Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

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Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby cprgrfx » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:12 pm

Facts are simple
    My dad co-signed three Sallie Mae school loans for my daughter.
    Daughter has been making timely payments for over two years.
    Father (co-signer) passed away last month.
    SIMM associates, Sallie Mae loan servicer, insinuates loan balances are due in full because of death of co-signer.
    There is language in the promissory note that says loan "may" be declared in default on death of co-signer.
    SIMM provides a note with payoff information, but one loan amount is too high by about $20,000.
    When Sallie Mae was contacted, they (correctly, I say) said on presentation of a death certificate, the loan obligation will be the sole responsibility of my daughter.
    Death certificate has been provided to Sallie Mae.

I say this is ridiculous, as I don't see any mention on the Internet of a Sallie Mae loan being called because of the death of a co-signer.

In fact, some school loans can actually be forgiven on the death of a co-signer (we're not asking for that!).

What would you experts do? I think SIMM is trying to take advantage of the situation to get their money quickly. You? Have you ever heard of these shenanigans? And who would you go to (eventually) to file a complaint against the servicing company (SIMM)

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby DaveS » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:36 am

Legally the decision to accelerate has to be made in good faith. The legal basis is that in every contract is an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. This is often the theory advanced in lender liability cases. So the fact the person you talked to might have been having a bad day, is not the last word on this issue. The fact the loan is not in default is a good indication that any decision to accelerate payment is not a good faith decision. Frankly I don't think anything is going to happen as long as payments remain current.

But if you want to vent, find out who regulates the servicer, and call or look at their web page and see what kind of complaint mechanism exists. Usually if you look at SIMM associates web page it will say who regulates them. For example if it says FDIC insured, it is FDIC. Dave
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby cprgrfx » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:01 pm

Helpful from a legal perspective. Bolsters our case. They're still being adamant, but we're unable to get statements/demands from them in writing, if that tells you something. Attorney is going to come down on them like a ton of bricks. :happy Thanks so much!
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby pmotnm » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:59 pm

Hello there...was running some research on this Simm Associates and I came across this site, Bogleheads. So, I decided to register so I could respond to your message about the "Death of Co-Signer."

Your situation is identical to my son's. My mother co-signed on his student loans several years ago. My son has been 100% current on paying the loans but when the executor to my mother's will sent the death notice to Sallie Mae, as required, all of a sudden letters came to my mothers estate saying the loans had come due. The executor contacted my son and then my son began talking with this person from Simm Associates. My son said he was going to contact Sallie Mae and talk to them directly since they were the ones holding his loans and he had not personally received any collection notice directly from them. The representative from Simm Associates became agitated with my son and said there was no point in calling Sallie Mae since their customer service representatives don't know how to handle these sorts of issues. So my son said fine, but he wanted a Sallie Mae representative on the phone with him while he talked to this Simm Associates representative at the same time. The Simm Assoc. rep said he would call my son back the next day and have a liaison from Sallie Mae on the phone with him and all three of them could talk. Meanwhile, I talked to several people I know, some in the legal profession and they said this whole thing sounded bogus/hokey. So, the next days comes and the Simm Associates doesn't call my son. But, the following day he calls my son and says he is going to schedule the conference call again for the following day. The following day comes around and the guy doesn't call my son. Meanwhile, the Simm Associate has now gone back to calling the executor to the will saying he can send Simm Associates a money order for the balance due on all the loans. The executor tells the guy to take a hike and says he is not sending him squat.

My son contacted Sallie Mae and asked them to send him documentation saying he was in good standing with them and that his account has not gone to collection. He received that letter from Sallie Mae this past weekend. So, if Simm Associates comes knocking again, he will surly send them a copy and tell them to cease and desist calling him any further regarding his Sallie Mae loans.

I hope this helps and if you have any questions, I am more than happy to answer them, if I can. :-)
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby jthornton » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:23 pm

We just received this phone call today. How has those of you who had this happen to you done so far in fighting Simm Associates. They want $15000 by the end of the month. Even though we are current and have not missed a payment. Why punish a kid for having their grandmother die? :?:
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby jthornton » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:32 pm

Are any of you lawyers? My dad is 82 and would die if they took him to court even though he doesn't have it to pay. I called them and they told me their regulator was the FTC (Federal Trade Commissions) so I filed a complaint with them and then called the Consumer Protection agency. I was told that if they threatened any type of legal action, they were violating the law. Has anyone found some business to refinance their loans through as my daughter has no collateral. And I am definitely not co-signing since I am stage 4 cancer patient, they would come after my wife as soon as I died.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby MooseandBear » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:05 pm

I did a lot of research on refinancing my student loans. Currently, the feds only offer consolidation, which uses a weighted average for the interest rate. The only place I've found that allows refinancing of student loans is SoFi. The interest rates they're offering were lower than my prior Grad Plus loans.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chelle1476 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:42 pm

I am currently having the same problem. I am on my 3rd payment of loan modification with Sallie Mae and SIMM called my mother to tell her that they are accelerating the loan. When I log on to my Sallie Mae page everything is current and correct so I don't understand how this 3rd party can be demanding full payment. They didn't even contact me as the loan primary, just my mother since she was the executor of my grandmother's estate. My grandmother died 2 years ago and Sallie Mae has her death certificate and was aware of her death. At no point during my MANY conversations with them did they mention to me that they may accelerate the loan due to her death. Can anyone tell me how their situations ended up? I am curious.

