with the cheaper one (SUNY). They both have programs linked to FIT if she still wants that in a year. There's no significant brand premium or halo effect (e.g., Harvard vs. West Fallopian State Teachers College). They both offer a range of programs. If she does pursue this as a career, her performance at internships and her first job will be much more important than the school she attended. The cost savings are substantial and might be able to help her later on when she's starting her career.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Bidwell »

One daughter spent four years at and graduated from Delaware years ago. My impression was that the school made a lot of money on out of state students by over booking dorms, classes and student services. Support for various problems was insufficient and school officials were unreachable and unpleasant if somehow contacted. It was a waste of money compared to an in state college. She just had to go there, but I thought her college experience was sadly spoiled by the lack of focus on students.
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Re: Ignore the weather

Post by gogleheads.orb »

davebarnes wrote:Kids are tough.
They survive in the Winter.
For example:
St Lawrence
Clarkson
It snowed four inches the day my sister graduated from Clarkson. It was mid May.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Watty »

She wants to major in fashion merchandising and ....
With a degree like that it would be very good to have a strong minor in a complementary program or even double major. That would help her stand out for getting work in that field or to have a fallback position in case she needs to find work in an unrelated field.

It would be good to look at the programs to see which one it set up might work better with a secondary degree program that she might be interested in.

The reason that I say this is that by the time I was going into my junior year the ecomony shifted and I could see that my major no longer had good job prospects so I switched my major and minor and get a degree in what had been my minor.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by kaudrey »

Has she visited the schools?

When I went to school, oh so many (20) years ago now, I visited a bunch I thought I was interested in, and fell in love with the campus, vibe, and people of where I ended up. It was a small private school in CT (about 3K students). Two years later, my sister went through the same process, and ended up at Cornell (upstate NY, 18K+ students). I visited her there several times while we were both in college, and I think I would have not liked attending there. Everyone is different.

And the association with FIT will be more important, I think, than which one of these schools she picks. BTW, I grew up in NY, and at least back then, the SUNY schools had, at least overall, a good reputation.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by staythecourse »

If you looking to do a pro and con list other then cost and child's preference then the only considerations I would look at is how different are the schools in getting a job after graduation. College is for education NOT a social club. Kids will find friends no matter where they go or what temperature it is outside. They adapt remarkably well. What they need help on is guidance from adults on what is important in securing jobs in 4 yrs.

If she is set on fashion industry then I would say the first key is to have her go and meet/ shadow someone in the industry. If she is going to be poor doing what she loves then she should be aware in advance. If she is trying to get into a very entry career she should know that in advance. If she is getting into a field that really is determined by personal abilities and NOT where they went to school she should know that.

Good luck.
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frugaltype
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by frugaltype »

URI, which has a close relationship with RISD.

http://www.uri.edu/hss/tmd/grads.html
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by hicabob »

Go visit them both if possible - Oneonta is quite the classic upstate town (or used to be 10 years or so ago last time I saw it). SUNY + Hartnell make it a college town. The slightly more ritzy Cooperstown and Otsego Lake is nearby - both of which are quite fun & have vacation-type-stuff to do, and give you a flavor of the place. A visit would probably answer your questions.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by indexmonkey »

Watty wrote:
She wants to major in fashion merchandising and ....
With a degree like that it would be very good to have a strong minor in a complementary program or even double major. That would help her stand out for getting work in that field or to have a fallback position in case she needs to find work in an unrelated field.

It would be good to look at the programs to see which one it set up might work better with a secondary degree program that she might be interested in.

The reason that I say this is that by the time I was going into my junior year the ecomony shifted and I could see that my major no longer had good job prospects so I switched my major and minor and get a degree in what had been my minor.

I think the minor comment is a really good suggestion (I don't mean to judge the major just being practical). From everything I know academically Delaware is a pretty good school. Don't know about the other. Always impressed by their grads, of which I have known a few.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by scubadiver »

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WhyNotUs
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by WhyNotUs »

Will the diploma say FIT? That seems like the stamp to get on one's passport. The connections from being there are likely to add value to either school's education.

