Should I move to California from Midwest?
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Agree with LadyGeek - you cant get family time back and stress and long hours will take a toll on you and your family. Nothing is that interesting that I want to give up 60-70-80 hrs a week for it. In year 3 at this job would you be happy learning something new with those hours? Sounds like hopping into a faster rat race...Find something else outside of work and that may satisfy the learning bug. My 2c.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Midwest is a general term. Does that mean Cleveland? Chicago? Akron? Little town no one has heard of?
The highest expense in NoCal is housing, that is true, but at the same time you are building equity, I am not sure if people making that complaint about high cost of living consider that fact. Do you have relatives in the Midwest? How old are your kids? If they are young, they'll be better able to make new friends and just, older the age, harder to do so? Other people have mentioned some factors to look at it, beyond the dollars, but that's a hugely personal decision no one else can answer, especially not anonymous people on a forum.
I would say though, consider how stable your current job is. The Midwest isn't exactly thriving. Will your job be around in 5 yerars? I am sure that Silicon Valley and the related employment opportunities will be around for the next 50.
The highest expense in NoCal is housing, that is true, but at the same time you are building equity, I am not sure if people making that complaint about high cost of living consider that fact. Do you have relatives in the Midwest? How old are your kids? If they are young, they'll be better able to make new friends and just, older the age, harder to do so? Other people have mentioned some factors to look at it, beyond the dollars, but that's a hugely personal decision no one else can answer, especially not anonymous people on a forum.
I would say though, consider how stable your current job is. The Midwest isn't exactly thriving. Will your job be around in 5 yerars? I am sure that Silicon Valley and the related employment opportunities will be around for the next 50.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
We are planning to move to the LA area from South Central Wisconsin in about a year for one reason--our only child lives there. I don't really care for California, I am an east coast person and lived there until our Midwestern sojourn 10 years ago. California will be more expensive, but money really isn't an issue at this stage of out lives. We lived in DC and its suburbs for 30 years and I am not looking forward to having to deal again with traffic. We also want to get out of the mind-numbing cold, but if it wasn't for our child being on the west coast we would be heading to Hilton Head South Carolina.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
If I were doing this for a few years of experience with a new job and a new area, I would make the move but probably not bother with the struggle to buy a house. I have a spent a lot of time in the area, from 1967 on. I would weary of the long hours you describe, the terrible traffic, the high cost of everything, the taxes. You'll probably be paying at least 37% of your income in state and federal tax, an 8% plus sales tax, high gas taxes, energy costs, and water. Property taxes are only 1%, but think of the purchase price that is multiplied against. In housing, you will not be able to afford much in the way of charm or luxury. California public schools in general are terrible, though it may be different in SV. I hate the dryness of California at the best of times, and now we are in a drought; the landscape looks like rye krisp. That said, for a few years I'd do it, add to the resume, enjoy la difference, and then decide where I really want to live. Myself, I'm still trying to decide.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
How are you sure of that? If you had asked someone that about Detroit at the right points they would have said the same thing, right until the opportunities evaporated.denovo wrote:...
I would say though, consider how stable your current job is. The Midwest isn't exactly thriving. Will your job be around in 5 yerars? I am sure that Silicon Valley and the related employment opportunities will be around for the next 50.
Or how about Seattle and Microsoft...?
I love the Valley, I live in the SF Bay Area, but I am not 100% certain that opportunities will be here for 50 years.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Begin with the end in mind. If family time is most important, then do not take a job that will require a lot of time away from family. Stress will also take time away. I moved from Chicago to Texas 17 years ago for a great opportunity. It afforded more time with my family, more income and more comfort on many levels. I live in a home that would be unaffordable in California. I wanted to have the ability to retire at a young age and be able to enjoy my children. I have had time to travel with the family, coach my kids' teams and help with schoolwork. I come home everyday to have lunch with my wife. Time was the most important factor, both in the present and in the future. It comes from living in an area that is not overcrowded, not expensive and not overtaxed (or excessive fees). The sun shines 300+ days a year. It is hot in the summer and beautiful in the winter. It will be 78 today (December 20). I would look in Texas. There are a lot of high tech jobs here.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Detroit never had the breadth of industry opportunities that the Bay Area (area vs city) has. I'm not aware of any place in the country that has as many tendrils into strong companies and industries as this Area. We even have some manufacturing, although it's more of the technical prototype sort and not the billions of the same widget kind. Hell, we have an oil refinery even.JamesSFO wrote:How are you sure of that? If you had asked someone that about Detroit at the right points they would have said the same thing, right until the opportunities evaporated.
