Giving notice...how much time?

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Dave C.
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Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Dave C. »

I am planning to begin my early retirement in roughly 5 months. I will be 62. I work in sales for an international biopharmaceutical company. My position is stable and with potential new products we will be more likely in the hiring process than staff reduction mode over the next 12-24 months.
The company asks for 6-months notice. I would like to give notice after the first of the year, and work another 60-70 days. Working past January 1st should safeguard a bonus, otherwise I see no financial issues. I am a sales guy in a company with hundreds of sales people.

How much notice have others on this site given?
Are there pros and cons on more or less time?
I am in good standing, but why 6 months?
What about 30-days? (I would think HR could do the paperwork in 30 minutes)

The company has been good to me and I have been a top producer.....but it is after all a money making machine.
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frugaltype
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by frugaltype »

The required notice is generally spelled out in paperwork upon hiring. I've never heard of anything beyond two weeks, although two weeks leaves projects in the lurch. Six months sounds incredibly long. I would guess if you give notice before January 1st you can kiss your bonus goodbye.
123
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by 123 »

Two weeks notice should be sufficient. If you give too much notice they won't have any incentive to "bargain" with you to stay longer and/or consult.
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JamesSFO
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by JamesSFO »

Two weeks seems to be generally accepted practice in many jobs in the US, you mention a longer period being common at your company, be sensitive to your company's specific practices. When I left a fairly senior position I provided 30 days notice, I think it ended up being too long and 2 weeks might have been better.

Keep in mind that your company generally need not honor your notice period and can march you out the door in most states/situations because of termination at will.
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GerryL
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by GerryL »

I notified my boss almost a year ago that I plan to retire in May ... 2015. Of course, I could change my mind at any time. Retire earlier. Decide to stay longer. But psychologically I am preparing to leave in 2015, and my colleagues know that. Fortunately, I'm in a situation where I'm not afraid to make those plans known and my work group will have plenty of time to plan for upcoming changes.
SpecialK22
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by SpecialK22 »

I think it depends largely on the position. Like others have mentioned, I've always considered two weeks notice to be the minimum and generally accepted norm for most jobs. When my Dad (executive in a non-profit) decided to retire, I think he made it formally known about a year and a half in advance. I think the main reason is that the board wanted advance notice in order to find a replacement and then for there to be an overlap or transition period. If the norm in your position is to give six months notice, I would probably go with that.
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frugaltype
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by frugaltype »

JamesSFO wrote: Keep in mind that your company generally need not honor your notice period and can march you out the door in most states/situations because of termination at will.
They may then pay you for the two weeks anyway, either out of ethics or because other employees would then not give two weeks notice. There might also be something in the paperwork about their having to give two weeks notice.

Retiring vs. leaving for another job seems to be a different situation, to me.
ThatGuy
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by ThatGuy »

Is your contract at will? If you like the the people you work with, 2 weeks. If you don't like them, 2 minutes. If they can terminate you at any point without repercussions then, in my view, you owe them no heads up and should do whatever nets you the most money and the least pain.

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dickenjb
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by dickenjb »

Do you have a DB plan? Many pensions require 90 days notice before you receive your first pension check.
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Wricha
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Wricha »

I don't know, you claim the company has been good to you. The size of a company does not mean they should be treated less fairly and business does have the right/responsibility to be a "money machine" if done honestly. I can see protecting bonus after that why not just go in talk with your boss (your plans,consulting,timing etc)? If you have been treated fairly by the company, why would this event be different? I strongly disagree with 2 weeks notice on retirement, how you exit speaks more about you than the company.
livesoft
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by livesoft »

Why not ask your "boss"? They may retire before you.
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InvestorNewb
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by InvestorNewb »

Maybe 6 months is needed for a knowledge transfer of some sort.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

My former boss gave 6 months notice to ensure a seemless transition from the old guard to the new. Recently, a few of my colleagues have been providing 3 months notice of intention to retire. Since the company has been "good to you", why not return the favor and discuss your intention to retire with your immediate supervisor and/or bosses? End on a good note, instead of bad feelings.
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KyleAAA
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by KyleAAA »

Unless I really disliked my job, I'd probably just give the requested 6 months on the theory it's best not to burn bridges.
The Wizard
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by The Wizard »

