Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

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Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby McCharley » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:47 pm

My Dad is an architect, still working in his seventies. He says most architects do their best work late in life. He says he will never retire, although he may become more selective about the work he takes on.

I have seen this with a lot of artists, not so much in business.

For him this has really simplified retirement planning! :D

I love the idea of a profession you loved so much that you never wanted to stop doing it. Any of you Bogleheads there? What do you do?
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby EmergDoc » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:52 pm

I have yet to find a job I enjoy more than my hobbies. Maybe one of these days....
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby mhc » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:59 pm

There are times that I love my job, but I would prefer to travel the world with my wife once the kids are out of the house. I think it would be great to go live places for multiple months at a time. I look forward to retiring in by 50's if possible.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Greenie » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:16 am

I know several acquaintances they say they are never going to retire. It's not because they love their work but they have no exit plan. Health forces everyone to retire at some point. It's great your Dad loves his work.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby jsl11 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:02 am

I would suggest that no one should plan on never retiring, even if that is what they wish to do. Sometimes, what we want does not happen. You may get laid off at age 60 or 65. Even if you are still able to work, it may be next to impossible to find a job at that age. Another possibility is that your health may not permit you to continue working, even though you may live for another 20 or 30 years. These are things we do not choose, but they happen anyway. When you get to retirement age, you may elect to keep working, but you will not know in advance if that choice will be available.

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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby englishgirl » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:47 am

I have a relative who won't retire. He's 90. And really, he should have retired 5 years ago, if not 10. In the last 2 years especially, he has been forgetting words while speaking, forgetting what he's doing, and getting around takes forever because he's so immobile. He should not be working. But he's been stubbornly going in to the office (part time) because he always said he'd never retire. He's also mentioned to me on one of the many occasions when I have rudely asked when he's going to retire that he doesn't feel like he would have anything to do at home, so he'd just be waiting for death - this is because of the mobility issues, but he has a large library of books to read, a new electric wheelchair to go outside on, and plenty of friends who visit.

I think at this point, some of his refusal is just because he always said he'd never retire, so he's trying to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Although at least lately he has been saying that he's thinking about retiring. But his legacy at work is I think now becoming compromised because of his current issues.

I would urge you to have conversations with your dad where you get him to at least come up with some scenarios where he would be OK retiring. Maybe reaching 90. Maybe not being able to walk to the bathroom in less than 10 minutes. Something physical rather than mental so he wouldn't have to admit that it's harder to function professionally as well as before. At least if he agrees to those things now, and you keep reinforcing/discussing retirement, it would give him an "out" should he ever get to that point. Exit plans are good.

As for me, meh. I plan to work until I"m 70. That seems good enough.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby trudy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:48 am

McCharley wrote:My Dad is an architect, still working in his seventies. He says most architects do their best work late in life. He says he will never retire, although he may become more selective about the work he takes on.

I have seen this with a lot of artists, not so much in business.

For him this has really simplified retirement planning! :D

I love the idea of a profession you loved so much that you never wanted to stop doing it. Any of you Bogleheads there? What do you do?


i would have loved to have not retired. But I was a software engineer (two MIT degrees) and got laid off in the dot com collapse, and the job market for women in their fifties in a technical field is zero. I got told to my face more than once that I was "too old" or "would not fit in."
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Jay69 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:54 am

I think many Architects and Engineers die at the drafting table. I happen to work for a Mechanical engineer who is knocking on the 80's door. This guy is in great shape, still downhill skis etc. No signs of slowing yet, a pair of hearing aids would be helpful!
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby bottomfisher » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:05 am

I work in Medicine. I originally told myself I would never retire. I am rethinking this perspective. I am a long way from potential retirement. But perhaps I'll work part-time or take an academic position that allows me to slow down a bit. But I enjoy working so I'll at least find something else to do in my later years.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby HomerJ » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:07 am

McCharley wrote:I love the idea of a profession you loved so much that you never wanted to stop doing it.


Sometimes you don't get a choice.