At this point, I am not giving into SIMM's scare tactics and will continue to pay my loan on time as arranged with Sallie Mae.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:34 pm

I have recently had the same experience. My husband was the co-signer for my daughter's loan. He passed away in 2010. My daughter has been making regular monthly payments on her Sallie Mae loan for almost five years. I received a letter from SIMM this month demanding payment on the balance of the loan. My daughter called Sallie Mae and they told her that her account is in good standing and that they turn over all accounts to SIMM when the co-signer has died. They told her to continue making her monthly payments. My daughter asked them to send a letter to SIMM stating that the account is in good standing but they said "we don't do that."
The estate has been closed for quite awhile now so I sent them a certified letter with the documentation. I think I will probably call an attorney next for advice in case SIMM continues to harass me. I am not really sure what is going on and the legalities involved. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:11 am

You know, I am thinking that Sallie Mae somehow got too big for its britches.

Use the advocacy resources here to counter their aggressive collection tactics (and make no mistake, SIMM is simply a hired gun):

http://www.studentloanborrowerassistanc ... t-answers/

Be sure to get your state attorney general involved.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:20 pm

Oh, they are definitely in the same viper pit together. I'm just trying to figure out their game plan. SIMM demanding payment and Sallie Mae saying, oh no, your account is fine and in good standing. It seems to me that if the exec. of the estate was frightened into paying off the loan, Sallie Mae would lose all those years of outrageous interest they charge.
Maybe this is just their way of showing complete contempt for their reliable customers.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby dm200 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:16 pm

DaveS wrote:Legally the decision to accelerate has to be made in good faith. The legal basis is that in every contract is an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. This is often the theory advanced in lender liability cases. So the fact the person you talked to might have been having a bad day, is not the last word on this issue. The fact the loan is not in default is a good indication that any decision to accelerate payment is not a good faith decision. Frankly I don't think anything is going to happen as long as payments remain current.

But if you want to vent, find out who regulates the servicer, and call or look at their web page and see what kind of complaint mechanism exists. Usually if you look at SIMM associates web page it will say who regulates them. For example if it says FDIC insured, it is FDIC. Dave


I am very familiar with credit union consumer (not student) loans, and it is "standard" (or at least very common) in such consumer loans that the death of any obligated party put the loan in "default". The death of a cosigner may greatly increase the risk of such student loans to the lender.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby donall » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:49 pm

SIMM Associates is a collection agency contractor for Sallie Mae. Probably death of co-signer triggers a death acceleration clause. According to this site:
https://www.salliemae.com/landing/terms/partnersosl/
"You can apply to release your cosigner after you graduate and make 12 consecutive on-time principal and interest payments." "To qualify, borrower must be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, and meet the underwriting requirements when the release request is processed."
I think I would pursue that option, as there are quite a few complains about SIMM Associates, and dealing with them sounds like a hassel.

SIMM Associates indicates they are have been recognized with awards including the Sallie Mae Financial Services People's Choice Award. And according to their website, are now eligible to bid to become the collection agency for the IRS.

I've also had to add, that if a parent or relative has cosigned your student loan, please release them as soon as you can.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:18 pm

Sallie Mae continues to gain recognition as a poor friend to the student loan borrower.

See: http://askheatherjarvis.com/blog/sallie ... nt-options The article here lists a Huffington Post article.

However, the main thrust is to caution borrowers that they need to remain on top of their repayment options, since SM is not providing appropriate education and/or making it difficult to obtain these other options.

Ask Heather is a good tool (among and with others) to use. The site provides links.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby frugaltype » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:36 pm

This all just reeks(sp?) of crookedness.

Since Sallie Mae used to be a governmental organization, even though it is no longer, I would also call your senator's office and speak to their staff member in charge of constituent problems.

It sounds like a nice topic for a New York Times article as well. I often see those prod the government into action within a day or two.
Last edited by frugaltype on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:46 pm

You know, SM has so many sweet heart deals, it makes me wonder, too.

They took over UPromise, and then UPromise took over the NYS 529 plan ....

I dunno.

I agree with you about the publicity, but I am not savvy on those contacts.

I know that the state and local politicians should hear from any stakeholder, as well as Elizabeth Warren.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby MDfive21 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:23 pm

go above the sallie mae front line CSRs and write a detailed letter to..

