Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

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smpatel
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Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by smpatel »

I have been thinking about this for quite some time. Kids - two boys (Middle School).
Since, I have learned a lot from the forum which I wish I had learned before, I would like to show my kids how the simplicity rules in many aspects of investing and finance. Few challenges and ways are as under-
* I could point them to specific threads, as they could get lost in other topics and we have to balance between lurking vs learning.
* There are some discussions/opinions about adult topics which I would like to avoid - marriage, politics etc. not sure how to do it except pointing to specific threads.
* The administrators of bogleheads are very effective in taking out offensive content hence I feel good about the civility of the content compared to other blog sites.
* Some topics are not as simple and could lead to boredom for them (blah blah world).

Has anyone done this? If so, how did you go about it?

thanks,
fcox85
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by fcox85 »

Maybe better to start them off by pointing them to some of the recommended books on this site? Then point them toward the site as a follow-up.
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by nisiprius »

It's an interesting idea. Why not?

I wouldn't push or guide too directively, don't make it into a lesson. What you're hoping for is just "exposure," some kind of awareness that it is there, some kind of awareness that there are things called index funds and that some people like them. And that maybe sometime in the future when they have their first job and are trying to figure out the 401(k), it will occur to them that Bogleheads is there.

Wikipedia has or used to have a rule, more honored in the breach than the observance, "don't bite the newbies." I'd be just a little concerned about the possibility of newbies getting bitten in this forum. The forum will be MUCH more interesting to them if they post, but warn them to be thick-skinned and not to give up if some of the posts are brushoffs--"this was discussed just recently, search the forum."

They'll probably find it boring. I gave my currently-teen-aged grandson a $50 series EE savings bond, a $50 series I savings bond, and a stock certificate for one share of stock in Target Corp. about five years ago, and he has not asked me ONE question about ANY of them EVER. The only thing I ever hear about it is my daughter griping, because apparently they now have to do something or other on his taxes because of the quarterly dividend payments of $0.43.
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smpatel
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by smpatel »

fcox85 wrote:Maybe better to start them off by pointing them to some of the recommended books on this site? Then point them toward the site as a follow-up.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will consider this. I would like them to start hearing about simple choices and then pick each one of them and dive deeper at their own pace/choice. I feel like this powerful well managed voice is a boon and free with variety of topics (college, investing, personal finance etc.).
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

The greatest gift you can give your kids besides the books - the pro's and con's of using a credit card. It can be a tool or it can place the shackles of bondage on you if you don't manage it well. Credit - good credit in particular is vital to getting ahead in life. No one likes a bad credit - future employer, future mortage lender. Show them how to balance a checkbook - oh, I know why balance a checkbook if you have things like Quicken or Mint.com - two fold, one it keeps your mind sharp and two, one should always know what is going on - your inflows and outflows, putting pen to paper makes it very real.
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The Wizard
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by The Wizard »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:...Show them how to balance a checkbook - oh, I know why balance a checkbook if you have things like Quicken or Mint.com - two fold, one it keeps your mind sharp and two, one should always know what is going on - your inflows and outflows, putting pen to paper makes it very real.
Very few people balance checkbooks anymore; it's so last century.
Same as how mony folks wear a wristwatch less frequently and don't have landline phones anymore.
Best not to annoy the younger set by pushing archaic methodologies on them or they might ignore the IMPORTANT stuff as well...
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livesoft
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by livesoft »

I can't imagine kids being interested or benefitting from anything on this site that a parent could not convey more directly. So my answer is NO.

I think I have taught my kids what they should be doing. One thing that a parent can do is comment on every "financial" commercial seen while watching TV together. As in, "I would never ever send my money to those guys." Or "You can't believe everything they tell you." Or "What a rip-off! I would not use Edward Lynch for anything, even if I wanted to just burn my money."

Finally, you can tell them, "If you ever need to save or invest money, please come talk to me first. I can help make sure you don't get ripped off."
Last edited by livesoft on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Wizard
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by The Wizard »

I tend to agree with Lifesoft in that the kids need to be RECEPTIVE to financial concepts before it will do any good.
My 28 yo son will be home in a cpl wks and I'll do a bit of probing to see how he's doing with retirement savings, and will take it from there...
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by bottlecap »

I think you ought to be teaching them yourself, a little bit at a time. That will give you a feel whne they are ready and interested in learning about these things themselves.

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JamesSFO
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by JamesSFO »

My guess is that discussing topics from this board with your kids and applying it to your/their lives would be a more valuable exercise for 11-13 yros. While it is never too young, I am not sure most 11-13 yros would be all that engaged with the board.

That said, talking to them about savings, college expenses, college planning, and involving them would be interesting.