Or how about Seattle and Microsoft...?
I love Seattle and the entire NW corner of Washington having spent quite a bit of time there. but I just don't see it as quite as economically vibrant as the Bay Area.
To those argueing about schools not being good in California, you're surely smoking something if you can't find good schools in this area. Sure, there are poor schools. But even in not as great districts, like SF, you have individual schools like Lowell High School. If you move out to the 'burbs, Atherton, Palo Alto, Los Altos, Cupertino, etc., you cannot find better public school districts anywhere. Foreign language immersion is all over the place in public schools as well.
However, housing is expensive. $190k will not buy you the same lifestyle out here as $120k will anywhere in the Midwest. I know having spent time near Minneapolis that large houses, and basements, are nearly a requirement because of the winters. I prefer my smaller house on the peninsula. I don't have a forest on my own property, but I have miles of hiking in the hills less than a mile from my home. Then I can go in the other direction and hit more hiking. Or the beach. Or the museums and symphony, etc., of the city is less than 30 minutes away.
There's culture in the large cities of the Midwest, but there's just not as much diversity of experiences and thought as out here, which I value. Although we're losing that, especially in SF.
Work is the curse of the drinking class - Oscar Wilde
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
The job challenge has to be the prime factor, but I do want to point out one other thing that has always been a key reason I still live in Silicon Valley. The weather is the best on the planet. There is no time of year I can't expect to take my daily 1-hour walk around town in blissful comfort. No hot humid times, no freezing temperatures.......none. The range of walking attire seasonally ranges from shorts to a sweatshirt and maybe a light jacket. Once in a blue moon I carry an umbrella. I will admit to my walking getting cancelled due to heavy rain/wind no more than a couple of times a year.
It will be heavenly weather to a Midwesterner.
JW
ps: this doesn't apply to SF itself, it can be darn foggy/windy/cold there.
It will be heavenly weather to a Midwesterner.
JW
ps: this doesn't apply to SF itself, it can be darn foggy/windy/cold there.
Retired at Last
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Happy birthday! Be careful when stating general statistics. You can have the worst job in the world in a "high tech" position, but enjoy a "low tech" position immensely. It all depends on the exact job you have and the people you work with.goodenyou wrote:It will be 78 today (December 20). I would look in Texas. There are a lot of high tech jobs here.
The OP is wondering whether or not to throw it all away for one specific job which may not exist in a few years. My opinion still holds - he really doesn't want to move and is looking to the forum to convince him otherwise.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I grew up on the east coast and moved to the midwest. I will never go back. I would assume this is simualar to west coast.
Cost of living is tcheaper. I can buy a much nicer house here for cheaper.
Job is less stressful, i think the coasts have a go-go work attitude.
Commute is shorter
People are generally nicer and low-key. (Not to offend anyone but: you will have a lot more yuppies and materialistic people in California)
Cost of living is tcheaper. I can buy a much nicer house here for cheaper.
Job is less stressful, i think the coasts have a go-go work attitude.
Commute is shorter
People are generally nicer and low-key. (Not to offend anyone but: you will have a lot more yuppies and materialistic people in California)
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I went to grad school in LA and many of my friends moved to NorCal after graduation. I worked in DC for 4 years and moved to Central Michigan 2+ years ago. If I have my way, I'd never move out of here. Job is less stressful, no traffic, commute is no problem and everything is pretty low-key (which I like, though it's quite subjective). Admittedly, there are fewer things to do here, but I am OK with it. Most of my friends from grad school who work in the Silicon Valley lead very stressful lives, crib about the commute and can't afford a decent house (with combined incomes >150K-200K). I was talking to my ex-roommate a couple of days ago and he was saying he that he is not spending enough time with him newborn twins because of long work hours. Do you really want all that?