Sallie Mae
Office of the Customer Advocate
P. O. Box 4200
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18773-4200

they will immediately call you to talk about your case when they receive the letter, so be sure to put your current phone number in the letter and be ready to answer when they call. it is very difficult to reach the advocates if you call them. for obvious reasons they are very busy.

i'm not sure they can do anything since SIMM is the servicer, but these are knowledgeable CSRs who can give direct answers and make changes if need be.

best of luck!
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby curmudgeon » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:13 pm

I find this to be a very interesting thread, and a reminder of the hazards of co-signing. It seems at the very least that this is a situation where this scenario should have been made very clear up front to the borrowers (unfortunately, the more documentation requirements you make, the more they get buried in tons of legalese and the protections become almost useless). This is an issue which would not have occurred to me (and makes me thankful we were able to avoid the student loan situation).

I think there might be a difference between being "in default", and "due and payable on co-signers death".

If you look at it from the standpoint of the lender, they made a loan which was secured by the presumably substantial assets of the co-signer. On the death of the co-signer, the executor of the estate wants to remove that security by distributing the estate to the heirs. This makes the loan much less secure. From a logical point of view (I have no understanding of the specific law involved), it would seem that the estate should retain sufficient assets to cover it's guarantee until the loan is paid. Alternately, the estate could pay off the loan, and the student borrower could repay the estate. It's certainly also possible to contend that the death of a co-signer is inherent in the risks of the loan, but in that case, the loan costs would presumably be increased to effectively insure the life of the co-signer.

Since most of these loans get securitized and sold to investors, I suspect the servicer may be only doing what they are obligated to do by the terms of their contract to preserve the value of those securities. As someone else mentioned, this does bring out the importance of making the effort to release student loan co-signers as soon as possible.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:54 pm

:!: :!: :!:
"Since most of these loans get securitized and sold to investors, I suspect the servicer may be only doing what they are obligated to do by the terms of their contract to preserve the value of those securities."
:!: :!: :!:

The ultimate responsibility still climbs back up to SM, although the quest for profits by SIMM in their own contract with SM may qualify them to get that coveted IRS contract.

That SM would be pressured by securitizing loans of varying levels of risk should make us think of the "tranches" of iffy mortgage loans that gave rise to the housing collapse.

If we are to properly value education, we need to right size access to it, matching levels of cost with levels of academic benefit, and with the resultant risks carried forwards by students who have to figure out how to repay their loans.

When I was in college, you could afford to be a hippie. I traveled each summer, all summer. I went to a NYC school that had a no tuition policy if you could get in, and I got in via the back door by attending first the community college. I graduated with zero debt. That is no longer possible.

I took on some debt for graduate school. In order to get a mortgage the bank insisted that my wife and I pay off our student loans, which we were able to do from savings. Another year or two and our debt ratios would have been acceptable without this. Nobody was slicing and dicing the loans, and we didn't have to deal with some anonymous office of the consumer advocate to get it all done.

What has changed :?:

:moneybag :moneybag :moneybag




:greedy
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:41 pm

It will be interesting to see what I hear back from SIMM.
I just wish that Sallie Mae had been upfront with us when they were notified of my husband's death. They never made any attempt to collect during the probate period. Why now, a couple of years later? I wish they would be upfront now but they keep insisting that there is no problem with the account.
If SIMM insists that I am legally obliged to pay I will seek the advice of an attorney. If he says I am legally obliged then I will pay out of my retirement funds. I want to do the right thing and if my daughter (God forbid) ever lost her job, died or became disabled I would certainly pay off the loan. But as long as she is making regular monthly payments- and she has been for five years- I would rather not have to pay off the loan.
I will keep this forum informed as to the outcome of this whole sorry mess.
Meanwhile I strongly advise anyone reading this forum to avoid Sallie Mae or any other student loans if at all possible and never, ever co-sign a loan. There are horror stories all over the internet about this very subject.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:21 pm

ceciliam wrote:It will be interesting to see what I hear back from SIMM.
I just wish that Sallie Mae had been upfront with us when they were notified of my husband's death. They never made any attempt to collect during the probate period. Why now, a couple of years later? I wish they would be upfront now but they keep insisting that there is no problem with the account.
If SIMM insists that I am legally obliged to pay I will seek the advice of an attorney. If he says I am legally obliged then I will pay out of my retirement funds. I want to do the right thing and if my daughter (God forbid) ever lost her job, died or became disabled I would certainly pay off the loan. But as long as she is making regular monthly payments- and she has been for five years- I would rather not have to pay off the loan.
I will keep this forum informed as to the outcome of this whole sorry mess.
Meanwhile I strongly advise anyone reading this forum to avoid Sallie Mae or any other student loans if at all possible and never, ever co-sign a loan. There are horror stories all over the internet about this very subject.