I mostly love my job... But I don't love it every day. I don't always love getting up early to go to my job... I don't always love going to work on a dreary snow day, or a beautiful summer day.

If I could work 3 days a week (at 60% pay of course), I'd probably work forever. Or if I could work 5 days a week, but get 12 weeks of vacation a year, I'd probably work forever.

But since none of that is guarenteed, I'm going to try get myself financially independent by 50-55, so then all options are open to me.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Scooter57 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:01 pm

My dad left his salaried job at 70 but pursued a consulting career testifying in court cases into his 90s.

Since I've worked for myself since 1987, I hope to keep a hand in until a similar age. It isn't about the money for me, but about keeping life meaningful. I saw too many of my parents' generation dull out and deteriorate as soon as they gave up doing anything but cruising and hanging around the house. I'm already retirement age now, but ironically my own business has been more profitable over the past few years than ever before, raising my medicare rate. But I love the fact that I still feel like what I do has value for others.

For those in the IT field, it's relatively easy to take your skills and learn the simple tools you need to serve markets like small business web support or self-publishing. I have turned down a lot of that kind of business over the years since I prefer doing something else but the work is out there, along with tons of people who will pay a lot for very simple computet-based services.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby McCharley » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:07 am

My friend Crazy Mike points out that "you have to do something"

Maybe he is not crazy after all...
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby rixer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:47 am

I have no intentions of not retiring.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby MathWizard » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:29 pm

trudy wrote:
McCharley wrote:My Dad is an architect, still working in his seventies. He says most architects do their best work late in life. He says he will never retire, although he may become more selective about the work he takes on.

I have seen this with a lot of artists, not so much in business.

For him this has really simplified retirement planning! :D

I love the idea of a profession you loved so much that you never wanted to stop doing it. Any of you Bogleheads there? What do you do?


i would have loved to have not retired. But I was a software engineer (two MIT degrees) and got laid off in the dot com collapse, and the job market for women in their fifties in a technical field is zero. I got told to my face more than once that I was "too old" or "would not fit in."


That was an absolute waste of experienced talent.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Middle » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:53 pm

I'm 49, so too early to tell but I can hardly imagine continuing at my current job anywhere past where I have to. The problem is, even though my rough estimations put me roughly on target for retirement at 65, it would mean being able to continue living at my current fairly frugal lifestyle and not the retirement dream of traveling around the world and having a vacation home. I guess I'll have to appreciate the small things. But back to the question, I would consider doing some part time work if there was something of interest to me.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby likegarden » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:01 pm

In my company retirees were given the option to continue working part-time. I retired with 62 because I was stressed out. After half a year I felt great, lost 20 pounds, went back to work part-time, half time and some years only 300 hrs until 69. One fellow worked into the 80s. I always liked to work. Now at 73 I have a hobby and have a grandson living with us, so we are kept very busy.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:54 pm

We have a number of gentlemen in our office who work seasonally. They get summers off (and collect unemployment because the job ends in April/May every year and starts up around Sept/Oct). Most of them are in their 70's and 80's. One gentleman I work with is around 87 or 88 years old. He just had to move into assisted living because he had a fall at his home and his son and he made the determination that he shouldn't live alone in his own home anymore. He told me he's adjusting to life in assisted living, but he's still working in my office and loves it. He likes that his meals are cooked for him now and he doesn't have to shovel, clean, etc.

He told the facility where he lives that breakfast wasn't being served early enough since he goes to work, so they made arrangements to get him breakfast at 7 a.m. and even give him a bag lunch to take to the office for lunch. He goes out to work and the other residents ask him where he's going. He says, "I'm going out" and they say "out??" with a far off look in their eyes as if they're discovering there's a whole world out there that they're not getting to see.