Also, as LadyGeek says, your gut feeling is that you don't want to move. That should be a good enough reason not to do it itself.
Also, as LadyGeek says, your gut feeling is that you don't want to move. That should be a good enough reason not to do it itself.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
California would be awesome if it weren't for all of the Californians.
I'm (mostly) kidding. Having grown up in the Midwest and after spending a lot of time in different parts of the country, I'd caution you against making a hasty decision to move. The salary bump is indeed enticing, but the cost of living difference is hard to quantify. Not only in terms of the housing, taxes, and day-to-day expenses, but also including the toll that the complete change in lifestyle will take on you. Commuting, long working hours, etc.
I enjoy visiting California periodically. I don't think I could stand living there for an extended period. Climate only counts for so much unless you live in the middle of nowhere.
I'm (mostly) kidding. Having grown up in the Midwest and after spending a lot of time in different parts of the country, I'd caution you against making a hasty decision to move. The salary bump is indeed enticing, but the cost of living difference is hard to quantify. Not only in terms of the housing, taxes, and day-to-day expenses, but also including the toll that the complete change in lifestyle will take on you. Commuting, long working hours, etc.
I enjoy visiting California periodically. I don't think I could stand living there for an extended period. Climate only counts for so much unless you live in the middle of nowhere.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I wouldn't move to California for a job; in fact, I have been recruited for jobs there and wasn't interested because of their location. California is highly overrated in my opinion, and their fiscal situation is likely to deteriorate further, which means even higher taxes.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
One of the previous posters in this thread makes an important point. I wouldn't trust any job to be here for 30 years -- tech, manufacturing, medicine, whatever. Family, friends, stress-free lifestyle all are nice -- but if the economy shifts and you don't have a job in your area/career, those factors will mean squat. There isn't happiness when you are stressed about how to pay for your next meal.
Sure houses cost a ton in high demand areas of California ... but who says you have to buy? Rent while you are furthering your career and sock away as much as possible for your eventual move to where you really want to retire. After seeing the job-less recovery after 2008, putting down roots early in a career feels like a huge risk.
Sure houses cost a ton in high demand areas of California ... but who says you have to buy? Rent while you are furthering your career and sock away as much as possible for your eventual move to where you really want to retire. After seeing the job-less recovery after 2008, putting down roots early in a career feels like a huge risk.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Historically that's been true, but with all of the school funding lawsuits Kansas has had going on for years, combined with the recent drop in state revenues due to income tax changes, I think the future of Kansas schools is very uncertain. And Missouri has similar problems. Not sure about other midwestern states.HomerJ wrote:Nothing wrong with Kansas schools... Look up Blue Valley school district in Overland Park, KS (where I live)... Very good schools here...
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I went through most of this thread and I don't have a whole lot more to offer than what was already said. I've never worked in CA but my brother did for 7 years in San Jose. He had very fond memories of the area since he was an outdoor sports enthusiast. At the time, he was single and renting a place with a couple of other guys. After getting married he mentioned that the housing costs were brutal and came back to NY (upstate) to raise the family. So you have to weigh the taxes, housing and commuting against the benefits of living there (weather, schools etc..). It comes across, though, that you are leaning toward staying put. I wish you luck in whatever you decide.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Go for the job interview. Hit the freeways at rush hour. Look in realtors' windows. Stroll the Stanford shopping Center, but dress up first. Go have sushi on University Ave in Palo Alto and look around at the other tables. Will you feel comfortable working with the sort of vibe you get from the people around you?
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Thanks, but my birthday was last month. I sometimes respond to "It" though. If a person with a "high tech" degree wants a "low tech" job, by all means. I was assuming by the post that the OP was a "high tech" person looking to move into a "high tech" job. There are manual labor jobs here that can be rewarding too. I agree. I think the OP has to be convinced to change, and that usually means it's not a good fit.LadyGeek wrote:Happy birthday! Be careful when stating general statistics. You can have the worst job in the world in a "high tech" position, but enjoy a "low tech" position immensely. It all depends on the exact job you have and the people you work with.goodenyou wrote:It will be 78 today (December 20). I would look in Texas. There are a lot of high tech jobs here.