Check in with the attorney who handled the estate to ask what happens to the liability. I doubt you would have assumed it. I also figure you should call your state's Attorney General's office and ask what experience they have had with this.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby 2stepsbehind » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:01 am

If they didn't file a claim during probate, then they are likely SOL. Do not pay anything.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby kibbles314 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:16 pm

Hi all.

I am also knee deep with SIMM associates. My father died a year and a half ago and the estate has been closed for months. Just a few weeks ago my mother received a bill saying that the estate owed the full amount of the loan because of his death. I have been paying Sallie Mae on the account continuously for last 2.5 years, so the acceleration makes no sense if it is examined on a full faith basis.

I am also an attorney, though admittedly this is not my area of expertise. I was wondering if everyone on here could update their situations - has SIMMs escalated anything with you or has it remained general harassment only? They mentioned over the phone that they could file to open the estate back up through the probate court but I can't tell if this is a bluff or not. They have already made a few mischaracterizations - for example, at one point they told my mom that it was important for her to pay ASAP since the account was earning interest every day. The part they forgot to mention to her was that I was actually paying this interest every month...

Anyway, there is certainly power in numbers. If they are stupid enough to file something against my mom in probate they are going to open a big can of worms because I will litigate this to my last breath. I believe that the outrage that we all feel - paying large amounts of money to Sallie Mae each month only to have them try this - is something that could gain some traction if we get our collective story to a media outlet or perhaps the right regulatory agency or state Attorney General. This is not right.

My family lives in New York. SIMMS mailed the letter to my mom in Early August.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:57 pm

Kibbles, did you arrive at this forum by searching on SM or SIMM?

It would be interesting to know if the ownership of SIMM is with SM.

You should already be in touch with the NYS Attorney General on this, to become informed on their position.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby kibbles314 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:38 pm

Tom,

I found this forum by a Google search for SIMM ASSOCIATES. As far as I can ascertain, they are separate companies. Here is the website: http://www.simmassociates.com/

I am waiting to hear back from someone at the NYSAG office. I have also reached out to the Office of the Customer Advocate at Sallie Mae.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:47 pm

kibbles314 wrote:Tom,

I found this forum by a Google search for SIMM ASSOCIATES. As far as I can ascertain, they are separate companies. Here is the website: http://www.simmassociates.com/

I am waiting to hear back from someone at the NYSAG office. I have also reached out to the Office of the Customer Advocate at Sallie Mae.


Yes, I've visited their web site. They have high hopes to become collectors for the IRS. I am sure the Internal Revenue Service would just love to have an agent with such practices.

Sallie Mae has done well since they were given their wings from when they were offering student loans on behalf of the government. I think they were closely allied with New York State. I am sure NYS would love to see what their stepchild is now doing.

If Sallie Mae can own UPromise under the radar (and, in New York State, end up hosting the 529 plan with investments in Vanguard funds), then they can take a piece of SIMM.

They should have the same ability to arrive here to monitor what is being said via social media, as you have with Google.

So far as I can see, they well deserve what is being said about them.

Please let us know what the NYS Attorney General's office has to say.

Thanks.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:01 pm

So far I haven't heard back from SIMM since I mailed my documentation of the closed estate. If they threaten to have the estate re-opened I will call their bluff. The estate was very small and by the time I paid funeral expenses, medical bills, paid off his car loan and home equity loan there was not much left. I will also consult an attorney who is knowledgeable in these matters before I do anything.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:23 pm

ceciliam wrote:So far I haven't heard back from SIMM since I mailed my documentation of the closed estate. If they threaten to have the estate re-opened I will call their bluff. The estate was very small and by the time I paid funeral expenses, medical bills, paid off his car loan and home equity loan there was not much left. I will also consult an attorney who is knowledgeable in these matters before I do anything.


You might begin by copying your correspondence thus far to your state's attorney general, asking for assistance and advice.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:44 pm

I am not living in the same state as I was during my husband's death and the period of probate. I assume that I should contact the attorney general of the state where probate took place. Simm is threatening me with the law of the state I live in now under the "community property" statute.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:42 pm

ceciliam wrote:I am not living in the same state as I was during my husband's death and the period of probate. I assume that I should contact the attorney general of the state where probate took place. Simm is threatening me with the law of the state I live in now under the "community property" statute.


My opinion on all this (that is, my opinion, I am not a lawyer or an insurance agent), is that this is a very abusive practice, much like what the banks used to do when they would call your employer when your credit card bill was past due.

Recently, a relative (who had listed me on an auto lease) went through a long period of unemployment. He had a practice of letting his payment go late, catching up when a check would come in, etc. He had to move to a cheaper apartment. Apparently the move caused the lessor's agents to get pretty aggressive on collection, and my brother and a sister began to get calls when he was late. They threatened that they would have to take the car back. He became re-employed full time, permanent (having tried to hack together part time jobs). He caught up. I found this to be abusive, once they called the second and third relative.

