How to respond to request for current salary in an interview

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Meg77
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Meg77 »

Refusing to provide information on an application is not a negotiating technique, and refusing the question when you are asked directly in an interview is going to get you nowhere. I'm assuming you are being asked this question at an early interview by an HR rep because you left that information off of the application. Therefore it's safe to assume they are just trying to complete the application for processing rather than be hostile or use some hardball negotiating tactic on you.

Simply say "my total compensation is around XYZ (total comp includes medical benefits, 401k matching, bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc). Take the highest number you can honestly come up with and round up to the nearest $5,000. Then if you feel you need to, add any further information that seems relevant, such as how much more you are looking for or what range you feel is appropriate for this position, or that you've been promised a raise/bonus and would want that matched, or whatever.

Or just wait to see if they make you an offer and negotiate then. Once they want to hire you, you'll have more negotiating power. In the initial interview, you have zero, and if you seem hard to interview they will quickly extrapolate that you will be hard to work with.
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HomerJ
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

Marmot wrote:
Clearly_Irrational wrote:This is essentially an attempt to lowball you by anchoring the numbers where you're already at. I generally answer with something like "Is that an offer of employment?" then when they say no "Oh, then perhaps we should have that conversation later in the interviewing process". If they press, then personally I just tell them "I'm looking for X, is that within your range?". If they still press, you probably don't want to work there.

Some of you must have had terrible life experiences. I have been an HR Director for 15 years. We ask for salary, just like everything else. We don't scrutinze it. Our pay is our pay and we don't juggle it. We have a range - base it on experience and that is what we offer?. We try to make sure we can pay what the applicant is asking for, does that make sense?
Well, sure you need to make sure you can pay what the applicant is asking for... But most of us aren't sure what to ask for... Ask too high, and we're out. Ask too low, and we maybe have cost ourselves hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next 20 years. Remember that thread where some people thought talking about each others salaries was a FIREABLE offense? Rather hard for most people to figure out how much they are worth based on their experience in that kind of corporate environment. Salary.com helps a little, but experience is vastly different from person to person, so "average" salaries aren't that useful.

I'd like the COMPANY to start with a number, and not force an applicant to throw out the first number. The company has a much better idea of what they are willing to pay for the applicant's experience.

And none of this has anything to do with the applicant's current salary. The reason people are looking is because we don't think companies are good at paying their employees fairly. The only time market forces seem to come to bear is when you switch jobs. If you start a job with little experience, and get really good at it, very rarely will the company increase your pay drastically to match your experience. You almost always have to leave for your experience to be valued fairly.
Last edited by HomerJ on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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HomerJ
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

Meg77 wrote:Refusing to provide information on an application is not a negotiating technique, and refusing the question when you are asked directly in an interview is going to get you nowhere. I'm assuming you are being asked this question at an early interview by an HR rep because you left that information off of the application. Therefore it's safe to assume they are just trying to complete the application for processing rather than be hostile or use some hardball negotiating tactic on you.

Simply say "my total compensation is around XYZ (total comp includes medical benefits, 401k matching, bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc). Take the highest number you can honestly come up with and round up to the nearest $5,000. Then if you feel you need to, add any further information that seems relevant, such as how much more you are looking for or what range you feel is appropriate for this position, or that you've been promised a raise/bonus and would want that matched, or whatever.

Or just wait to see if they make you an offer and negotiate then. Once they want to hire you, you'll have more negotiating power. In the initial interview, you have zero, and if you seem hard to interview they will quickly extrapolate that you will be hard to work with.
Excellent advice Meg77.

I've been ranting a little about the unfairness of it all... but OP, you should answer the question with the highest number you can honestly come up, and add that of course you are looking to make more because you're so good at what you do... :)
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Clearly_Irrational
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Clearly_Irrational »

HomerJ wrote:Agreed.. I've been ranting a little about the unfairness of it all... but OP, you should answer the question with the highest number you can honestly come up, and add that of course that looking to make more because you're so good at what you do... :) Excellent advice Meg77.
For me personally I tend to just figure out what I want to make (and can rationally ask for given my current skills) before looking for a job then just keep interviewing till I find someone who agrees. Most places I interview with ask in the initial screening telephone interview what sort of pay you're looking for. I generally say something along the lines of "I'm looking for about $X, though it will depend on your total compensation package, things like 401k match, educational reimbursement, overtime and off hour work requirements etc." *shrug* It's working for me, though I'm sure a salesman somewhere is screaming that I'm doing it all wrong.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Marmot »

"Remember that thread where some people thought talking about each others salaries was a FIREABLE offense?"

