New Toyota Sienna vs Used

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spth
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Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:31 am

New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by spth »

We are looking to get a Toyota Sienna. We live in MN and need AWD. Based on Craigslist search we can buy a used Sienna with 100,000 miles for around $11,000. Years range from 2005-07. We would pay cash. A new Sienna is around $33,000 after $750 rebate and 0% financing for 60 month. Current offer is for both the rebate and 0% financing.

We would drive it 5,000 miles/year and regardless of the choice would hope to keep the vehicle for 10+ years. We don't need fancy, but AWD is a must. Which is the better financial decision?
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timboktoo
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by timboktoo »

Keep a few grand around to pay for a new transmission and brakes when you need them, but I'd take the $11,000 sienna over a new one any day. How do you get away with only driving 5,000 miles a year? Is there a reason you're drawn to the van instead of something like a RAV4?

- Tim
siriusoracle
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by siriusoracle »

Why a AWD sienna? Like the earlier comment, is Subaru Outback an option? An new AWD outback will be less than $33K for base model.
Topic Author
spth
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by spth »

Thanks for the replies.

We live in the city and it's mainly to drive the kids around. We have two kids and need room for carpooling. We also will have a 3rd child soon. We do drive "Up North" 10 or so times per year which is 300 mile round trip and is included in the 5000 miles.

If you visit the Twin Cities in the winter you'd know why AWD.
MN Finance
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by MN Finance »

We also live in MN and put about the same miles on our vehicle (maybe closer to 8k). 4 years ago we purchased a new sienna but considered used. Although in the used column we had one that was a couple years old with low miles. We chose new because the price difference was not nearly as significant. You're two choices are vastly different wrt each other. I also preferred to have my spouse hauling 4 toddlers around in a newer vehicle vs older. I'd rather own a vehicle in years 0-10 than 10-20 (or most preferably years 3-13). This may be less bogleheaded than your $11k option but we could afford it and paid cash. Since you're not looking at two similar options, it's going to be hard for anyone to tell you what's best, some of it will be personal preference. We are also very glad we selected AWD especially in weeks like the last one. Most/all here think it's a waste of money, but I wouldn't have it any different.
Topic Author
spth
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by spth »

Thanks MN Finance. We could pay cash for new, but there is no discount to do so, and therefore would take 5 year 0% financing. I chose disparate examples because it does seem clear that if the option were between almost new and new it would be a no brainer.

Safety issues are important and favor new.

One of my main hang ups with new is that I'm concerned that the gasoline engine will be obsolete in 10 years. Am I crazy? I feel like a major energy storage breakthrough is close. This is based on pure optimism in human ingenuity.
rec7
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by rec7 »

spth wrote:
One of my main hang ups with new is that I'm concerned that the gasoline engine will be obsolete in 10 years. Am I crazy? I feel like a major energy storage breakthrough is close. This is based on pure optimism in human ingenuity.
If that comes true less people will be buying gas making gas cheaper. Remember supply and demand.
Topic Author
spth
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by spth »

rec7 wrote:
spth wrote:
One of my main hang ups with new is that I'm concerned that the gasoline engine will be obsolete in 10 years. Am I crazy? I feel like a major energy storage breakthrough is close. This is based on pure optimism in human ingenuity.
If that comes true less people will be buying gas making gas cheaper. Remember supply and demand.
Do you think there would be much demand for 10 year-old Siennas? Or maybe the drop in gas price would create more demand?
nanosour
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by nanosour »

I'm the original owner of a 2006 Sienna LX. Great vehicle for toting the kids around of which we have 3. I would recommend getting a used one that is for sale by an original owner. If it's in good/excellent condition with less than 8K/year average, it should easily last 10+ years. Ours has 80K and going forward we too will put about 5K-6k/year on it in a northern climate. I plan to keep it till she dies in true Boglehead fashion.

I would avoid the AWD and go with a good set of snow tires during the winter season. We live in a pretty hilly city and have never had any trouble with the snow. When I bought, the AWD tires were run-flats and you want to avoid them if you can. They are very expensive to replace and are more trouble than they are worth. You might want to do a google search on the pro and cons of them.

Good luck with your purchase.
goaties
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by goaties »

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enebyberg
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by enebyberg »

We have a 2008 Sienna XLE and moved from the US to Sweden in 2009. Long and sometimes harsh winters. We use four snow tires during the winter and have never felt the need for an AWD. I would suggest looking into four winter snow tires instead of AWD. You will save a lot on maintenance as the car gets older.
smackboy1
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by smackboy1 »

We own a 2007 Limited AWD with 100+K miles. The thing is bullet proof with winter tires. AWD is not necessary where I live (NJ) but it does help with traction in the deep snow doing uphill. AWD does not require any additional maintenance until maybe 120K miles when the differential oil may be changed. But it does reduce the MPG because of weight and driveline friction. In 2007 Toyota debuted a new V6 engine. We've had issues with oil leaks and recalls. Maybe in later models the kinks were worked out.

Check out http://www.siennachat.com/
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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jimb_fromATL
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Location: Atlanta area & Piedmont Triad NC and Interstate 85 in between.

A few thoughts:

Post by jimb_fromATL »

spth wrote:We are looking to get a Toyota Sienna. We live in MN and need AWD. Based on Craigslist search we can buy a used Sienna with 100,000 miles for around $11,000. Years range from 2005-07. We would pay cash. A new Sienna is around $33,000 after $750 rebate and 0% financing for 60 month. Current offer is for both the rebate and 0% financing.

