How much is too much for car repairs?

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zerlegen
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How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by zerlegen »

I drive a '93 Honda Accord that just turned over 200K miles (it's a hand-me-down from my father who bought it as a demo in '94).

Adding up all my repair costs from wear and tear over the past 3 years or so, it's averaging about $250/month. Mechanics at the shop I take
it to say it's going strong and still has plenty of miles left in it.

From a financial perspective, do you think $250/month is too high for repair costs given that the car is paid for and still has long term potential?
Or am I being overly cheap?


Thanks in advance.
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interplanetjanet
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by interplanetjanet »

What kind of repairs are they?

If they're items like rubber hoses, belts, filters, brakes, bearings...it's not uncommon for auto maintenance costs to rise up some when "wear items" get taken care of. You may find that maintenance costs will decrease again after most of these have been changed out.

One of the most reliable cars I ever had was a (at the time) 20 year old Acura Legend that came to me with 195k miles on it. It needed some wear items taken care of, but after that I drove it 60k miles over the next three years with only an oxygen sensor that needed replacement before giving it to a good friend. I still miss that car...
MathWizard
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by MathWizard »

I would trade up. You are spending $3K per year on just the car (not gas)
I buy used and spend about $2K per year, not counting gas and oil changes,
and keep the car 8 to 10 years.
Default User BR
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Default User BR »

250 per month is quite a bit. I had to think hard about spending $1000 on the 95 Bronco (included new tires) recently, but I hadn't had any repair work for two years previously.


Brian
ShowMeTheER
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by ShowMeTheER »

I would move on as of the next significant bill. $2,000 - $2,500 per year is my target cost on cars... but to each his own!
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SteveNet
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by SteveNet »

With a 20yr old vehicle with 200K on it, if it was just that I would say run it till it drops.
But...it's costing you average $250 per month for 3 yrs. to keep it running???
Time to let it go, perhaps the mechanics who say it's still strong will buy it from you. Let someone else help it die gracefully at their expense.
Pull the plug on it take it off of your life $upport.

imo.
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zerlegen
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by zerlegen »

Hi all,

Thanks much for the responses so far. I should clarify that this is *average* cost over 3 years. It's skewed by the fact that I had a couple of major repair jobs toward the end of 2011 that ended up being north of $3-4K. To be honest, I didn't want to be bothered to shop for another car at the time and I was crossing my fingers that it was worth the investment (long story short: lots of wear and tear replacements done at the same time to save on labor). The car often goes for 6 months or more without any repairs.

I'm probably being somewhat over-optimizing, but wanted to hear what others typically pay for repairs.
lwfitzge
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by lwfitzge »

Right now you can get a brand new Honda Civic Sedan (not much different in size to a '93 Accord) with all the modern amenities and safety features w no money down and $240/month. That's with not even haggling on price. You get a brand new car for roughly the same monthly expense (not including any state tax or insurance differentials).
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midareff
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by midareff »

When you can lease a new car under warranty for less than your maintenance costs its time to go.
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bottlecap
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by bottlecap »

What has it cost you since those major repairs? It would seem that you performed those "wear and tear" repairs so you could get some more life out of the vehicle. Assuming those repairs did the trick and your monthly repair costs have dropped back below $75 per month or so, I don't see it as a money pit you "need" to get rid of for economic reasons.

JT
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by YttriumNitrate »

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Last edited by YttriumNitrate on Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SteveNet
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by SteveNet »

zerlegen wrote:
I'm probably being somewhat over-optimizing, but wanted to hear what others typically pay for repairs.
My repair costs would be of no use as I do all my own repairs and maintenance. So just the cost of parts for me.

EDIT...for example, I'm not picking on YttriumNitrate,
but to replace the rear brakes on that vehicle with all new parts... Drums, shoes, springs, wheel cyl, emerg brake, would have cost me $160.
And some time of course :wink:
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Woodshark
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Woodshark »

If it's running OK now then I would keep driving it and start saving $250 per month in an account for a future vehicle. Make small repairs as needed but as soon as you have saved maybe $3000 I would sell it for what you can and buy something newer. Another option is, if you still like driving it, then you could just continue to drive it and just keep saving. With luck you might drive it for another two or three years. If it has major break that is over $500 to repair I would sell it as is and move on.
donall
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by donall »