That is an untrue statement in reality. Restricting such conversation is considered an unfair work practice by federal law.
this is just one recent ruling:
http://drewrysimmonsvornehm.wordpress.c ... -practice/

Read the 3rd paragraph.
"Additionally, under the NLRB order, the company also must rescind its policy of forbidding employee discussion of salaries on the basis that the NLRA protects the rights of workers to discuss their terms and conditions of employment, including wages"
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HomerJ
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

Marmot wrote:"Remember that thread where some people thought talking about each others salaries was a FIREABLE offense?"

That is an untrue statement in reality. Restricting such conversation is considered an unfair work practice by federal law.
this is just one recent ruling:
http://drewrysimmonsvornehm.wordpress.c ... -practice/

Read the 3rd paragraph.
"Additionally, under the NLRB order, the company also must rescind its policy of forbidding employee discussion of salaries on the basis that the NLRA protects the rights of workers to discuss their terms and conditions of employment, including wages"
True, but it's still fairly taboo in most organizations... It's not a open and transparent market where it's easy to judge what one is worth. The company knows what it is willing to pay for that position, and they really should lead with that, instead of making the applicant go first.
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HomerJ
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

Clearly_Irrational wrote:
HomerJ wrote:Agreed.. I've been ranting a little about the unfairness of it all... but OP, you should answer the question with the highest number you can honestly come up, and add that of course that looking to make more because you're so good at what you do... :) Excellent advice Meg77.
For me personally I tend to just figure out what I want to make (and can rationally ask for given my current skills) before looking for a job then just keep interviewing till I find someone who agrees. Most places I interview with ask in the initial screening telephone interview what sort of pay you're looking for. I generally say something along the lines of "I'm looking for about $X, though it will depend on your total compensation package, things like 401k match, educational reimbursement, overtime and off hour work requirements etc." *shrug* It's working for me, though I'm sure a salesman somewhere is screaming that I'm doing it all wrong.
Well sure, that's pretty much what I'm doing too, and it appears to be "working for me" as well, but who knows for sure? Maybe the company would have paid me $10k more if I had pressed them... That's $100k+ over the next 10 years. Maybe if I was better at negotiating, I'd be retiring an entire year earlier. That's not insignificant. But there's no point in me wondering about it now.
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ryuns
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by ryuns »

Marmot wrote:"Remember that thread where some people thought talking about each others salaries was a FIREABLE offense?"

That is an untrue statement in reality. Restricting such conversation is considered an unfair work practice by federal law.
this is just one recent ruling:
http://drewrysimmonsvornehm.wordpress.c ... -practice/

Read the 3rd paragraph.
"Additionally, under the NLRB order, the company also must rescind its policy of forbidding employee discussion of salaries on the basis that the NLRA protects the rights of workers to discuss their terms and conditions of employment, including wages"
Easy for us. Local newspaper files a FOIA each year to get every state employee's salary and posts it in a searchable database. No mysteries here!
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
leonard
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by leonard »

nimo956 wrote:The question of current salary seems to always come up in interviews for new positions. What is the best way to handle this? I usually work out a few responses beforehand, but HR people seem to just push and push and push until you cave. It is very frustrating. How many ways are there to say no? It would be helpful if someone could run through a mock conversation for me. I always strive to be cordial and never aggressive, but the constant pressure makes me want to simply say flat out that I'm not going to concede that information, so either move on or we can end the interview now.
If these are early interviews, I would simply say that Salary is only one aspect of compensation for the position - in addition to the opportunity to work for such a great company and in addition to the benefits. Discussing salary at this point would be premature - since you don't know the other components of their compensation and would put the focus only on one leg of the stool. However, I am sure we can determine at the end of the process a reasonable compensation level for the position.

If they keep asking - simply ask questions on the other aspects of compensation, benefits, bonuses and the opportunity - so that you can best determine what the salary should be.

Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by pre »

Very interesting discussion -- have folks logged into theworknumber.com to see if your salary history is already readily 'public'? I learned of the site a few years ago from the WSJ or some other publication. Many corporations/employers provide base salary information to this database, and I was surprised when I could see my employer-provided data from the past decade.

If the prospective employer were interested in an applicant, they can just look up your history with your SSN, rather than potentially play games with the candidate (i.e. encountering some of the sly responses noted in this thread). This also brings up an interesting dilemma, if the candidate provides a falsely inflated number, and the prospective employer discovers this from salary databases, I imagine it would be detrimental to the applicant's chances
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by leonard »

pre wrote:Very interesting discussion -- have folks logged into theworknumber.com to see if your salary history is already readily 'public'? I learned of the site a few years ago from the WSJ or some other publication. Many corporations/employers provide base salary information to this database, and I was surprised when I could see my employer-provided data from the past decade.