I find this practice to be similarly abusive.

I would cover your bases, and write to the attorney general in each of the two states that apply. For each letter, I would copy the loan advocate at Sallie Mae I see mentioned in this thread, as well as any contact at SIMM. Be polite, include copies of threatening correspondence, refuse to speak on the phone to SIMM but instead ask that they send letters, etc, and wait to see what kind of feathers get ruffled at and by the Attornies General.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby kibbles314 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:31 pm

Hi All,

I'd like to report that I have resolved my issues with SIMMS/ Sallie Mae. What it finally took was filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. https://help.consumerfinance.gov/app/studentloan/ask

I hope everyone who sees this uses this resource.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:46 pm

It has been a month since I sent SIMM the documentation of the closed estate and so far have heard nothing from them. If I do hear from them that they still insist on payment then will certainly file a complaint using the info that kibbles posted.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:53 pm

ceciliam wrote:It has been a month since I sent SIMM the documentation of the closed estate and so far have heard nothing from them. If I do hear from them that they still insist on payment then will certainly file a complaint using the info that kibbles posted.


Hi. I think your information may help the Consumer Finance Bureau identify these abusive practices as more widespread, unless you feel it can further stir up the can of worms to do so.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:09 pm

see post below please for my situation in a nut shell
Last edited by chlora on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:12 pm

kibbles314 wrote:Hi All,

I'd like to report that I have resolved my issues with SIMMS/ Sallie Mae. What it finally took was filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. https://help.consumerfinance.gov/app/studentloan/ask

I hope everyone who sees this uses this resource.



I am currently in the same situation. Can someone please let me know if there is anything else I can do?!

18 months ago my grandfather (and cosigner) died. We sent his death certificate into Sallie Mae. This week my grandmother received a call from SIMM Associates threatening to go after my grandfather's estate. When I called they told me I needed to take a loan out to pay for my current loans or they would go after my grandfathers estate. At first I was scared and was trying to be compliant. I became more suspicious when I called Sallie Mae and they said my loans were in good standing. I asked for a copy of my promissory note to be faxed. They said they would fax it in 3-4 hours. After 3-4 hours and no fax , I called again. I spent 2 hours on the phone with a Sallie Mae employee before he finally put me on the phone with a manager (as I demanded for 2 hours). The manager finally told me SIMM could not go after me because I had proven that I am able to pay for my loan since my grandfathers death. My loan is not in default or delinquent. He gave me his employee number. He said he would fax my note- still haven't received any promissory note 3 days later.

I then called SIMM and repeated what he told me. they got super nasty with me saying "don't worry miss we will go after your grandfathers assets if you do not pay the remaining balance". They have not sent any documents to me or my grandmother in the mail. They keep saying they have my promissory note, but won't let me see a copy.

It's so strange because my account is normal when I log on to pay and every time I call Sallie Mae says there is no issue.

I have contacted the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (as kibbles314 suggested). How long did you have to wait for an answer from them kibbles? I feel so desperate for an answer. I also plan on contacting the Attorney General of NYS- I have all my paperwork. I have also sent Sallie Mae Advocates a letter explaining the situation. Is there anything else I can do? My grandmother is still living in NY. I have since moved to SC, but when I took the loan out I was in NY.

My grandma is 82 and very upset by the threats. It breaks my heart. I don't want to take a loan out to pay a loan. Especially, because I will not get a better interest rate! However, I can't have them sending her letters and calling with threats
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:57 pm

chlora wrote:
kibbles314 wrote:Hi All,

I'd like to report that I have resolved my issues with SIMMS/ Sallie Mae. What it finally took was filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. https://help.consumerfinance.gov/app/studentloan/ask

I hope everyone who sees this uses this resource.



I am currently in the same situation. Can someone please let me know if there is anything else I can do?!

18 months ago my grandfather (and cosigner) died. We sent his death certificate into Sallie Mae. This week my grandmother received a call from SIMM Associates threatening to go after my grandfather's estate. When I called they told me I needed to take a loan out to pay for my current loans or they would go after my grandfathers estate. At first I was scared and was trying to be compliant. I became more suspicious when I called Sallie Mae and they said my loans were in good standing. I asked for a copy of my promissory note to be faxed. They said they would fax it in 3-4 hours. After 3-4 hours and no fax , I called again. I spent 2 hours on the phone with a Sallie Mae employee before he finally put me on the phone with a manager (as I demanded for 2 hours). The manager finally told me SIMM could not go after me because I had proven that I am able to pay for my loan since my grandfathers death. My loan is not in default or delinquent. He gave me his employee number. He said he would fax my note- still haven't received any promissory note 3 days later.

I then called SIMM and repeated what he told me. they got super nasty with me saying "don't worry miss we will go after your grandfathers assets if you do not pay the remaining balance". They have not sent any documents to me or my grandmother in the mail. They keep saying they have my promissory note, but won't let me see a copy.