We would drive it 5,000 miles/year and regardless of the choice would hope to keep the vehicle for 10+ years. We don't need fancy, but AWD is a must. Which is the better financial decision?
You can indeed do fairly well with 2wd and snow tires as others have posted, provided you’re never driving where there any steep hills, and the snow is not too deep. Going up steep hills with front-wheel-drive greatly reduces your traction.

However, one of the big advantages of AWD is being able to get around the people who are stuck, or to take side roads when the main roads are jammed, and to avoid skidding cars by driving off the beaten path and still not get stuck yourself.

How’s the terrain where you drive … especially where you go up north?
  • (In Atlanta where I live and nobody has snow tires and very few people know how to start or stop or steer on snow or ice, so that’s very important. Plus, without 4wd or tire chains, you cannot climb the steep grades in the near-mountainous terrain on the north/northwest side of the metro area —especially on neighborhood streets. (If you don’t have 4wd or chains, you don’t get out of or into my neighborhood --with its 15% to 20% grades-- when it’s icy).
Another problem is ground clearance. In deep snow, a 2wd vehicle can have snow pack up under the belly and reduce the weight on the drive wheels. The AWD Sienna appears to have slightly higher ground clearance, in addition to having better traction. Do you know people who have AWD Siennas, and do they do OK in deep snow in your neck of the woods? I'd expect a 2wd Sienna with the right tires to do OK in a few inches of snow, but with less ground clearance it might have problems if the snow or drifts are very deep.

Speaking of the "right" tires, are you aware that Sienna AWDs don't have a spare tire? They use special "run flat" tires with sidewalls that are stiff enough to lt you limp home -- or to a tire store-- slowly, provided it's only a loss of air from a leak, and not a damaged tire. I dont think I'd want to be out in a snow storm or super-cold temperatures without a real spare tire.

One thing to look out for is that virtually every used AWD Sienna I've ever seen for sale has normal tires, which will leave you stranded if one goes flat. So bear in mind thaty you might have to buy a new (and expensive) set of run-flat tires, or else buy an after-market spare wheel and tire. (Since it’s AWD, the tiny donut spares can possibly damage to the drive train). Then there's a problem because the spare takes up luggage space because there’s no place else to put it… which is why it doesn’t have one in the first place.

For no more than you drive, $33K is a lot to have tied up doing nothing apparently a lot of the time, so a used on might be better use of your money.

But bear in mind that at 100K there are a lot of things that can cost many hundreds of dollars that are coming up as routine maintenance. In addition to tires, a biggy is the timing belt and possibly water pump. Also by that age, the shock/struts may be worn, and it may be time to replace rather than just reface the brake rotors. The serpentine belt is also about ready to be replaced if it hasn’t already and chances are it’s time for transmission fluid and coolant system fluid changes, and new spark plugs.

Be aware that in recent years there have been several investigative reports by various news sources that found that for about half or more of the vehicles advertised online at sites like craig’ list and in the classifieds and car trader magazines by "individuals" the sellers were actually "curbstoners"; unlicensed "dealers" who were misrepresenting either themselves or the cars, or both. My personal experience has been about the same.

So I’d guess your chance of really getting a good car from the original owner are pretty slim. This also makes it imperative that you see a CarFax or other vehicle history report, and take the car to a mechanic who you personally know or trust, or to a service or dealer that you choose to have the vehicle checked out for mechanical and body damage.

You can click here and here to see a couple of other recent threads where the AWD Sienna is discussed.

jimb
delawaremother
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by delawaremother »

We have an 01 Sienna with 192k and are the original owners.

It is FWD, and we live in Wisconsin. It has served us well in all weather.

Other than the usual maintenance, it has been a good van, and is now our
cheap all around beater van.

No plans to get rid of it. It's still very useful, though not as pretty as it once was.
Sweet Betsy
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by Sweet Betsy »

Buy the used Sienna. We have a 11 year old Sienna with approximately 160,000 miles on it. It's been a great vehicle. We have studded snow tires on it and it is a beast in the snow. We've taken it into the mountains of Utah and on the winding roads of New England (with half a foot of snow on the roads) with no problems at all. I do not believe that it is an AWD. We are planning on getting at least another 5 years out of it.
rallycobra
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by rallycobra »

Buy used awd and make sure you purchase a new set of winter snow tires and wheels with the money you save over new. I would also consider a pre purchase inspection at a toyota dealer or local mechanic. When you get it change all of the fluids, belts, radiator hoses, and water pump. You should be good for another 100k.
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freebeer
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Location: Seattle area USA

Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by freebeer »

Regarding "curbstoners" I have bought many cars from private parties and only once from a pseudo-dealer. That was a salvage title car 25 years ago. It ran for about 20 more years (me and then passed on to a family member) so it turned out to be a good deal but I think that was the exception, i.e. we got lucky. So I think the main thing is to avoid salvage/rebuilt title as this is a primary way that these curbstoners operate (at least in my state) and you really can't resell these cars again. Carfax (or equiv.) can also tell you a lot of other things. Anyway you can find "original owner" cars (inc. on craigslist) and they tend to be good deals.
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Watty
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Re: New Toyota Sienna vs Used

Post by Watty »

Based on Craigslist search we can buy a used Sienna with 100,000 miles for around $11,000. Years range from 2005-07. We would pay cash. A new Sienna is around $33,000 after $750 rebate and 0% financing for 60 month. Current offer is for both the rebate and 0% financing.

We would drive it 5,000 miles/year and regardless of the choice would hope to keep the vehicle for 10+ years.

Even if you don't plan on driving it a lot of miles planning on keeping a car until it is about 17 to 19 years old is may not be a realistic plan. It is possible but I would not want to count on it.

It would also be good to check the prices on Edmunds.com, the used car price you mentioned sounds very high.
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