Another potential exercise depending on your financial means is setting up a chunk of money to co-invest with them (in your account say, but segregated for easy tracking), e.g. $500 you invest and $500 they invest and you track the accounts and discuss decision making. Then at some juncture, say age 18 give them to money for whatever they want to do.
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by barnaclebob »

smpatel wrote: There are some discussions/opinions about adult topics which I would like to avoid - marriage, politics etc. not sure how to do it except pointing to specific threads.
I don't think you should be worried about what your kids could see on this website if they are in middle school. They see much worse elsewhere.
reggiesimpson
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by reggiesimpson »

I think the old saying "You can lead a horse to water.............etc" applies here.
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

The Wizard wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:...Show them how to balance a checkbook - oh, I know why balance a checkbook if you have things like Quicken or Mint.com - two fold, one it keeps your mind sharp and two, one should always know what is going on - your inflows and outflows, putting pen to paper makes it very real.
Very few people balance checkbooks anymore; it's so last century.
Same as how mony folks wear a wristwatch less frequently and don't have landline phones anymore.
Best not to annoy the younger set by pushing archaic methodologies on them or they might ignore the IMPORTANT stuff as well...
So is long division, multiplication, addition and subtraction - so last century. Any wonder why many folks can not put two and two together? Logical thinking? - what's that? Common sense? Huh??? :oops:
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denovo
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by denovo »

I think for kids, it's more important to teach them the value of money ( something some adults forget too!) I.e. giving them an allowance and/or making them do chores and letting them use that money to buy "stuff" so they understand the importance of being frugal. I think that would be appropriate for a 12 year old.
Last edited by denovo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

denovo wrote:I think for kids, it's more important to teach them the value of money ( something some adults forgot too!) I.e. giving them an allowance and/or making them do chores and letting them use that money to buy "stuff" so they understand the importance of being dilligent. I think that would be appropriator for a 12 year old.
+1 - My lawn needs to be raked, when can I expect your kids? The rate is $1 per bag. :mrgreen:
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Quickfoot
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Quickfoot »

I think teaching general financial skills is better than putting them on the forum. My 6 year old is an avid saver / investor and has a higher net worth than my 40 year old ex-wife (her mom), she understands market fluctuation, bonds, stocks, emergency fund, etc. Our kids do get allowance and there are tasks they can occasionally perform to earn extra money (six year old raked leaves in the rain with me for an hour for $2), we also dock them money for bad behavior.

We break their allowance down into 3 buckets:

#1 Investment money, this money is put in the market for at least 5 years, we match 50% of what they put in, minimum of 50% equity allocation because I *want* it to flucuate.
#2 Savings money, CD by the bank of parents, 15% interest paid, 1 year term
#3 Money available for spending, must maintain a minimum of $20, extra money can be put into bucket #2 or bucket #1 (so far they've always picked bucket #1)

They must put a minimum of 25% of their money in each bucket. Two of the three kids are putting 50% into investment, 25% into savings and spending 25%, the third one is spending 50%, investing 25% and saving 25%. Our goal is to teach the children financial responsibility, to save money but also that it's OK to spend as well.

Buckets #1 and #2 are filled before #3 so if they get docked for bad behavior they may not have any spending money for the month. They also get "bank" statements every month that shows them the current value of their investments, their savings account, and the amount they are allowed to spend and we review them together.

Occasionally we'll require them to split costs with us, for example covering half the cost of going to an indoor playground. It isn't because we can't afford to pay but because we want them to gain a strong understanding of intelligently managing their money so they don't have to start learning how to do it when they are an adult.

Both our 6 year old and our 7 year old invested the vast majority of money they received from relatives for their birthday's this year. It's pretty neat to see them get genuinely excited about saving / investing money. 6 year old is saving her investment money to buy a car at 16 or a house after college (also neat to see them planning ahead).
Last edited by Quickfoot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
denovo
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by denovo »

Quickfoot wrote:I
#2 Savings money, CD by the bank of parents, 15% interest paid, 1 year term
I am in. Where can I sign up?
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3504PIR
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by 3504PIR »

Quickfoot wrote:I think teaching general financial skills is better than putting them on the forum. My 6 year old is an avid saver / investor and has a higher net worth than my 40 year old ex-wife (her mom), she understands market fluctuation, bonds, stocks, emergency fund, etc. Our kids do get allowance and there are tasks they can occasionally perform to earn extra money (six year old raked leaves in the rain with me for an hour for $2), we also dock them money for bad behavior.

We break their allowance down into 3 buckets:

#1 Investment money, this money is put in the market for at least 5 years, we match 50% of what they put in, minimum of 50% equity allocation because I *want* it to flucuate.
#2 Savings money, CD by the bank of parents, 15% interest paid, 1 year term
#3 Money available for spending, must maintain a minimum of $20, extra money can be put into bucket #2 or bucket #1 (so far they've always picked bucket #1)

They must put a minimum of 25% of their money in each bucket. Two of the three kids are putting 50% into investment, 25% into savings and spending 25%, the third one is spending 50%, investing 25% and saving 25%. Our goal is to teach the children financial responsibility, to save money but also that it's OK to spend as well.