It's so strange because my account is normal when I log on to pay and every time I call Sallie Mae says there is no issue.

I have contacted the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (as kibbles314 suggested). How long did you have to wait for an answer from them kibbles? I feel so desperate for an answer. I also plan on contacting the Attorney General of NYS- I have all my paperwork. I have also sent Sallie Mae Advocates a letter explaining the situation. Is there anything else I can do? My grandmother is still living in NY. I have since moved to SC, but when I took the loan out I was in NY.

My grandma is 82 and very upset by the threats. It breaks my heart. I don't want to take a loan out to pay a loan. Especially, because I will not get a better interest rate! However, I can't have them sending her letters and calling with threats


Chlora, unfortunately, the CFPB is one of the agencies that is likely to be affected by the government shutdown. Folks are beginning to understand how this is trickling down into every day lives.

In case there is someone manning the line, though, why not try the Chat mode they have on their home page, and ask when you can expect a reply.

Can you tell us how you did contact them?

Do go ahead and contact your NYS AG. I would also contact your NYS senator from where you resided when you borrowed, as well as the NYS assemblyman.

Let your grandmother know you have found others who have successfully dealt with the same aggressive and inappropriate tactics. You can promise her to continue to make all appropriate payments, and that you will do everything that you can to make sure that she is not bothered. If there was a lawyer who helped with your grandfather's estate, she can indicated to the callers that they can speak with the attorney that represents your grandfather's estate.

I am unsure how much help Sallie Mae will be, but they should know that they are not making friends here. Please keep us in the loop.

Same with their bill collectors (SIMM).
Best, Tom
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:31 pm

tom0153 wrote:
chlora wrote:
kibbles314 wrote:Hi All,

I'd like to report that I have resolved my issues with SIMMS/ Sallie Mae. What it finally took was filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. https://help.consumerfinance.gov/app/studentloan/ask

I hope everyone who sees this uses this resource.



I am currently in the same situation. Can someone please let me know if there is anything else I can do?!

18 months ago my grandfather (and cosigner) died. We sent his death certificate into Sallie Mae. This week my grandmother received a call from SIMM Associates threatening to go after my grandfather's estate. When I called they told me I needed to take a loan out to pay for my current loans or they would go after my grandfathers estate. At first I was scared and was trying to be compliant. I became more suspicious when I called Sallie Mae and they said my loans were in good standing. I asked for a copy of my promissory note to be faxed. They said they would fax it in 3-4 hours. After 3-4 hours and no fax , I called again. I spent 2 hours on the phone with a Sallie Mae employee before he finally put me on the phone with a manager (as I demanded for 2 hours). The manager finally told me SIMM could not go after me because I had proven that I am able to pay for my loan since my grandfathers death. My loan is not in default or delinquent. He gave me his employee number. He said he would fax my note- still haven't received any promissory note 3 days later.

I then called SIMM and repeated what he told me. they got super nasty with me saying "don't worry miss we will go after your grandfathers assets if you do not pay the remaining balance". They have not sent any documents to me or my grandmother in the mail. They keep saying they have my promissory note, but won't let me see a copy.

It's so strange because my account is normal when I log on to pay and every time I call Sallie Mae says there is no issue.

I have contacted the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (as kibbles314 suggested). How long did you have to wait for an answer from them kibbles? I feel so desperate for an answer. I also plan on contacting the Attorney General of NYS- I have all my paperwork. I have also sent Sallie Mae Advocates a letter explaining the situation. Is there anything else I can do? My grandmother is still living in NY. I have since moved to SC, but when I took the loan out I was in NY.

My grandma is 82 and very upset by the threats. It breaks my heart. I don't want to take a loan out to pay a loan. Especially, because I will not get a better interest rate! However, I can't have them sending her letters and calling with threats


Chlora, unfortunately, the CFPB is one of the agencies that is likely to be affected by the government shutdown. Folks are beginning to understand how this is trickling down into every day lives.

In case there is someone manning the line, though, why not try the Chat mode they have on their home page, and ask when you can expect a reply.

Can you tell us how you did contact them?

Do go ahead and contact your NYS AG. I would also contact your NYS senator from where you resided when you borrowed, as well as the NYS assemblyman.

Let your grandmother know you have found others who have successfully dealt with the same aggressive and inappropriate tactics. You can promise her to continue to make all appropriate payments, and that you will do everything that you can to make sure that she is not bothered. If there was a lawyer who helped with your grandfather's estate, she can indicated to the callers that they can speak with the attorney that represents your grandfather's estate.

I am unsure how much help Sallie Mae will be, but they should know that they are not making friends here. Please keep us in the loop.

Same with their bill collectors (SIMM).