If the prospective employer were interested in an applicant, they can just look up your history with your SSN, rather than potentially play games with the candidate (i.e. encountering some of the sly responses noted in this thread). This also brings up an interesting dilemma, if the candidate provides a falsely inflated number, and the prospective employer discovers this from salary databases, I imagine it would be detrimental to the applicant's chances
How don't see how the Social Security administration could make your salary history public.

Personally, I would simply tell the employer I have no idea what "Theworknumber.com" OR ANY OTHER website posts about me. People can put whatever they want online true or not. Information consumer beware. If they want to believe false information, that is up to them.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by spin_echo »

I probably would ask them why they want to know.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by random_walker_77 »

For researching salaries, glassdoor.com can be quite helpful. In my industry, it appears to be reasonably accurate.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

leonard wrote:
nimo956 wrote:The question of current salary seems to always come up in interviews for new positions. What is the best way to handle this? I usually work out a few responses beforehand, but HR people seem to just push and push and push until you cave. It is very frustrating. How many ways are there to say no? It would be helpful if someone could run through a mock conversation for me. I always strive to be cordial and never aggressive, but the constant pressure makes me want to simply say flat out that I'm not going to concede that information, so either move on or we can end the interview now.
If these are early interviews, I would simply say that Salary is only one aspect of compensation for the position - in addition to the opportunity to work for such a great company and in addition to the benefits. Discussing salary at this point would be premature - since you don't know the other components of their compensation and would put the focus only on one leg of the stool. However, I am sure we can determine at the end of the process a reasonable compensation level for the position.

If they keep asking - simply ask questions on the other aspects of compensation, benefits, bonuses and the opportunity - so that you can best determine what the salary should be.

Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
At my megacorp, the recruiter is going to ask, and if you do not answer, you will probably not even get in the door. Using your current compensation to guess your job level is fraught, but it works surprisingly often. Most people will accept an interesting job that comes with a 10% or 20% raise, so that gives a recruiter a pretty good idea of the seniority of the people who would need to interview you.

(No matter how good you interview, if you need to be a senior engineer to make the amount you want, and you are only interviewed by junior ones, you will not get an offer. That seniority guess will matter.)

A very good answer, of course, is always, "I am looking for XX, and responsibilities commensurate with a senior position", if that is, in fact, accurate. Then when they ask what you make, answer without the drama.

The recruiter is probably rated on the number of hires, not the number of interviews, so they want a maximal chance of a yes, and drama may indicate that you are not going to do well in the job.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by TomatoTomahto »

^^^ what he said. Bingo.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by TRC »

"Why do you ask?"
"I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours?"
"Not enough! That's why I'm here"
"Don't take this personally, but I have a policy to never disclose to people what I make".
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by TigerNest »

leonard wrote: Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
While I agree with the sentiment, this is unnecessarily antagonistic, especially in an interview setting where they’re looking to figure out your personality and ‘fit.’

There are ways to deflect it more courteously: “My company asks us to not disclose or discuss our salaries, and I’d like to respect their wishes. I’m sure you understand.”
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by dm200 »

HomerJ wrote:
Marmot wrote:"Remember that thread where some people thought talking about each others salaries was a FIREABLE offense?"

That is an untrue statement in reality. Restricting such conversation is considered an unfair work practice by federal law.
this is just one recent ruling:
http://drewrysimmonsvornehm.wordpress.c ... -practice/

Read the 3rd paragraph.
"Additionally, under the NLRB order, the company also must rescind its policy of forbidding employee discussion of salaries on the basis that the NLRA protects the rights of workers to discuss their terms and conditions of employment, including wages"
True, but it's still fairly taboo in most organizations... It's not a open and transparent market where it's easy to judge what one is worth. The company knows what it is willing to pay for that position, and they really should lead with that, instead of making the applicant go first.
Upon graduating from college, many more decades ago than I like to think about, I was employed by IBM. There were quite a few of us hired at the same time - and we did discuss salaries, compare paychecks - as I recall this was, in part, figuring out deductions, making sure our pay was what our offer letters said, etc. We soon learned that both the policies of IBM, at the time anyway, and the "culture" severely frowned upon disclosing salaries. I carried that "culture" through my various employers over the years. The actual IBM "policy" (at that time, anyway) was that the company would not disclose (to other employees, for example) employee salaries and we could not disclose any other employee salary. While, technically, it was OK to disclose your own - the entire company "culture" was that you did not tell any other employee your salary.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by midareff »

It's been awhile but I used to tell them and then add the caveat that I would not consider making a change for 5 or 6% additional.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by leonard »

TigerNest wrote:
leonard wrote: Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
While I agree with the sentiment, this is unnecessarily antagonistic, especially in an interview setting where they’re looking to figure out your personality and ‘fit.’

