pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

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VictoriaF
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by VictoriaF »

TheScarletPimpernel wrote:I have hired hundreds of people over the years. An economics degree…hmmm, uh not really impressed unless you have at least a 3.85/4.0 GPA and can explain to me why you decided to major in economics.

Butt now an Econ degree and doing it in 3 years compared to your peers – ah-ha now I am interested. It shows me you can plan ahead, sacrifice, set goals and obtain them. It also perfectly embroiders the essence of economics: the allocation of scare resources (money) among alternative wants and needs. Now tell me you blew that with a second major in music and I going to pass onto someone else. In fact the 3 year thing better be highlighted on the resume to catch my attention because if your grades are not stellar and from a college noted for Econ (i.e University of Chicago) I am going to pass, especially if I see music as a second major.
Economics have an important concept of signaling. Michael Spence received the 2001 Nobel Prize in Economics for his 1970s work on the value of education as a signal. Even if education had not provided any work-related skills, it would separate those who have the talent and perseverance to go through school from those who don't have what it takes.

Now, that virtually anyone can get some type of education, signals must be stronger, e.g., one of the top schools, one of the hardest majors, prize-winning research, etc. A double-major is a weak signal, because many do it. Graduating in 3 years is a mixed signal. On one hand, it shows that you can work faster. On the other hand, it shows that you may lack deliberateness, don't like school, could not find exciting courses and projects to work on, or that you are desperate for money.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Valuethinker
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by Valuethinker »

VictoriaF wrote:
TheScarletPimpernel wrote:I have hired hundreds of people over the years. An economics degree…hmmm, uh not really impressed unless you have at least a 3.85/4.0 GPA and can explain to me why you decided to major in economics.

Butt now an Econ degree and doing it in 3 years compared to your peers – ah-ha now I am interested. It shows me you can plan ahead, sacrifice, set goals and obtain them. It also perfectly embroiders the essence of economics: the allocation of scare resources (money) among alternative wants and needs. Now tell me you blew that with a second major in music and I going to pass onto someone else. In fact the 3 year thing better be highlighted on the resume to catch my attention because if your grades are not stellar and from a college noted for Econ (i.e University of Chicago) I am going to pass, especially if I see music as a second major.

All that being stated here is what I would do. I would plan my preferred execution path and a couple of contingency plans. The preferred path would be 3 years and interviewing extensively. If I could not turn up a job then I would execute a more practical second major or grad school depending on what would be more valuable in the job market.

I am not familiar with the education savings plan you are in, but we had 33K or so left over after my son graduated (he grabbed the job and did not go to grade school). We simply made him the beneficiary at death. So he can name whomever he wants in the event he has children. So likely that 35K will be compounding for 25-30 years tax free. I would think if she is family minded that might also appeal to her.

Good luck.
Economics have an important concept of signaling.

Victoria
There is very little you do with an *undergraduate* degree in economics that has much to do with the working world.

In consulting or banking there are some fundamental concepts which are useful (marginal cost, etc.). But an undergrad degree in economics doesn't give you the tools to do any proper economic (ie model based) thinking about them.

people mistake the study of economics for the study of business. There are (useful) overlaps eg Besanko and Dranelove' 'Economics and Strategy' textbook, so called Managerial Economics. Bit of game theory (for negotiations). Stats is useful (sometimes). But they are really very different subjects.

So I would say the primary use of studying economics in undergrad is as a signalling device to employers in business.

Unfortunately for graduate work in economics the best undergrad is something like mathematics (pure or applied), physics, engineering. You really need a very high level of competence with calculus and a good foundation in probability and statistics. The academic study of economics has ceased to be a 'liberal art' in any true sense of the word.

I would argue the mental discipline of the study of music is quite useful. There is that combination of the science (getting the notes right) and the art. Many mathematicians are also good at music. A running joke is that mathematicians make good pianists (think the brilliant singer satirist Tom Lehrer) and physicists make violinists.
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steve r
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by steve r »

As an economics professor I have seen students with "odd"/"unique" double majors do very well. Economic majors do very well and is one of the top paid non-engineering major (see PayScale.com pay by major). This survey assumes no Master's degree. Diverse skill sets actually strengthens ones skills in both areas. She will likely have a unique way of thinking about economics.

That said, this strikes me very much as a personal decision -- not one based on the opinions of others. Moreover, it is probably not a good idea to base it on finances unless it cannot be avoided.

Personally, I would have been better off graduating in 3 years ... my 4th year was a waste .. I was ready to be finished and move on. Moreover, I knew this at the time. Don't get me wrong, I loved the college experience, but to me it grew old. Others whom I have known had a different experience, got internships, study abroad and the like in the last year and benefited from the 4th years.

I would trust whatever your daughter decides. There is no way of knowing what the right answer will be with this decision. She must own it. By going with what feels right to her it is "more likely" to be right for her. Being more likely to be right does not mean it is the right decision, only a best guess at it.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by KlangFool »

Valuethinker wrote:
I would argue the mental discipline of the study of music is quite useful. There is that combination of the science (getting the notes right) and the art. Many mathematicians are also good at music. A running joke is that mathematicians make good pianists (think the brilliant singer satirist Tom Lehrer) and physicists make violinists.
Valuethinker,

I love music. I just disagree on paying for a piece of paper that say a person minor in music. My older brother that earned his BSEE in 2 1/2 years played 3 music instruments. I was a tenor in an amateur choir.