The OP is wondering whether or not to throw it all away for one specific job which may not exist in a few years. My opinion still holds - he really doesn't want to move and is looking to the forum to convince him otherwise.
Last edited by goodenyou on Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Lowell is a magnet school with competitive admission; there's no guarantee that your kid will be able to attend even if you live next door. A $190k income won't allow you to buy a house in Atherton, Palo Alto, Los Altos, or Cupertino, but a condo might be possible. There are other good school districts where $190k will go farther (e.g. Almaden Valley in San Jose) but at the expense of a longer commute. I don't think anyone is arguing that there are no good schools in Silicon Valley. But most of the schools aren't very good, and the cost of housing in the good districts is extremely high.ThatGuy wrote: To those argueing about schools not being good in California, you're surely smoking something if you can't find good schools in this area. Sure, there are poor schools. But even in not as great districts, like SF, you have individual schools like Lowell High School. If you move out to the 'burbs, Atherton, Palo Alto, Los Altos, Cupertino, etc., you cannot find better public school districts anywhere. Foreign language immersion is all over the place in public schools as well.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
+2. I would not move either. If you know you will be doing all right next 30 years, why are you chasing for something else? For me, unless I really hate my job or hard to get by financially with current income, I wouldn't go anywhere. When you make a decision like this, make your family your first priority. More money is good, but happiness is very important. Whichever choice makes your family happy? That's your answer.frugaltype wrote:+1 I would not move. And contrary to what someone said above, house prices are not high in Silicon Valley because of the quality of life. The quality of life pretty much sucks now unless your idea of a good life is working 80 hours a week and hardly seeing your family., They are high because tech people are paid a lot of money. I bought a house there for about $58,000 a few decades ago and sold it for $1.2 million a decade ago when I moved away.LadyGeek wrote:^^^ Your tone is screaming "I don't want to do this..." Stop. Think. Relax.
The main reason you want to move is because you are looking for a new challenge. Have you considered volunteering your time (outside of the job) doing something challenging? It's very rewarding to help people and provides a challenge in its own right. You'll soon forget about the boredom at work and use the time as a break from your "other" job.
No one can predict more than a year or so into the future, so ignore what you think "might" happen.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
People are generally nicer and low-key. (Not to offend anyone but: you will have a lot more yuppies and materialistic people in California)
Oh come on, there are materialistic people everywhere. There are all types of people in California, I grew up in California and I have considered moving to a less desirable climate because there is indeed a lot of materialism in the nicer areas here, though I'm sure if I left, I would realize some of the things I'd be giving up that might be second nature, and I'm sure that in the 'nice' areas elsewhere, there probably still is a bunch of materialism.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
There is the web site called Salary that gives you some ideas about cost of living between your old and future locations.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Based on the OP's 2010 post, he lives in Minnesota which currently has a 4.8% unemployment rate. That's a bit better than the 8.7% of California.denovo wrote:I would say though, consider how stable your current job is. The Midwest isn't exactly thriving. Will your job be around in 5 yerars? I am sure that Silicon Valley and the related employment opportunities will be around for the next 50.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Have you checked out this cost of living calculator?
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
One of the biggest draws to the Bay Area is the opportunity. If you get laid off, downsized, or simply get bored, there are many other places nearby to find work. Or better yet, start something of your own. Engineering PhDs are always in demand here. I doubt the Midwest offers this much opportunity.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I had neighbors here in Charlotte who moved to No. CA for the husband's job. Both husband and wife were excited until they took a trip out there to house hunt. That was a severe reality check. The husband ended up doubling or tripling his commute time and they still ended up with half the house for twice the price. The wife was practically in tears after that house hunting trip. Also, don't use commute DISTANCE as your criteria for house research - you need to use commuting TIME at rush hour. Unless you are in Chicago or another large Midwest city, you will be positively amazed at the difference in commute time/mile driven.