There are ways to deflect it more courteously: “My company asks us to not disclose or discuss our salaries, and I’d like to respect their wishes. I’m sure you understand.”
yes - as I said - politely.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
leonard
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by leonard »

jackholloway wrote:
leonard wrote:
nimo956 wrote:The question of current salary seems to always come up in interviews for new positions. What is the best way to handle this? I usually work out a few responses beforehand, but HR people seem to just push and push and push until you cave. It is very frustrating. How many ways are there to say no? It would be helpful if someone could run through a mock conversation for me. I always strive to be cordial and never aggressive, but the constant pressure makes me want to simply say flat out that I'm not going to concede that information, so either move on or we can end the interview now.
If these are early interviews, I would simply say that Salary is only one aspect of compensation for the position - in addition to the opportunity to work for such a great company and in addition to the benefits. Discussing salary at this point would be premature - since you don't know the other components of their compensation and would put the focus only on one leg of the stool. However, I am sure we can determine at the end of the process a reasonable compensation level for the position.

If they keep asking - simply ask questions on the other aspects of compensation, benefits, bonuses and the opportunity - so that you can best determine what the salary should be.

Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
At my megacorp, the recruiter is going to ask, and if you do not answer, you will probably not even get in the door. Using your current compensation to guess your job level is fraught, but it works surprisingly often. Most people will accept an interesting job that comes with a 10% or 20% raise, so that gives a recruiter a pretty good idea of the seniority of the people who would need to interview you.

(No matter how good you interview, if you need to be a senior engineer to make the amount you want, and you are only interviewed by junior ones, you will not get an offer. That seniority guess will matter.)

A very good answer, of course, is always, "I am looking for XX, and responsibilities commensurate with a senior position", if that is, in fact, accurate. Then when they ask what you make, answer without the drama.

The recruiter is probably rated on the number of hires, not the number of interviews, so they want a maximal chance of a yes, and drama may indicate that you are not going to do well in the job.
Where precisely is the drama in what I proposed. This is negotiating. Also, keep in mind the company also doesn't want a push over. If you are not willing to look after your own interest in a salary negotiation - how likely are you to look after the company's interest in a business negotiation.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HornedToad »

Just convert it to desired salary range. That gives all the information the company needs for matching position without giving away as much of your negotiating power.

It still hurts somewhat in negotiation, but if you have an idea of what's reasonable, then it's not as bad.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Hayden »

I think this depends on the industry. In my industry, it is the norm to not only ask for this information but also to request copies of pay stubs to document the amount. This is not done to hurt the applicant (we understand that they are looking for more money), but rather to satisfy our own reporting requirements.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by JoMoney »

This question make me think about my own employers policy, which states that salary/compensation is sensitive proprietary information. They claim it could be used by competitors in bidding work and poaching talent. I'm wondering if this could be used as a plausible 'excuse' to only give a salary range on an interview.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

leonard wrote:
jackholloway wrote:
leonard wrote:
nimo956 wrote:The question of current salary seems to always come up in interviews for new positions. What is the best way to handle this? I usually work out a few responses beforehand, but HR people seem to just push and push and push until you cave. It is very frustrating. How many ways are there to say no? It would be helpful if someone could run through a mock conversation for me. I always strive to be cordial and never aggressive, but the constant pressure makes me want to simply say flat out that I'm not going to concede that information, so either move on or we can end the interview now.
If these are early interviews, I would simply say that Salary is only one aspect of compensation for the position - in addition to the opportunity to work for such a great company and in addition to the benefits. Discussing salary at this point would be premature - since you don't know the other components of their compensation and would put the focus only on one leg of the stool. However, I am sure we can determine at the end of the process a reasonable compensation level for the position.

If they keep asking - simply ask questions on the other aspects of compensation, benefits, bonuses and the opportunity - so that you can best determine what the salary should be.

Another good response: "What is the range and average salary for this type of position in your organization". If they refuse to answer - you can politely indicate the hypocrisy of such a question.
At my megacorp, the recruiter is going to ask, and if you do not answer, you will probably not even get in the door. Using your current compensation to guess your job level is fraught, but it works surprisingly often. Most people will accept an interesting job that comes with a 10% or 20% raise, so that gives a recruiter a pretty good idea of the seniority of the people who would need to interview you.

(No matter how good you interview, if you need to be a senior engineer to make the amount you want, and you are only interviewed by junior ones, you will not get an offer. That seniority guess will matter.)

A very good answer, of course, is always, "I am looking for XX, and responsibilities commensurate with a senior position", if that is, in fact, accurate. Then when they ask what you make, answer without the drama.