Incidentally, he retired from another job and then came to this job in his 60's! Since he's worked there so long, he is entitled to a pension, vacation and sick time (in addition to the summers off). Can't beat that!
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby HomerJ » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:41 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:We have a number of gentlemen in our office who work seasonally. They get summers off (and collect unemployment because the job ends in April/May every year and starts up around Sept/Oct). Most of them are in their 70's and 80's. One gentleman I work with is around 87 or 88 years old. He just had to move into assisted living because he had a fall at his home and his son and he made the determination that he shouldn't live alone in his own home anymore. He told me he's adjusting to life in assisted living, but he's still working in my office and loves it. He likes that his meals are cooked for him now and he doesn't have to shovel, clean, etc.

He told the facility where he lives that breakfast wasn't being served early enough since he goes to work, so they made arrangements to get him breakfast at 7 a.m. and even give him a bag lunch to take to the office for lunch. He goes out to work and the other residents ask him where he's going. He says, "I'm going out" and they say "out??" with a far off look in their eyes as if they're discovering there's a whole world out there that they're not getting to see.

Incidentally, he retired from another job and then came to this job in his 60's! Since he's worked there so long, he is entitled to a pension, vacation and sick time (in addition to the summers off). Can't beat that!


What job do they do where they can take so much time off and still contribute at 87? I wish part-time work like this was more common in the U.S.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby BBL » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:05 am

I'll probably be done with my current field by the end of 2015. What I'll do from there is hard to say. If I find something I really enjoy that happens to provide an income then I won't scoff at it.

I'm keeping almost all options on the table. I like the 'unknown' of the future - the uncertainty keeps it interesting - I wouldn't want to know how it unfolds until it does. I may die with my boots on or retire in 2015, or anything in between. We'll see.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby sesq » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:08 am

My father retired at 58, got bored and opened up an estate planning practice. He is in his late 70s now and swears he will never retire and he wants to live forever. I wish him luck. Personally, I am shooting for 55 and out.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby madbrain » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:10 pm

trudy,

trudy wrote:i would have loved to have not retired. But I was a software engineer (two MIT degrees) and got laid off in the dot com collapse, and the job market for women in their fifties in a technical field is zero. I got told to my face more than once that I was "too old" or "would not fit in."


This is very sad to hear. I am also a software engineer, but male here. But I skipped the degrees - I'm self-taught, and started working full time out of high school.
I don't see too many engineers in their 50s in the hallways of the big companies I have worked at (and the one I currently do). There are a few. Not many older women software engineers, though one sits in the office adjacent to mine.

I am afraid most of the older sw engineers end up doing something else, ie. management of some kind. I have no interest in that. And so my retirement plan includes retiring at 50 currently. If I am able to do it longer than that, I may consider it, but I don't think that decision will be up to me.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Old Guy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:48 am

I'm trying to retire but between my wife, who grew up poor and is afraid of the loss of income, and my employer, who is trying to bribe me into staying, I may not be able to leave just yet. I really do want to go, the work is depressing me and I'm 70, but my wife will not retire until the end of 2014 so I'm not sure what I would do at home; no hobbies; no friends; long cold winters keeping you indoors.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby VictoriaF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:56 am

I think there is a critical point when people should retire if they are to retire at all. I know individuals who have missed that point and became too old (psychologically, irrespective of their physiological age) to contemplate retirement. They became too used to the rigid structure of the working week, they have not developed leisure interests, their most meaningful social interactions became restricted to the coworkers, their sense of identity became too reliant on their job status.

Is it necessarily bad? Probably not--if one has a reasonable assurance of continuing working till he drops and does not anticipate death-bed regrets.

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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby caroljm36 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:00 am

I used to think I couldn't wait to retire, and had a long list of things to do: biking, skiing, volunteer work, politics (but didn't care much about travel anymore)...then I sort of jumped the gun and did everything I had wanted to do while still working and got my fill of fun. It seems I need a workday schedule to build my life around or I just sit and vegetate.

Now, at 64 my hours have been cut in half, I'm going on COBRA, but I am being given a chance to learn a new skill and I'm loving it so far. Working in IT I am surrounded by some rather elderly programmers and feel right at home. I'm hoping they let me continue and hire me back full time and I will be happy to work into my 70s if my gray matter holds up.