Another consideration is how easy would it be to sell your house? I would talk to a few realtors and get a market analysis. You certainly don't want the stress of paying a mortgage and rent in CA. But you will need to get top dollar to maximize your down payment on any new home.
My advice would be to not accept the job without getting your wife out there to do some house hunting with a realtor.
Good luck with your decision!
Another consideration is how easy would it be to sell your house? I would talk to a few realtors and get a market analysis. You certainly don't want the stress of paying a mortgage and rent in CA. But you will need to get top dollar to maximize your down payment on any new home.
My advice would be to not accept the job without getting your wife out there to do some house hunting with a realtor.
Good luck with your decision!
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Go for it.
That's how you move forward in a career.
Staying put will get you nowhere.
That's how you move forward in a career.
Staying put will get you nowhere.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
He said his current house is paid off.cherijoh wrote:I had neighbors here in Charlotte who moved to No. CA for the husband's job. Both husband and wife were excited until they took a trip out there to house hunt. That was a severe reality check. The husband ended up doubling or tripling his commute time and they still ended up with half the house for twice the price. The wife was practically in tears after that house hunting trip. Also, don't use commute DISTANCE as your criteria for house research - you need to use commuting TIME at rush hour. Unless you are in Chicago or another large Midwest city, you will be positively amazed at the difference in commute time/mile driven.
Another consideration is how easy would it be to sell your house? I would talk to a few realtors and get a market analysis. You certainly don't want the stress of paying a mortgage and rent in CA. But you will need to get top dollar to maximize your down payment on any new home.
My advice would be to not accept the job without getting your wife out there to do some house hunting with a realtor.
Good luck with your decision!
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
My wife and I made a similar move 10 years ago - from a very average cost-of-living place in the US to the bay area (and in fact the most expensive city in the bay area).
At the time our salaries barely even budged - so we took a huge cut in the size of house we lived in (moved to a small 1 bedroom), and other costs went up obviously. Move was primarily with an eye to future opportunities, but also because northern ca is a beautiful and fun place.
Through work and luck, the opportunities showed up - I currently make more than 3x what I did 10 years ago in base salary, and have saved up a seven figure amount through options, etc. over the past few years, in my mid-thirties.
Still live in a fairly small place by american standards, with 2 kids, but it's just enough and we love it here.
YMMV
At the time our salaries barely even budged - so we took a huge cut in the size of house we lived in (moved to a small 1 bedroom), and other costs went up obviously. Move was primarily with an eye to future opportunities, but also because northern ca is a beautiful and fun place.
Through work and luck, the opportunities showed up - I currently make more than 3x what I did 10 years ago in base salary, and have saved up a seven figure amount through options, etc. over the past few years, in my mid-thirties.
Still live in a fairly small place by american standards, with 2 kids, but it's just enough and we love it here.
YMMV
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I lived in MN in a past life. He won't be able to cross-country ski to his job in the SV, but he won't go out to his car in the morning when it is minus 34 degrees to find his anti-freeze frozen.YttriumNitrate wrote: Based on the OP's 2010 post, he lives in Minnesota
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
OP I won't repeat many of the great observations of the pros and cons of both options. I personally moved from a high cost of living area to a low one and I couldn't be happier though I am also well aware of what I gave up. That said my decision and many others we made clear to me by my long term priorities, if you don't already have a long term plan for what you and your spouse want out of life I suggest you work on one. It makes big decisions like this so much easier, at least for me.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I think moving for an opportunity to make 3x as much in income plus other benefits is different. If I could make a lot more without working a lot harder and I could take home more after taxes, I would move too. Other than for possible extended family reasons, who wouldn't? The difference of an extra $70k in a high cost, high tax area would be a net loser. You would have to pay an expensive sunshine tax. IMO, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze in California at those numbers.schreck wrote:My wife and I made a similar move 10 years ago - from a very average cost-of-living place in the US to the bay area (and in fact the most expensive city in the bay area).
At the time our salaries barely even budged - so we took a huge cut in the size of house we lived in (moved to a small 1 bedroom), and other costs went up obviously. Move was primarily with an eye to future opportunities, but also because northern ca is a beautiful and fun place.