The recruiter is probably rated on the number of hires, not the number of interviews, so they want a maximal chance of a yes, and drama may indicate that you are not going to do well in the job.
Where precisely is the drama in what I proposed. This is negotiating. Also, keep in mind the company also doesn't want a push over. If you are not willing to look after your own interest in a salary negotiation - how likely are you to look after the company's interest in a business negotiation.
I did not see any point where you actually told the recruiter what you were presently earning. You suggested continuing to ask for compensation details, and then politely indicating the hypocrisy of not answering the return question.

Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. You have no business reason to know theirs. Insisting that they are hypocrites for wanting the information they use to place you, and that they are allowed to ask seems like drama to me.

Negotiating is fine and well - of course they expect that, but there is a fine line between confident and stubborn.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Professor Emeritus »

JoMoney wrote:This question make me think about my own employers policy, which states that salary/compensation is sensitive proprietary information. They claim it could be used by competitors in bidding work and poaching talent. I'm wondering if this could be used as a plausible 'excuse' to only give a salary range on an interview.

As Abe Lincoln said "you can call a tail a leg, but it doesn't make it one". Do they prohibit you from applying for loans etc? Any permitted disclosures destroys any claim of proprietary information. You cant fake a "company secret" policy
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Professor Emeritus »

jackholloway wrote: Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
They can't figure out what you are worth to the company?
Is that the business reason?

I once worked a bank case where the bank was stealing from the customers. They had a clear " business reason" to do so. etc etc Lo-Balling is certainly a business reason.
I've bought leather in Florence, Gold in Istanbul and rugs in Cairo. You want to do business, you make an offer. You dont ask how much money they have in their pocket.

Do you ask a lawyer or a doctor or an Engineer what they were paid by their last client?
NO. they quote you a fee and you decide whether you want to do the deal.

It is certainly fair and I have asked and been asked "what would it take to get you to work here? Anything else smacks of used car salesmanship.
Last edited by Professor Emeritus on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by tj »

f your reason for not wanting to answer is that you find your current salary to be extremely low and are afraid that new company will lowball you if they know what it is
I have the opposite problems. Wages are down (and have been the past few years) so I am never going to make what I was making in my last job. :-/
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by ThatGuy »

jackholloway wrote:Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .
You're kidding, right? That's not a business reason. In large companies, HR already has the information on what standard industry pay is for xyz position. In small companies, the owner already knows what they can afford to pay.
Work is the curse of the drinking class - Oscar Wilde
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Greg17 »

Hayden wrote:I think this depends on the industry. In my industry, it is the norm to not only ask for this information but also to request copies of pay stubs to document the amount. This is not done to hurt the applicant (we understand that they are looking for more money), but rather to satisfy our own reporting requirements.
Which industry is this?
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

ThatGuy wrote:
jackholloway wrote:Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .
You're kidding, right? That's not a business reason. In large companies, HR already has the information on what standard industry pay is for xyz position. In small companies, the owner already knows what they can afford to pay.
In brief, if someone who gates the hiring thinks they need to know, and you refuse to provide the information they think they need, the interview is over. EEOC is pretty clear about what can be asked, and salary is on the list.

One reason they might believe they need to know is validation of resume claims. Within any candidate cohort, some resumes lie and some references are faked. Good candidates all have anomalies in their hiring info, so gathering as many signals as possible disambiguates the scruffy data from the misleading, partially by telling you where to dig.

If you claim to be a senior software engineer in the Bay Area, but your salary is 78k a year, something is amiss. I would want the recruiter to have tracked that down. If you claim to have had eight direct reports, but are getting paid like an entry level engineer, something is inconsistent.

I have no idea what you are worth to and my team. I know what a competent SSE is worth, and I will have signals from your resume, transcripts if relevant, former employer, and former job title about whether you are one. Former salary is another signal about former responsibilities.

Further, based on the stats I have seen, offering someone substantially less than they are now making almost never works out well.

If you choose not to provide the information at the time asked, you are taking a risk. You may succeed, but do not be surprised if the person who is asking at least believes they have need of it.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

Professor Emeritus wrote:
jackholloway wrote: Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
They can't figure out what you are worth to the company?
Is that the business reason? .
Try reading my clarifying post. Matching level and verifying that the position will be attractive enough to be worth spending perhaps 5k on interviewing time alone seems like a valid business need.

It seems like the best outcome is for us to agree to disagree at this point.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by 2comma »

From some book on how to interview, I just stated that I was more interested in the opportunity and would not want salary to stand in the way, which was true. I don't think I was ever asked what I made but I haven't interviewed for over 25 years.

I'm sorry - rant follows:
Some of you must have had terrible life experiences. I have been an HR Director for 15 years. We ask for salary, just like everything else. We don't scrutinze it. Our pay is our pay and we don't juggle it. We have a range - base it on experience and that is what we offer?. We try to make sure we can pay what the applicant is asking for, does that make sense?
Hum, if you don't scrutinize it and your pay is your pay then why ask? Why not just tell an interviewee the salary range and see if that is something acceptable to them. If not, your done! The only reason I can think of for an employer wanting to know what your current salary is would be to offer them less; assuming you have disclosed your salary range in order to determine if there is a good fit.