I think now my desire to quit working stemmed from being stuck in a marketing job I really couldn't stand, and having my quickly decaying legal skills called upon so irregularly that I'd stress out way too much trying not to screw up.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:44 am

HomerJ wrote:What job do they do where they can take so much time off and still contribute at 87? I wish part-time work like this was more common in the U.S.


State Gov. job full time seasonal doing LIHEAP (low income heating energy assistance program). This is a benefit of working for the government--they can't discriminate against age, sex, religion, disability, etc. I know that is supposed to apply in the private industry too but....(I won't get into that).

Have to take and pass a test (civil service), pass interview and get trained to understand and administer policy to determine financial (and other) eligibility and authorize/deny benefits accordingly.

Differs from state to state I'm sure and even office to office. I think some other offices in the state don't hire but rather reassign work internally (if possible) to handle the increased work load of this program over the winter.

I believe the job title is listed as "energy worker" on our state civil service commission website (where one applies for the job and schedules where and when to take the test).
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby wshang » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:08 pm

That is the problem isn't it . . . .
-Lacking in imagination, unable to formulate a direction other than one dictated by a hierarchical structure like work
-Lacking in structure, unable to structure ones life to get through each day
-Lacking in direction, stuck in a productivity paradigm where values are defined externally

In a perfect world, we would be artists, musicians or creativists of all sorts, fulfilled in meeting our own definition of satisfaction and goals. I suppose that is why these type of people can work until the body fails them. We are historically so lucky to be able to contemplate such questions when less than one generation before retirement was rare, had children for protection in old age and one went to work because it was necessary.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby newbeginning » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:40 am

I work therefore I am, I am therefore I work.

I cant imagine retiring but that day may come. More likely I will simply find other windmills to tilt...

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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby bayview » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:17 am

I could keep working pretty much forever in my field, but it's keyboard-intensive, and I already have signs of arthritis in both hands, so I figure I'll pretty much have to retire eventually. My plan is to retire from my federal gummint career in another 3 1/2 years and then work for a contractor at home, gradually tapering my hours as my hands crap out. (This assumes that the income works out OK, of course. Otherwise, I'll be munching aspirin for several extra years. :D )

I actually enjoy working, but I'm getting pretty much over putting on the nice clothes and shlepping in to the office every day to do what I could do more quickly and efficiently at home. My superiors are convinced that they need me on site M-F, which is ridiculous. But there you are.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby LH » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:43 am

englishgirl wrote:I have a relative who won't retire. He's 90. And really, he should have retired 5 years ago, if not 10. In the last 2 years especially, he has been forgetting words while speaking, forgetting what he's doing, and getting around takes forever because he's so immobile. He should not be working. But he's been stubbornly going in to the office (part time) because he always said he'd never retire. He's also mentioned to me on one of the many occasions when I have rudely asked when he's going to retire that he doesn't feel like he would have anything to do at home, so he'd just be waiting for death - this is because of the mobility issues, but he has a large library of books to read, a new electric wheelchair to go outside on, and plenty of friends who visit.

I think at this point, some of his refusal is just because he always said he'd never retire, so he's trying to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Although at least lately he has been saying that he's thinking about retiring. But his legacy at work is I think now becoming compromised because of his current issues.

I would urge you to have conversations with your dad where you get him to at least come up with some scenarios where he would be OK retiring. Maybe reaching 90. Maybe not being able to walk to the bathroom in less than 10 minutes. Something physical rather than mental so he wouldn't have to admit that it's harder to function professionally as well as before. At least if he agrees to those things now, and you keep reinforcing/discussing retirement, it would give him an "out" should he ever get to that point. Exit plans are good.

As for me, meh. I plan to work until I"m 70. That seems good enough.


what kinda work he do? own the company?
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby stemikger » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:51 am

McCharley wrote:My Dad is an architect, still working in his seventies. He says most architects do their best work late in life. He says he will never retire, although he may become more selective about the work he takes on.

