[How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistance?]

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Skinut
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[How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistance?]

Post by Skinut »

This is an extremely stressful and complex situation, any advice on the below is greatly appreciated!

My parents are 57 (mom) and 76 (dad), my dad is in treatment for alchoholism and may have some kind of mental disorder. He is having test done in the coming weeks to determine his condition, depending on the results, he may need to go into some sort of assisted living facility. I know this would be expensive and they could not afford it, thus the state would take their assets, then take over the cost of care. I am wondering how to maximize the assets for my mom in the event that happens.

Assets
House: $250,000 (2 years left to pay off mortgage)
His Retirement: $120,000
Her Retirement: $45,000
His life insurance policy: ~ $300 - 500,000? (not term, some sort of whole life, they pay $500 per month to keep it active)

My mom makes around $30,000 per year, my dad is retired and collects SS.

Questions
1. Should they get a divorce?
2. If they get a divorce, do they have to divide the assets equally? Could the state contest?
3. If they stay together and he does go into an assisted care facility, would my mom lose the house and her retirement funds?
4. Is there any way my mom could still get his life insurance when he passes away?
5. Any other thoughts or things to consider?

Thank you for any help, my mom is consulting with a lawyer and financial planner, it makes me sick to my stomache to think what could happen if she gets bad advice, which is why I'm posting this here.
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Mrs.Feeley
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Re: Might lose house, divorce or not? How to protect assets?

Post by Mrs.Feeley »

Is he a veteran? There is a program that offers nursing home assistance for vets:

"Little Known Benefit for Aging Veterans" from NY Times
http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2012 ... -veterans/
investor
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Re: Might lose house, divorce or not? How to protect assets?

Post by investor »

You did not post your state. This stuff is state dependent.

There is an organization here in California that gives free lectures and information on Elder Care issues. Check their site at:

http://www.help4srs.org
(310) 533 1966

Give them a call, they might be of help.

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LadyGeek
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by LadyGeek »

Hi,

I retitled your thread as it might give the wrong impression - to hide assets instead of asking for appropriate legal protection. If you want to change the thread title, just edit the Subject line in Post #1.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
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Skinut
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by Skinut »

investor wrote:You did not post your state. This stuff is state dependent.
State: Minnesota
Mrs.Feeley wrote:Is he a veteran? There is a program that offers nursing home assistance for vets:
No
LadyGeek wrote:I retitled your thread as it might give the wrong impression - to hide assets instead of asking for appropriate legal protection. If you want to change the thread title, just edit the Subject line in Post #1.
Thanks LadyGeek! Your suggestions to title changes have helped alot of people get better advice over the years :beer
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Skinut
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by Skinut »

Anyone else have any thoughts? If I need to add more info please let me know. Thanks!
Leemiller
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by Leemiller »

I'm sorry that you and your family are going through this. Divorce may be an option but I would do nothing without consulting an attorney who specializes in elder care issues.
ilskeptic
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by ilskeptic »

Medicaid -- I'm assuming that's the program that would support him in assisted living -- contains certain minimum asset and income protections for a recipient's spouse. The house is usually (maybe always?) an exempt asset, meaning your mother could keep it. However, she might have to make a tough decision about whether she could afford to keep paying both the mortgage and the life insurance premiums. I'd be surprised if a divorce would help much, but I'm not a Minnesota eldercare attorney, and that is who you need to talk to.

Good luck to you and your family.
mhalley
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by mhalley »

This is a case where help from a professional would be required. There are many lawyers that specialize in doing stuff like this. I think the guy that I listen to on the radio calls himself an "elder law" attorney.
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by carolinaman »

I am sorry to hear of your father's situation. I certainly hope they get the advice needed to get him into the best situation possible.

Your mother needs to make sure the attorney has expertise in elder law matters which can get complicated. Hopefully, between the attorney and the financial planner, she will get good advice.

Neither Medicare or Medicaid covers assisted living. This is private pay. Once someone becomes disabled to where an assisted living facility can no longer care for them, they must go to a nursing home. This too would be private pay (and much more expensive) until they qualify for Medicaid. My mother went through this process in 2011/2012 in VA (states may vary on this). To qualify for Medicaid, she had to have assets less than $2,000 (excluding her home) and a monthly income less than around $1,500. She was a widow so we had to put her house up for sale and Medicaid would recover their costs from the proceeds. Medicaid does not require the sale of the house if a spouse or dependent lives there.

His assets should enable him to live in assisted living for several years. Even so, I would suggest that you or your mother talk with social services in your state to become familiar with the rules and requirements should that ever become necessary. BTW: Medicaid has a "clawback" provision that allows them to reclaim assets that have given to others within a five year period.

Best wishes.
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Skinut
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by Skinut »

Thank you all for the replies!

johnep - I appreciate you taking the time to provide an in-depth response, it is very helpful!
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tom0153
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by tom0153 »

Work with the discharge planners where your father is being treated. You want to ask them to ensure that he will continue to receive appropriate mental health care in a facility recognized by your state as a treatment facility.

This is not the same as assisted living.

It is very important to take part in the selection of an appropriate facility.

An elder care attorney would have expertise in what constitutes exempt assets for medicaid. The attorney will need to know the rules. He takes into account your father's needs, and your mother's needs.

It is possible to qualify for entry into such a facility, and then your father begins to spend down his assets. He would continue to pay his share of the mortgage, and for his life insurance. Ownership of the policy is something the lawyer wants to look at.

I can remember hearing about how an engagement ring was an exempt asset. It didn't have to be the ring that you got when you were engaged 40 years ago, it just have to be the engagement ring that was in use now. Odd kind of rule, I thought. Same with a new kitchen and bath, maybe a new roof, etc. I said to myself, no wonder folks have to go find lawyers, but this was before the term elder care attorney was in use.

How do you find such an attorney? Well, your state bar likely maintains a list, but being able to talk to people that this lawer or that actually served, those things are key, as are personal recommendations from others, but you have to then determine expertise that way.
Best, Tom
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tom0153
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Re: [How to max assets for one spouse, other needs assistanc

Post by tom0153 »

You have to hand it to Google.

This information that you can share with an attorney is specific to your state.

There are also social service agencies, like those suggested in California previously, that help to interpret some of this stuff. Maybe these folks do similar? http://www.lawhelpmn.org/issues/seniors ... -housing-1

Anyway, this is what you want to see: http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/MAasset.pdf

Never minimize a situation when seeking support for health care. Let the experts make their assessments, you need to get your foot in the door.
Best, Tom
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