I gave up with my daughters. Neither went to the school that was my first choice. I just told them what I was willing to pay (full cost of in-state tuition room/board) and let them have the final decision. It became anticlimactic once the scholarships came in as the delta was manageable and they both had good paying summer jobs. None of us ended up with any debit and they both went to private liberal arts schools.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by joe8d »

All things being equal, I almost always will favor the SUNY school primarily due to the low in-state tuition and generally decent educational opportunities. What really seals the deal for me in this case is your daughter's field of interest. Maybe I'm just completely and utterly ignorant of the opportunity space here, but I would have to think that unless your daughter has some very exceptional and unique talents, the fashion degree is not going to convey a substantial earnings potential. Bottom Line: She wants to graduate with as little debt as possible.
:thumbsup

A friend of mine's two daughters graduated from a private four year college with a similar major and ended up working in stores doing jobs that high school grards do.
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

Thanks for all the responses. I showed this conversation to my daughter and I think she got alot out of it. A couple quick answers to some of the questions asked:

1) We visited both schools. She liked them both. Delaware would get the edge based on the visit. We plan to make round two of visits before the May 1 decision.

2) URI - She got into that school as well. She even got a scholarship there which would bring the price somewhere between Delaware and Oneonta. The FIT program is what made her focus on Delaware and Oneonta. She's still considering URI but I wanted to focus this thread between Delaware and Oneonta.

3) I certainly agree that a strong minor (maybe in business) would be big plus.

The one point I keep coming back to in my head is that I would never want to deny my child a better education based on cost (within reason - of course, who's to say if $67k is within reason). I want her to be happy and motivated. I plan on spending the next month helping her study the two programs and try to help make a decision based on where I think she will be most motivated to learn.
Last edited by markcoop on Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by livesoft »

joe8d wrote:A friend of mine's two daughters graduated from a private four year college with a similar major and ended up working in stores doing jobs that high school grards do.
A friend of mine's daughter graduated and eventually became the store manager of a major department store, then manager of the flagship store in that state, and then moved up in the corporate structure of that business.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by beachplum »

livesoft wrote:
joe8d wrote:A friend of mine's two daughters graduated from a private four year college with a similar major and ended up working in stores doing jobs that high school grards do.
A friend of mine's daughter graduated and eventually became the store manager of a major department store, then manager of the flagship store in that state, and then moved up in the corporate structure of that business.
Believe it or not even people who graduate from expensive schools and major in subjects with the potential of higher earnings can still end up doing jobs that a high school grad can do for any number of reasons i.e. they hate being an engineer and decide to become a musician instead. I just don't believe that because one goes to the Univ of Delaware they are automatically going to make more then the graduate from Oneonta regardless of their major.
fedsocprof
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by fedsocprof »

modelamike wrote:One daughter spent four years at and graduated from Delaware years ago. My impression was that the school made a lot of money on out of state students by over booking dorms, classes and student services. Support for various problems was insufficient and school officials were unreachable and unpleasant if somehow contacted. It was a waste of money compared to an in state college. She just had to go there, but I thought her college experience was sadly spoiled by the lack of focus on students.

Speaking as a Delaware grad and a lifelong Delaware resident, I agree entirely with this view.

For these reasons alone, I would never send (and, if fact, never have sent) any of my children to Delaware.
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stickman731
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by stickman731 »

My stepson graduated FIT. After his freshman year in the dorms, we roomed with 3 other FIT students in Brooklyn. He was the only one to complete his BFA in graphics arts. I tried to convince him to get into STEM (I am a chemist), but he wanted artsy. Very touch job environment - husseling for free-lance work or low paying entry positions after two years. He supplements his income by working three days a week as a barista in a trendy coffee shop. Now lives in WIlliamsburg section of Brooklyn. Great kid following his dream which I admire.
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tennisplyr
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by tennisplyr »

I live in NY and had a similar decision. We offered my daughter a choice of a private college or NYS one (much cheaper) plus a car. She went for the private one. As long as the schools are roughly comparably good for what you are looking forward sits subjective. My daughter felt more comfortable about the school she chose and went to and did quite well. We loved the experience as well.
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JamesSFO
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by JamesSFO »

markcoop wrote: Some good questions here. First, money will still be growing, so part of that $330,000 may grow for another decade. Second, with so many variables (scholarships, growth of the market, tuition costs), I'm not just trying to divide the money in thirds. If I need to add more money, that's always a possibility. Loans too are always a possibility past this amount.