Many of my family members are engineers. And, we either sing or play music instruments. Most of us are born with perfect pitch.

If a person love music, that person would find a way to study music. That person would not need to get a minor in music. Now, if a person does not love music, how does that piece of paper and additional expense help??

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dziuniek
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by dziuniek »

William4u wrote:
dziuniek wrote:Accounting major here, BIG 4 mostly care about the gpa only as well.
Anything 3.4 gpa & above is pretty solid.

I would take 4 years and get the best grades possible. That's been my experience anyways.
I find that a little surprising. A 3.4 GPA was good 20 years ago (top 15% at many universities), but with the more recent extreme grade inflation it can put someone in the bottom half of their class at some universities.

No joke. 20 years ago, the average at my (elite) university for a graduating senior was a 2.7. Even that was grade inflation relative to 20 years before that, when a 2.0 was average. Now a 3.4 puts a student just inside of the top 50% at many universities today. I wouldn't consider a 3.4 good today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_infl ... ted_States

Sure, I agree to some extent. I never considered myself a great student. That being said, PwC in my region hires atleast 50% of their 1st years from UConn. I got the job with a 3.25 gpa. Close ties with the university might be a big part of that. That being said, I was also given the chance to interview with E&Y and Accenture, Bank of America, etc.

I was told that 3.4 was pretty solid for UConn's accounting program, as far as big4 requirements go.

Keep in mind, this is for audit and tax, consulting is a whole different ballgame here.
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TheEternalVortex
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by TheEternalVortex »

I had this exact choice in college. I did the double major, not because it had any career benefit, but merely because college is much more fun than working.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by LongerPrimer »

Double post
Last edited by LongerPrimer on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by Professor Emeritus »

168gr wrote:
mbenz1997 wrote:Here's an alternative perspective - if she decides to go to medical school, admissions committees will eat up a candidate with a double major in non-science fields (assuming she has the prereqs or goes back and does them later).

1) Med school admission is a numbers game. Adcoms won't care one bit about the 2nd major or extracurricular anything if the applicant doesn't have the gpa and MCAT numbers to be competitive. A lot of premeds dilute their efforts with extracurricular work or nonacademic passions they think will make them "interesting" to adcoms, only to get lower grades and then lose out to one-dimensional applicants with top numbers. Sucks, but it's the cold hard truth.
:D Of course, but it does do wonders for the income of defense malpractice lawyers and physician financial advisers :D
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I've taught health care risk management (AKA avoiding malpractice)to physicians.
On average the docs come out of medical school as narrow minded medical techies with limited people skills. They also marry one another.
On average outside of their focused area of medicine they are astonishingly ignorant and inept . Look at the medical communities response to the Ebola problem and public reaction and you get the idea.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by Valuethinker »

Professor Emeritus wrote:
:D Of course, but it does do wonders for the income of defense malpractice lawyers and physician financial advisers :D
DW is a retired physician
I've taught health care risk management (AKA avoiding malpractice)to physicians.
On average the docs come out of medical school as narrow minded medical techies with limited people skills. They also marry one another.
I am OK with everything the other poster said about admissions (high MCATs and GPAs) and what you have written (to the extent I understand the US system) BUT
On average outside of their focused area of medicine they are astonishingly ignorant and inept . Look at the medical communities response to the Ebola problem and public reaction and you get the idea.
First point may be true. I think Ebola has a big political dimension. I actually think the medical services (or at least many doctors and nurses) have distinguished themselves on Ebola as brave and conscientious people. Particularly that woman doctor who died in Lagos. She lived, and died, in the fullness of the Hypocratic Oath. If there's a place of honour in the afterlife she will be there.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... geria-hero

Dr Stella Ameyo.

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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by jlawrence01 »

I think that one of the problems these days with some of the demanding subjects - accounting, engineering, and pre-medical , is that the majors are so demanding that there is little time for the humanities which would make them more rounded people.

For the record, I was a philosophy major who spent more of my career in corporate finance.

=====================

When I was hiring, I really did not consider the school the candidates attended, the major, or any of that stuff. I was looking for personal attributes, what they accomplished in ALL the jobs they held, and their ability to communicate in oral and written form. I really liked some of the candidates who could say that they worked their way through college and how they did it. It shows a lot of perseverance.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Finish in 3. Bust her butt for a year and a half on the masters including summer and she ends up with bachelor and master in 4 and a half I know this is doable. I did my msee in 18 months including the most academically challenging summer ever.
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by 123 »

A major in music is only useful in the job market is she intends to be hired as a teacher. The major demonstrates academic knowledge. If she wants a career related to music performance she can persue that based on talent/audition alone.

That being said I'd vote for a graduate degree instead of a second major.
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celia
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Re: pick up double major or finish college in 3 years?

Post by celia »

Part of the reason for going to college is to experience different things that you may not have an opportunity for later. She should take classes outside the major and minor that appeal to her. I think this is important, especially for those who plan a career where they will come in contact with the public (doctors, lawyer, teachers, sales, bankers are the first to come to mind). Many people change careers (even more than once) and you never know what will be a useful background to have. I'll bet Mark Zuckerberg wished he had taken Chinese classes earlier. I wish I had taken a class in entrepreneurship, just to see what it was like.

If possible, she could even look into a semester abroad.
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