SIx months seems excessive.
My employer requested 4 weeks notice for engineering staff, which I complied with back in Feb/Mar.
How many other employees have jobs similar to yours so that they can spread the workload while trying to hire a replacement?
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JerryS
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by JerryS »

I am planning on retiring at the end of January 2014. I am waiting for my company's bonus, which will be paid in mid-Jan. The company policy is to give 3 months notice before retiring. The company has treated me well, but I don't want to announce before the bonus is distributed (I can't count on how nice they are) and I don't want to work into April. If they ask, I would be willing to work through Feb to smooth the transition.
tacster
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by tacster »

I'm retiring in three months. I kinda thought about not telling them at all and just letting them figure out why I'm not showing up anymore, but...nah. I'll give them a couple months notice and hand off my workload like a good soon-to-be-ex employee. :)
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furwut
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by furwut »

Dave C. wrote:I am planning to begin my early retirement in roughly 5 months.
...
The company asks for 6-months notice. I would like to give notice after the first of the year, and work another 60-70 days. Working past January 1st should safeguard a bonus
Couldn't you work just one more month? 2 weeks is the business norm but, depending on the position, companies may ask for more time to ease the transition. If you are on good terms with them I don't think that should jeopardize your bonus. For a company to do so under these circumstances would be to risk wrongful termination lawsuits.
stan1
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by stan1 »

Under OP's scenario I would announce a few weeks after the bonus is paid, and provide some flexibility in departure date (although 6 months seems longer than necessary for a sales position -- if he was on the research staff I could see 6 months being very necessary). I think he has a good plan.
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hicabob
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by hicabob »

I always thought that it should be the same as the notice the company would give the employee. in my case the contract states 2 months
goonie
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by goonie »

If this were me, I would determine the exact date that I can stop working and give a 6 month notice on that day. Then I might politely inquire as to whether they really need or want me for those 6 months and see where the conversation goes. If they decide that I can leave sooner than that, then I'm all set to be able to happily walk out the door whenever. And if they want me for the full 6 months, that would be fine too. 6 months isn't going to kill me and would allow me to bank some more money.

Enjoy your retirement!
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Rainier
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Rainier »

You are not an endentured servant. Get your bonus then do what feels right. Two weeks is the norm.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by hq38sq43 »

My experience is that lengthy intervals between notice and departure are uncomfortable all around. However, sufficient notice to avoid leaving a burning bridge behind is advisable. One never knows when recrossing the bridge might be necessary or useful.

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denovo
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by denovo »

Dave C. wrote: The company asks for 6-months notice. .
Asks? Where? Do you have an employment contract?
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staythecourse
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by staythecourse »

If you know that the company expects a 6 month notice and you don't do it I think it is a bit selfish and unethical on your part. Do what you want, but this is one reason folks should not expect loyalty from the employer. If you aren't loyal to them why should they be to the employee?

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SP-diceman
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by SP-diceman »

If they cant get by with 2 weeks notice, you're underpaid. :happy
The Wizard
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by The Wizard »

SP-diceman wrote:If they cant get by with 2 weeks notice, you're underpaid. :happy
In all seriousness, I don't understand this.
The higher up you are on the company roster, the longer it's likely to take to find a good replacement, right?
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BolderBoy
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by BolderBoy »

Are you willing to burn the bridge for all time?

In my case (healthcare provider) my contract stipulated a 60 day notice for either side. I elected to give them an "I'll cover until you fill my spot with an acceptable candidate." option, which they readily accepted. Turned out to be a good deal for them, as the first candidate didn't work out after 2 months and I ended up staying on full-time for several additional months providing for a smooth transition (ended up being a 6 month notice, basically.) So when I broached the subject of my being available voluntarily (no commitment) for irregular / last minute contract coverage they were very warm to it.

Do you have that sort of warm, fuzzy relationship with your folks?
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Dale_G
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Dale_G »

I favor giving notice commensurate with the position and the ease with which a replacement can be hired/trained. My experience has been that most everyone getting ready to retire provided 3-6 months notice to the company, even though it might not be publicly announced. I didn't see anyone marched to the door.-

A two week notice is only acceptable if there is a real falling out - or the job is well down in the food chain.
In my book, two weeks notice is not acceptable for anyone with professional responsibilities.