Buckets #1 and #2 are filled before #3 so if they get docked for bad behavior they may not have any spending money for the month. They also get "bank" statements every month that shows them the current value of their investments, their savings account, and the amount they are allowed to spend and we review them together.

Occasionally we'll require them to split costs with us, for example covering half the cost of going to an indoor playground. It isn't because we can't afford to pay but because we want them to gain a strong understanding of intelligently managing their money so they don't have to start learning how to do it when they are an adult.

Both our 6 year old and our 7 year old invested the vast majority of money they received from relatives for their birthday's this year. It's pretty neat to see them get genuinely excited about saving / investing money. 6 year old is saving her investment money to buy a car at 16 or a house after college (also neat to see them planning ahead).
This is excellent advice and would recommend OP do something similar. Just curious, how do you execute #1, custodial account?

To the original question, I agree with livesoft. Don't direct them here, at least until they are adults.
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runner9
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by runner9 »

Not directly on topic, but I balance every account (checking, savings, credit card, etc) every month.
sscritic
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by sscritic »

I also say no, although if you want to have some fun, ask them to read some threads on RMDs and annuities or incorrect rollovers and RMDs. Then have them explain what they have read to you.

Once they can explain these and other topics such as tax loss harvesting, a RBD®, and file and suspend, let them move on to what to do with an old engagement ring after they get dumped.
Quickfoot
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Quickfoot »

I am in. Where can I sign up?
I'd love that too, decided to do a fairly high interest rate though so that they can see a benefit to saving. Right now their balances are low, in the future I might limit the amount they can have in bucket #2 or decrease interest rate as their balance grows and they get older. They only get $20 a month allowance so even if they invested / saved 100% (which they can't do) it isn't going to hurt me for a long time.
Just curious, how do you execute #1, custodial account?
Yep, each of them have a savings account which is where their spending money goes and a custodial account for investing, cd money is virtual and we'll just pay it out of our own account should they decide not to re-up. The custodial account does impact financial aid for college but right now their balances are pretty low and it's the best option because I want them to have and feel ownership over "their" money. I'd also say there's near 100% chance they'll spend at least most of either on a car or starting their own business prior to college.

They also have 529 plans that we contribute to and starting this year grand parents are doing 529 contributions instead of Christmas presents.
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by denovo »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
denovo wrote:I think for kids, it's more important to teach them the value of money ( something some adults forgot too!) I.e. giving them an allowance and/or making them do chores and letting them use that money to buy "stuff" so they understand the importance of being dilligent. I think that would be appropriator for a 12 year old.
+1 - My lawn needs to be raked, when can I expect your kids? The rate is $1 per bag. :mrgreen:
They are in. Of course, you were ambiguous on what type of bag, so I am going with the mini-ziploc bags. Ambiguity goes against the person who drafted the contract (you) Lawyered.

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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by hoopy »

My mother did a few things to teach me real world money-handling skills.

- When I was about 13 I started writing cheques to pay our bills. My mother would review and sign them, then I would mail them. After a few months of this, she just signed them.

- I started running finance-related errands for her. i.e. Go to the bank when she needed to withdraw cash, etc. Our local bank would let me cash her cheques, though they did call home a couple of times when she had slightly larger amounts to withdraw, to verify the transaction.

- I started sitting in on her meetings with her accountant at some point as well.

In hindsight, I really appreciate how much I learned through doing this. When I moved away to go to university I didn't really have to learn many of these skills, already had them. Also, I internalized "adult" handling of finances, so was reasonably responsible with my own money. It amazed me how many of my peers at the time didn't understand what a 20% interest rate on a credit card meant.

Writing cheques to pay bills probably isn't viable any more, but perhaps let them handle online bill-payments (in your presence) if they are interested?
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Re: Should I guide my kids to bogleheads.org NOW

Post by Easy Rhino »

They in middle school for pete's sake. bogleheads doesn't really hit it's prime demographic until you get around 50 or 60 years old . Keep them far away. :beer

I like quickfoot's general idea. get them used to personal money management and the concept of saving in general.

If they've got regular personal finance down, and want to get them started in investing. Stick with the basics like 'what's a stock'. In fact, when i was 12-14 my Dad bought me a handful of shares of a stock in lieu of a real present for my birthday (which I had to go to the library and research and pick myself). I still have the stock, which is pretty fun. it also helped that it was stock in Nike, so if he had gotten me more shares, we'd be gazillionaires by now.

don't curse at the financial ads on TV. The neighbor kids will just think you're crazy and it's not any different than cursing at football teams or politicians.

My daughter's only 1, but she loves taking credit cards out of my wallet. So I'm sure I'll have a lot of work to do soon. :oops:
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