Someone mentioned loyalty. After my first professional employer went through several rounds of layoffs - they lied that each was the last, yes they new and I knew, I left after the third round. My second employer merged and everyone was told it's going to be the same. I left before the merger, layoffs followed. The company I just retired from cut every benefit possible over the 25 years I was there and now they are outsourcing. Terrible life experiences? No, I was always glad I had a job and I probably put in 50 hours a week the whole time I worked because I liked what I was doing. Yes, businesses have to remain profitable to stay in existence and my company did a reasonable job at replacing benefits. Trust and loyalty? Not so much anymore, I'd jump ship if anyone offered something better to me. As they say, it's a good business decision. A simple "I don't know or I'm not allowed to say" from management could have gone a long way to alter these life experiences. BTW, on the last application I signed it said I can expect to have a job (not necessarily the same job) if I do good work except in the event of extreme financial circumstances. Being profitable but not meeting their 10% goal was considered extreme financial conditions and the first ever layoff followed, again I was safe. I think the car salesman analogy may just be the correct one in this case.

Again sorry, rant off.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by ThatGuy »

jackholloway wrote:In brief, if someone who gates the hiring thinks they need to know, and you refuse to provide the information they think they need, the interview is over. EEOC is pretty clear about what can be asked, and salary is on the list.
No contention on this point. An interview can be not scheduled, or ended, for any whatsoever.
jackholloway wrote:One reason they might believe they need to know is validation of resume claims. Within any candidate cohort, some resumes lie and some references are faked. Good candidates all have anomalies in their hiring info, so gathering as many signals as possible disambiguates the scruffy data from the misleading, partially by telling you where to dig.

If you claim to be a senior software engineer in the Bay Area, but your salary is 78k a year, something is amiss. I would want the recruiter to have tracked that down. If you claim to have had eight direct reports, but are getting paid like an entry level engineer, something is inconsistent.
Or they worked at an early stage start-up. Besides, if someone went to the trouble of fabricating companies and/or titles, don't you think they'd lie about their salary when asked? This sounds like a crude & ineffectual filter.

Does the candidate have the skills you need listed on paper? Can't you verify those through the technical portion of the interview? Didn't you have other team members interview the candidate? With multiple people interviewing, you can almost always pick up if someone won't play well with others.

It comes down to you can't claim that the company has a business reason to ask about compensation, but that the interviewee does not have a business reason for asking for pay range.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Atilla »

It was a long time ago, but I just quoted my salary as 20% above what I was really getting and said I had to make more than that to switch. They beat it by an additional 20%, so 40% raise the last time I switched jobs.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

ThatGuy wrote:
jackholloway wrote:In brief, if someone who gates the hiring thinks they need to know, and you refuse to provide the information they think they need, the interview is over. EEOC is pretty clear about what can be asked, and salary is on the list.
No contention on this point. An interview can be not scheduled, or ended, for any whatsoever.
jackholloway wrote:One reason they might believe they need to know is validation of resume claims. Within any candidate cohort, some resumes lie and some references are faked. Good candidates all have anomalies in their hiring info, so gathering as many signals as possible disambiguates the scruffy data from the misleading, partially by telling you where to dig.

If you claim to be a senior software engineer in the Bay Area, but your salary is 78k a year, something is amiss. I would want the recruiter to have tracked that down. If you claim to have had eight direct reports, but are getting paid like an entry level engineer, something is inconsistent.
Or they worked at an early stage start-up. Besides, if someone went to the trouble of fabricating companies and/or titles, don't you think they'd lie about their salary when asked? This sounds like a crude & ineffectual filter.
Agreed. The bread and butter questions for the recruiter are really desired salary range, responsibilities, knowledge of company overall, willingness to relocate, and employment history. I rarely see a complete fabrication, usually just inconsistency, sometimes important, sometimes not. This is a crude filter, but one that can be verified and that occasionally tells the recruiter where to dig.

In the case of the early phase startup, little digging is required to get a consistent story.

Does the candidate have the skills you need listed on paper? Can't you verify those through the technical portion of the interview? Didn't you have other team members interview the candidate? With multiple people interviewing, you can almost always pick up if someone won't play well with others.
I see people who treat the recruiter like dirt, and the people they interview with like gods. This often maps to treating their boss well, and their coworkers and underlings poorly. Again, most do not.

Technical skills come with talking to the interview panel, but verifying the employment history and doing reference checks is the recruiters job.