Woodshark wrote:If it's running OK now then I would keep driving it and start saving $250 per month in an account for a future vehicle. Make small repairs as needed but as soon as you have saved maybe $3000 I would sell it for what you can and buy something newer. Another option is, if you still like driving it, then you could just continue to drive it and just keep saving. With luck you might drive it for another two or three years. If it has major break that is over $500 to repair I would sell it as is and move on.
This sounds like good advice. Some new cars have amazing MPG that may also tempt you to abandon the 93 honda.
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jeffyscott
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by jeffyscott »

zerlegen wrote:Hi all,

Thanks much for the responses so far. I should clarify that this is *average* cost over 3 years. It's skewed by the fact that I had a couple of major repair jobs toward the end of 2011 that ended up being north of $3-4K. To be honest, I didn't want to be bothered to shop for another car at the time and I was crossing my fingers that it was worth the investment (long story short: lots of wear and tear replacements done at the same time to save on labor). The car often goes for 6 months or more without any repairs.

I'm probably being somewhat over-optimizing, but wanted to hear what others typically pay for repairs.
$250 per month is $3000 per year. So you have spent $9000 in the last 3 years repairing a 20 year old run of the mill car?

I keep records of every repair and maintenance expense on our cars. The last old car we had was a 14 year old Windstar that had 125,000 miles on it. Over the entire 14 years (from Aug 1997 through June 2011) and 125,000 miles we spent $7700 on repairs and maintenance. The most in 3 years was less than $3000.

When it was 9 years old and had about 100,000 miles it needed major repairs that would have been more than we were willing to put into it. We found a willing tech college and got it done with no labor cost, so the required stuff plus a bunch of addition, might-as-well parts it was just under $1000. That year we spent a total of $1200 on repairs and maintenance. That is the most we ever spent in a single year.
livesoft
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by livesoft »

I wouldn't put any money into a '93 Honda, so even buying new tires is not worth it. Go buy another car.

If you have to pay more than the car is worth to repair it, you might as well buy another working '93 car for that price.

And quite a lot of repairs are not needed.
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Watty
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Watty »

I would be concerned that the safety equipment of a 1993 car would not be nearly as good as a more modern car so I would factor that into your decision. I would assume it has a diver airbag but does it even have passenger side airbag?

The problem with waiting until the car dies is that you will then need to buy a replacement in a hurry and that can cost you a lot. I had to buy a car in a hurry once and I am sure I could have done a lot better if I could have taken more than a week to buy a car.

If it were me I would start looking for a much newer or even new replacement car and wait to buy one until you find a great deal.
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by livesoft »

Watty wrote: I had to buy a car in a hurry once and I am sure I could have done a lot better if I could have taken more than a week to buy a car.
In such a situation, I would rent a car for a week or two. Or at least investigate renting.
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cosmicblue
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by cosmicblue »

I agree with Watty. There have been many safety improvement in vehicles since 1993 and I would opt for a newer vehicle.
Busting Myths
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Busting Myths »

zerlegen wrote:I drive a '93 Honda Accord that just turned over 200K miles (it's a hand-me-down from my father who bought it as a demo in '94).

Adding up all my repair costs from wear and tear over the past 3 years or so, it's averaging about $250/month. Mechanics at the shop I take
it to say it's going strong and still has plenty of miles left in it.

From a financial perspective, do you think $250/month is too high for repair costs given that the car is paid for and still has long term potential?
Or am I being overly cheap?


Thanks in advance.
Those mechanics see a $250 per month cash cow....ofcourse they say keep it so you can bring it in. Either the car is a clunker and you should replace it or your are being grossly over charged for repair work. I have a 93 Honda Accord (155K miles) and in the 10 years I have owned it I have not spent more than $1,000 in non routine maintenance expenses. The biggest maintenance work these cars need are every 90K when the timing belt is recommended to be changed and that service goes for $500-$1000 at honda dealerships in my area.

I am curious what was done when you spent the $3-4K at the end of 2011.
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Frugal Al
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Frugal Al »

There's more to the cost than just the monetary outlay for the repairs--downtime, safety and overall unreliability have a cost associated with them as well. Only you can place a value on those issues. If this is a little used second vehicle, downtime and unreliability may not cost much. If it is a twenty year old daily driver, it's time to move on, assuming you can afford it.
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SteveNet
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by SteveNet »

Busting Myths wrote:
zerlegen wrote:I drive a '93 Honda Accord that just turned over 200K miles (it's a hand-me-down from my father who bought it as a demo in '94).

Adding up all my repair costs from wear and tear over the past 3 years or so, it's averaging about $250/month. Mechanics at the shop I take
it to say it's going strong and still has plenty of miles left in it.