Through work and luck, the opportunities showed up - I currently make more than 3x what I did 10 years ago in base salary, and have saved up a seven figure amount through options, etc. over the past few years, in my mid-thirties.
Still live in a fairly small place by american standards, with 2 kids, but it's just enough and we love it here.
YMMV
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I did this a few months ago and already regret it. I am looking for a way back now.
Don't come here, people here are just different. Very materialistic. Even if you agree with the politics, there are other considerations. People are more rude. More segregated (not just black vs. white, koreans talk only to koreans, vietnamese to vietnamese, indians to indians, whites to whites --> hard to make friendships outside of your race, even at work). I guess that might be a plus point to some though.
Of course it ridiculously expensive here, and not just housing.
Don't come here, people here are just different. Very materialistic. Even if you agree with the politics, there are other considerations. People are more rude. More segregated (not just black vs. white, koreans talk only to koreans, vietnamese to vietnamese, indians to indians, whites to whites --> hard to make friendships outside of your race, even at work). I guess that might be a plus point to some though.
Of course it ridiculously expensive here, and not just housing.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I don't know how hard you tried. If what you say is true, you wouldn't see so many mixed marriages. When I am with the moms at the Y when I take my grandkids, I talk to Koreans, but my best friends are the Japanese Jew, the Chinese Filipina, and the relatively recent immigrant from Taiwan with whom I can practice my Mandarin. I am also friends with an Armenian, but she is usually speaking Russian with another woman. The very recent Korean immigrants tend to talk to each other, but these are stay at home moms who don't speak much English, however they are very polite when I am trying to find a place at the homework table for my granddaughter. [I forgot to mention the mom with the deaf child; I get to practice my limited ASL with her.]new2bogle wrote: Don't come here, people here are just different. Very materialistic. Even if you agree with the politics, there are other considerations. People are more rude. More segregated (not just black vs. white, koreans talk only to koreans, vietnamese to vietnamese, indians to indians, whites to whites --> hard to make friendships outside of your race, even at work).
This might not be your typical Midwestern Y, but it is typical of California. I do admit that you can have a mixed marriage in the Midwest; I made one in Minnesota long, long ago.
Do you have kids? It is impossible to have kids in school or other activities in CA and not make friends with people from other cultures.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I also live in the Twin Cities and work as a software engineer, and have worked both in IT organizations and in software companies. If you're bored by IT work in a company, there's no need to move to CA to get interesting work -- there is plenty where you live now for you to get involved in. You can work in R&D for Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle, Dell, Symantec, Lawson, or PTC, just to name a few large companies with significant presence. There are dozens of large IT consultancies that do interesting work for the large number of corporate headquarters in the area.
Pay close attention to the percentage of school age children who attend public schools in the SV neighborhoods you're considering. That is a strong proxy for public school satisfaction in an area.
Our office has more than one person who made the move out west and decided to come back.
Pay close attention to the percentage of school age children who attend public schools in the SV neighborhoods you're considering. That is a strong proxy for public school satisfaction in an area.
Our office has more than one person who made the move out west and decided to come back.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
My point was that I wasn't making 3x when I moved out here - I am now. When I moved I got basically zero raise. It was most definitely a net loser in the short term.goodenyou wrote: I think moving for an opportunity to make 3x as much in income plus other benefits is different. If I could make a lot more without working a lot harder and I could take home more after taxes, I would move too. Other than for possible extended family reasons, who wouldn't? The difference of an extra $70k in a high cost, high tax area would be a net loser. You would have to pay an expensive sunshine tax. IMO, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze in California at those numbers.
It was a bet that the opportunities would end up working out. They did. But like any bet, it definitely will not work out all of the time.
FWIW, I do not work crazy hours, and never have.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
"Cross-country skiing can be fun, but only if you live in a small country."sscritic wrote:He won't be able to cross-country ski to his job in the SV
-Stephen Wright
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Lots of states have serious budget problems. CA is one of them.blu9535 wrote:Historically that's been true, but with all of the school funding lawsuits Kansas has had going on for years, combined with the recent drop in state revenues due to income tax changes, I think the future of Kansas schools is very uncertain. And Missouri has similar problems. Not sure about other midwestern states.HomerJ wrote:Nothing wrong with Kansas schools... Look up Blue Valley school district in Overland Park, KS (where I live)... Very good schools here...