Thanks for the quick reply Tom. I sent the CFPB by submitting a form online https://help.consumerfinance.gov/app/studentloan/ask

I got an email that said they would respond within 14 days. I just wanted to see how quickly kibbles received a response. At this point I am losing sleep over it :(

I am working on my NYS AG. I will do some research this weekend about contacting the senator and assemblyman. They haven't called my grandma for a few days luckily. I wish I knew how much time I had. SIMM won't give me any dates or any info on how they plan to proceed. I just stopped answering their calls because it is stressing me out.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:44 pm

I think that you should take their phone calls, but I think you should read them a script:

"I am in touch with the CFPB, they have taken my information. I am in touch with the NYS Attorney General, and I am forwarding to them my information.

I demand that you stop making these frequent and harassing telephone calls. You are instructed to write to me. Thank you."

Then you ask for the name and identifying information of the person that is calling. You write it down, you thank them, then hang up.

That should get you a couple of weeks worth of peace (smile).

If you Google New York State Assembly, you can put in a zip code to get the name and office number. Ask for their help. Same with the NYS Senate.

You can also be in touch with your Federal folks, but they are likely besides themselves right now, and their staff cut to barebones.

Don't lose sleep over it, this stuff comes under the heading of "Games People Play."
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:48 am

tom0153 wrote:I think that you should take their phone calls, but I think you should read them a script:

"I am in touch with the CFPB, they have taken my information. I am in touch with the NYS Attorney General, and I am forwarding to them my information.

I demand that you stop making these frequent and harassing telephone calls. You are instructed to write to me. Thank you."

Then you ask for the name and identifying information of the person that is calling. You write it down, you thank them, then hang up.

That should get you a couple of weeks worth of peace (smile).

If you Google New York State Assembly, you can put in a zip code to get the name and office number. Ask for their help. Same with the NYS Senate.

You can also be in touch with your Federal folks, but they are likely besides themselves right now, and their staff cut to barebones.

Don't lose sleep over it, this stuff comes under the heading of "Games People Play."


Thank you so much! I am going to try everything I can. Hopefully, someone can help me
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:43 pm

I know for other types of collectors, one can send a "cease and desist" snail mail letter to get them to stop calling your phone number and only communicate through writing. Perhaps this will also work with SIMM. Here's a quick summary: http://credit.about.com/od/debtcollecti ... ectors.htm
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:20 pm

tom0153 wrote:I think that you should take their phone calls, but I think you should read them a script:
"I am in touch with the CFPB, they have taken my information. I am in touch with the NYS Attorney General, and I am forwarding to them my information.
I demand that you stop making these frequent and harassing telephone calls. You are instructed to write to me. Thank you."
Then you ask for the name and identifying information of the person that is calling. You write it down, you thank them, then hang up.
That should get you a couple of weeks worth of peace (smile).
If you Google New York State Assembly, you can put in a zip code to get the name and office number. Ask for their help. Same with the NYS Senate.
You can also be in touch with your Federal folks, but they are likely besides themselves right now, and their staff cut to barebones.
Don't lose sleep over it, this stuff comes under the heading of "Games People Play."


Tom, Thanks for your advice. I contacted the NYS Assembly over the weekend. They called me today and took some info. They said they would try to help me out. Please keep your fingers crossed! Haven't heard from SIMM in a while, thankfully!
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:31 pm

I'm happy to hear you are getting some muscle to help.

Don't forget the consumer board, too, to ask them to follow up when the logjam clears.

Sallie Mae is telling folks that their accounts are clear, but turning accounts like yours over for collection. That isn't fair.

SIMM seems to have high hopes to be a collection arm for the Internal Revenue Service. I do hope that the Federal government would not consider doing business with such an agency.

Continued good luck.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:09 pm

What is the consumer board?

So far I have sent a letter to Sallie Mae Adovates, Sent letter to NYS Attorney General, spoke with NYS Assembly, and filed a complaint via CFPB. Which by the way I would have never know to do if I did not stumble upon this forum :happy I am so gratful for all of your help/concern.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:03 pm

Yes, I was referring to your filing to the CFPB. Someone in this thread mentioned that they finally got some mileages once that agency had intervened.

Somebody else also mentioned that they found this place for the same reason.

It is a really good place to learn about personal finance and investing. It has a very good Wiki for the basics, and its resource and book listing is very good for building your own plan that can take shape over your career.

Enjoy your stay.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby kibbles314 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:32 pm

Chlora,

I sent you a private message with details but in short I filed my complaint with the Consumer Protection Bureau on Sept. 11 and got a favorable response on Sept. 27th. My guess is that the government shutdown caused the agency to shut down as a non-essential service, which may be causing the delay with your complaint.

I hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you. Please don't stress too much.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby MDfive21 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:37 pm

this hasn't been mentioned yet, but for those of you who are having problems, read up on the FCRA and FDCPA. especially the FDCPA subsections on validation of debts and communication in connection with debt collection.

the subsection on civil liability can come in handy if you feel the need to beat them up a little. it's possible they have already racked up violations. you can collect from them if so.
Last edited by MDfive21 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby ceciliam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:03 pm

I just wanted to update on my situation. I sent documentation to SIMM about five weeks ago showing that my DH's estate was closed almost two years ago and informing them that Sallie Mae assured my daughter that the account is current and in good standing.
Yesterday SIMM called another daughter's home claiming they were attorneys and needed to talk to me about the estate of DH. They don't have my phone # and believe me I have purposely kept it that way. Our correspondence has been by snail mail.
My daughter who has the loan filed a complaint with the consumer board website that kibbles provided and called Sallie Mae for the umpteenth time.

The information that Sallie Mae gave her might be very helpful to those of you whose co-signer's estate has been probated and closed.
She was told that on reception of the death certificate DH's name was removed from the loan. My daughter's name is the only one on the loan now. If for some reason she should become delinquent then they can only go after her. There is no longer such an entity as "the estate of DH" as it has been dispersed and closed. SIMM has no cause to be contacting me and the Sallie Mae rep says that an email would be sent to SIMM that the account is in good standing and to cease all contact with me. Last time my daughter talked to Sallie Mae they refused to send a notice to SIMM and said "we don't do that." Now they claim that they will. We shall see. At least I know now that I don't have to respond to SIMM if they should try to contact me.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:05 pm

ceciliam wrote:I just wanted to update on my situation. I sent documentation to SIMM about five weeks ago showing that my DH's estate was closed almost two years ago and informing them that Sallie Mae assured my daughter that the account is current and in good standing.
Yesterday SIMM called another daughter's home claiming they were attorneys and needed to talk to me about the estate of DH. They don't have my phone # and believe me I have purposely kept it that way. Our correspondence has been by snail mail.
My daughter who has the loan filed a complaint with the consumer board website that kibbles provided and called Sallie Mae for the umpteenth time.

The information that Sallie Mae gave her might be very helpful to those of you whose co-signer's estate has been probated and closed.
She was told that on reception of the death certificate DH's name was removed from the loan. My daughter's name is the only one on the loan now. If for some reason she should become delinquent then they can only go after her. There is no longer such an entity as "the estate of DH" as it has been dispersed and closed. SIMM has no cause to be contacting me and the Sallie Mae rep says that an email would be sent to SIMM that the account is in good standing and to cease all contact with me. Last time my daughter talked to Sallie Mae they refused to send a notice to SIMM and said "we don't do that." Now they claim that they will. We shall see. At least I know now that I don't have to respond to SIMM if they should try to contact me.


Cecilia, thank you for the valuable update. I am happy that a complaint was filed. Sallie Mae should be ashamed; they should end their affiliation with SIMM.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby chlora » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:21 pm

I received this message from the CFPB today:

"SIMM Associates, Inc. is a third party collection agency. SIMM does not purchase or own debt; it collects on accounts referred to it by debt owners.
It was founded and incorporated in 1991 in Newark, Delaware. From its inception, SIMM has been dedicated to providing highly effective collection services to its clients, assuring always that the consumer is dealt with in a professional and appropriate manner.
Ms. K has filed this complaint regarding Simm Associates and its collection efforts regarding her Sallie Mae (SLM) student loans. She asserts that she has spoken with SLM and that they advised her that Simm had no role in the collection of the account.
SLM referred Ms. K’s student loan accounts to Simm Associates on September 25, 2013 for collection of the balance due on the loans through the estate of deceased borrower. When Simm commenced its collection efforts, it was advised by Ms. K that she had spoken with SLM at the time of her grandfather’s death and been advised that she would be able to manage the loans individually. She also advised that her grandmother has certain health issues that rendered her unable to address these matters.
In response to Ms. K’s assertions, Simm contacted its client SLM and advised of her concerns. SLM has reversed its decision to place the account with Simm for collection and has recalled the accounts. Simm regrets any concern that its collection efforts caused to Ms. K or her family. "


Hopefully, I don't have to worry about hearing from them again.
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Re: Sallie Mae loan servicer / death of co-signer

Postby tom0153 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:29 pm

That's GREAT news!

Was this via e-mail?

You might ask CFPB if they can provide the same info on paper.

I would also send a copy of the communication via certified mail, return receipt, to SLM, and ask them to confirm the same.

So much for SLM saying that they didn't place the account in collection!

Sallie Mae should be one loan resource that should not be recommended by colleges and universities, and hopefully, others doing some research will be able to find out more about what are lousy business practices, on their part (SLM) and SIMM.

I wonder if SIMM is a subsidiary or was a subsidiary of Sallie Mae? Just wondering.

Congrats on your hard work! I am sure your grandmother is relieved, and impressed with your ability to take care of this kind of nonsense!
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