From a financial perspective, do you think $250/month is too high for repair costs given that the car is paid for and still has long term potential?
Or am I being overly cheap?


Thanks in advance.
Those mechanics see a $250 per month cash cow....of course they say keep it so you can bring it in.
I couldn't agree more, back around 1989 I had an old 1980 citation, ran good, basic transportation. 130K on the odom.
I had the front wheel bearings replaced and when you do that you need a new wheel alignment.
$250 for them to put on "1" wheel bearing just for the part... $63 for me to buy it at J C Whitney.
Of course I needed 2.
After the alignment I was told, If I wanted to keep the car I should replace the front struts, by the mechanic.
There was nothing wrong with the struts, no leaking, no tire hop, he just looked at them and made the statement.
Nah, I ran it into the ground.
Good mechanics are hard to find that won't try to take you for every penny they can get away with while it's on the lift.
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

What exactly have you had repaired or replaced that is costing you $250 a month?
I own a 96 Honda Civic, bought it new - the first ten years only needed to replace the front pads, front rotors, spark plugs (once - I upgraded from copper plugs to 100K platinum plugs from NGK), oil changes, air filter, changed the belts once, the hoses once, flushed radiator twice), battery (x2) transmission fluid change (2x) - no filter change, it's factory sealed. Total cost of repairs was about 1,500.

Since then, the last 6 years - replaced the tires ($360), front pads ($69), catalytic converter, exhaust pipe and muffler ($750), oil changes, air filter, battery. Oh, and my front window, electric motors went - each time $250, ouch! Knock on wood. It's still worth it to keep the car even though I know in the next 2 years or so, I'll need a timing belt/water pump job (been quoted $600 to do it) and probably need to replace two of my tires.

Either you are getting ripped off, you drive the car into the ground or something else. How many miles do you have on the car?
BTW, I disagree, it's not unsafe to drive these vehicles, I've seen deathtraps driven on the highway - a 93 Accord is not a deathtrap, but no car can guarantee your safety even with the latest upgrades - speed kills, I've seen plenty of nutjobs who drive very aggressively because they don't want to be late to their funeral, if you catch my drift - especially those who think their 2013 Benz, Bimmer, Rover, Expedition, is going to protect them from stupidity. :oops:
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

SteveNet wrote:With a 20yr old vehicle with 200K on it, if it was just that I would say run it till it drops.
But...it's costing you average $250 per month for 3 yrs. to keep it running???
Time to let it go, perhaps the mechanics who say it's still strong will buy it from you. Let someone else help it die gracefully at their expense.
Pull the plug on it take it off of your life $upport.

imo.
Be careful with that...I know one mechanic who took a lady's problem Cadillac STS off her hands because it was "shaking". :oops: What she failed to realize was all it needed was new motor mounts. $900 later in repairs, the Caddy is running as smooth as the day it was picked up from the dealership. After the sale, the former owner was shocked (shocked I tell you) :shock: :o :shock: to find her old Caddy running the local streets in "very fine" condition. In other words, she was ripped off by an unscrouplous mechanic who deceived her into thinking it was a "problem" car that could not be resuscitated. :oops: :oops: The mechanic bought the car from her for $500.
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SteveNet
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by SteveNet »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
SteveNet wrote:With a 20yr old vehicle with 200K on it, if it was just that I would say run it till it drops.
But...it's costing you average $250 per month for 3 yrs. to keep it running???
Time to let it go, perhaps the mechanics who say it's still strong will buy it from you. Let someone else help it die gracefully at their expense.
Pull the plug on it take it off of your life $upport.

imo.
Be careful with that...I know one mechanic who took a lady's problem Cadillac STS off her hands because it was "shaking". :oops: What she failed to realize was all it needed was new motor mounts. $900 later in repairs, the Caddy is running as smooth as the day it was picked up from the dealership. After the sale, the former owner was shocked (shocked I tell you) :shock: :o :shock: to find her old Caddy running the local streets in "very fine" condition. In other words, she was ripped off by an unscrouplous mechanic who deceived her into thinking it was a "problem" car that could not be resuscitated. :oops: :oops: The mechanic bought the car from her for $500.
I wasn't suggesting that it should be common practice to offer a vehicle up to the mechanic for sale.
But under these conditions where the mechanic says that a 20yr old car with 200K and has had 9K in repairs in the last 3 years "it's going strong and still has plenty of miles left in it" is well a bit ludicrous.
Offering to 'that' mechanic for him to buy it (If he thinks it's still worth the price) would most likely be met with some kind of excuse not to be able to buy it.
I personally don't think the mechanic was being honest, and his (in my opinion) excuse for not buying it would make it obvious.
$900 for a motor mount(s)? There had to be more for that kind of $$.
But your point is well taken, people will sell a vehicle for some silly reasons.
I bought a used vehicle once that was traded in by the owner, after I had it (with a warranty) I brought it back as it was using 1 qt of oil every 100 miles!
Turned out the original owner knew it and was the reason of the trade in... He had installed a wrong PCV valve, for $2. The right valve for $2 was all it needed.
I ran it for years with no oil usage after that.
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magellan
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by magellan »