For the OP, I agree with some others: Meet with the boss January 2, announce your pending retirement and then discuss the departure date. No one is going to chain you to your desk. On the other hand it may take a while to pass on most of the job knowledge you have acquired.

In my last job I told the company nearly two years before I retired - and I still had to do most of the work to find a replacement. :annoyed

OP - enjoy your retirement.

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umfundi
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by umfundi »

It depends on the company. Two weeks is so prevalent, I think it is a rule.

At my previous company, if you indicated any desire to leave, you would likely be walked out the door that same day.

At my current company, I have told them I will leave in December 2015, they are fine with that. It is good to be working on a succession plan.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Wricha wrote:I don't know, you claim the company has been good to you. The size of a company does not mean they should be treated less fairly and business does have the right/responsibility to be a "money machine" if done honestly. I can see protecting bonus after that why not just go in talk with your boss (your plans,consulting,timing etc)? If you have been treated fairly by the company, why would this event be different? I strongly disagree with 2 weeks notice on retirement, how you exit speaks more about you than the company.
My thoughts precisely. Well said.

Definitely protect your bonus but be flexible beyond that.
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arkerr123
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by arkerr123 »

123 wrote:Two weeks notice should be sufficient. If you give too much notice they won't have any incentive to "bargain" with you to stay longer and/or consult.
Two weeks to quit a job, yes. But, the Op is planning on Retiring. It is not a bad idea to leave on good terms from the company you retire from - especially if they hold any pensions over your head.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by cherijoh »

I am frankly amazed at the number of people saying 2 weeks is sufficient. There is a huge difference between switching jobs and retiring - two weeks is acceptable for the former since no one wants to hire someone who won't be available until some distant date in the future. But IMO you should be willing to hang around a reasonable time when retiring. Six months does sound like a long time especially since there are lots of unemployed pharma sales people these days. But that could be a CYA policy by HR since they get the heat if they can't find a good replacement candidate.

Are you assigned specific customers with whom you work and on whom you call? If so, it is reasonable to expect your company to want to find a replacement and have you introduce your replacement to ensure a smooth transition. It isn't just a matter of HR paperwork.

If you announce your pending retirement before the end of the year, would they really let you go before Jan 2 just to avoid paying a bonus? If so, they are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of getting any future retirees to give any kind of advanced notice. Or are you concerned that your announcement would impact the size of the bonus? How is it determined? Is it a formula based on reaching certain sales quotas? (Those type bonuses are harder to manipulate).
MDfive21
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by MDfive21 »

no matter how benevolent i assume the company to be, i wouldn't say a peep until the bonus was paid with a check in my hand.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by mikegerard »

I try to never burn bridges.

The best raise I ever got in the corporate world was one month after I was downsized. After the downsizing I made sure to help transition my work to other people. My manager must have appreciated the help and gave me a big raise. The raise helped since the severance was based on my salary after the raise.

I ended up going back to the company as a contractor three years later when I was between jobs. Having a good reputation opened doors for me and I got an offer to stay (or come back) when I was there the second time. I declined but it was nice to be asked back.

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Clearly_Irrational
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Clearly_Irrational »

MDfive21 wrote:no matter how benevolent i assume the company to be, i wouldn't say a peep until the bonus was paid with a check in my hand.
This. I wouldn't say a thing until I had bonus in hand. Then you can let them know that you'd like to retire in the next two to three months but you're willing stay the full six if they need the time to find a replacement.
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fandango
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by fandango »

A lot depends on how much you trust your company.

For example, if you tell them now, why would they give a person who is leaving a bonus early next year?

Also, things do change once you tell everyone that you are leaving. You become "the walking dead".

Best to set a date in your mind and give two or three weeks notice. You will know that you are leaving and still enjoy thinking about retirement.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Sconie »

You might want to check the write-up concerning the operation of the (sales) bonus plan. I know that the sales incentive plan at my former employer required the participant to actually be on the payroll on the date that the bonus was paid, which in our case was March 31st of the prior calendar year.
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goodbishop
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by goodbishop »

I would suggest waiting until you have the bonus in hand, then give at the very minimum 2 weeks notice, and more if you decide that more is required.
Dandy
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Dandy »

6 months seems long. But that depends on how long it takes to recruit and train a replacement. I would have some concern about not being shorted on my final bonus. You have to evaluate how much trust you have in your boss and the company. Have they shafted retirees on their last bonus?