I have seen this with a lot of artists, not so much in business.

For him this has really simplified retirement planning! :D

I love the idea of a profession you loved so much that you never wanted to stop doing it. Any of you Bogleheads there? What do you do?


If working at a job you love is what gives your life meaning and passion then why retire. However, most people (myself included) don't love what they do and can't wait to quit the rat race. I envy your dad. Warren Buffett has said several times he does not like to travel and plans on working until he dies. He has said in numerous interrviews that his work is his art and every day he adds another brush stroke.

Bill Gates often tells a funny story when he and has wife convinced Warren to take a train ride cross country and Warren had no interest in some of the most beautiful sites in the world. He said he is happiest at his home on Omaha reading his newspapers.

The bottomline is no one can define happiness to you as an individual and you have to decide that for yourself. A perfect day for me is knowing I have the day to myself and don't need to do anything I don't want to.
Stay the Course!
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Allan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:08 am

I have no plans to retire, really don't want to. I enjoy what I do immensely so why quit doing something I like so much. I started my home building company at age 23, I just turned 62, and can easily see myself doing this into my 70's (health permitting). It is mentally and somewhat physically challenging, very rewarding, and occasionally fun. Having my own company means I can take off when I want to, and technology tools allows me not to be tied to the office. I can also be outside as much as I want to and interact with many people on a daily basis. I have more than enough assets to retire, so it isn't about the money, but continuing to work means I don't have to worry about some of the financial issues I see others struggling with. Count me as someone who plans not to retire, and enjoys work, although it really doesn't seem like work.

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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby smiley » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:45 am

i love what i do. probably will never fully retire if i even live to retirement age (both parents passed in early 60s).

locum tenens seems like a good option for those wanting to slow down in medical practice, but still want to dabble a little, and see/live in parts of the country they've always wanted to.

any MD bogleheads here who do this/have considered this? care to share your experience?

:happy
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby johnep » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:57 am

I think you have to define what you mean by retirement. If it is stop working for a paycheck, I am already there. However, I volunteer about 16 hours a work doing management consulting and IT work for a non profit. I am still involved in a couple of professional organizations and have done several major home remodeling projects since my retirement 2 years ago. I also plan to do more volunteer work with my church. Also, I am thinking about starting a small business. I enjoy travel, golf and other leisure activities but they are not things I want to do all the time. I need some form of work to keep me engaged and energized. A life of self indulgence does not appeal to me at all. I suspect that is true of many who have already retired.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby Dulocracy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:42 pm

I absolutely love what I do for a living. While I want to be able to retire, I do not plan on actually retiring. I thoroughly enjoy my work, and I would continue to do it even if I became extremely wealthy. That being said, I want to get the the point of security that I know that I can retire as soon as possible.
I'm not a financial professional. Post is info only & not legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists with reader. Scrutinize my ideas as if you spoke with a guy at a bar. I may be wrong.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby wshang » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:55 pm

Dulocracy wrote:I absolutely love what I do for a living. While I want to be able to retire, I do not plan on actually retiring. I thoroughly enjoy my work, and I would continue to do it even if I became extremely wealthy. That being said, I want to get the the point of security that I know that I can retire as soon as possible.

I probably felt this way when I was your age. When BH's reach an age when they have the choice of retiring or working, I wonder if they feel differently.

I have more than enough to retire. Although I am only working one a day a week, lately when I get sh*t at work, working feels more like charity work for which there is an unnecessary headache component. This lead me to be less tolerant of putting up with cr*p than when I needed the money. Retiring doesn't mean you stop working, its not just nor for money. Hobbies, art, volunteering and self-indulgent activities are just not recognized by a capitalist society as worthy of remuneration. It becomes a question about what YOU value after you hit your number.
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Re: Any of you Bogleheads NOT going to retire?

Postby afan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:20 pm

I could retire now. I hope to work as long as health and employability permit. For now, I think retiring in another 15 years would have me quitting at an age typical for people in my field.
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