The scenario Leonard presented is a candidate who flat out refuses to reveal salary history after several requests, then responds to the clarification request with pointing out the hypocrisy of asking for their salary while not telling the candidate what the recruiter makes. No law against it, but I characterized the hypocrisy accusation as drama, and still do.

Bargain hard, but remember you will be working with this person. They may be scheduling interviews for you soon.

It comes down to you can't claim that the company has a business reason to ask about compensation, but that the interviewee does not have a business reason for asking for pay range.
You can ask, and should, but the question to me is what you do with the typically evasive answer I see all over tech companies. You often get "we are competitive with the range on glass door". At least you can then present the glass door number with a bump as an opening bid. I found Victoria to be right that naming my target number served me well.

To be clear, I am arguing here that a recruiter can legitimately feel they have a need for salary history, and that once you do your best to frame, not answering may have a cost. It is not usually optimal to get on a high horse, but neither is it worth dwelling on unless you have an anomaly to work around.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by Professor Emeritus »

jackholloway wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:
jackholloway wrote: Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
They can't figure out what you are worth to the company?
Is that the business reason? .
Try reading my clarifying post. Matching level and verifying that the position will be attractive enough to be worth spending perhaps 5k on interviewing time alone seems like a valid business need.

It seems like the best outcome is for us to agree to disagree at this point.
True story , one of my students

"my salary reflected a job where I was caring for a dying child. I've buried the child. I'm expecting to be paid market rates for my work. Can we move on?

Wouldn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Salary history and salary gap questions have a disproportionately negative effect on women. And then people wonder why women are under represented.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by jackholloway »

Professor Emeritus wrote:
jackholloway wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:
jackholloway wrote: Since they are trying to place you at their company, they have a business reason to want to know your salary. .

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
They can't figure out what you are worth to the company?
Is that the business reason? .
Try reading my clarifying post. Matching level and verifying that the position will be attractive enough to be worth spending perhaps 5k on interviewing time alone seems like a valid business need.

It seems like the best outcome is for us to agree to disagree at this point.
True story , one of my students

"my salary reflected a job where I was caring for a dying child. I've buried the child. I'm expecting to be paid market rates for my work. Can we move on?

Wouldn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Salary history and salary gap questions have a disproportionately negative effect on women. And then people wonder why women are under represented.
Edit: I still suspect our personal best outcome is to agree to disagree while we are still willing to swerve, but that is a mutual decision

For what it is worth, I have taught many interviewers what is in the EEOC guidelines, driven diversity efforts, and given many interviews myself. I review the guidelines before each training session, and usually have someone from HR sit in on that section. Resume and salary discrepancies are not something an engineer considers at my current employer, as that is the domain of HR and hiring.

My current position, and guidance for the OP who wanted to know what to do when the question comes up:
  • If the company asks you for your salary history, no law requires you to reveal it, but no law protects you if you do not
  • If you choose not to specify, the hiring process may end there, or they may just move on to the next item - how that conversation influences the outcome depends a lot on how you present the refusal
  • It is very difficult to "politely point out the hypocrisy" of anything - if you go down that road, you are not going to get a positive outcome
  • There are reasons why they might want that history, which include picking a salary they think you will accept and making sure you are a fit for the position they have - not all of those are in your interest, and you should include anchoring in your strategy
  • How you treat the person asking will reflect on you, so regardless of your strategy, I would not harangue the recruiter - they may not be in control of that policy and likely cannot change it
  • If you do not think salary history is an appropriate line of questioning for a recruiter, lobby for EEOC changes, as they they are applied across the board to all US employers
  • Accusing someone of sexism is not a way to increase their warm fuzzies towards potential candidates - it is more likely to make them unconsciously view candidates of that category as a risk that they need to treat carefully, and that is usually death for a candidate
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by White Coat Investor »

nimo956 wrote:The question of current salary seems to always come up in interviews for new positions. What is the best way to handle this? I usually work out a few responses beforehand, but HR people seem to just push and push and push until you cave. It is very frustrating. How many ways are there to say no? It would be helpful if someone could run through a mock conversation for me. I always strive to be cordial and never aggressive, but the constant pressure makes me want to simply say flat out that I'm not going to concede that information, so either move on or we can end the interview now.
Why do people think that's okay to ask? I'd probably return that question with one of my own. How much did you pay the last guy who held this position?
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by btenny »

I am on old guy but I did lots of interviewing and hiring back when and looked for and got a few jobs over my career. I always found that salary had to be divulged pretty early and also DESIRED SALARY should also be divulged pretty early in the process. That way all parties knew what was history and what was needed (or close to it) to complete the hire. Remember that even if the hiring manager loves you he/she still has to go convince the big boss and HR that you are worth that big new salary you are asking for......