That middle ground is exactly what I told my daughter. I always thought a student should have some skin in the game. So, I basically just want to do the most prudent thing here without getting too crazy about equal amounts.

I appreciate all the responses. Alot of good information.
Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders about all of this and one last kibbitz.

Totally understand about not wanting to divide the money precisely into thirds, but there are risk factors of negative events. E.g. you lose your job, have to stop contributing to the college savings, market collapses and fund declines significantly in value, etc.

So I still think there there should be _some_ bias against spending nearly 50% on one of three kids at least until you have better visibility on those risk factors.

Also since this the oldest, there is some value to setting a precedent about how much you will pay upfront and what they can expect. And again, you can help with loan paybacks after the fact finances permitting.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by White Coat Investor »

markcoop wrote:My daughter is a senior in high school and we're trying to decide between two schools that offer a certain program. She wants to major in fashion merchandising and wants to go to a school that has a joint program with the Fashion Institute of Technology (she'd spend 1 year in NYC going to FIT). The two schools she's deciding between is the State University of NY at Oneonta (I live in NY) and the University if Delaware. Here's a quick pro/con list I cam up with:

Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
2) Size: 18,000 students
3) Weather: a little better
4) 2.5 hours from home
5) Considered a better school

SUNY Oneonta:
1) Cost: $89,736
2) Size: 6,000 students
3) Weather: a little worse (10 degrees colder)
4) 3.5-4 hours from home

EDIT: One mistake above. Oneonta is 2.5 hours from home and Delaware is 3.5-4 hours from home.


I know some of these items are subjective and I'm trying to figure out things like... will my daughter do better in a smaller school? Will it be better to be in a location where she could come home easily for the weekend like Oneonta?

I'd be interested in any opinions people may have. Is the Delaware education or name worth the price difference?

I have 3 children and have saved $330,000 in college savings plans for them. Hard to predict the other children's needs but they are good students. No financial aid available other than unsubsidized students loans (current rate = 3.86%) at $5,500/year.

Thanks for any help in making this decision
I almost spit my drink all over the computer screen. $89-157K for any undergraduate degree, much less one in fashion, seems unwise in my view. But you can obviously afford the luxury given the exceptional job you have done saving for them.

The other question I always have on these threads is why are you making this decision? Why not ask her what she wants to do and do that? Or is she asking your advice? Neither I nor my parents thought my parents should have any input into my decisions about college, med school, or residency. But I guess they weren't paying the bill. At any rate, I'd go to the cheaper one and save the difference for an MBA or something later.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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frugalhen
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by frugalhen »

fedsocprof wrote:
modelamike wrote:One daughter spent four years at and graduated from Delaware years ago. My impression was that the school made a lot of money on out of state students by over booking dorms, classes and student services. Support for various problems was insufficient and school officials were unreachable and unpleasant if somehow contacted. It was a waste of money compared to an in state college. She just had to go there, but I thought her college experience was sadly spoiled by the lack of focus on students.

Speaking as a Delaware grad and a lifelong Delaware resident, I agree entirely with this view.

For these reasons alone, I would never send (and, if fact, never have sent) any of my children to Delaware.
I too echo these remarks.the admin is dreadful and increasingly politically correct, more than most places.

Having said this, I feel I received a good education there and like going back to football games.

It seems the posters child wants to go there so I am not sure why it matters what we think. Frankly (and somewhat judgmentally) with that majority does not seem like this decision will be based financially. :oops:
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Igglesman
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by Igglesman »

One other advantage possibly for U of D is that Newark is right on the Amtrak east coast corridor...easy commute to NYC or possibly where you live.
On Friday's it is very easy to carpool to NYC.