If all is reasonably well I would opt for leaving on very good terms and give the notice they requested. Your boss would probably appreciate as much notice as possible.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by SiddFinch1 »

MDfive21 wrote:no matter how benevolent i assume the company to be, i wouldn't say a peep until the bonus was paid with a check in my hand.
+1. No reason to risk the bonus. Remember even if you trust your boss. Do you trust his boss?
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downshiftme
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by downshiftme »

Do you have some kind of contract that requires the 6 months notice? If so, then you need to give 6 months notice.

If there is no contract, then you can give whatever notice you like. Most US companies make a careful legal practice of pointing out that employment is at-will and they can terminate anyone at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. If your company has been good to you and somewhat reciprocal about giving terminated employees severance or notice similar to what they are requesting, then if it were me I would give a similar notice period. If the company practice has been to push people out with two weeks severance, then I'd feel under no obligation to give 6 months notice.

Since you already bring up the bonus consideration, you are already aware that they cannot be trusted to award a full bonus to someone who is leaving. Based on that (and my own experiences) I would breathe no hint at all until after the bonus is paid. Then feel free to give whatever notice seems appropriate. For a retirement, three months seems like more than sufficient. Even two months should give them plenty of time to consider their options and find a replacement if that's what they decide to do.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by umfundi »

Your company is not a person, be careful in ascribing human attributes.

How is the bonus determined? If your line of management has any discretion in determining the amount, say nothing until after it is paid.

On the other hand if there is a formula and a written company policy on how it is paid, just make sure you comply.

What if you give notice now for some future date and they say, "You're fired, effective immediately"?

For example, at one MegaCorp I know, they match annual 401k contributions but only to current employees at the end of the year. If you leave before the end of the year, no match.

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Skiffy
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Skiffy »

In one of my previous jobs, someone "retired" for a year before they gave their notice! In another job, when the person decided to move on, they really didn't do any work after they decided to quit--it makes for hard feeling all around. Another one was escorted out the door when they gave notice.

Once you give your notice, you change how you think about your job--no new projects, no new ideas, not willing to put up with the crap that you tolerate when you're in it for the long haul. In other words, I think 6 months is excessive, but your job culture may be completely different from what my experience has been.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Steelersfan »

I gave two to three months notice that I was retiring, but there were no bonus dates in the mix since this was a mid-year retirement. If my desired retirement date was near a bonus decision or payment date I'd wait until after that was done to tell anyone, then work out how long they want you to work. You can always then decide on your own to shorten it if that's your desire. You hold all the cards at that point.

If you're in a professional position, as you are, two weeks is very unprofessional.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by nodenuff2 »

Just signed my first notice. Gave just over 3 months notice. Seemed about right. Company needs time to plan on how and who to distribute my workload. Jan. 31 and I am done.
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derosa
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by derosa »

If you are in sales, in any company, and you give your notice (2 weeks is plenty or whatever) be prepared to be walked to the door right then. They will mail you the last check for your two weeks of base salary. The fact that you are concerned about your bonus says it all. There must be some reason you are worried?

There is nothing more useless to any company than a sales rep that has given notice.

You don't say how other sales reps have handled this situation or been treated. I would look closely at those situations in the last year to see what will happen to you.

Knowledge transfer? Excuse me -- This is sales.
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Ged
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by Ged »

I had a couple of positions like this that specified 6 months notice prior to retirement. Two weeks was fine for resignations. You may find that if you retire with shorter notice your bennies won't start right away.
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tainted-meat
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by tainted-meat »

I'd give what they ask if they've been fair to other employees. I'm not a fan of burning bridges.
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Re: Giving notice...how much time?

Post by jlawrence01 »

Personally, I gave two months notice as I thought that was an appropriate notice for a person in my position.

There are several disadvantages of a long notice:

1) You become a lame duck. It is much more difficult to manage your staff as they know you are a short-timer.
2) You run the risk of being walked out of the building immediately.
3) The transference of knowledge does not seem to take place until the last week or two.
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