When I asked I usually answered something like this " I am making $XXX thousand per year plus bennies currently" BUT " I am not willing to move to a new position with lots of new responsibilities for less than $YYY." Then all parties are aware what the situation is and around what it takes to hire you. And I always made sure when I asked for $YYY dollars that I did research about a good salary and maybe a little over what I viewed as a good salary for the desired position. Then the hiring company was prepared to negotiate or not. And remember that ALMOST ALL OF LIFE ADVENTURES includes a lot of negotiation.....

Good luck and Have Fun.....
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by TomatoTomahto »

EmergDoc wrote: How much did you pay the last guy who held this position?
You mean the guy they just fired?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by nimo956 »

Just to give people an update, I've had two interviews with very divergent experiences. In the first one, I was asked for my salary history and pressed until I gave it. The HR rep seemed a bit disorganized. He hadn't read my cover letter or resume, and just had me basically explain it to him. He didn't really speak or have any follow-up questions for me. This definitely felt like a company that was trying to hire someone for as cheaply as possible.

The other interview felt completely different. Not only did they not ask for my salary history, but they told me what they were looking to pay for the position and asked if that was acceptable to me. This interviewer was much more prepared. We had an engaging conversation about the company and opportunity, and he was ready with follow-up questions. It seems like a much better place to work than the first company.

Thanks for everyone's help by the way. Hearing other's people's experience is very useful.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by LadyGeek »

jackholloway wrote:Edit: I still suspect our personal best outcome is to agree to disagree while we are still willing to swerve, but that is a mutual decision
I support that decision.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by new2bogle »

HomerJ wrote:
Greg17 wrote:I would say the quickest easiest way to respond with giving them the information they are looking for, but not giving away any information you don't want to, is a response like this
" To answer your salary request, I'm only targeting position in the 80-90k range. "
That's a decent answer. But know that they will offer you $80k

For my very first full time job I asked for a salary "in the 90s". They came back with exactly 90k.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by new2bogle »

JoMoney wrote:This question make me think about my own employers policy, which states that salary/compensation is sensitive proprietary information. They claim it could be used by competitors in bidding work and poaching talent. I'm wondering if this could be used as a plausible 'excuse' to only give a salary range on an interview.
I have done exactly this thing before: "My HR department has a policy of employees not revealing their salary and I do not want to run afoul of that." Worked nicely, and then you can move on to what you expect an offer to be around.
Last edited by new2bogle on Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by LadyGeek »

I was at a seminar where a head-hunter recruiter was asked that question ("Do you disclose your salary?"). The answer was unequivocally clear - yes.

Why? Both parties understand company loyalty, challenges, doing a good job, and all that. However, the bottom line is that you are there to make money. The company has a number in mind, you have a number in mind. If you don't come to an agreement, it's basically a waste of both party's time.

You don't need to give the exact number, but it should be ballpark. They know what the going rate is, so don't attempt to give them something unrealistic.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
EmergDoc wrote: How much did you pay the last guy who held this position?
You mean the guy they just fired?
No, the guy who just quit because he wasn't getting paid enough :)
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HomerJ »

LadyGeek wrote:Why? Both parties understand company loyalty, challenges, doing a good job, and all that. However, the bottom line is that you are there to make money. The company has a number in mind, you have a number in mind. If you don't come to an agreement, it's basically a waste of both party's time.
I think we all agree with that... Getting a ballpark figure out there pretty quick is important so we don't waste anyone's time. My problem is HR asking about my CURRENT salary, which is not the number I have in mind. My future salary is what we should be discussing, and I don't want to give the other side in a very important negotiation any information that may let them give me a lower offer.

But that said, I agree with most people here that one should just be reasonable, give them what they want, but also mention and stress what you're looking for, and try to de-emphasize your current salary.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by HornedToad »

Salary requirements are MUCH more relevant than salary history and meet all the filtering/time wasting criteria. Companies ask salary history because it's part of their checklist and to see what other companies are paying you so they can offer ~20-30% more. They won't ever offer 60-100% more if they know your current salary.
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Re: How to respond to request for current salary in an inter

Post by yosef »

I think everyone acknowledges that it's important to ensure that the parties are not wasting one another's time. But why do people feel it's ok to ask your current salary to determine that? Doesn't the question "What is your target salary?" accomplish the same goal? To the poster who said they were in HR in particular, it seems extremely naive to assume that companies do not take a candidate's current salary into account when making offers. In my view, how much you like the company/position you're interviewing for has to play a large part in deciding whether or not you'll "risk" answering this question. Contrary to what many have said, I do think it's possible to respectfully dodge it. In my experience in the tech industry, the HR person is mostly there to handle paperwork, and doesn't make recommendations on who should and should not be hired anyway.
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