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Unless you really want to get away from family and/or bad weather, I wouldn't do it. It's not that great.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I gotta say, that's a strange point. If OP moves, he may be working at one of the few places where you can wear jeans everyday. Comparing a high-end shopping center with the actual work environment -- which may be one of the ones geared for comfort and creativity -- is a false comparison IMO.reisner wrote:Go for the job interview. Hit the freeways at rush hour. Look in realtors' windows. Stroll the Stanford shopping Center, but dress up first. Go have sushi on University Ave in Palo Alto and look around at the other tables. Will you feel comfortable working with the sort of vibe you get from the people around you?
On the other hand, we don't know where the OP is working. Maybe he'll have to strangle himself with a tie everyday...
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
When I grew up in Palo Alto, we went to the Stanford Shopping Center in shorts or jeans. Who dresses up to go the to mall? Of course, I don't dress up to go to Rodeo Drive either. Then there is my dad who went into a Mercedes dealership and no one would help him because he still had his gardening clothes on (he bought his from another dealer).pinecrest wrote:If OP moves, he may be working at one of the few places where you can wear jeans everyday. Comparing a high-end shopping center with the actual work environment -- which may be one of the ones geared for comfort and creativity -- is a false comparison IMO.reisner wrote:Stroll the Stanford shopping Center, but dress up first.
(We moved to town in the Spring of '56)The Roos Brothers clothing store opened as the first retailer in September 1955 and Blum's restaurant opened on October 22, 1956, marking the completion of the center.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
You mean there is some place on earth where tech workers can't wear jeans every day? That's...horrifying.pinecrest wrote: I gotta say, that's a strange point. If OP moves, he may be working at one of the few places where you can wear jeans everyday.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Most definitely.Bungo wrote:You mean there is some place on earth where tech workers can't wear jeans every day?pinecrest wrote: I gotta say, that's a strange point. If OP moves, he may be working at one of the few places where you can wear jeans everyday.
Yes it is.That's...horrifying.
So OP can add dress code to his list of factors to consider.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Look, life is an adventure or it is nothing. At 35 you have time to take a risk and should go for it. There are other things besides pure financial that add meaning. Worst thing you could do is end up at 60 still in the midwest wishing you went for it.
Likewise don't decide only on the high salary, as its not really that high for there. If the money was effectively the same in CA as where you are would the job challenge and experience still excite you? Does it excite your wife? If yes, do it.
Change your mind later and you can always go home.
_D_
Likewise don't decide only on the high salary, as its not really that high for there. If the money was effectively the same in CA as where you are would the job challenge and experience still excite you? Does it excite your wife? If yes, do it.
Change your mind later and you can always go home.
_D_
Truth and clarity are important in all things...
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Money-wise, it is pretty lateral move if you ask me, and I lived in both places. So my suggestion is to base your decision on other factors. If you want the place without snow season, this is good opportunity. If you have other close family members you'd find yourself far away from (eg aging parents), you may want to think if you are OK with that. Bay area is very nice, no questions about it. If you are outdoors-man type of person, you will love it. If you hate traffic, you may have problems at times. And so on and so forth.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Wow. I spent my first 24yrs of life in the area and have since lived all of the country. I can say that my experience is the exact opposite of yours. That being said, I'll never move back and I don't think it is worth it to the OP. Financially it might make sense in the long run; once you factor in the traffic, housing, and other quality of life factors it doesn't.new2bogle wrote:Don't come here, people here are just different. Very materialistic. Even if you agree with the politics, there are other considerations. People are more rude. More segregated (not just black vs. white, koreans talk only to koreans, vietnamese to vietnamese, indians to indians, whites to whites --> hard to make friendships outside of your race, even at work). I guess that might be a plus point to some though.