In terms of expected repair cost and repair cost volatility, I think of a new car as a short term treasury bill, while a high-mileage car is more like an emerging market stock. On average, an older car offers lower overall transportation costs, however with an older vehicle, you're exposed to more volatility. That volatility includes the month-to-month costs, as well as a particular vehicle's lifetime operating cost.

I think there's also a pricing/information asymmetry argument that makes buying newer cars a little safer. This applies to both the car purchase, and to the repairs. I've found that with the help of the Internet, buying a new car is straightforward and it''s pretty easy to get a good price using well known approaches. Once you buy a new car, you're not at anyone's mercy for repairs for a few years. If you can control costs at the purchase, you don't have to worry about getting ripped off at purchase time or in $800 to $1200 chunks each year.

Of course, competent 'active management' can help mitigate the risks and volatility associated with used car ownership. But IMO many people do much worse than they realize when all is said and done. BTW - This is coming from someone who didn't buy his first new car until age 40. Prior to that I always bought cars with 50k-100k miles on them and drove them into the ground. I felt I was good at that game, but IMO it's a lot harder to 'win' than many realize and now I feel that the cost hit of buying new is not as great as it may seem.

Jim
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by Busting Myths »

magellan wrote:In terms of expected repair cost and repair cost volatility, I think of a new car as a short term treasury bill, while a high-mileage car is more like an emerging market stock.

I respectably disagree. A new car is buying a call option to control your repair cost volatility (in this case trying to eliminate repair cost for X warranty period). Call option pays off if actual repair costs on the old car are higher than the net cost of a new car for the same period of ownership (all else constant).
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by likegarden »

I also vote for that if the monthly lease costs for a brand new car are around the repair costs for that old car, then it is time to sell the old car and lease that brand new and modern new car. I did that in 2004 with my 1993 Buick Century when repair costs were $200/month. The lease cost was $189/month for a brand new and then modern Buick Century which now only has 76,000 miles and very low maintenance costs. I paid the remainder of the lease after 4 years.
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jeffyscott
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by jeffyscott »

The reduced repair cost of a new car is extremely likely to go well beyond the warranty period. I think it is very likely that a new car will have minimal repair costs up to something like 60-100K miles. So something like 5-8 years, if you average 12,000 miles per year.

Our most recent car is a 2007 Mazda6, bought new on Jan 31, 2007 for $17,000, including tax. Now worth $8300 kbb/$8000 edmunds (private party). Total for all maintenance over 6 years, 1 month and about 50,000 miles is $1250, no repairs. So if I were to get $8000 for it, our total cost would be $140 per month. Even if you were to include the opportunity cost of having more cash tied up in a car instead of in, say, a CD the cost would still be under $200 per month.
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by mmaguy »

Hindsight is 20-20. You can't change what you spent but you have to ask yourself how much you like driving your car? If another big repair is needed, can you stomach the bill? Having the repairs done, would you be happy driving your car for another 5 - 10 years given it only needed minor repairs? I havent purchased a vehicle in a while but I will bet $250 a month doesn't get you a whole lot without a lofty down payment.

I havent had a carpayment for 6 years and plan on staying that way. I have a few good mates who a skilled mechanics. I lean on them when I need to.
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jeffyscott
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Re: How much is too much for car repairs?

Post by jeffyscott »

New car example #2, 2005 newJetta purchased end of May 2005 for $19,900. Now worth (private party) $5765 per edmunds or $8661 per kbb. So after 94 months and 54,000 miles depreciation has been $120-150 per month, maintenance $18.50 per month, no repairs. So, at this point it's been about $160 to 190 per month for this car.

Now maybe over the next 8 years it only depreciates about $50 per month or so, maintenance should average about the same...so probably at least $70 per month for those two items. Then if repair costs come in at around $100 or so per month the cost for the second 8 years will be equal to the 1st 8 years.
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