U of D also offers the advantage, if your daughter's interests change, the university has plenty of other disciplines to major in.

Any other questions on U of D or Newark, just ask away.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by hiddensee »

frugalhen wrote:Frankly (and somewhat judgmentally) with that majority does not seem like this decision will be based financially. :oops:
Agreed. And while my rational mind rebels, I know I would find it hard to tell my child that I would not let them do something they have their heart set on.

One possible alternative: give the daughter her 1/3 share of the college fund cash, and let her do what she likes with it. Including not go to college. If she then still chose Delaware, that would let her pay most of the cost, without disadvantaging the other children.
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

Some responses:

1) JamesSFO - I have always viewed college savings as one pot of money shared by all. If daughter 1 spends more than her share, and I feel I can't make up the difference out of my savings (clearly if they all cost this much I wouldn't be able to), than there will be loans that the kids will have to pay. You make a good point and I do agree with the sentiment.

2) EmergDoc - My daughter will have a large part in making the decision. In fact, I would never make her go to a school she does not want to go to. In this case, she has indicated that both schools are a good choice. I agree with that conclusion, although we've started to investigate the programs to get a deeper understanding of the differences. Having said that, if I'm paying over a $100k, I feel I should have a say as well (at least if she wants me to contribute the majority of the cost).

3) frugalhen - I like input from others, so I think it does matter what others think. Ultimately, my daughter, my wife and myself will make the decision based on our thoughts that were shaped by reserach, gut feel and opinions we've heard and agreed with. Didn't understand your last sentence, but cost is a factor. However, it is clearly not the only factor. If I really thought that the school would make a difference (I'm still pondering this thought), then I would find a way to make it work.

4) Igglesman - Good points on location. Delaware does get a small edge in offerings if she changes her mind.

5) hiddensee - I already told my daughter that if she chooses Delaware, she will have some loans to pay back. If she still chooses Delaware, knowing that, I will have a better feeling about the choice of Delaware. I still feel, and hopefully continue to feel, that my job as a parent is to offer guidance. Not make decisions for her at this point, but show her the pros and cons as I see them.
Last edited by markcoop on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DanDav
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by DanDav »

markcoop wrote:
Delaware:
1) Cost: $157,014 ($67,278 more)
2) Size: 18,000 students
3) Weather: a little better
4) 2.5 hours from home
5) Considered a better school

SUNY Oneonta:
1) Cost: $89,736
2) Size: 6,000 students
3) Weather: a little worse (10 degrees colder)
4) 3.5-4 hours from home

EDIT: One mistake above. Oneonta is 2.5 hours from home and Delaware is 3.5-4 hours from home.

What it comes down to is where is she going to get the most return on your investment? Why is Delaware considered a better school? Is she going to have more opportunity there or are you just paying for the name? Are the professors better? Will the school help her get meaningful internships? Is she going to learn the skills, and make the connections that will translate into a job into the industry?

Any other question is pretty much a non-issue as far as a purely educational standpoint is concerned, and is something you should leave up to your daughter. She knows best if she'd rather go to a big school or a small school, ect.
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by hiddensee »

However you did make the decision to give her $110k, without which her options would be different. And as others have pointed out, it's perhaps not likely that the $110k will repay itself. Of course socially, it is expected, regardless of payout, but she is not a completely independent actor here.
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

DanDav - I think the issues are more connected than you state. If my daughter learns better in smaller classes, then the size of the school (assuming it relates to the number of kids in classes) is a factor to how good an education she will get. But the main issue is as you state - Where will she get a better education? I'm trying to figure that out.

hiddensee - True. She would have different decisions if I hadn't saved money for her. I'm glad. She's not a totally independent actor here, but I don't think I ever implied that she was. But she does have some skin in the game and I'm glad that is a factor here.
Last edited by markcoop on Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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livesoft
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by livesoft »

Which place has the best chance for an ideal son-in-law?
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markcoop
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Re: Tough college choice

Post by markcoop »

livesoft wrote:Which place has the best chance for an ideal son-in-law?
That's funny because my wife and I actually discussed it.
Mark
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