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Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
For what it is worth, I have lived on the east coast, the denver area, and in SoCal, and I love it here in CA. I have had many more career opportunities, a nicer environment, and more of what I want out of life. My state taxes are higher, but my property taxes are lower, and I find the political environment congenial. My red leaning friends deeper in Orange County, or out in Kern say the same thing in reverse.
You do get a lot less house for the money - if you want a 4000sf 5br on a half acre, be prepared to pay a lot. That said, only you know whether that is a need or a want.
Were it me,I would go for it. The salary sounds like a lateral move, and the only way to truly know is to try it.
You do get a lot less house for the money - if you want a 4000sf 5br on a half acre, be prepared to pay a lot. That said, only you know whether that is a need or a want.
Were it me,I would go for it. The salary sounds like a lateral move, and the only way to truly know is to try it.
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
I agree with reisner. Except for the newcomers from a different country, the people here will look at you differently if you do not dress the "california way", ie, designer shoes, jeans, shirts and sunglasses. One of my neighbors (I rent a house) has said hi to me and always is friendly, but nothing more. Rest have not even said a word let alone a wave or anything.pinecrest wrote:I gotta say, that's a strange point. If OP moves, he may be working at one of the few places where you can wear jeans everyday. Comparing a high-end shopping center with the actual work environment -- which may be one of the ones geared for comfort and creativity -- is a false comparison IMO.reisner wrote:Go for the job interview. Hit the freeways at rush hour. Look in realtors' windows. Stroll the Stanford shopping Center, but dress up first. Go have sushi on University Ave in Palo Alto and look around at the other tables. Will you feel comfortable working with the sort of vibe you get from the people around you?
On the other hand, we don't know where the OP is working. Maybe he'll have to strangle himself with a tie everyday...
People at the Target or Safeway, etc., are very rude. I see why people want to move to Los Gatos or Palo Alto - the rich people aren't rude to you. Just snobbish (nikes? That's for the serfs!). There are some VERY wealthy people here, driving around in $120k cars. I upped my insurance when I got here.
Drivers are very bad and aggressive. Some dude was walking in the middle of the street so I honked at him to get off, he started chasing my car.
Need more stories?
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
Weirdness in Silicon Valley real estate is not a new thing. As noted in my initial reply to the OP, when we moved to Sunnyvale in 1973 and bought our "starter home" (for $43K, mind you) my parents were aghast. When we sold it, in 1978, for $106K, they were totally bewildered. Were they alive today, and told that same house "zillowed" at over $1 million, they'd be incredulous. Yes, they were from Kansas (as was I, before leaving for LSJU).
Re: Should I move to California from Midwest?
What's your definition of long hours? 60? 70? 80 hours per week? 100 hour weeks and more--and that can include Sat and Sun and lots of work at home --are quite common in Silicon Valley. Not that many years ago when my ex moved from HP to Palm they decided to "run it [Palm] like a startup" which basically meant working so hard and long you did everything but sleep there. Obviously Palm needed more and he left in less than a year. As I'm sure most are aware, many of the high tech companies provide lots of benefits--24 hour food, ability for spouses to come eat with you at work, exercise facilities, medical care, massage, car repair, etc.-- all at work-- so you never have to leave and you never have to stop working!nwuyiqiao wrote:The new job will be stressful because 1) I am actually somewhat new to the field even though I have general knowledge of it. (I have a PhD in engineering field). 2)long hours, from what I heard about this company, due to new product release pressure
I lived in the SF Bay Area for almost 40 years and while there are great opportunities for recreation and lots of other perks, the quality of life has been declining fairly rapidly over the past few years. Do NOT discount the stories about the rudeness that abounds. Some of the newly wealthy would just as soon drive right over you in their $100K+ cars and the sense of entitlement not only by those with money but by workers most everywhere--big box stores, drug stores, grocery stores, etc. can make life quite unpleasant. I don't think a lot of folks in the Bay Area know the meaning of the words, "I'm sorry."
We moved 90 miles north 20 months ago and cannot believe the difference. In the whole time we've been here I think we've met two rude people. I'm constantly thanking employees who empty my grocery cart, carryout my groceries, actually provide service at department stores, etc. They always say, "why wouldn't I want to be nice?"